Mini 810: Infection! Mini - Game over!

[populartajo]

/sick but confirm

[populartajo]

/sick but confirm

haha, scum.

Confirm.

BM

No, responsible.

Tajo.

[populartajo]

Awww, I shouldnt have said I was sick.

Vote : Kelly Chen.

[populartajo]

Seems I didnt miss much.

Willshare my thoughts in some moments'

[populartajo]

Page 1. charter 22 is the first one bringing a serious point in the game. I like it.
Kelly asks for an explanaiton in 24. Null.


Page 2. Mokina's reactions are fine.
Charter's motivations for his proposal feel protown.

There's some merit to this. The odds are stacked against the town in the situation you describe. The next logical step for scum in the case of a mislynch would result in a guaranteed spread and suicide the next night - the outed fakeclaimer infects someone else, number of scum remains unchanged, and we lose the scientist

good posting.

Shotty 31.

If scum counter-claim they're risking a player which is (presumably?) half of their team. This is my first mini and we don't know how many scum or anything else there are out there.

shooty, how newbie would you consider yourself? why did you assume that scum would risk half of their team when counterclaiming?

Shooty and Mokina why are you assuming two scum distribution?

Mokina, we don't know if there are any scientists or bodyguards

Well, I doubt Xyl had crafted these roles that didnt play out in the marathon game and avoided them in his mini. Its very likely we have at least one of each role. He loves his roles.

haha, paperpenguin reminds me of the thread in gd where we pretend we are newbies. slightly townie vibe coming from him.

more "no claim" debate. I understand the pros. A power role claiming could prevent his lynch but if he survives we will never know if he will becomes infected.

bm has an interesting point in fakeclaiming when town.


Page 3.

More debate in this. Scumhunting is failing hard in this town. Liking Mokina. Some neutral reactions from Rally, Kelly, fallen angel and verrus.

Shotty and Kid are my current top two suspects.

Why?

[populartajo]

I might just be rusty... I'm not sure how to turn this around and get some more activity. I don't really want to pressure people not participating in a strategy discussion that I doubt is even that important.

Raise your hand if you're reading the game but are at a loss for what to say

/raise

kelly chen, werent you a famous game theorist in your previous time here?

[populartajo]

Conclusion:

too early for a scumlist but so far i like mokina, shooty, paperpenguin and charter.

a debate about game theory isnt going to help much in finding scum. seems we have a very silent group and everybody is holding their cards pretty tight.

basically we need more bm and bandwagons.

[populartajo]

Unvote Vote : BM

for lurking.

[populartajo]

I know you miss me.

Post tonight.

[populartajo]

Discussion can still occur and we can lynch the most scummy player if one presents. In the case of NL, the guard will have some good info to use in determining his kill. In no way did I mean to stifle the discussion and say we should no lynch NOW. But to me, it's as logical an end to a day as lynching someone, especially later in the game.

If the scum feel no threat of a lynch happening, they're unlikely to go out of their way to defend themselves or convince the town to off someone else. They'll be advocating the sit-back-and-relax approach, because it offers far better odds. Whether it's through a bandwagon or a misplaced argument, scum have consistently revealed themselves almost exclusively during the voting phase. Without the day game, we have no way of identifying the infected.

FoS: veerus

for pushing this point. I honestly don't believe it's a protown strategy at all.

Mokina, what made you change your mind about veerus?

[populartajo]

I guess I agree that NL kills off a lot of the potential discussion, but I still believe it's a decent back-up plan if there's a deadline.

Can someone tell me what the case on BM is? Besides lurking (something that could be said of many here).

How is a NL a "decent" back-up plan? Why would it be better then just lynching the scummiest player and thus having information by that? And again, on which other issues will we discuss if not on votes? Why don't you start a discussion to back up the decency of your back-up plan?

vote: veerus

until you back yourself up somehow. BM has enough votes on him for now.

Why did you vote veerus on this post and not in the post where he first proposes his idea? Do you think that the motivation behind his plan is scummy?

[populartajo]

thought i already did this.

Unvote

Mokina is town.

BM

Why?

Also, whats up with you being so liberal with your votes?

[populartajo]

Not lynching scummy players in this game is a mistake. If we let someone who acts scummy slide they'll just kill themselves that night and we lose our chance at taking down a scum. This isn't a normal game where we could hold them in our pocket till we are ready to lynch them. The odds of shooting an infected player are exactly 1 in 6 if there are two scum and 1 in 4 if there are three scum. Those don't exactly seem like good odds to me. We need to have day time action to give the PRs something to work with instead of a shot in the dark after a NL.

FOS: Veerus

Same question, Shooty. Can you find some protown motivation in veerus suggestion or do you think its more likely to come from scum?

[populartajo]

As for a serious suspect at this point, on a reread, im pretty happy to run up Shotty to the Body, with Charter as his likely partner. Might be a bit early for distancing, but i dont see anyone else obvious at this point, and 1 of Charter's posts made me a bit wary if i recall.

Please elaborate.

[populartajo]

KKN, are you softclaiming scum? I agree that everyone is guilty until proven innocent, but still, your comment strikes me as quite odd. Still, BM's seeming knowledge of alignment is a bit strange too.

What is the point on asking someone if he is softclaiming scum?

A

[populartajo]

Still, BM's seeming knowledge of alignment is a bit strange too.

Why?

[populartajo]

PP, there are so many flaws in that plan it isn't even funny. You
1) Want all basic townies dead, which would out the power roles and most likely get them infected before they can be killed.
2) You might be able to, but if your plan fails we lose the game. Not worth the risk.
3) How are the townies supposed to commit suicide? Get mod-killed? We get one lynch a day, and I'm not wasting mine because you want to out the PRs and make a scum win more likely.

Unvote, Vote PaperPenguin

. That is probably the most anti-town statement I have ever heard.

BM- Post 129 was a misunderstanding, I thought LoS was Lynch on Sight as suggested. The post 127 was mainly to get his reaction. Your stance on Mokina doesn't entirely convince me, but I admit it was a fairly weak statement. It was mostly due, again, to the misunderstanding of what LoS meant.

Yep, this post has the "Im going for an easy lynch here" feeling written all over it.

I also dislike how fallen kinda apologizes to BM.

[populartajo]

My list

Prob town

veerus
Kise
charter
Kid Know Nothing
Shotty to the Body

Neutral

Mokina
Battle Mage
malthusis
Kelly Chen

Prob scum

fallen angel
Rally Vincent

Fallen angel is scummy as hell.

Vote: fallenangel.

[populartajo]

Really, why isnt fallen angel not even near to be lynched yet?

[populartajo]

@Tajo - What is it about veerus that you believe is town-like? I'm having an opposing reading of him.

Its about the motivation.

First, scum are less likely to bring polemic ideas to the game. It gathers unnecessary attention.

Second, if you deeply analyse veerus proposition, you can see a protown motivation in his idea. Yeah, there are fatal flaws as some have already explained but reread that post assuming veerus is town.

Upon re-reading the infected role, do the scum

have

to infect someone at night? How do the previous theories hold up if the scum just let the town lynch each other without bothering to infect anyone?

I think it makes more sense to vote no-lynch and let the security guard & scientist roles shoot it out with the scum at night.

This way we don't risk accidentally lynching those roles and we don't force them to claim and out themselves either.

When you consider the fact that there are test subjects in the mix who may or may not be infected, I must say I like our chances.

unvote; vote: no lynch

There you go, the motivation at bold.

[populartajo]

Sorry, I had a very busy and alcoholic weekend.

Ill post at night

[populartajo]

Really, why isnt fallen angel not even near to be lynched yet?

I want everyones opinions on this guy.

Kaythxbay.

[populartajo]

@Tajo - What is it about veerus that you believe is town-like? I'm having an opposing reading of him.

Its about the motivation.

First, scum are less likely to bring polemic ideas to the game. It gathers unnecessary attention.

Second, if you deeply analyse veerus proposition, you can see a protown motivation in his idea. Yeah, there are fatal flaws as some have already explained but reread that post assuming veerus is town.

Upon re-reading the infected role, do the scum

have

to infect someone at night? How do the previous theories hold up if the scum just let the town lynch each other without bothering to infect anyone?

I think it makes more sense to vote no-lynch and let the security guard & scientist roles shoot it out with the scum at night.

This way we don't risk accidentally lynching those roles and we don't force them to claim and out themselves either.

When you consider the fact that there are test subjects in the mix who may or may not be infected, I must say I like our chances.

unvote; vote: no lynch

There you go, the motivation at bold.

I find that "Scum don't want unnecessary attention" scumtell is not one to rely on because in the games I've played, there is usually one scum who tries to be a main pillar of the town to make sure they don't get lynched.
(A great example of this in a game I was in is in Mini 779, where Imaginality stayed off everyone's scumdar's and if the game had gone into endgame, he would have convincingly fooled the town). Also, when does saying a suggestion that is a good for the town make you exceptionally pro-town?

Yeah, but usually this kind of scum propose good ideas.

No lynch is a bad idea for the reasons already provided. But the explanation feels more likely town motivated than scum faking town behavior.

[populartajo]

I can only list two? That's no fun.

I get a weird vibe from Tajo.. obviously, he hasn't said anything scummy, but the things he says just make my gut feel funny. I'm curious to know more about how he came to the conclusion of who is prob-town & prob-scum.

As for my 2nd suspect... I don't have anything to make a strong case on anyone, so as far as everyone else goes, you all are somewhere in the middle.

Bermuda Triangle.

What in my posts dont you like?

[populartajo]

Dear town:

The scum are Rally Vincent and Fallen Angel, please lets start a wagon on any of them, preferably on in fallen angel.

Love and XOXO
Your BFF, Tajo.

[populartajo]

My vote on PP was not opportunistic. It seemed like he was trying to push a ridiculous idea that doesn't seem possible when the carrying out of this would cause the town to lose. Assuming there are maybe two infected in this game, and two power roles, all the townies dying makes the town lose. Why even suggest that?

More easy target attacking. Lynch please.

[populartajo]

KKN, have you heard of the easy target theory before?

I must tell you that it has worked wonderful in all my time here. All the scum at some point go for it.

In this scenario, PP makes an unorthodox suggestion.

What do you guys think of having all vanillas commit suicide right now? Depending on the number of projected power roles, we might be able to force the scum to go through a tight hole. Could somebody work the numbers on this, please. I certainly can't.

Do you feel the scum motivation in that post? I dont. At all. It is a bad idea but I use the same logic with veruus here: the motivation (we might be able to force the scum to go through a tight hole) and how likely are scum to suggest polemic ideas.

However, someone felt this post was warrant of a vote.

Unvote, Vote PaperPenguin. That is probably the most anti-town statement I have ever heard.

So this is my reasoning: I think PaperPenguin is just a misguided townie trying to provide his idea of helping the town. Obviously the logic reaction to that post is "what a bad idea", also with the obvious evidence that paper seems inexperienced. But why the vote? So you can understand me, would you have voted PaperPenguin for that?

I thought fallen angel would realize his mistake but he pushed his idea:
[quote"fallen angel"]My vote on PP was not opportunistic. It seemed like he was trying to push a ridiculous idea that doesn't seem possible when the carrying out of this would cause the town to lose. Assuming there are maybe two infected in this game, and two power roles, all the townies dying makes the town lose. Why even suggest that?[/quote]

Add his (active) lurking, easily found isolating his posts that lack content, and voila, we have a very likely scum.

[populartajo]

Im catchin up tonight. Had a very busy weekend.

[populartajo]

KNK, which exactly is your problem with me?

Do you think fallen angel is town?

[populartajo]

Tajo

- are you going to answer my question?

Rally, I think you are scum for your relation with fallen angel, which I think is very obvscum. It seems that you and fallen are growing suspicions together. You even admitted that some of your reasoning are very similar.

I also dislike your push of the veerus situation. Do you still think he is prob scum?

What do you think of the others?

[populartajo]

I'd have to say I actually don't have a very good feeling about PP/Kise.

why?

[populartajo]

My problem with you is that it seems that you are assuming that possible scummy actions are simply "misguided townie's" mistakes while using that as an excuse to discredit someone's vote.

You are getting things wrong. The trick of the game is to try to find motivations. I think that the scummy action you are talking about is more likely to come from a misguided townie than from a mafioso. Ive already given the reasons why.

What is so wrong with that?

The bonus comes when you have someone voting for that misguided townie, trying to paint his actions as something only scum would do. Scum vote for this kind of players all the time, hence the easy target theory. As I said before, Ive caught numerous scum for doing this. You have a suggestion that at first glance its scummy; who is more likely to target that player without analyzing things first (newbie status and such)?

I bet you can come up with a more prob answer, at least.

You've also been asking for peoples opinions on who YOU think is scummy all the while keeping your lips shut tight. You've called for the lynch of those players twice now, without even giving a reason why.

Read, dude. My reasons are in this thread. Ive given reasons. Dont know why you missed them.

It seems that you found someone you could attack while asking the town to do your dirty work for you. You've brought up one semi-feasible point that assumes someone is town and that's it. Why are you so sure that FA is scum?

See above.

Really, knk, this is pretty simple. Have no idea why are you so defensive of FA? The "town lists only help the scum" excuse is crap. Tell me what exactly in this game makes you think that fallen angel is not scum?

[populartajo]

Oh, Xyl, happy scumday.

My gift is a broken quote tag.

[populartajo]

The problem comes from you assuming that someone is a "misguided townie." Yes, you can read into things such as status and motivation. But when it comes down to it, you can't really rely on that to be an indicator of town. Newbie scum could just as easily have proposed the same plan. The motivation goes both ways.

You become a good mafia player when you can rely on small things being indicator of town. Ive done this every game.

Why exactly does this make me suspicious?

Do you think that people that also dont find scummy motivations on Paperpeguin proposal are also scum?

[populartajo]

The problem comes from you assuming that someone is a "misguided townie." Yes, you can read into things such as status and motivation. But when it comes down to it, you can't really rely on that to be an indicator of town. Newbie scum could just as easily have proposed the same plan. The motivation goes both ways.

You become a good mafia player when you can rely on small things being indicator of town. Ive done this every game.

Why exactly does this make me suspicious?

Do you think that people that also dont find scummy motivations on Paperpeguin proposal are also scum?

No, I don't if they have more reasoning to back it up. However, assuming hurts the town and thats why I'm suspicious of you. Originally, the way you calling for the lynch of FA worried me. I had seen little in the way of a case from you but you already seemed sure. You still do, he's "obvscum" correct?

Please answer my question; why is he obv. scum?

Ive told you. I see scum do all the time what fallen did in this game. Going for an easy target that is at first glance scummy. I can give you links if you want. In those games, I was also attacked for assuming someone was town. Guess not all share my deductive powers. Or they are scum.

Now, answer the questions:

What is so scummy in thinking that someone is prob town?

Do you think that people that also dont find scummy motivations on Paperpeguin proposal are also scum? You said no, if they have more reasoning to back it up. I also do have my reasoning. Why is my reasoning scummy?

Do you think paper penguin is scum? Do you think fallen angel is town?

[populartajo]

Tajo

- are you going to answer my question?

Rally, I think you are scum for your relation with fallen angel, which I think is very obvscum. It seems that you and fallen are growing suspicions together. You even admitted that some of your reasoning are very similar.

I also dislike your push of the veerus situation. Do you still think he is prob scum?

What do you think of the others?

Why don't you like that I want someone I think is scum to be lynched? What has veerus done that would change my mind? Maybe you missed it, as you always reduce me on voting veerus for a "plan scum would not come up with" so he's town. I voted veerus not for his NL plan only, but for his intention to not have day 1 discussion. Again, he vouched NL, which I take as a discussion killer. veerus said discussion could still occur, but he did his best to not be involved in any. I only see scum wanting to have no discussion on Day 1 when we have the starting positions. Tajo, take the NL aside and tell me if veerus is town with what he has actually done in this game. Did he hunt scum by your standards?

No.

I think its pretty clear how I play this game. Not all townies in this game are excellent scumhunters or excellent debaters. But there is something that cant be faked. Yes (its starting to get repetitive) the motivation to do things.

Veerus and paperpeguin both proposed things that at first glance look scummy but as you deeply analyse them, they become just bad ideas.

Ill give you something to analyse. Besides your veerus hate, what else have you actually done in this game?

[populartajo]

Tell me why a good townie should ever assume someone is town.

You really have no idea how to play this game, do you?

Giving me "Its an experience" is a lame excuse, if you want someone lynched you should be able to back up your reasoning with more than what is essentially gut feeling.

You are being obnoxious on purpose? My reasoning is more than gut feeling. Voting for an easy target its a freaking scumtell, ffs. Scum do it ALL the time.

Do I think PP is scum? He wasn't in the game long enough for me to say

Tell me then why fallen angel thought it deserved a vote.

[populartajo]

Tell me why a good townie should ever assume someone is town.

You really have no idea how to play this game, do you?

Giving me "Its an experience" is a lame excuse, if you want someone lynched you should be able to back up your reasoning with more than what is essentially gut feeling.

You are being obnoxious on purpose? My reasoning is more than gut feeling. Voting for an easy target its a freaking scumtell, ffs. Scum do it ALL the time.

Do I think PP is scum? He wasn't in the game long enough for me to say

Tell me then why fallen angel thought it deserved a vote.

I'm being obnoxious? You might want to re-read your posts sometime and count how many times you are overly condescending. I can point that out, but there's no real point in it.

And I don't answer for FA, as such a great player I would think you would know that. I'm not defending FA's vote, something I've already said. I'm attacking you because I find you scummy.

You find me scummy because:

a)I think paperperguin is prob town. I gave my reasons. You are free to disagree with me and others. Assuming someone is prob town for scumhunting purposes is not scummy AT ALL.

b)I think fallen angel is prob scum. I gave my reasons. You are free to disagree with me and others.

There is something I am missing. How the hell am I scummy for doing what I am doing?

[populartajo]

Rally, your 320 is a much better post. It really helped me understanding where you are.

Tajo: I'd see him rather leaning town, but: if veerus somehow turns to be town, and PP/Kise too, he'd have a pretty nice position as scum defending those two.

I dont understand this. Can you rephrase?

[populartajo]

Hey Xyl what are the deadline rules?

[populartajo]

Day 1 Vote Count

Mokina -

2

(Kelly Chen, Battle Mage)
veerus -

2

(Rally Vincent, Shotty to the Body)
fallen angel -

2

(populartajo, Kise)
Kise -

2

(fallen angel, charter)
populartajo -

1

(Kid Know Nothing)
Rally Vincent -

1

(veerus)

Not voting: malthusis, Mokina
With 12 alive it will take 7 to lynch

Deadline: July 21

Okay, time to sort this mess.

Chen and BM, why are you voting Mokina? Who is your second suspect?

Shotty, why are you voting veerus? Who is your second suspect?

Charter and fallen, why are you voting Kise? Who is your second suspect?

veerus, why are you voting Vincent? Who is your second suspect?

[populartajo]

As usual, I had a very busy and alcoholic weekend. Ill post as soon as I get out of my office. Tonight.

[populartajo]

Sup Xyl, I think we should get a deadline extension.

[populartajo]

General rules include considering deadline extensions in case a replacement is being searched.

[populartajo]

Anyway, seems a lot of people think fallen angel has some degree of suspicion. I dont see this kind of pseudoagreement with any other player.

I think fallen angel is our lynch for today.

Vote accordingly.

[populartajo]

Any news on Mokina replacement, then?

[populartajo]

Any news on Mokina replacement, then?

[populartajo]

Preferably before deadline.

Anyway, I would also like that you update the opening post with a standard set of rules.

Thx.

[populartajo]

Would like to use this first post of the day to say that easy target scumtell proves its efectiveness once again.

I dont know if someone can make numbers, but given the number of players and the mechanic of the game, can we have a more exact idea how many infected do we have in the setup? 2? 3?

Would like to use this post also to say that Im very likely town and that now that we know fallen angel was scum, KNK is a pretty good start for hunting today.

Insert case about his subtle defense of fallen angel of and last attempt to vote Kise near deadline.

Vote : KNK.

[populartajo]

^^This is good posting but it doesnt take into account a big part of the game.

Scientists.

Thats why I think its possible to call someone so strongly against fallen angel, like me, very likely town.

If we assume 1 infected left, Malthusisscum wouldnt target someone so likely to be protected, causing his infection to fail and therefore losing the game.

Also, I think its possible to have a list of people Malthusis wouldnt have infected, but I need to reread.

[populartajo]

^^This is good posting but it doesnt take into account a big part of the game.

Scientists.

Thats why I think its possible to call someone so strongly against fallen angel, like me, very likely town.

If we assume 1 infected left, Malthusisscum wouldnt target someone so likely to be protected, causing his infection to fail and therefore losing the game.

Also, I think its possible to have a list of people Malthusis wouldnt have infected, but I need to reread.

You make a valid point. It should be considered, but likewise, if Malthusis was genuinely worried about a Scientist, i think he'd probably have opted not to infect at all, rather than infect a weaker player than himself.

BM

I think he went with a safe option. I think his most logic reasoning would be to :

a)Infect someone more experienced than him.

b)Infect someone that wouldnt be targeted for vaccination.

I know there are some that fit this group. I dont think its basically day 1 again since there are some people less likely to be infected.

[populartajo]

Would like to use this first post of the day to say that easy target scumtell proves its efectiveness once again.

I dont know if someone can make numbers, but given the number of players and the mechanic of the game, can we have a more exact idea how many infected do we have in the setup? 2? 3?

Would like to use this post also to say that Im very likely town and that now that we know fallen angel was scum, KNK is a pretty good start for hunting today.

Insert case about his subtle defense of fallen angel of and last attempt to vote Kise near deadline.

Vote : KNK.

Again, I never defended FA. I said that many times. I found you suspicious for the way you went about your case on FA.

And no. You aren't very likely town. No one is ever cleared in this game and asserting yourself to be town does not look good for you. The only person who can clear anyone would be a Scientist and assuming that a Scientist was on you loses games.

Please show me where I defended FA, answered any questions for FA, or anything of the sort. You tried to lure me into answer for FA quite a few times and I ignored those questions. IIRC.

I agree with BM, the game practically starts again today.

Dude, you made a case on Kise near deadline instead of listening to what I said about fallen angel and paperpeguin. You were daft to it and you were basically the only one that didnt think fallen angel was scummy. Look, seems I was right about him.

These are facts and there are in this thread.

Of course my case on you only works if there are 3 infected which Im still pondering.

And no, the game didnt start again. There are some people that are less likely to be infected by malthusis. Dismissing that information is silly.

Also, please provide solid evidence of why Im less likely to be town than anyone, considering that a)I was the big pusher of the fallen angel lynch and b)infected wouldnt have targeted me fearing a possible vaccination in myself.

[populartajo]

The fact is there is NO evidence of why you should be town yet.

I never said there was evidence. I said that Im more likely to be town.

I've said it before; I'm not assuming anyone to be town. I don't care who've you made a case on; assuming anyone is town without solid evidence they are, which you really don't have, can kill the town. One of my first games taught me that lesson.

You do remember what happened when I assumed paperpenguin was prob town and fallen angel was prob scum for going against him, right?

And no. I never said if I thought FA was scummy or not. Yes, I attacked you. Yes, I chose to make a case on Kise over FA because that is the way I read the game.

Yes but FA was scum. You should at least expect someone else asking why you preferred to attack someone a proven infected also attacked.

KNK, Ill give you an advice. This game is not about people proving someone is town 100% or someone is scum 100%. Its about probabilities and you have to assume some things to have a better gaming. Few things on mafia are 100%.

Ill give you the benefit of the doubt, who do you think malthusis could have targetted?

[populartajo]

Im here rereading.

[populartajo]

Im posting in this game tonight.

In the meanwhile, I want EVERYONE to comment in their following post.

How many scum LEFT do you think there are? And why?

[populartajo]

I think 358 is a very potent reason to think there are 2 scum left. I dont see Malthusis using a deadline extension request to wifom the number of scum.

charter, when did you notice post 358?

[populartajo]

kay, charter is town.

what do you think of bm claim?

[populartajo]

BM, the question. How many scum do you think we have left?

[populartajo]

charter, what do you think of bm claim?

[populartajo]

Has the idea of BM lying to save his ass for one day before suiciding crossed your mind?

[populartajo]

Okay, so lets lynch Kelly Chen, then.

Vote : Kelly Chen.

[populartajo]

Sorry guys V/LA until the 18th. City holidays.

[populartajo]

If this were a normal game, we could have already won this . Infections are going to make this harder than I thought.

Town

veerus
Rally Vincent
Battle Mage (he confirms or dies by real guard)
charter
Shotty to the Body
Kise

Possible infections

Kelly Chen
The Replacement

Possible original scum

KNK /tubby216

I really think Kelly is more probable infected than Mokina. The Replace is also a possiblity but Im willing to take the risk. Also if we are looking for original scum, we should be looking at KNK, now tubby. Yesterday his defense of fallen angel was illogical. His posts today have been crap and less energetic than yesterday. Im smelling pessimistic scum.

[populartajo]

Something in day 1 made me think he was prob town. I need to go back and check what was it. I dont think he is also a good target for infection but anyways, Ill check.

In the meanwhile, why do you think he is scum?

[populartajo]

Yes you do.

Confirm vote : Kelly Chen.

[populartajo]

Unvote Vote: Battle Mage.

[populartajo]

Work. Busy. Shit. V/LA. Tomorrow night.

[populartajo]

Unvote

Need to think more. Dont lynch until I come back.

[populartajo]

Actually, my only reason to give BM a free pass was because of his guard claim.

Charter, what about if there is no guard in the setup?

About Shotty, you think he is original infected or he got the infection in the night?

[populartajo]

My only options today are Chen and Battle Mage. Deciding the fate of my vote.

Not seeing the shooty case. I dont think he is original infected and his infection at night would have been a poor choice.

[populartajo]

veerus - 2 (tubby216, Battle Mage)

This doesnt make any sense at all. Veerus is obvtown.

BM, stop being a prick, explain clearly why are you voting veerus? Why did you fakeclaim? Why did you breadcrumb that you were a guard?

[populartajo]

If you are following the 3 scum theory, you can take as red that i am not that 3rd scumbag. If i was, i'd have gladly taken the bullet last night over Malthusis, given how useless i was on Day 1.

I dont see malthusis being in a better position than you after day 1, so this argument is crap.

[populartajo]

Kelly or tajo, put me out of my misery.

kay.

this is my theory, I think its very likely:

tubby is replacing knk who is original scum (defending fallen with illogic arguments and lurking all day 2). Tubby's recent defense of bm is also illogic. That means bm was infected last night and tubby is doing everything to deflect the wagon to obvtown veerus. Tubby's plan is obviously suicide tonight.

BMscum got infected last night and thought it would be clever to fakeclaim guard. He even bread crumbed guard. I dont see any town motivation for doing what he did.

that means we win tonight if the scientist or real guard targets tubby tonight. So we have a plan here. We either prevent the infection and lynch tubby tomorrow or we win in the night.

bad news is that i still have a terrible bad feeling about chen but it doesnt fly in my bmscum scenario. If Im wrong about my theory then he can buy bm a big cake of phail.

Voting in 8 hours, so any last words are accepted.

[populartajo]

yeah, this means Im right.

regardless of bm flip you are going to die.

thoughts on BM i believe his claim he may have been the guard but i believe he could be infected now, because the guard and other people lose their abilities when infectewd but then agian BM could have been busy and forgot to shoot but its doubtful.

care to explain this 180?

[populartajo]

what changed your mind?

[populartajo]

can you explain the similarities?

why did you think he was prob infected?

[populartajo]

veerus - 2 (tubby216, Battle Mage)

This doesnt make any sense at all. Veerus is obvtown.

BM, stop being a prick, explain clearly why are you voting veerus? Why did you fakeclaim? Why did you breadcrumb that you were a guard?

Tubby did it, and tubby is obvtown. Plus, Veerus was discernibly opportunistic regarding my wagon.

Tell me why Veerus is confirmed town. I'm listening.

Not confirmed. He is obvtown because I doubt he is original scum (reasons are stated by me in day 1) and I dont think he is a optymal night choice for infection.

No idea on the last question. I fakeclaimed because i'm a Test Subject. No real merit to claiming that, as the whole point of the role is that you want the scum to target you. Had i claimed accurately, i'd have been useless. *shrug*

BM

facepalm. So why did you breadcrumb guard?

Now you tell me why tubby is obvtown. Just because he is defending you? Why cant tubbyscum stay out of the wagon and defend you?

[populartajo]

Vote: BM

Guard, scientist target tubby today. He dies tonight or tomorrow.

[populartajo]

awesome its been fun but since i am most likely dead tonite i'll claim

i am a technician,

So why did you claim?

I am the only one suspecting you.

[populartajo]

Grandpa had car accident. No access until things get better. If I take too long please replace me.

[populartajo]

Charter or anyone voting shotty, unvote right now. Im dead serious.

Shotty, claim targets and reasons.

Charter you should know better.

FOS.

Are you confident on this wagon?

Kelly Chen, animorpherv1, tubby216??

Im not.

Animorpherv, give opinions on every player here.

tubby216, why did you claim yesterday when I was the only one suspecting you?

Kelly Chen, what is your case on shotty?

[populartajo]

(Tajo, best wishes for your grandfather.)

Shotty is scum. I'm in for his lynch. I was just going to vote him, but saw that Tajo wants some questions answered, so I'll wait... a bit.[/b]

Grandpa is still in the hospital but he is well. Thx.

Vincent, why is Shotty scum?

[populartajo]

I wasn't going to out all my targets since I can't save them again, but since charter is clearly being incredibly thick-headed or scummy I guess I'll have to.

N1 I vaccinated charter, I figured scum wouldn't try to touch tajo and charter was a good second choice. Half the reason I'm being attacked was for agreeing with charter a lot yesterday and that was because I was relatively sure he was clean at that point, because I thought he was pro-town on D1 and I protected him that night, now not so much.

N2 I vaccinated no one, I expected the no-kill because if the scum wanted to push this wagon through they couldn't kill if they wanted to use the excuse that I was vaccinated and that's why I didn't suicide as a lynchpin.

Why did you think scum would push your wagon? Who is scum?

[populartajo]

I wasn't going to out all my targets since I can't save them again, but since charter is clearly being incredibly thick-headed or scummy I guess I'll have to.

N1 I vaccinated charter, I figured scum wouldn't try to touch tajo and charter was a good second choice. Half the reason I'm being attacked was for agreeing with charter a lot yesterday and that was because I was relatively sure he was clean at that point, because I thought he was pro-town on D1 and I protected him that night, now not so much.

N2 I vaccinated no one, I expected the no-kill because if the scum wanted to push this wagon through they couldn't kill if they wanted to use the excuse that I was vaccinated and that's why I didn't suicide as a lynchpin.

This is the biggest load of crap ever! You seriously vaccinated me night one? Yeah right! I was a HUGE candidate for scum with my repeated defending of FA and trying to get Kise lynched. Night two you didn't protect at all? That's the ABSOLUTE BIGGEST pile of BS ever. Even randomly protecting is a great idea because if scum suicide, you have a chance of A) stopping them, and B) saving the person they were going to infect.

Are you confident on this wagon?

100%. Zero doubt in my mind.

Stop. Hammer Time!

So if I was going to fake-claim something I would pick actions that would come under attack? Good thinking, guess the truth can be a little shocking, especially when I was right about the no kill. When you flip me I hope you realize you're a fool, unless you're scum then well-played you got everyone fooled (except tajo).

lol, no.

First, you targetting charter night 1 doesnt make sense at all when he was attacking kise who was the obv infected mislynch day 1.

Second, why in hell you didnt protect anyone yesterday? Doesnt make sense at all when protections are almost win win situations for town.

Third, how many scum do you think there are? Charter, animo and Kelly Chen? Then why are you scared scum are going to hammer and suicide next night when all the assumed scum are on your wagon?

Meh, I would like more from tubby and ani before doing this but I think its very likely shotty is infected.

Vote : shotty.

[populartajo]

Back. Sorry I was away for the weekend.

Why do yall want to vote me?

Also, thoughts on Mokina original scum or infected at night? This could become important in our guessing of the number or original infected.

More tonight.

[populartajo]

What are you talking about?

[populartajo]

Replacement/Mokina was pretty clearly original scum. I explained why back on day two.

tajo, I'd vote you because you would have been one of my top infection choices last night.

why?

[populartajo]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 19#1805219
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#1805222c

I agree with Rally about veerus making even less sense than usual today, however, I'm not seeing scum off him currently.

No, why would I have been a top infection choice last night?

[populartajo]

hm i thought i was pretty clear..

we've had 2 suicides, malt and mokina/et al. Given how tajo was the obvious choice D1, i feel it's pretty likely that malt would've gone for someone else.. as i (and BM) mentioned early in D2, KC was likely the one who malt would've picked

fast forward to last night's suicide.. the two obvious choices are tajo and charter.. to me, charter is the more likely target since he's been significantly more active and spot on with several of his reads however tajo is a great choice as well.

the idea behind my vote on KC is that i feel that that was malt's infection choice - a theory given strength by KC's counter wagon on Shotty to save replacement. Assuming this is correct, we can then evaluate today's play from tajo and charter to determine who's our last infected for tomorrow...... savvy?

I like this post. Very much. And I havent liked KC, specially in day 2, when debating with BM.

Vote: Kelly Chen.

[populartajo]

Oh, well, I think you were still pretty town yesterday and yesterday I wouldn't have thought you'd be lynchable, and with Shotty dead, you seem like a good candidate to infect.

But yesterday I played like crap, fearing an infection.

However, I really have no clue how animorph's mind works, so I don't know if he did what I would have.

Im pretty sure logic doesnt work in his mind after all what everyone said about malthusis.

[populartajo]

i think veerus is an obv choice,

since tajo and charter appeared to be the most pro-town targets, veerus was all but confirm town by all but me, to me it makes sense to infect him and then sit back and watch as charter and tajo tear each other apart today. then wich ever isnt lynched today makes for an easy target tomorrow,

thats my reason for voting veerus today

tubby this isnt about what makes sense to you.

I sincerely doubt veerus would be infected. He is a potential lynch for some people.

[populartajo]

Yeah but charter being in a hurry to lynch Shotty doesn't seem relevant to veerus' theory for charterscum.

Charter is the most-likely-infected for veerus, as he said - regardless if you or me think charter is. Since we had two suicides, that equals that for veerus charter is most likely scum. I fail to see why he has to vote for the same player charter does if he thinks charter is scum. Doesn't make sense.

What I was pointing out was that veerus only thought charter was scum as of last night. So charter's behavior regarding lynching Shotty wasn't relevant.


Well here's my vote.

vote: poptajo

I will accept your questions until the bitter end, if you have any. Don't be shy

Why are you voting me?

[populartajo]

So, nobody seems to find this odd?

awesome its been fun but since i am most likely dead tonite i'll claim

i am a technician,

I sincerely doubt veerus would be infected. He is a potential lynch for some people.

Really? For who? Besides me, everybody says veerus is obv town. Every day. How would veerus be a bad target?

Veerus is a bad target because even some think he is prob town (like me), he has been suspected by some people in some stages of the game. Also, I dont remember having the impression of everybody but you thinking he as prob town, but I might be wrong.

About the claim, yeah, I also asked him why did he claim when I was the only one pressuring him.

[populartajo]

Veerus is a bad target because even some think he is prob town (like me), he has been suspected by some people in some stages of the game. Also, I dont remember having the impression of everybody but you thinking he as prob town, but I might be wrong.

We're on Day 4. Who hasn't been suspected now and then? But even if I am wrong about veerus' alignment - there was at no time the danger for veerus of being lynched. He may not have been a good target on Day 1, but being prob town got most players chosen as likely infection target. What's different about veerus?

Even if he were considered prob town I would think that veerus wouldnt be a good choice for winning the game considering he got flak early and that at some point everyone can be suspected again as possible target for infection.

In few words, I think scum are probably infecting a)people that are considered prob town but not too town to avoid scientits and b)people not likely to make mistakes. I think we can make a clear diferentiation here between veerus and someone like Kelly Chen, for example.

[populartajo]

I ask again, why would ani target me over anyone else or you, for example?

[populartajo]

Yey, win.

Yeah, three scientists and two test subjects seems a little excessive against scum. I guess it could be balanced by the idea that at some point townies would ponder their odds of winning if they got infected (I thought it at some point) and stopped playing optimally.

Fallen angel's lynch day 1, I think, was the breaking point, I guess.

Good game all and thx Xyl, loved the concept, althought sometimes the game gets too wifomy. But I enjoyed it.

[populartajo]

I am assuming you arent sharing the qt, huh Kelly?

[populartajo]

fallen proposed recruiting the whole town so everyone could win.

Awww.

Also I had totally forgotten scum could day talk.