Open 160 Bird 7P (GAME!) - before 823

[Octupis]

Vote Charnel

because seven is my lucky number.

[Octupis]

If the player's in your lucky spot, Octupis, why vote for them?

With any luck they will be scum

@muzzz-44: RVS, obviously. Voting for someone in the 7-spot is a, well yes, it is a pointless vote, I'd call it a joke vote.

Your right though, it was a joke vote.

I throw my vote around because it's the only tool that I have. Wagons are the only tool that the town has to effectively coordinate an attack and pressure people. People who like to pick apart quick wagons are simply wrong for doing so and they're doing the town a grave disservice.

Which of these do you find more important, throwing your vote around or aiding bandwagons?

[Octupis]

you found the only two reactions on your post?

and you found a new way to start a theory discussion...

would you please make a next post?

Yes, what is your problem with that? You have not actually wrote anything productive, and then asked if I was going to post again? I am a newbie, but I think this is known as active lurking.

Which of these do you find more important, throwing your vote around or aiding bandwagons?

Glad to see you joined the discussion. It's a very contextual question. There's usually a lot going on in your typical mafia game so sometimes getting information out of people is the priority; however, on the whole pack mentality in this game is a good thing and not a bad thing so I would typically aide a wagon if I have nothing better to do.

I question you because from the game, I guessed you would say bandwagons are more important. Yet when you were on the BloodCovenent wagon you unvoted to vote Yabba. I was just curious.

Aaaaaand I'm already pages behind in this game. Catching up today after work.

I look forward to your post, I would like to hear more from you, as cheeky and hypocritical that sounds

[/game relevance]

[Octupis]

One reason- Octupis. I haven't heard much from him in the way of suspicion lists. By this point, I think most of us have a suspect list, and I'm a little puzzled why his posts have been short, brief, and no real full-blown suspicions indicated. It could be RL issues, for all I know.

A mix of both I guess. I was at a funeral on thursday so I didn't post an awful lot.

I am suspicious of Charnel and BloodCovenent at the moment.

Charnel-I would also like to know who you are the alt of. You have been active lurking for most of the game, have been making certain mistakes

1

which I would not expect from experienced players. The fact you hide behind the guise of a newbie creates suspicion, because if you were town you would not pretend to be a newbie which can hinder the town

2

. Pretending to be inexperienced and new would make you less of a target because some of your scummy behaviour might just be put down to you being new.

Fos Charnel

1

Asking for reasons for VP Baltar's vote on BloodCovenent when it was obvious.

2

Picking apart the wagon at the beginning of the game.

BloodCovenent-The same offence to a certain extent. He posts a lot but alas not much of that is any use either. If you like at the first few posts of BloodCovenent you will notice that they are also void of opinion and are just a bunch of rhetorical questions or seemingly serious votes which later claims are jokes:

• Post 9 (Vote)
  Post 27
  Post 37

When he does post something other than rhetorical questions he makes flase allegations and uses personal attacks:

• Post 70

Notice also how he only ever defends against allegations and is not actively scumhunting. Alas I sympathise with problems in real life as I have suffered from that over the past few days.

I will tentatively

Unvote

for now, although I am suspicious of Charnel, that was a joke vote so I feel it neccesary to remove it now we have left the RVS.

[Octupis]

I will tentatively Unvote for now, although I am suspicious of Charnel, that was a joke vote so I feel it neccesary to remove it now we have left the RVS.

So, you are just going to wait to see which wagon gets steam before you put a vote down? If you are suspicious of Charnel, I don't understand the need to unvote him...particularly if he isn't currently in danger of a lynch.

They were only suspicions. I am not yet sure of who I think is scum.

Regarding your first comment, would you have a problem if a theoretically just waited for a bandwagon?

If you think that your cause of pressuring Charnel would be enhanced by my vote, I am willing to co-operate.

Vote Charnel

[Octupis]

Scummy post - You should not have had to wait for someone to reaffirm your idea, thought, or whatever it was in order for you to keep your vote on him. your vote is your most important tool for the town. Use it frequently to apply pressure.

Vote: Octupis

Did you read what I wrote?

If you think that your cause of pressuring Charnel would be enhanced by my vote, I am willing to co-operate.

Vote Charnel

I realised VP Baltar wanted to pressure Charnel but I had unvoted meaning little pressure would be applied. I revoted Charnel to pressure him thus aiding the town. VP Baltar's post has not altered my opinion on Charnel, I am still as unsure as I was when I unvoted because I only had suspicions. I have revoted, not because VP Baltar's post gave me confidence but I saw that he wanted to pressure Charnel so I used my vote to do so and hopefully get some more information for the town.

Also, I see you have been using your vote an awful lot to pressure people[/sarcasm]

[Octupis]

so you knew that someone wanted to pressure him, and you still unvoted? All the while, you had suspicions on Charnel. But VP didn't put the pressure on until after you had already unvoted. And you didn't Re-vote, until VP votes. Do you see why this is scummy? Could be some scum-team like interactions here.

Is that all correct?

I did not know VP Baltar wanted to pressure Charnel until after I unvoted thus why I revoted.

Didn't even take the trouble to read my reaction on it, doesn't care. I didn't pretend that, and if you read what my reaction is on, you wouldn't have said this: blatantly following VP's attack without reading the defense.

and I have no idea where you get the gut from to accuse people of lurking:

vote Octupis

hypocrite and follower.

I did read your reaction on it. What do you think about VP Baltar's post 115 because you call me a follower but you don't actually dispute what I am agreeing with. So what if I agree with VP Baltar if what he is saying about you is true?


Also maybe you should read my post. I called you out on active lurking yet I concede I was lurking through the first few pages as I had a funeral to attend on thursday and was not up to much posting on friday. I make a distinction between active lurking and lurking, as I said you were active lurking and I was lurking that doesn't make me a hypocrite because the two things are different.

I realised VP Baltar wanted to pressure Charnel but I had unvoted meaning little pressure would be applied. I revoted Charnel to pressure him thus aiding the town. VP Baltar's post has not altered my opinion on Charnel, I am still as unsure as I was when I unvoted because I only had suspicions. I have revoted, not because VP Baltar's post gave me confidence but I saw that he wanted to pressure Charnel so I used my vote to do so and hopefully get some more information for the town.

If you know I'm not a newby, then don't treat me like one! "oh, I pressure him with my vote, now he will tell me everything seeing I am so treathening"

get real: you only say it is a pressure vote to actually make clear it is not seriously for a lynch, and therefor it doesn't work.

Also, I see you have been using your vote an awful lot to pressure people[/sarcasm]

I see you did a lot of scumhunting[/sarcasm] you actually waited for VP and Hohum to do the job for you.

At the time of the post you quoted, I then knew you were not a newbie. Also, is it correct that mafia players only ever try and pressure newbies because that is what you are insinuating here.

I am doing a damn more scumhunting than you are. It is widely agreed that you are just offering colour commentary which is not really helpful, yet when you get a little bit of pressure you attack me for agreeing for VP, but you don't have a thing to say about him.

I will tentatively

Unvote

for now, although I am suspicious of Charnel, that was a joke vote so I feel it neccesary to remove it now we have left the RVS.

What a mess you make here: later you even need to tell us it is a pressure vote, just to be sure we won't attack you for weak reasoning. Can I order a lynch please?

In the second of Charnel's quotes, he basically says that the only reason a vote could be justified is if the voter wanted the target to be lynched. I disagree, pressuring is evidence of this. In the last quote he says that I only said that my vote was to pressure him because otherwise my reasoning would be weak, but in accordance with the above point, if my vote was not for pressuring, which I claimed it was, it would be for to lynch Charnel. The two quotes don't coincide, they contradict each other because Charnel thinks the only reason I should vote for him is if I want him to be lynched and then says that if I claimed that it wasn't, my reasoning would be weak. Which is it Charnel because as I see it, I cannot win, whatever I do, I would be inherently wrong.

[Octupis]

---

Announcing a pressure vote is like telling someone you're going to throw them a surprise party tonight. It doesn't really work.

Ah, I see...

[Octupis]

what do you think about VP Baltar's post 115 because you call me a follower but you don't actually dispute what I am agreeing with.

Since when do I agree with VP's points against me?

I agree with it, I was not claiming that you did. The question still stands.

WTH. No way. You actually think that telling the world you vote is for pressure makes that pressure real? No, you are making clear to the world your vote isn't serious. It has nothing to do with pressure.

No, I was kindly enlightened by muzzz in post 126. Although, I am sure you would feel slightly pressured if you were to be L-1 irrespective of the reasons behind the votes. I admit that it was stupid of me to think that and I am slightly embarrassed by it.

you are scumhunting? where? you are only following VP and Hohum, and bringing nothing new. You actually told you were just doing that.

If you compare our posts (My posts, Your posts), although you will probably disagree, I think, although I have posted less, my posts contain more substance, many of your posts are just commenting on what has happened in the game. Every player is literate so doing that serves no purpose.

All of this boils down to me trying to pressure you so to get more information. I told everybody that, so as you correctly pointed out, it is pointless as you are not going to be scared of my vote at L-2 especially when you know I don't want to lynch you right now. I know realise that my vote is useless where it is.

Unvote

I ask you the same question that I want VP to answer:

Regarding your first comment, would you have a problem if a theoretically just waited for a bandwagon?

[Octupis]

@all: If you vote or unvote, can you put it at or near the end of your posts on a separate line?

Will do, I apoligise for the confusion I have caused.

Still, my vote rests on Charnel because I want to know why he tried to ask for a lynch on someone else when he's under some pressure himself. I think he was in no position to do that.

This is a horrible reason to be voting someone.

Unvote, Vote: BloodCovenant

I'm fine with this. If anyone else is thinking about voting you, you need to claim.

I think BloodCoovenent is now at L-1. Wouldn't it a good idea for him to claim now?

[Octupis]

Regarding BloodCovenent's claim, isn't a possibility that he is a vanilla townie and he claimed doctor to protect the real doctor. Vanilla townie is obviously much less of a loss so if BloodCovenent could convince the scum that he was a vanilla townie he would save them from death. His behaviour and lack of "breadcrumbing", which I admit is a new concept to me, point to the contrary of this but never the less it is a possibility. I think it is quite unlikely but I thought I would post it none of the less. He has not done much scumhunting and now replaces, which doesn't strike me as the actions of an innocnet townie.

Charnel's defense of BCgruntz is suspect. The "sorry, try again" statement is irking me.

Seeing as now we *do* have to factor in town stupidity with our claim, my suggestion, lynch Char, investigate gruntz.

A thought just crossed my mind. egruntz could be playing a very smart game here, if he is actually the doctor and BloodCovenent was telling the truth, it would cause a lot of Wifom for the mafia on whether or not to risk their night kill on a claimed doctor/vanilla townie. This proposal could have merit as both Charnel and egruntz are suspected scum so if one dies today and the other gets investigated, we go into tomorrow with an awful lot of information.

I won't commit to a vote just yet as I would like to be more confident before considering doing so and would also like a votecount

I'm not into directing the cop anywhere. But lynching Charnel isn't a bad idea. Hohum, thoughts?

Why do you object to advising the cop on a target?

[Octupis]

I'd like to hear from Octo early this morning.

@Octo: what are your thoughts?

Well, I'm glad egruntz turned out to be scum. What I find more interesting is muzzz's death. Charnel and Yabba were the only people to vote from him, and Charnel/mykonian voted for him twice but I think that is of very little significance. I don't think there is any real evidence to point towards anyone being responsible. He didn't make any real enemies, he kinda coasted through the game not posting much after his initial interrogation.

Another thing I find interesting is Charnel. Going back to our mini argument earlier, it strikes me as weird that I was the only one that he attacked. He didn't seem alarmed that VP Baltar had just voted or the reasons why but was insistent on attacking me. OMGUS, I think it's called.

Following his near death experience where I incidentally saved him, his first post was to point out he had not actually been lynched. His following post was amazing, he said I had annoyed him but as I had saved him with my ninja unvote, I was no longer suspicious and all off my actions were fine. His reason being he had not kept a cool head. He then goes back to his vote on muzzz. It was unfortunate that the argument between BloodCovenent and huhom broke out where names were called not only because it wasn't very nice but it took the spotlight of off Charnel who had just nearly got lynched. He was obviously at L-1 for a bit so it begs the question why he didn't claim.

Vote Charnel

I was still suspicious of you after Day 1 even though I was okay in your eyes for saving your ass. Being at L-1 now, I expect you to claim. Just to clarify, I am intent on lynching you, this is not just to pressure you

That is what I think... I have other suspicions but they are not as fervent as my suspicions of Charnel.

[Octupis]

claim

confirmed town.

Being so problematic yesterday, I got investigated. The doc was also kind of clear, which makes this game with one mislynch to go an easy win. NO quicklynch, massclaim will win us this game.

How do you know you got investigated?

[Octupis]

Octu: Please hold off on answering the investigate speculation question for now. Please do process and then comment on the claim scenarios on the table.

Why am I so significant in this process huhom?

Charnel: it isn't time to mass claim. We're not in lylo yet.

Lylo is too late: you can't be wrong on the Pr's anymore:

now, with one mislynch, we have a few options:

One cop, one doc, one confirmed, one normal towny, and:

A a fakeclaiming scum as doc: lynch both docs for the win
B a fakeclaiming scum as cop: lynch both cops for the win
C a fakeclaiming scum as towny: lynch both townies for the win.

There is no way out for scum anymore.

This system cannot really fail can it? I have no objections to this.

There is one flaw. If scum shifts to a vanillaclaim, we have THREE suspects, when a lynch of 2 is all we can afford.

Here's my advice.

ONLY Vanillas claim first.

>>>If 2 claim, powerroles claim at this point, and whichever powerrole is claimed twice, lynch both of them.
>>>If 3 people claim vanilla, the scum is in the bunch.

If the latter occurs, ONLY if the cop has an innocent on one of the three should he yap up. Otherwise, everyone else says the blunt statement "I am not a cop with any innocent on the three."

If the cop does claim and call an innocent, first off, wait for a counterclaim, and if not counterclaimed, lynch the two townies not named innocent.

If he is counterclaimed, we can lynch the real cop and the faker.

The reason for this is because if the cop has NO innocent, we should let him stay silent. If we lynch a townie, we gamble on the cop staying alive (ergo, the doc is killed instead), and if he does, he investigates one of the two remaining people in the Vanilla crowd, and it becomes obvious which is which.

This is a heavily town-favored game right now.

I question why you are asking me huhom, but I don't see anything wrong with this idea either. Personally I would prefer the latter. Outing the PR I don't think is a good idea, because the scum would be foolish to counter claim one of those so I presume will claim vanilla leaving him a greater chance to reach the night and kill the claimed cop. I think the cop should only claim when absolutely necessary.

[Octupis]

First off, whatever we're doing, I think

Claim Vanilla

is the best thing I can do at this point.

There's STILL a disaster possible. If Charnel claims doc and isn't countered, we have ourselves a 3-VT pool (really 1 scum and 2 VTs) AND no way for the cop to live. Baltar, you are either an idiot or scum desperate to break up the process that's going to kill you. Take it as a compliment, I'm banking on the latter.

At this point, we might as well massclaim. *sigh*

Well I'm a good ol' fashioned VT.

Vote Yabba

[Octupis]

Got my guilty on Octupis last night. Wrong kill choice, buddy.

Vote Octupis

What can I say? Games up. I was considering you but I couldn't risk you being protected. I don't mind as such, at least I know to think twice next time. Well played all, I have enjoyed this game immensely. I'm awfully ticked off at BloodCovenent but despite that all I wanted was to avoid a perfect town victory; I couldn't handle the shame of that.

Sorry Mod. I appreciate that is isn't much the scum claiming but it is inevitable now. I was thinking of trying to counter claim you now VP but I don't think Charnel would have fallen for it for a second.

Vote Octupis

the dirty, rotten, good for nothing scum.