Mini 839 -- Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[jammer]

Vote: Vi

We have no room for a village idiot.

[jammer]

1. How many games have you played to completion on this site?

1

2. Do you play Mafia on other sites? If so, what is different about those

sites vs. here?
I play on epicmafia, chatbased. PR/vanilla and mafia/town ratio is generally higher.

3. Do you consider yourself an experienced player?

Not with forum mafia, still got a load to learn.

4. Which other players in this game have you played with in the last six months?

Vi, Porkens and Col. c.

5. Do you prefer to be Town, scum, or third party? Why?

I like both.
Town becouse you got to hunt for scum instead pretending to do so.
Scum becouse you have more information to use, and manipulating town can be fun.
Have to play more forum games to get a real prefered allignment.

6. Who is your favorite fictional character, and why?

Not really a favorite.

7. How many scum do you think are in this game?

3 or 4, 25% rules seems often applied on site, so 3 is more likely.

8. Why are you filling this survey out?

Way to gain more discussion and get out of RVS.

9. Do you think this survey will be useful in finding scum?

Not directly, no.

10. Am I more likely to be Town or scum in creating this survey?

Would see it doing by eather allignment. It seems pro-town, so I would say town.

11. Is English your first language?

No.

12. What scumtell have you found to be most effective?

Has not lynch scum yet as town(or any finished town games for that matter), so I might have to find a effective one. On Epicmafia, the ¨why me?¨ tell is rather effective.

[jammer]

@Porkens, how is this different from the questions I asked in newb 803? It was not a survey, but it where questions not with the game itself related. Like how did you discover mafia, or importance of the RVS stage. It gets a game out of RVS and I would see it as a good thing happening to a game.

Why is the survey of Vi suspicious. And the questions I asked at that time not? Is it being a survey a big thing? (I was scum, but at that time you did not suspect me at all)

[jammer]

Jammer, you're acting like Frank Dekkard from Blade Runner here, which could be awesome; your memory is a little selective, but you still play it cool. The fact that you'd reference a play you made, as scum, to accuse me of double standards gives me an early indication that you are, in fact, one of the 3 scum in this game.

How does my allignment in that game change the fact you used double standards?

Let me ask you something; do you think that, if you had been town in that newbie game, your survey would have been helpful in finding scum? Naturally, and grounds for conversation is valid, but this survey business is flawed, as I've pointed out before, because people don't realize it's not about the answers, and they focus on the questions.

I would be doing that survey regardless of allignment. It was helpfull in getting out of random voting. It is good to start some discussion. But I agree you should loose focus on it if discussion is attracting.

And of course I suspected you. I played along with your game, but I knew it was you all along. My life-long relationship with the English language has left me with a remarkably accurate sense of perception about such things.

[jammer]

Jammers interfere with the transmission of information. More information is good for town, ergo interfering with it is anti-town. QED.

I interfere with the transmission of information? What do you mean?

Well, that's the thing. If Vi has done what I think he's done, these questions have been structured carefully so that only Vi really knows how to interpret them. So we give him a tonne of information, and he gives nothing back.

It's all a conspiracy... Can't you see? Can't you see?! *Grabs tin foil*

Higher psychologie, I knew it. Er.., eh?
What do you think about Porkens opinion this being a smokescreen?

[jammer]

1. You draw a similarity between your play in that Newb game with Vi's play here.
2. You say I didn't suspect you for that play in that game.
3. You were scum.
4. Wouldn't you expect that I'd learn from my mistake?

1. There is a clear difference between my play there and Vi play here.(if that is your point)
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Uh?

Unvote: Vi; Vote afatchic

[jammer]

@Y.C, as I am not looking at it as anti-town. I am not cooperating with a policy lynch, and very doubtful you get enough followers for doing it.
Your stance on policy lynching the one that started the survey, is indeed anti-town. You focus your attention towards Vi the survey maker. And are not actively trying to hunt for scum. Would a simple way to remove most of this aftersurvey talk, not simply to remove you from the game?

Why the focus on the survey, and lynching the one that started it?
Any nasty experiences with surveys?

You vote someone, with as reason you do not like his play. And not becouse you think he is mafia. You start to talk about side-tracking, but who is the one side-tracking from finding scum?


@Col. C, When I looked at the playerlist, that was the moment I noticed Afatchic is in the game. For some reason noone noticed his absense in all of this. And I would like it if he started talking.

[jammer]

I would say, YC as most scummy.

[jammer]

I can not see why not give him the time. It can not hurt town, only help.

Also for purely selfish reasons I do not want to end this instantly, as another one is hitting deadline. And 2 games in night at the same time is rather lame, been there.

Also, 48 hours from now would be perfect, as a V/LA of 3 days is gonna hit by then.

@RC, V/LA, from wednesday till friday.

Noted.

[jammer]

@TMJ, if it was not said before, your vote was quite blantently sheeping.
It is hypocrite to vote someone else to get them participate if you do little yourself. Besides I think there are others who did less.
As you keep your vote on YC now he is being wagoned, what is the main reason you keep this vote?

Unvote: afatchic; Vote: James Denholm

[jammer]

*I hate cops*

Porkens why are you so focused(tunneling) on YC?
You disregard other player actions and are completely focused on getting YC lynched.

[jammer]

jammer, why are you voting according to a set policy?

Just playing around a little with the votes. Testing something out a little.

@jammer
You seem disinterested in the YC wagon. What do you think of YC's actions?

Then I made a wrong impression, I think YC actions are worthy of being voted. The lacking of YC currently, gets me to look at other players.

Well, after relooking at YC.

1) YC, goes against Viś survey like it is the worst possible. YC was not the only one. But his reaction was certainly more aggresive towards Vi. YC did also not react strongly when the survey was mentioned the first time and just random voted. But became aggresive towards Vi when others outed their distrust against the survey.

2) Calling for mod interference and for a policy lynch on Vi for utterly strange reasons.
No words..

3) Immediately after Porkens mentions his fake-railing, he drops the attack on Vi.
Support went, attack on Vi went.

With 1) and 3), I´d love to ask YC(if he would not be replaced), how to respond how it worked with the survey-fight combinated with the support.

I liked to hear more from YC, including the analysis, but that is not going to happen.
The coming replacement is rather annoying becouse (s)he can not explain any of YC actions.


And with Tjoe, his actions could be becouse he is newish(or something), as Cruciare said. I want to hear more from him.

lol...there are still many to convinced

I don´t think you anwsered this one. What did you mean with this line?

@RC, a change in plans, you can scrap the V/LA.
Also, prodd James D, if you´ll like

Noted.

[jammer]

In your opinion, how should we treat the replacement? (Should we immediately look for more votes? Should we take votes off? Should we look for new targets? etc.)

We can not ignore how YC played, but we got a replacement who is not likely to anwser for YC.
And imo, you should always look around for new targets.

But as you said later, I agree. I highly doubt pops will change my mind about YC.

That said,

Unvote: James.Denholm; Vote: popsofctown

Generally, I've got a fair scum reading on Y.C, now popsofctown. Incredibly strong tunnelling, willing to lynch a townie on policy, the whole mod involvement thing, accusing votes of being pushed, and now dropping out of the game and letting someone else take over. That said, my gut says no, that perhaps he was just excitable. It will be interesting to see which is right.

Do you think YC is scum or not?

And with Tjoe, his actions could be becouse he is newish(or something), as Cruciare said.

Where did Cruciare say that?

As for TMJ, coming from a guy who called Vi "dumb head" in his first (?) post, all I'm getting is a null read. I've seen players like him before, and in most cases (when they're not pretending), that kind of behaviour was not indicative of their alignment. Questioning them also proved largely useless because their answers didn't make any more sense than their general behaviour. 82 did raise some eyebrows however, so I'll watch for his future commentaries.

@J.D - I wouldn't say I'm a great scum player; the last game I completed was my first scum win and I only got that because a Townie gave up in LyLo.

I was nominated for a Scummy for this game... but it wasn't thirded. But I got accepted into BaM for it, so I'll take that ^.^

It seems you did something right after all.

[jammer]

jammer, are you comfortable with pops at L-1? Since you kinda put him there.

yep

And... I'm not seeing anything where Cruciare called TMJ a newb, especially since TMJ explicitly said he's not one. Even so, how would newbiness affect your judgment here?

I gues I misunderstood Cruciare... But ok, I see actions I would write down towards newish.(altrough he does not call himself new, altrough new to the site) And, I see new players more likely to drop scumtells as any allignment.

His first post after pops comes in is a vote that puts pops at L-1. If Y.C was so suspicious that pops couldn't possibly change your mind, then why weren't you voting him to begin with? Why put pops at L-1 when he's barely had a chance to talk, much less claim his role or do some decent scum-hunting?

Call me careless, but I do not really care about if a vote is L-1 or the first vote on someone. I am not about to hammer someone out of the blue but I would easy put any other one on a wagon. You are accusing me for a speedlynch?

I looked at YC in detail a day before I voted him, the whole accusion of you on me is a delayed vote of YC..

Post 4 - Post 90 were August 29-31, the first three days of the game. Post 91 - Post 134 were September 1 - September 3. We're down to less than 15 posts per RL day and only a few of those are moving the game forward.

Posts/day are fine imo. I don´t know what the average is. But I don´t think this game is awfully slow or something.

I don't want to explain too much about jammer at the moment. There are certain connections I think we should look more into with jammer when we know an alignment or two. I prefer not to give away too much now. It's better to present arguments against someone in bulk (That's why I didn't mention anything about jammer's second post until Cruciare's post saying he didn't like jammer's posts from the third onwards). Also, if jammer is scum, there's no reason to tell him what to avoid doing.

I am sure I will keep doing it.

I'm not vanilla town, i'm doctor. Day 1 doctor death again.
I give up.

That is pretty much the obvious claim scum would make, imo.
But, for the moment.

unvote
Vote: afatchic

(If I missed anything, I went partly fast through this, am going to read better in the morning)

[jammer]

jammer, why vote the fat chick?

Well you and Porkens already voted him for a reason. I was basically sheeping your votes. The pressure vote was better then voting noone at all.

Despite all that i just said, i would much rather see a lynch on either Cruciare or imaginality today. A lot of what they have been saying hasn't been siting right with me, however I am not exactly sure how to put a case together on them. This is generally my problem, i am not an english or logic major, so i generally get bandwagoned for miscommunication due to the fact that i can rarely get my point across the way i intend for it to sound.

What is so hard about quoting anything that did not seem right with you. You can put a

case

on me, but can find nothing at all on them?

I think, the scum would be far too careful to actually attack someone when he just claimed PR. Jammer wasn't at the time in Newbie 803, and that was pretty much the point, when he lost a perfect game. Giving up, and going in other (single) direction seems more like a scum behavior, mostly because it's much safer.

You just contradicted yourself there, you´ve seen before scum would attack a claimed PR.

Also, I´d like J.D to anwser some of pops questions.
And a few new questions.
JD, why is the survey a scumtell?
Who is scum?

Prodd: J.D.

Done

Unvote: afatchic
Vote: J.D.

col. 203 is too good, have been thinking the same thing.

The players who don't have the balls to lynch me after i claimed PR are likely scums.

You are streching this idea far. I do not think unvoting you makes anyone more likely scum.

@imaginality, if pops claimed vanilla towny, would you like him lynched in that case?

@DeathRowKitty, you did not want to put a case on me becouse there was already another lynch target? Why not going after somoene you suspect at the moment you see it? If my behaviour changes after you pointed out my scummy behaviour, would that not be another tell for scum trying to get back on

being

towny track?

Offtopic,

4)Vi, Porkens. Imaginality, Jammer and RedCoyote on EpicMafia

Who are you on epicmafia?

Also I get, Fatal error: Out of memory errors, anyone else with this issue?

[jammer]

if by lynching pops may bring me closer to day 2 and get more information..that's the price that I have to take

One of the reasons you vote pops, is that you are not getting lynched?

(I don't buy claimed role - I thought some mod also doing modkill if player doing roleclaim?)

I think Role

name

,in the sense a role could have got a seperate name added due to flavor, that is retricted to be claimed becouse it could take advantage of the role PM.

Not adding much value towards Porkens thing(if I think I know what it is). Seen to less, to stop it from being bare coincidence.

@RC, I am going to ask a few stupid questions, be prepared.

If someone got the most votes at deadline(but not L-0), if noone else got that number of votes, shall he live or die?

He would live. A player must have a majority of votes (7 today) in order to be lynched, anything less is a no lynch.

Timezone and exact time of deadline?

It may not

exactly

be Noon, but it will be fairly close. CST = Central Standard Time.

[jammer]

jammer

Do you always throw your vote around so much?

Nope, does the voting bother you?

Pops- Can you please make a nice detailed post about each player and your thoughts on them, as well as who you would like to see lynched in the upcoming days and why... Consider this like your last will and testament since a few people have already said they will hammer you at deadline.

So note: You´re not voting him, see no reason to not trust his doc claim. But doesn´t seem bothered at all with him being voted. Even poking him to make a testament before he dies.

As for the pops vs. TMJ business. It seems those are becoming the lynch targets, I am fine with lynching any of those two. Thinking about it, I think TMJ is the best lynch.

Unvote: Sotty
Vote: TMJ

[jammer]

Cut by jammer: Nice to see that you don't have many thoughts beyond the bare minimum

Good to know you appreciate my play.

The TMJ vs. pops business. Let me elaborate.

Pops is acting scummy however you turn it. But he is a claimed doc, if real he might very well be handy. Altough not a comfirmable claim.
If his claim is fake, that is likely going to bite him in the ass(as porkens said) at some point.


TMJ is well, TMJ. Looking at it, I doubt you could draw a solid conclusion out of him later. Is it part of his playing style or is it real scummy behaviour. If we don´t lynch him today, I think we are likely to lynch him at some point later in the game.

I am pretty much voting TMJ over pops becouse of pops doc claim, yes.

[jammer]

I did say that I would be willing to move my vote as necessary, but Pops being so close to lynch (CLOSER THAN TMJ, HINT HINT) makes me not really want to, and I think others may feel the same. If this psychological lockdown persists until deadline, it would be quite bad. I think the only person who's seriously against TMJ is Pops himself, am I wrong? To the rest of you who are voting TMJ becase you are against lynching a possible doctor Day 1, please realise that if he really is the doctor he would most probably die tonight anyway. PLEASE DO NOT WASTE A DAY ON A COMPLETE GAMBLE LYNCH THAT DOESN'T TELL US VERY MUCH (I.E. TMJ).

I am fully ready to move my vote on pops to get him lynched. I do prefer the one that is not a claimed doctor.

I am not solely voting TMJ becouse pops is doc. TMJ got scummy behaviour, at worst we lose a unhelpful and unreadable pro-town player with lynching TMJ. Who would always be a ¨What do we do with him?¨ if kept alive. Might be a playing style he looks so scummy, but lynching TMJ will likely continue being a gamble if that is the case.

I´d lynch pops and TMJ both at this instant if I could.

[jammer]

So with that said, i have no reason to believe he is not a doc. So yeah, i am playing with some certainty that he is the doc. I think it would be an absolute terrible play to lynch a claimed PR today.

I'm gonna reread and comment on a few other things i wanted to comment on last night, but was too tired to do so.

Pops- Can you please make a nice detailed post about each player and your thoughts on them, as well as who you would like to see lynched in the upcoming days and why... Consider this like your last will and testament since a few people have already said they will hammer you at deadline.

Ok, afatchic. You state you're not supporting pops wagon. Why didn't you do anything to stop a pops lynch?
You just leaned back, "lynching pops is bad!", "pops make your testomony". To me it seemed you did not really mind the wagon on the the player you looked at "with some certainty that he is the doc".

You took a stand on pops, but did't do anything with it.

I'm surprised to see that DRK isn't voting anyone, especially after that last post.

I'll be around another hour or two and I figured I'd wait to vote to see if anyone tried to make too strong a push for either candidate without strong reason (trying to save a scumbuddy). I would've voted earlier if I'd realized TMJ had 4 votes.

Vote: pops

This seem pretty off, now TMJ flipped scum, and kitty was pushing hard on pops a few posts before it.

@imaginality, any particulair reason TMJ lost your attention yesterday?


Let me see.

Vote: afatchic

~Also, I completely disagree with tunneling being something town does more likely then scum.

[jammer]

@Vi, why are you so interested in the setup design?

[jammer]

A survivor doesn't know the amount of mafia. Doubtful he would claim with a certain amount of players left to yell "let vote NL!". I mean, what would you do with a claim like that at any time?

I would not count a survivor town, but not scum as well. A survivor might be NK'd at some point, or just (accidentally) help to get scum lynched. A survivor is neutral, not much help for town or mafia much.

Also Porkens, taking third parties as scum, in MtG you mislynched once, and that lynch made town lose.

And what do we learn from this? We might have more or less scum players. Speculating about the ammount is not going to help finding scum.

More clear said.

OMG UR SETUP SPECULATING

[jammer]

Firstly, I'm sorry RC,

I request replacement

. Slowly getting bored with mafia overall, and less time left for this in the near future. Better to replace out now then accidentelly flake out of the game later.

Sorry to hear that, jammer. I will start looking for a replacement.

I'll anwser questions about my play. As I doubt my replacer is able to anwser those.
If there are any urgent questions a replacer is not likely to anwser, ask now.

@jammer:

Just playing around a little with the votes. Testing something out a little.

Please explain properly what you were testing, and what was the result.

Properly, I was randomly voting someone without much reason to test a response. The reason itself, the lurkervote should be obvious.

As for the result. afatchic pretty much didn't mind/ignored the vote(neutral). While James responded to the vote, and felt to ask why he was voted(somewhat scummy).

Unvote: afatchic; Vote: James Denholm

Say what? Just randomly vote <b>me why<b/> don't you.

Also I did not really mind the vote from TMJ that much at first. Looked at it, meh ok. It took some time before someone mentioned the (scummy) vote from TMJ. And then I found the latter reasoning TMJ gave worse then just sheeping from Vis reasoning, "getting Y.C. to talk more".

You're misunderstanding, I voted TMJ for, 1) Not being doc, 2) Not going to be a help as town 3) unreadable (with a nuture doing scummy things).
And no, I did not feel a strong feeling to get pushing for a TMJ lynch over pops.