could you explain why?
Open 160 Bird 7P (GAME!) - before 823
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Charnel Mafia Scum
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I guess I can wait that long.hohum wrote:Charnel: it's in exceedingly poor taste to try and tear down a wagon. I like baltar's vote and I understand the reasoning.
I know you're trying to be helpful but it would actually be better if you simply hopped on the wagon or waited until he has a chance to respond. The reasons for the votes will become clear to you after he wakes up.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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o, this is the experienced guy. Sorry to be relatively new, sir. Now it would be nice if you didn't try to gain any superiority, and just played the game.BloodCovenent wrote:
would you like it spoon fed to you?Charnel wrote:vote VP Baltar
could you explain why?one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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why only post this now? and if answers are so easy, why didn't you give them? Since this is just a single sentence, that you hope removes some pressure. It actually doesn't add a lot to the game, being a oneliner.BloodCovenent wrote:Wait... you seriously believe that I am pushing for a no lynch?
unvote vote muzzz
way too often talking about random-vote-theory.
and while he is mostly attacking BC(asked already multiple times for him to answer, and one attack (inconsistency) , he has still his random vote around.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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point two is debated by Yabba.muzzz wrote:Main points against Yabba:
- Not participating in the RVS.
- Pretending people can't be scummy from the get-go.
Contrary to popular belief, you can occasionally make scum slip by engaging them in theory debates.
and the last I disagree with you about. It is also an easy place for scum to hide in. -> possibly active lurking.
@yabba. I missed a big portion of page two, that I reread later. That gave me a bit of an odd read on the game. The reason why I still needed to know the case from Muzzz.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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well, it could be.muzzz wrote:@Charnel: do I look like I need something to hide in?
lets say you were a mason-vig, then you don't want to give too much away about the game. Since we disagree about the use of theory discussion as an aid for finding scum.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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that, and adding pressure on BC, without following it with your vote, while you are more serious then on Yabba.muzzz wrote:@Charnel: let me rephrase that question. Do you think that my play, on the whole, looks like that of someone trying to hide behind theory fluff?one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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@BC: I must say that I don't take your posting serious if you are in such a state.
@yabba: I havent seen that, I only have seen him in isolation, and there are a few post adding pressure on BC, and one argument against him (an inconsistency).
in any way, a lot more then "he didn't random vote"one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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I doubt you have heard from Octupis, who hasn't given any opinion on the game.hohum wrote:I don't need to slow down. There isn't 5 mysterious people in this game that we haven't heard from yet. We've heard from EVERYONE at this point.
and don't tunnel, but you have a point with the defence of your attack that yabba knew more. It is scummy. Yabba moved up my list.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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with answering two reactions on his random vote, and a random question about voting to you, IIRC.hohum wrote:
Pay attention. He posted last night.Charnel wrote:I doubt you have heard from Octupis, who hasn't given any opinion on the game.
those are not opinions.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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I didn't like his sarcastic defense. That is a scummy way to defend it, and means that hohum is more likely right in his assumption that yabba is scum.VP Baltar wrote:
Charnel, explain this for me. What quote of yabba's indicated he has inside knowledge and explain how that quote means he has inside knowledge.Charnel wrote:you have a point with the defence of your attack that yabba knew more.
and on that "playing the newby card": I didn't. I reacted on a post where I felt treated like a newby, and felt the need to react on that "experienced" guy. The reason why I also told that I didn't like him trying to look superior. It is far from playing the newby card.
and hohum: it won't help you a bit. You haven't played with me yet, and the only reason that I play under this account is because I wanted to try to improve my town game, without getting meta problems.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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Hohum, you are surprisingly aggressive for a person who could have looked at all the games VP and I posted together in: I am also known as Mykonian.
great opening. You pick the two players mostly noticed by all in the last page. Now lets see why. You start with me:Octupis wrote:I am suspicious of Charnel and BloodCovenent at the moment.
Didn't even take the trouble to read my reaction on it, doesn't care. I didn't pretend that, and if you read what my reaction is on, you wouldn't have said this: blatantly following VP's attack without reading the defense.Charnel-I would also like to know who you are the alt of. You have been active lurking for most of the game, have been making certain mistakes1which I would not expect from experienced players. The fact you hide behind the guise of a newbie creates suspicion, because if you were town you would not pretend to be a newbie which can hinder the town2. Pretending to be inexperienced and new would make you less of a target because some of your scummy behaviour might just be put down to you being new.Fos Charnel
and I have no idea where you get the gut from to accuse people of lurking:vote Octupishypocrite and follower.
I'd like a why, even if it is on a selfvote, or a no-lynch vote: so I can check it. I don't care what is obvious, I want it to be said. Plus, on page 1, there are far worse questions to make.1Asking for reasons for VP Baltar's vote on BloodCovenent when it was obvious.
What a mess you make here: later you even need to tell us it is a pressure vote, just to be sure we won't attack you for weak reasoning. Can I order a lynch please?I will tentativelyUnvotefor now, although I am suspicious of Charnel, that was a joke vote so I feel it neccesary to remove it now we have left the RVS.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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If you know I'm not a newby, then don't treat me like one! "oh, I pressure him with my vote, now he will tell me everything seeing I am so treathening"Octupis wrote:I realised VP Baltar wanted to pressure Charnel but I had unvoted meaning little pressure would be applied. I revoted Charnel to pressure him thus aiding the town. VP Baltar's post has not altered my opinion on Charnel, I am still as unsure as I was when I unvoted because I only had suspicions. I have revoted, not because VP Baltar's post gave me confidence but I saw that he wanted to pressure Charnel so I used my vote to do so and hopefully get some more information for the town.
get real: you only say it is a pressure vote to actually make clear it is not seriously for a lynch, and therefor it doesn't work.
I see you did a lot of scumhunting[/sarcasm] you actually waited for VP and Hohum to do the job for you.Also, I see you have been using your vote an awful lot to pressure people[/sarcasm]one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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it was the point he was defendingVP Baltar wrote:
I'm more interested in the "inside knowledge" part however, because I don't see where that is coming from and you agreed with it. Cite the quote for me and point out how it implies that yabba has inside knowledge.Charnel wrote:I didn't like his sarcastic defense. That is a scummy way to defend it, and means that hohum is more likely right in his assumption that yabba is scum.
and the fact that I actually attack the person treating me like a newby, and say I don't like it doesn't make this point null?
While I agree that acting superior based on time on site is annoying and is fair to be called out, what bothered me was you saying:Charnel wrote:It is far from playing the newby card.
You directly state that you're new on the site, which is playing the noob card to me. I don't like it.Sorry to be relatively new, sir.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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Since when do I agree with VP's points against me?Octupis wrote:what do you think about VP Baltar's post 115 because you call me a follower but you don't actually dispute what I am agreeing with.
and why was I active lurking: because I didn't like your lurking, and Muzzz his theory discussion? Because I gave my opinions on players? this is an empty, and easy made accusation. You accuse me of doing nothing, while I don't see what you have done yourself.Also maybe you should read my post. I called you out on active lurking yet I concede I was lurking through the first few pages as I had a funeral to attend on thursday and was not up to much posting on friday. I make a distinction between active lurking and lurking, as I said you were active lurking and I was lurking that doesn't make me a hypocrite because the two things are different.
you are scumhunting? where? you are only following VP and Hohum, and bringing nothing new. You actually told you were just doing that.I am doing a damn more scumhunting than you are. It is widely agreed that you are just offering colour commentary which is not really helpful, yet when you get a little bit of pressure you attack me for agreeing for VP, but you don't have a thing to say about him.
Charnel wrote:
What a mess you make here: later you even need to tell us it is a pressure vote, just to be sure we won't attack you for weak reasoning. Can I order a lynch please?Octupis wrote:I will tentativelyUnvotefor now, although I am suspicious of Charnel, that was a joke vote so I feel it neccesary to remove it now we have left the RVS.
WTH. No way. You actually think that telling the world you vote is for pressure makes that pressure real? No, you are making clear to the world your vote isn't serious. It has nothing to do with pressure.In the second of Charnel's quotes, he basically says that the only reason a vote could be justified is if the voter wanted the target to be lynched. I disagree, pressuring is evidence of this. In the last quote he says that I only said that my vote was to pressure him because otherwise my reasoning would be weak, but in accordance with the above point, if my vote was not for pressuring, which I claimed it was, it would be for to lynch Charnel. The two quotes don't coincide, they contradict each other because Charnel thinks the only reason I should vote for him is if I want him to be lynched and then says that if I claimed that it wasn't, my reasoning would be weak. Which is it Charnel because as I see it, I cannot win, whatever I do, I would be inherently wrong.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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yabbaguy wrote:@BC-120: I see no way VP and Charnel are scumbuddies.
Plus, this suspicion of Octupis hatched a moment ago, while meanwhile, people have been consistently suspicious of you Charnel. This sounds like scum trying to end the Day so that they get their votes wiped away.
consistently? you all needed VP to misread that "newby card" and now you actually debate if it really had the intention to stand up to BC thinking he was superior.
After D1, my thoughts:
hohum >>> obvtown
Baltar >>> town
muzzz >>> leaning town
BC >>> speculating town
Charnel >>> scummy
Octupis >>> tilting scummy
Vote: Charnel
Does this mean you are scum?@BC-120: I see no way VP and Charnel are scumbuddies.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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Octupis, I see what I missed.
I actually tried to prevent this with that "relatively". Guess it didn't workVP Baltar wrote:
You directly state that you're new on the site, which is playing the noob card to me. I don't like it.Sorry to berelativelynew, sir.
on the other hand, why would I have put it there otherwise?one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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If I read your question correctly, then yes, I have problems with that. It is easy for scum to wait and pick the right bandwagon.
and active lurking: yes I disagree. Maybe I am not as aggressive as Hohum, but mainly in questions, I have voiced opinions about muzz and you. I have not commented a lot on the big target, BC. Because that is how I see him.
Muzzz commented a lot on BC, but till recently, he stayed on yabba, because yabba didn't random vote. Why would he wait with going with his stronger suspicion? That was the point against Muzzz then, and since he hasn't done a lot lately, that is still the point.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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I asked you then, and if I remember correctly, you said that the main point was that he had not random voted.muzzz wrote:Aside from the contradiction I pointed out earlier, I don't really mind your suspicion of me. But I do mind you misconstruing my case against Yabba. I make my decisions based on what I find suspicious, and not just on the suspicions you happen to agree with.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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it seems to be getting my hobby.
FoS VP baltarbtw. You have an odd way of being on both great wagons, that both lead to L-1, or almost further, without getting noticed a lot. You "were fine" with the lynch on BC. You misread, or twisted the "newby card point" something that was in context an attack on someone treating me that way. But you didn't vote for that... no, you voted me because I thought yabba scummy for his defence against Hohumthat wasn't serious!
I could totally see a yabba-VP scumpair.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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I waited for a counterclaim. Till that point, I brought the point that I have given continiously about BC: he is a target, and I don't believe in a lynch on him. Call it a defense (yabba/VP)VP Baltar wrote:Actually one thing I notice upon reread was that Charnel never even made direct mention to the doc claim after it was made. Charnel, what were your feelings on it? Did you believe it? Why didn't you address it directly?
one thing weird is, that without a cc, yabba calls be suspect for defending BCwhile not being on the wagon himselfvp/hohum/muzzz did it, IIRC.
Yabba's directing the cop is not town. Not in any way.
@hohum: as a newby, I once undid a uncc'ed copclaim when I replaced. So egruntz could be in the same position as me. In that situation are two things different: I replaced a newby, and he claimed in a very wrong way.
There was little wrong with this claim, and Egruntz did not need to make himself scummy by reclaiming.
therefor, I would like more yabba lynch, he is directing mislynches, while trying not to be too obvious, and staying off wagons. If I have time tomorrow, I make a case on him.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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I did answer.VP Baltar wrote:@Charnel:VP Baltar wrote:Did you believe it? Why didn't you address it directly?
I believe he is town that was made a target. And since I normally don´t expect townies to lie, I would have needed a cc to not believe it.
guess I was wrong there, but for some players this is an accepted play. However, if a new player that doesn´t share these ideas comes in, he might undo it. Otherwise I can´t see why he would do it. I can´t see this coming from scum, and I am way more suspicious of Yabba.
why didn't I address it? because there was incomplete information. I have said multiple times that I thought BC a towny that was made a target, I went even so far to say scum would be on him, and I waited if there was a cc to make a real judgement. Until that, I would talk about something I didn't know everything about.
In any way, a Egruntz lynch here is plain wrong. Lynching me is not a good idea either, although some people still need convincing, but we need to look at those other 4 players.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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No, then we are looking at claims and stuff in stead of really scumhunting.hohum wrote:
If he does flip VT and I'm wrong, then we've simply been sunken by BC's stupidity, and we're likely going to lose this game anyways.VP Baltar wrote:And if he does flip VT?
and if you read that quote about my newby game: I was scum there, rewinding a fakeclaim, but I say I think the situation is different here: there was IMO little need for a gambit like this from scum.
Hohum: there is no option I am going to get you into a lynch of someone else?one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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but since I think you are town, and town needs 4 out of 5 on a lynch, it is a good idea to have you there too. and I really have doubts about BC.hohum wrote:
You don't need my cooperation to lynch someone else. There's 5 other people in this game that you can convince to vote along side of you.charnel wrote: Hohum: there is no option I am going to get you into a lynch of someone else?one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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I am sorry if I understand the question wrong, but I have said quite often that I thought BC a target, and more likely bad town then scum.VP Baltar wrote:
Agreed. Explanation very necessary. I'm ready to hammer pending this response.hohum wrote:Charnel: You seem to have done an about face in that last post regarding your stance on BC. Did post 266 strike a nerve, or what?
guess I was wrong, but still, that was my opinion. Early game (just after RVS) this was less clear, and I did not still know what way he would go, and as you kept asking, I answered in clearer and clearer statements that my feeling that it was a bad lynch.
I don't know how far I am yet in votes, but don't lynch me. I have some time till the guests come, and I have still to give you that promised case.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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not his whole post, but not out of context:yabbaguy, page 2 wrote:Bloodcovenant >>> this could be for a few reasons.
a) he's scum who's trying to detract the town
b) he's misguided town
c) he's stirring up discussion. Mastin selfvotes during RVS consistently for this precise reason.
(I see post 37 now... just as I thought.)
Assuming a) automatically is jumping to conclusions.
Here yabba logically analyses BC's play. He makes three options, first two short, and not really obvious, and the third already with an argument. He is indirectly defending BC, by making one option more likely.
and sarcasm seems to be yabba's way to react on unexpected pressure. He discards the accusation by pretending he doesn't take it seriously.yabbaguy wrote:
I'll confess, I know everything. I can truthfully tell you that there are 2 goons, a cop, a doc who can't save the cop, and 3 townies.Your response indicates tht you have some inside knowledge of the setup.
You were right, I knew it. Kudos.
and seen the sarcastic answer last time, this is a blatant lie. (was his response on Hohum)yabbaguy wrote:I'll ask again, why do you think I should find you "somewhat suspicious"? Also, what do you mean by "inside knowledge" of the setup? I truly don't know what you mean.
not even a vote. He hasn't made one. But still, here he tells the town he has the intention to vote. He waits though. Hesitates is probably the better word.yabbaguy wrote:I feel that yabba is doing this too, and it irritates me.FOS: Bloodcovenent(he's at L-2 already, if I counted correctly. If it's lower, I'll make it a vote.)
This is where I start to believe you're detached from the game on a level that seems scummy. First off, you're springboarding off a comment which made no mention to you, which is bizarrely opportunistic, and secondly, how in the world do you come up with that conclusion? Love me or hate me, saying that I've been coming up with nothing but fluff is completely incorrect.
Where am I just doing color commentary?
In his next post he puts me at L-1... Saying this about BC:
and so he gets his mislynch, and hopes to save his buddy.yabba wrote:@BC-116: I have never used gay as an insult. Ever.
Also, a lot of people have addressed several times that dodging a question is just that, you dodged a question. Maybe you overlooked it, but really, there's no way of knowing that. Fact of the matter, you got a response.
Having a second look, I don't see how scum would be this abrasive. Ironically enough, I'm now inclined to think that BC is towntelling, because usually I would think the scum would try to be a little more on the down-low instead of tripping everyone's wires. He's been a bit useless, but I think he's just weak-town, honestly.
next we get Hohum's almost hammer, and yabba's next post contains:
and he stays on me for a crap reason. He does that so he might save his buddy. However, if that fails, he found BC scummy, so there is nothing wrong with bussing.yabba wrote:@BC-151: You don't even factor in the possibility that hohum's town who just misread the topic. Like you. You missed the Unvote. I almost missed it myself. You're being hypocritical in that hohum could very well have made the same honest mistake you just admitted to.
Change:BloodCovenent >>>speculative towntilting scummy
Still, my vote rests on Charnel because I want to know why he tried to ask for a lynch on someone else when he's under some pressure himself. I think he was in no position to do that. I'd rather have him over BC at present.
and next: a full defense of BC, while 2 posts above this one he found him tilting scummy!yabbaguy wrote:This isn't Survivor: Mafiascum, hohum. If you're voting based on the weakest player or whoever's "doing it wrong", well, you're doing it wrong.
Good night everyone.
After that, he attacks me for placing my vote in the middle of a post.
and this would help scum in this case... Yabba is trying to direct the game so he gets a little advantage for scum.yabbaguy wrote:Charnel's defense of BCgruntz is suspect. The "sorry, try again" statement is irking me.
Seeing as now we *do* have to factor in town stupidity with our claim, my suggestion, lynch Char, investigate gruntz.
and after Egruntz reclaims, yabba finally busses.
please, UNVOTE, and take time to read this!one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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Lylo is too late: you can't be wrong on the Pr's anymore:hohum wrote:Charnel: it isn't time to mass claim. We're not in lylo yet.
now, with one mislynch, we have a few options:
One cop, one doc, one confirmed, one normal towny, and:
A a fakeclaiming scum as doc: lynch both docs for the win
B a fakeclaiming scum as cop: lynch both cops for the win
C a fakeclaiming scum as towny: lynch both townies for the win.
There is no way out for scum anymore.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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then we are right for sure in lylo: whe know who fakeclaimed.hohum wrote:If we're not in lylo, and we have 2 power roles with 1 scum alive, then it's to our advantage to wait for claims. I'd rather not provide fodder for the scum team if we mislynch today.
and it is going to be yabba.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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hohum, different timeszones? and my birthday. I should sleep now, and I am not going to reply yabba's pulled together attack, as a few points are already defended before, a few things are twisted, and some are simply pulled together to look scummy.hohum wrote:I want to hear from Octu. It's up to him whether we claim today or not.
Why are you refusing to cooperate with anyone's questioning at L-1? That's not a productive way to save yourself.
Hohum, want me to claim the game for you? As someone who already claimed, I would like to propose an order of claiming:
yabba, octupis, VP, hohum. Everybody happy, and in the end we have scum for certain. Can you see that hohum? We just get the result from the cop and this game is over.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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Is it my birthday? See before my case.hohum wrote:
I call major bullshit on that:Charnel wrote:
hohum, different timeszones? and my birthday.hohum wrote:I want to hear from Octu. It's up to him whether we claim today or not.
Why are you refusing to cooperate with anyone's questioning at L-1? That's not a productive way to save yourself.
Looks like outright refusal to me.Charnel wrote:unvote first, then we can talk.
and because he told you.
now stop tunneling, and listen to the logical things about massclaim that I say. I can't mess with you there.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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Charnel Mafia Scum
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and still you are wronghohum wrote:
Seriously?Charnel wrote:
guess who the cop is?hohum wrote:I'm really tempted to hammer right now, but Baltar is also pushing for this claim and you can't both be scum.
He isnotthe doc.
I can't even begin to describe the level of seething ominous scum you are for that post.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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Charnel Mafia Scum
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Or scum missed the fact that massclaim could happen.hohum wrote:It's become readily apparent after this game that in this setup, not having a D1 PR claim is critical to the town's success. So critical in fact that a PR claim on D1 should be an automatic lynch.one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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Charnel Mafia Scum
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Charnel Mafia Scum
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Charnel Mafia Scum
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no, VP was very obvious with his first post, and seen earlier, it fitted in his play. I had basically no read at Oct.yabbaguy wrote:That's Charnel thinking Oct was cop, if you ask me.
Mod, does the investigation subject know they're investigated?one would hardly have joy without another's suffering, no?-
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Charnel Mafia Scum
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