Mini 809 ~ Mafia ViPod (Game Over!)

[Juls]

/confirm

[Juls]

@Vi: Awesome Battery Power ASCII art.

Vote: VP_Baltar

because you did it.

[Juls]

Nope she is right....

[Juls]

Hey mod

, are you able to tell us what that little writing is all about? Or did I miss it?

[Juls]

Yeah I saw that too. I also thought it said "thing" but I always mishear lyrics.

[Juls]

Daykill: Empking

. I will do it for ya.

Careful, a bunch of people ITT are immune to McRoll because they know where it comes from ~Vi

[Juls]

I noticed what hasdgfas said and I realized he probably had a power role but thought it was better not to put a big flashing light on it to say "HEY LOOK AT HIM". I don't think the question was necessarily pro-town since it is one that could have been asked in private and I don't think it is very pro-town of VP Baltar to make an issue of it this early simply because it could go either way. You are either pushing the lynch of someone who has a power role or you are pushing the lynch of scum. Either way, we should let the rest of his actions speak for themselves.

[Juls]

Unvote

Just a quick glance and VP is getting close to a lynch. I joke voted him and am a little suspicious but not enough for a quick lynch. Going to reread quickly now.

[Juls]

Unvote

Vote: VP

Role Fishing

Of all the interaction with VP this one seems to be one of the more scummy. He is piggy-backing ek's argument without adding anything to it and its one of those middle of the wagon votes that tend toward scum.

Also, I agree with Pesco's 98 but his VP/EK connection is disconcerting.

Vote: Empking

[Juls]

@mod:

Will the Power meter ever increase due to super-duper activity or will it always go down?

The Power meter goes in one direction - down.
If something happens to me, it may stay the same until I get back, but the most you can do is minimize the amount that it decreases. ~Vi

[Juls]

mod:

I am V/LA for the rest of the weekend for my anniversary.

[Juls]

Catching up on all my games tonight....but have to eat dinner now. Post coming later.

[Juls]

What exactly do you agree with when it comes to Pesco?

I agreed with this portion:

Sure it's rather crappy for a serious vote reason, but look where it's come to now. You're still voting cow for lack of a better target, I expect you should find one pretty soon.

--------

I would like to know why Juls and forbiddan are voting empking over pesco.

I agree his vote was just an echo of my reasoning, etc, but his vote was L-2, and PEsco's vote put VP at L-1 (on page 4, not page fiev like I said last post). Pesco's vote is worse because it was the latest one on the wagon, going L-1 on page 4, plus she calls me scummy in the same post. If you think guy's main attacker is scummy, you don't put guy at L-1.

At the time of my vote on Empking I was under the assumption that Pesco's vote was actually L-2. I may have miscounted. Regardless, I felt like what Pesco was saying was a "on this hand" / "on the other hand" scenario. But doing it in the same post was troublesome and didn't make sense to me.

I see where it could be taken as a softclaim, but I honestly doubt it was, and people trying to make it that way are approaching the anti town zone.

Again, lets let cow's actions speak for themselves while keeping this in the back of our mind. It garnered conversation and made us question motivations of people who were pushing the issue. This is productive for town.

All caught up. I don't see a reason to remove my vote from Empking. I have seen Empking give marginal content as town so I was and am not satisfied with a piggy-back vote.

[Juls]

Actually, I sort of agree with this, although I find it unlikely for EK to be scum without VP Baltar. But with your conclusion, why do you want to lynch one and then the other? Isn't there a much better chance that they are scum with others?

Two players alone wouldn't make a scumteam if we were to go by standard distributions. But these two players are where we're going to find links.

There is something about this reply that sits awkwardly with me. The only link we have right now is that they were fighting at the start of the game. It's almost as if you have locked in on EK and VP and are refusing to look else where. What do you think about the rest of the players?

This. I could parrot it but it says exactly what I am thinking.

Unvote. Vote: Pesco (L-2)

still

FoS: Empking

.

[Juls]

Empking, are you even in this game?

Have you said anything all day?

Yes & Yes.

You?

Did zwets still Empking's password? Are you post restricted?

[Juls]

@mod: Missed opportunity!....I want some Michael Jackson lyrics!

You mean like what's up there now?~ ~Vi

[Juls]

screwed by the mod... /sigh

I was only following Rule 21~ ~Vi

[Juls]

Role restriction doesn't indicate alignment but nice try.

[Juls]

Role restriction doesn't indicate alignment but nice try.

I mentioned alignment when?
Do you think trying to fish people's alignment is scummy?
Are you trying to subtly imply that your role fishing was town-like?

It's very town-like. I am trying to determine if you are being a complete idiot, are active lurking, or post restricted. Right now I am leaning toward scum idiot.

[Juls]

Do I think alignment fishing is scummy? Um no...that is called scum hunting. When I asked about role restriction you said I was role-fishing. I was not. I was simply looking to see if you had a reason for being so short and useless.

Why do I think rolefishing is a good thing?...that is a misrep. I do not think rolefishing is a good thing and you trying to cast that on me seems to be a pathetic attempt to throw attention toward me.

Am I scum? No.

Do I think insults are good cases? My case on you is not about insults. It is about you being useless and therefore antitown. Now that I know you are antitown I am trying to figure out if you are scum.

So, I think as weak as these questions are that you have to be deflecting scum.

Unvote, vote Empking

[Juls]

Guys, I am going on vacation on Tuesday so I have been a little busy this weekend getting ready for my trip but I will post a summary post/vote tonight. I have not thoroughly read since my last post (just skimming at best). And hasdgfas, I hope your dumbfoundedness in your last post is disingenuous.

[Juls]

I am somewhat suspicious of Juls and how she seems to prefer lynching empking over pesco.

I voted Empking first because it seemed like a lazy vote. I wanted to draw a response out of him, and get a better feel for what his motivations were. Then, I voted Pesco because it was looking like that was the best way to go. But, Empking, outdid himself yet again with his rolefishing comments and that is why I switched back to him. So, in summary, Pesco=Scummy=Empking...got it? Good.

But in other news, I love how your post 204 fingers just about everyone...good work.

Re: Empking 219: Holy crap Empking...you suck...You just completely suck. Here's the thing. If you are scum, you are playing terribly. You are not even TRYING to be pro-town. If you are town, you are playing terribly. You are not even TRYING to be pro-town. Only thing you could be is jester. It's just too blatant and Vi did say there may be jesters.

unvote

I'd say Juls is more UTR, in an unreadable kind of way. There's no dirt on her, but we wouldn't want her to start slacking just because nobody is noticing.

I apologize. I just had a game end so hopefully I will have a bit more time for this one (after my V/LA). As stated earlier, I am preparing for a vacation. With that said:

mod: V/LA from Tuesday until the following Monday. I will be around very briefly but probably only enough to update my games I am modding...I'm going to Disney World!

Oh, and I am a miller, not that it matters at this point.

So...lets see. Since I have become quiet the pro at playing Miller (hush Vi, I hear you laughing!)...Let me just say that there are two ways to play Miller. 1) You claim first post or 2) you act as protown as possible to draw the night kill. You sir have done neither. So...lets keep reading to see what everyone else thinks.

Oh look...X in 235 agrees with me. Good Posting! Err...I guess I agree with him since he posted it first.

OK...will give PP approximately 20 hours to post some flavor and then I am dropping the hammer.

[Juls]

Yeah...hammer time.

I seem to recall Vi saying the music was from the 70's and 80's. Backstreet Boys were in diapers. I also don't see Vi as a Backstreet Boys kinda gal unless she just wanted all scum to be hideous.

vote: PP

[Juls]

Juls, can you explain what the difference in Empking's play in this game is to where you have seen him before. Also, can you link the game(s) where you have played with him or seen him play.

I am on vacation but I will answer quickly. Go to my wiki and look for the Vengeful game moderated by Plum (this internet connection is craptacular). He replaced in. I didn't always agree with him (but I was scum) and I thought he at least put forth an effort. Aside from that I moderated a mish mash game in which he played and he was active so I have no reason to think that Empking is "always like this".

This is probably my last post until Monday.

[Juls]

Can we hold the phone a bit on empking. Vi stated in her rules there may be Jesters and Empking seems to be trying very hard to get lynched.

I have skimmed the game Juls gave as her experience with emp and he did seem to be posting more. However looking though Juls wiki I see she has played another game with emp here where he was basically quick lynched on day one for not making much sense.

You are right, I forgot Empking was in that game. That also reminded me that he was also in my newbie game a LONG time ago. Both times lynched D1 but like you said, contributed more heavily.

[Juls]

Can we hold the phone a bit on empking. Vi stated in her rules there may be Jesters and Empking seems to be trying very hard to get lynched.

Did you REALLY have to bring this up?

If he's a jester, FUCK IT. I'd rather lynch him sooner than later. He can enjoy his victory with the stupidest fucking role alive.

+1 scumpoint for Juls.

So scum are more likely to want to save a jester? That makes tons of sense. I also brought it up once before, glad you were paying attention.

Further, if you are trying to claim I am his scumbuddy don't you think I went at him a little hard on D1?

I think Empking is a good lynch if we don't have any other options, jester or not. But, I would like to explore more options.

[Juls]

My day one activity:

VP Baltar: joke vote. I pulled back when it got a bit too serious for my taste.

Empking: His vote on VP seemed scummy, he wasn't contributing.

Pesco: I thought his vote on VP seemed scummy but then I switched because he made as strange statement about finding links between ek/VP. It seemed like smoke and mirrors trying to lead the town.

PP: The miller claim didn't fit into the ways I have been led to believe are appropriate to play it but then he claimed Backstreet Boys. I was under the impression that this was 70's/80's so it was out of place.


And by the way you are misrepping me here. You said I had been arguing Empking most of the day before I voted Pesco. In the very same post I tralked about my problems with pesco's linking ek/VP. During the posts between my Empking vote and Pesco vote I did not argue with Empking or try to convince anyone to switch their vote to him. Prior to my vote on Empking I did not discuss him in any serious manner.

[Juls]

has...you need to FoS the mod then...

Also, why did you feel the need to explain your reasons for being on each of the wagons you were on yesterday when I only asked you why you switched your vote to Pesco?

If you guys want to lynch someone who could potentially be a Jester fine.

Vote: Empking

@VP: my cold feet about Empking was based on his pattern of behavior (trying to get lynched). You can't determine a pattern until there are enough posts to do so. But it appears people want his head on a plate and I am happy to oblige. I personally would NOT want a Jester to win even if it is a co-win but if that is what the rest of you want so be it.

[Juls]

oops....EBWOP

The mod quote should be:

26) Theme Game Disclaimer (stolen from someone): I may include Jesters, Lynchers, Cults, Survivors, Vanilla Townies, and other such roles in this setup - and you will like it.

[Juls]

So why is it that I am scummy for mentioning something that is clearly stated in the rules. If we are going by that logic then lets FoS you for asking a question about a power role in the rules. Knowing the rules is scummy.

[Juls]

Also, why did you feel the need to explain your reasons for being on each of the wagons you were on yesterday when I only asked you why you switched your vote to Pesco?

The reason I explained all my votes is because you mentioned I was on "all major wagons" so I explained those as well.

[Juls]

you're missing my point. I know there could be a Jester. I don't care. I want people who are scummy to be dead. Who cares if that means they "win"?

Fine. We disagree on this point. I like to win and prevent all others not on my team from winning. But you have yet to explain how mentioning Jester is scummy.

[Juls]

Where was this concern about Jesters yesterday?

Look at my iso 21. It was yesterday. For your convenience the specific quote:

Re: Empking 219: Holy crap Empking...you suck...You just completely suck. Here's the thing. If you are scum, you are playing terribly. You are not even TRYING to be pro-town. If you are town, you are playing terribly. You are not even TRYING to be pro-town. Only thing you could be is jester. It's just too blatant and Vi did say there may be jesters.

------------------

Wow. What are your exact reasons for voting emp? “Because everyone else wants to” doesn't work for me at all. What happened to the "other options"?

My reasons for voting Empking is that he has not been contributing and has been jumping on wagons with little to no reason. I personally see his actions as someone who WANTS to get lynched. And while I don't particularly like the idea of sharing a victory with a third party I get that others don't share this opinion. I admittedly have zero experience playing with Jesters so the acceptable strategies for dealing with them are foreign to me.

3) Who is topping your list right now?

Empking is by far the most scummy but we have been over that. I am also seeing some similarities with VP Baltar that I saw in our previous game where he was scum but I will need to reread to be more definitive on this. I was on vacation and have just been responding as I go. I need to do a front to back read to get a better feel. Unfortunately that won't come until later this week because while I was on vacation I also got behind on work and school so you guys will have to bare with me while I catch up.

[Juls]

Still haven't caught up and likely won't be able to until Sunday. Just an FYI. If you will give me the courtesy of letting me get caught up before lynching me I would appreciate it.

[Juls]

Had to work at school all day I will write up a post tomorrow as promised.

[Juls]

Finished my read...I still have to put it in a coherant post. Expect my post within the next couple hours.

unvote

So no one hammers before my post.

[Juls]

My notes are organized by players and some of it may be redundant but I did a fresh reread so I apologize. I have at least a few notes on everyone but I am only going to hit the big notes being that we are so close to deadline. This has also taken me a bit longer than I had hoped because midway through my daughter has decided to test my patience so I have had to show her who is boss.

elvis_knits

My initial impression of ek was town. I didn't have a problem with her attack on VP. It felt genuine. But there are some things I started noticing later.

Anyway, I see a possible connection between image and X, and also a connection between pesco and juls. Also FL possible connection to pesco/juls, for similar reasons as I see juls with pesco. This is sort of unimportant until one of these people pops up scum. I don't present it as evidence against any of them, but just for later use if it becomes pertinent.

Just to condence this post ek says Pesco/Tubby, image, X, FL, Juls are possible scum. She says it isn't "evidence" but seriously come on...thats 5 of 11 possible players she sees as scum. I have further problems with the fact that Empking and VP aren't on this list and they are high on mine.

If he didn't have anything to hide, he should have said backstreet boys from the beginning, and also should have put his lyrics up when asked for flavor. Anyway, it's done now.

What would lyrics have changed?

====================================

Empking

I didn't really make any new notes on Empking in this read. I still find his actions to be begging for a lynch. But I do want to explain my position on Jesters.

I have been in very few games where the mod explicitly states there may be a Jester in the game. Therefore I am keeping it in the back of my head. That said, I have never been in a game where there actually was a jester. So when people are telling me it is ok to lynch a jester and nobody seems to have a problem with this, I will defer to the general opinion until I get more experience with it. Same with playing Miller. I have been miller twice now and I now feel confident I could play it better if I received the role again. If Empking does turn out to be Jester (or anyone does) in this game I will take a lessons learned out of this to ignore Jesters in general and if I suspect someone is then just lynch them. I still don't agree with it but why stick my neck out there and have people think I am scum because I like my team to be the sole-winner. That will just distract us from winning because attention will be on me. So that was my thought process and why I went back to voting Empking.

I see Empking has claimed Right Said Fred. I am indifferent to this claim. I am not really sure flavor is telling us anything in this game.

====================================

Forbiddanlight

Much like ek, FL lists 5 suspects in one post in post 209. Four she wants to vig and one that some how falls second on her lynch list. Not sure I understand that. Why does someone deserve a lynch but not a vig kill? How does one obtain that status?


====================================

X

FL shouldn't have voted Empking that early, considering how Empking usually is.

This whole arguement that X and ek (and possibly others?) are trying to put out that Empking is always scummy therefore he should be ignored is ridiculous. I think FL said it and I agree that even people who are generally scummy players roll scum sometimes and Empking seems to be worse than usual this game.

====================================

VP Baltar

Saved the best for last...

On the topic of slow activity, however, I would move that the scum would be going especially out of their way to lurk in this game since it would actually have an effect upon the deadline. To that end, I move that lurking not be tolerated in the slightest for this game.

One of your first serious posts. This seems like an attempt to appear townie. However, I can't really see you taking a hard stance on lurking after this.

I didn't say it was good logic to softclaim on D1. Also, I didn't know asking a couple questions to better understand someone's reasoning and to actually get the game moving in an actual direction is considered "pushing it so hard".

Explain how I forced others to talk about it? I never asked for anyone else's opinion on the matter. In fact, you're the one who continues to bring it up after I've answered your questions for nearly two pages to the point where you are asking the same questions again. Does that mean you are now trying to get people to "give more information about who might be power roles and who might not be"?

In rereading the VP/ek arguement I don't see where ek was pushing this fight anymore than VP was. I particularly don't like how VP plays the innocent victim in post 87. Of course you forced people to talk about it the minute you voted has. Most people noticed his comment but you shined a flashlight on it. Of course that is going to start conversation. Further, you contradict yourself. In post 66 you claim that you were getting the game moving and in 87 you act like you didn't invite opinions on the matter.

(I realize I am flipping between 3rd and 2nd person speech here, sorry).

I never said I wanted him lynched as far as I recall. And in fact, once he answered my questions I pulled off of him immediately. I would like you to quote me where I wanted him lynched.

The problem was you left your vote on has while saying you believed that he just wanted an explanation of the rules. Why did you feel the need to let your vote ride there?

Once again, you appear to be trying to have it both ways simultaneously.

This is a misrepresentation of what Pesco was saying. I read what Pesco was saying as there are things that could change his opinion during night but that if we lynch one of you and you flip scum we have a lot to go on by ways of finding links; not necessarily that you two are linked because of it. I realize I said something different on my first read through but I will fully admit that my vote on Pesco was me playing lazy. I had a lot going on during that time. I had my anniversary weekend followed by getting ready for and going on vacation. If I get lynched because of that I will have to accept that but I would rather this be seen as how I felt when paying attention in the event of my untimely death.

So, she's posting frequently and making good posts, but because people aren't following up on what she says you think there is the potential she could be scum?

Another misrepresentation by VP. I don't see anywhere that has says flight could be scum for this. IIRC this was cleared up but this just speaks to the way you are misrepresenting people in this game.

Logic Point, Juls!

This is minor but I have difficulty accepting someone who pays me a compliment in mafiascum as sincere. I immediately see things like this as buddying and makes me suspicious of the person paying the compliment. I felt this way about Vi in Cowboy Bebop briefly.

Hold the phone. I thought Juls had never played with him before or something? If this is true, then Juls definitely needs another look because I think one game with Emp is enough to understand you can't expect any better out of him. Do you know which game this was Sotty?

This just seems so over the top. Really? This changes your opinion that significantly of my comments on Empking D1? You follow with...

I'm a bit torn on you not knowing Emp's meta because, well, that is like someone saying they don't know zwet's meta. These are people who are generally mentioned together and their reputations tend to proceed them in most every game I've seen or played with them in. If you were newer I could understand, but you've been around long enough for me to believe you would have at least heard of Emp and his awful play.

For the record. I am completely aware of his meta. Completely. At no point did I pretend that I was not aware that he tends to be useless and short. But both he and zwets aren't this completely useless all the time. What I see in this game is rebellion and lazy, nonchalant posting. Even shorter than normal. That is why I initially asked about post restrictions. I considered asking him to post a 3-4 paragraph post (not quoted) that he cut and paste from the internet but I know his type and he gets off on pissing people off. I knew my efforts would be futile so I decided not to.

So you are saying that you'd be good with following through with the Emp lynch right now without hesitation?

Anytime VP starts a sentence like this I immediately am suspicious. If you start a sentence with "So you are saying..." it feels like you are setting them up and putting words in their mouth. This example is no exception. FL was making a point that I thought myself during this reread. Why does being a typical scummy player regardless of alignmnet preclude this person from never being scum. No where did FL say that she wants to lynch without hesitation. You are misrepresenting yet again.

Then, when I ask her who her other options would be, she ignores my question. I call her on backing off of emp easily and she is quick to throw her vote back on. Her flipping with the slightest bit of questioning looks scummy to me.

I did not ignore the question. I thought it was pretty clear I was V/LA and was only posting quick short posts. EVERYWHERE on the site, not just here. I simply didn't have the time to do analysis of others at that point. I also explain my switch to Empking earlier in this post (see the Empking section).

Because she could now be trying to distance herself from a townie lynch. Obviously, hypo-scum Juls has already been on one townie lynch and would potentially not want to be on another because late game wagon analysis would implicate her as scum for this.

Does everyone else not see that VP is setting me up as tomorrows lynch no matter WHAT Empking flips? If Empking flips scum, I am his scumbuddy. If Empking flips town, I am trying to distance myself from a townie lynch. Classic.

====================================

Again, I apologize for my admittedly lazy play up to this point. I got a little busier than I expected to. I hope to participate at a stronger level for the duration of the game. For those I didn't mention, like I said, I have some notes on them but this post is pretty long and some may or may not be worth mentioning until there is more to add to it.

My gut tells me to vote VP but I know we are very close to deadline and I still see Empking as scummy. I am going to sleep on it before deciding where to place my vote. I would like to hear other peoples opinions of what I have said before deadline.

mod: is there any mechanism for an

extension

jolt to the battery meter?

The battery meter won't go up.
The deadline, however, extends itself. Remember, activity-based deadlines. ~Vi

TL;DR: Read my post, I spent a lot of time on it!

[Juls]

Saying over and over that I "missed" things in my reread is a mudslinging tactic I would expect from scum.

I did not miss where you said you "like to have your vote on someone all the time" I just don't buy it. A quick glance of the vote counts in Cowboy Beebop shows me that a good portion of D2 and D3 you were not voting anyone. It's not a huge point of contention but noteworthy that your claimed stance is not your M.O.

When I said you were misrepresenting Pesco I was noting that your comment brought up two quotes that you were trying to paste together as a contradiction. When the two statements were not a contradiction. Pesco was asked if he thought both you two were scum and he left the option open that you two

could

be scum together but I got the impression he thought it could be one or the other. I have no problem with this sort of conjecture on D1.

So, you are saying I'm scum because of a tell you read against a town player in Cowboy Bebop? That's some pretty sound logic.

There you go again with that "So you are saying". First of all, I pointed out that it was minor but I do find it suspicious when someone compliments me. I later found out that Vi was agreeing with me (i.e. supporting my role claim) because her role also had the same format (e.g. Corrupt Townie Name). And I didn't imply you are scum because of it although your hypersensitivity is noted.

If you were town you'd be looking at who he is voting for and when, and try to actually determine his alignment rather than just saying 'oh, hey, this guy isn't posting very much. he must be scum.'

Now who is selectively reading? As I said in my previous post, I made no

new

notes on Empking. That does not take away from what I have already said about him. You say I am not looking at who he is voting and why but if you look at my first vote on him I voted him because he voted you with only the claim of "rolefishing" and being middle of the wagon. And all his votes have been parroting what someone else said. Lack of scum hunting is a big scumtell to me. Even Empking scum hunts in other games even if it is unconventional.

Actually she answered that question in the affirmative. More things missed on this reread you were doing. tsk tsk.

It doesn't matter how she answered after the fact. The point was that isn't what she said and you twisted it into that. Just because FL didn't mind this characterization doesn't mean that is what she said initially.

Because it certainly would have taken you forever to name people you thought were suspicious, which was all I asked you to do.

You don't get it. It's not that I didn't have time to write a few names down. It was that I was not paying close enough attention to have any other suspects. I needed to do this reread to form some more solid opinions.

Actually, I would prefer you died today. Hence the vote.

From what I can tell, every vote or suspicion on me has to do with 1) my interaction with Empking and 2) my change of stance on Jesters. Yet you don't even comment on my explanation of my behavior concerning these two things.

Vote: VP Baltar

. I am willing to vote Empking if deadline is approaching (under 10%) but VP is certainly top of my list right now so this is where my vote should be.

[Juls]

You using one game as meta against me is ridiculously narrow-sighted. Also, it doesn't even make sense. You are saying I did not to have my vote out at certain points in that game as scum, but the fact that I do have my vote out makes me scummy. I suggest you look at some of my town games if you plan to actually use this as an argument.

You are mixing apples and oranges. I know that you were in that game so that is the game I went back to look at. I'm not saying VP-scum doesn't keep his vote on someone or VP-town doesn't keep his vote on someone. Your claim is you like to keep your vote on someone. I expect that to mean that VP-alignment-independent always leave your vote on someone. I am saying you claiming it as your M.O. was a convienant excuse. But this argument has gone down such a side path. My initial point was that you aren't really pushing lurkers even though you seemed to feel so strongly about it in the beginning.

Or it looks like chaining lynches, which I was under the impression you had a problem with. Isn't that what you said I was doing with you and Emp? Why the double standard for Pesco?

Please see my post 404. I admitted that I wasn't playing to my full potential due to outside circumstances.

Get over yourself. It's just how I talk. It is a phrase that is seeking clarification. I'm not asking rhetorical questions with a preconceived conclusion. When I read what a player writes I interpret it a certain way, and if I feel it could be interpreted an alternative way I will ask something along these lines for clarification. I fail to see how that is scummy.

First...you know me from last game. I do not appreciate the "Get over yourself" part and I think you know that. I would prefer we have a civil conversation and that to me is a personal attack. This is me, asking you as politely as possible, to keep the discussion civil.

Second, let me try to explain what I see. I listen to Sean Hannity. I know...this is a lynch worthy offense in of itself, I am not republican but I live in the south and enjoy torture...hence me playing mafia. But, I hear day in and day out Sean Hannity say phrases like "So you are saying that our troops who fight for our freedom and make the world a better place are murders?". Now clearly, that is NOT what the caller said but some people come out of that going...wow, liberals hate our troops. So I am seeing a very similar thing with you here. You are planting the ideas that you want others to see because most of us read a game and don't take notes all the time. When it comes time to lynch, say FL for example...you could go back and say something like "On D2 FL wanted to lynch Empking without hesitation...I knew she was scum!". That is what I am trying to get across. You have planted that seed to water later on.

Also, why is 5 players too many to suspect? I know they can't all be scum, but I have to question and pressure everyone who seeme like they might be scum. What is the problem?

It's more the fact that you have 5 players that you saw as scummy and I know that at least two I see/saw as scummy weren't on your list. If we are on completely different pages it makes me wander if we hold the same alignment.

And I did not suspect empking at the time, but I do now. I am trying to lynch him, meanwhile you are trying everything you can to vote/lynch somebody other than empking. If empking is so high on your list of suspects, why have you just unvoted him?

No, I have every intention of voting Empking if we get close to deadline. Empking is #2 on my list right now. But I think VP is scum. I unvoted Empking so that I could complete my post and decided after I want to vote VP right now.

So, am I the only one who thinks it's really weird how Juls long post had a bunch of parts where she attacks people for their treatment of empking (like they didn't think he was scummy when she did), but now she's voting VP and attacking the people who want empking lynched?

Other than VP I don't think I really attacked anybody in my post. I have some mild suspicions of you but it's not like I am beating the ek drum here. I really am anxious for the reveal at the end of this game because I am baffled at how difficult it is for me to get anyone to understand my points. I feel like because I went V/LA and talked about Jesters that nothing else I say matters. But my goal here is if I do get lynched that I leave behind enough information for the town to see my intentions were sincere.

Juls admitting she is fully aware of emp's site wide meta makes my skin crawl. Juls what do you think of emp's play today so far? Better, worse, the same as yesterday?

About the same. I haven't seen anything to convince me he is trying any harder. I want to point out though that I have a pretty quick temper and people like zwets / Empking rub me the wrong way. I have played numerous games with zwets where I have voted him early and often. So I often take this stance of being annoyed enough by these type of players to vote them.

[Juls]

D1 wagon analysis has turned up something interesting:
Both VPB and Juls never voted PP at all. Juls wasn't around much near the end of D1, which explains that, whereas VPB claimed to want to do a reread before the day was cut short by the hammer. As a result, I'm starting to think that VPB might be Town, given that PP was perfect lynchbait at that time and a vote would not be seen as strange at all around this time in D1.

I actually hammered PP. I would have voted him immediately but VPB had asked for a "flavor" claim so I thought I would respect that. His flavor claim didn't help his case though.

[Juls]

This is pretty short sighted. If you and Elvis had the same alignment that doesn't automatically mean you would suspect the same people.

What part of mild suspicion am I not being clear about? I am getting irritated that Sotty7 and EK are trying to make it out like I am on a witch hunt against her. When someone is on a different page then me all together they deserve a second look and watching. If I were voting her for these reasons I could understand the argument.

emp has been more active today than he was yesterday. Weren't you pushing him yesterday for being short, useless and unhelpful? Looking back also for a little rolefishing. What about his play today is so bad to you?

Posting more often and providing more content are two different things and I suspect you know that. His play today is the same as yesterday. Hopping on my wagon, not explaining anything, not caring at all, being a total waste of a player.

Also like Sotty said, just because our suspects don't match shouldn't make you think I'm scum. It should be deeper than that, based on my reasoning or something.

When did I say you were scum? Seriously...the misreps in this game are overflowing. So let me get this straight. You can note suspicions and links of 5 players in one post but if I mention a suspicion of you then I am short sighted and not logical. Quite a double standard there.

I don't understand the reasoning on VP. It seems party based on a meta of him?

My biggest problem with VP is the way he is twisting what people are saying and molding it to fit whatever he wants to push.

It's just strange for you to vote empking and call him scum, then throw doubt on the lynch talking about jesters, then revote him under pressure, then jump off again based on a weak case on VP. That is the way I see your behavior, and it reads like either you trying to save empking, or avoid blame for the lynch.

Maybe you will understand it if I say it in a different color

I will vote Empking if we get close to deadline...happily

but I am going to have this conversation about VP and you and Sotty misrepresenting everything I say because I think it is important for people to see this after since you guys have set up my lynch for tomorrow.

That may be, but my point still stands unless you are rescinding yours. If you are going to levy the accusation of me chaining lynches I would like to know why you didn't attack Pesco for this.

The way I understood Pesco on my reread is that he/she was saying if we lynched one of you we would find links to other players. I didn't see it as he/she was trying to lynch you both. Maybe I misunderstood but that is what I took from it.

Juls, can you explain what made me jump so far ahead in scumminess for you, as opposed to Emp who you suspected all day yesterday and have said hasn't improved his play today? Do you feel that any part of your case is OMGUS or residual suspicion from Cowboy Bebop?

See pink text above. I still think Empking is scummy but in my opinion you have been twisting words and planting seeds all day. I see no reason for town to do this. And come on...really? Why in the world would I be suspicious of you based on Bebop? I am not dumb. I'm not even sure anymore what you think I am OMGUSing.

there is nothing wrong with republicans I happen to be one

Some of my closest friends and family are republicans but when you live in a sea of them it is difficult to have opposing opinions. I am not a democrat either for the record. I have voted both ways in the past.

And now we return to our regularly scheduled program.

Juls has not impressed as of yet, when we lynch empking and if he flips scum I will be taking a hard look at juls and then you all might be graced with the rare oppurtunity to read an acutall case brought forth by me

I call B.S. Let's see that case now. Otherwise you setting up tomorrow's lynch so blatantly is probably the scummiest thing I have seen this entire game. First...only scum are sure they are going to be here tomorrow and second...why not make the case today? Sounds like you want to make sure you know the plan with your buddies.

Unvote, Vote Tubby

[Juls]

Some of you are being down-right stubborn. If you are town, open your mind and look elsewhere, holy <curse word>. Hopefully tomorrow I will have some information for you before you lynch me. I am done defending myself for playing the game and scum-hunting. Good job scum because you are certainly winning this little battle. Seriously? Not one person can see I am town? I know you aren't all scum but when we lose I am sure it will get blamed on me and what pisses me off more than anything is I have no f'n clue what I did that was so scummy.

Unvote, Vote Empking

[Juls]

I am so shocked to see this.

I don't see much way around me being lynched today so town might want to take note of who is pushing me hard. I predict VP will say "well she was so scummy, I had to vote her" after my flip. I will quiet honestly be disappointed if VP turns out to be town because I think he is better than this.

Also note that VP said he was "getting town vibes" from me in one of his last posts of the day. Yet he comes out guns a blazin' on me today. No reason not to put my vote where I think scum is

Vote: VP

FYI, no need dragging it out to L-1. I am a Vanilla Townie, the Police. My flavor is De Do Do Do De Da Da Da. I made a last ditch effort to get the night kill to prevent another mislynch by claiming I might get night information in my last post of yesterday. It was a weak attempt but an attempt nontheless.

[Juls]

Since most people have indicated their intent to lynch me you have set yourself up in a nice situation again with the way you word your inquiry about my suspicions of others. I think what tubby said was scummy but I had some better feelings about Pesco so right now you are still top of the list.

And again, for the record, my case on you is based on how you have misrepresented what other people have said and molded things to fit your case. Remember, town, that VP was the one that gave an out for lynching me no matter how Empking flipped. And it will be interesting to see how tubby will react considering he said he would make a case based on Empking flips.

And the reason I claimed was because it is inevitible that I will be put at L-1 given people's sentiments yesterday.

Let's have a hypothetical here VP. It's Day 4, I have been lynched and I flip Vanilla Townie...your reaction...let's hear it!

[Juls]

Quote please where I even mentioned your lynches in relation to one another.

Here:

How is Juls' stance toward Empking scummy if Empking is town?

Because she could now be trying to distance herself from a townie lynch. Obviously, hypo-scum Juls has already been on one townie lynch and would potentially not want to be on another because late game wagon analysis would implicate her as scum for this.

==========

Do you honestly feel you have not acted scummy this game?

I have owned my mistakes. See the paragraph in my pbpa under Empking. I have also admitted to not playing to my utmost while on vacation. Sorry, you guys weren't #1 on my to do list while at Disney World. When the game is over I hope you all spare me the blame-fest. I recognize my mistakes.

claiming she was trying to draw the night kill.

Explain why a Vanilla townie trying to draw the night kill is scummy?

Either we have a very lazy town here that is just jumping on me because I am an easy target or scum is pushing me...simple as that. I will be vindicated by my flip. I am so over this game (sorry Vi ).

[Juls]

Have been studying for a test. I will post responses to all I need to respond to tonight.

[Juls]

OK, what we have here is a failure to communicate and I am really not sure how to overcome it. I have really never had this much trouble conveying my thoughts than in this game.

First, I have been lynched in exactly zero games (not counting War in Heaven 2 which was nightless). So having to defend myself like this is a new experience to me. I have only had to do it really as a miller which is an inherently scummy role. When I started playing mafia I quit shortly after because I didn't like being suspected. When I came back I made the commitment to work through these situations because it's the only way I will learn so here I am...learning. My only request of you is that you step back and entertain the possibility that I am town. I actually somewhat want to get lynched at this point so that town can get over me and move on to who is really scum. I feel I am distracting the town from finding scum.

================

Now...on to responding to your questions/comments:

Juls, I think you've been very single-minded over the course of the game...mostly concentrating on Empking, VPB, and your tubby and PP votes were largely unexplained. The PP vote was somewhat explained, but only by a post a day earlier saying that he would drop the hammer. I read over the VPB and Juls argument overNight, and thought that VPB made more sense, and was being accused of misrepresentation when he actually wasn't.

I am not trying to be single-minded. I feel like VPB has twisted not only my words but other people's words. My fear is that I drop my case on VP and he slips by without question. But I do admit I question it now that so many people have called me stupid for making it (in so many words). I also honestly could not justify Empking's play in any way other than wanting to be lynched. I have a history of not liking players like this (zwets, killa_seven are a couple others I have had issues with). But even after playing with Empking it just felt like he wanted to be lynched. Now I see he is just a troll and I gave him attention. Shame on me. My comment on tubby stands. I felt that saying "oh I will make a case on you tomorrow" felt off. I did however get better feelings from pesco.

Juls, what do you think of Truant, Cow, and Sotty?

Truant/image - image mostly lurked which is never a good thing. other than that I don't have anything I can sit here and put in quotes and point to as something I found scummy about him. The game I recently played in voting patterns came into play and just a quick look over his voting pattern I notice that he really doesn't put his vote out there much. He only joke voted and voted for PP. So, it may be worth looking into a little more. Truant's vote on me with a piggybacked argument is also worth noting.

Cow - I lean town at the moment. The only thing I really noted on him on my reread was his case on image was a little weak (saying that sarcasm tags were scummy).

Sotty - I lean town on Sotty as well. She has been looking for scum, asking questions, seems to be scum-hunting.

it's a cop out. At least try to defend yourself instead of claiming.

I feel like that is all I have been doing is defending myself. When I made my claim I already had 2 votes on me. I have been studying for an exam so I wasn't sure how fast it would go or how much time I would have to devote to the game so I might as well get it out there.

@ Juls-I don't think the quote you cite is really me chaining your lynch to Empking's alignment. I gave a hypothetical reason I thought could be valid as to why you would unvote Empking for seemingly little to no reason. If I had been pushing for Empking's lynch yesterday, then I would say that you have a valid point, but I most certainly was not.

On reread I see that you were saying you thought Empking was town previously. The quote stuck out to me because you called me "hypo" scum and I had remembered you saying it was based on Empking flipping town. You were arguing that I didn't want to be on a townie mislynch while others were arguing I was his scumbuddy. I think I may have crossed some wires here.

You later claim that you unvoted because you were worried about him being a Jester, which is strange since you have apparently never even played with a Jester before. Did you assume a Jester lynch automatically ended the game? If so, why?

Never playing in a game with a jester does not make me oblivious that the role exists. I am aware of the role, I am aware of the role's purpose. Vi's rules clearly point out the role is possible in the game. I have always been told when Jester speculation has occured that the mod will say if there is the possibility of Jester. I was clearly wrong on it. I also did not assume the Jester lynch ended the game for two reasons 1) I don't think that Vi would sit in the queue for 3-4 months to end the game so suddenly and 2) she, in so many words said it wouldn't in response to whoever asked if it would end the game. I have explained this now every which way from Sunday. I would like to move on from it.

You pushed emp on day one for basically being emp. You then hammered PP and when day two started you wanted to “hold the phone” on emp, suddenly worried he was a jester. You then built a case on VP that no one really agreed with and as soon as Tubby expressed suspicions of you, you went ahead and voted for him too. Just throwing away your case on VP almost as if you didn't believe it fully yourself.

OK that's fine. I accept everything you say in this quote except the part where you say I threw away my case on VP. Last I checked, most games of mafia have more than one scum. Just because I voted someone else does not mean that I forgot about VP. And a vote is a lot more powerful than saying "I think what you said was scummy" so I used my vote. I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all.

You keep trying to place the blame of your play on anyone but yourself. Calling the town lazy, saying you are over this game. I can't see as anything but a desperation tactic at this point.

I don't want to act like I am not at blame here. Like I have said, I have made mistakes. But, I do think the town and scum have focused in on me and don't really have a plan for when I flip town. It's getting kinda late in the game to be mislynching so often and from what I can see there really aren't anymore leads. A question to everyone, when I flip town, because I will, who are you going after?

===============

If I am still around, everyone should know the next 10 or so days for me are going to be pretty busy as I wrap up the semester. Just an FYI. I will be around but if I don't get back to someone immediately that's why. I would like to do another reread of the game but I think my time is limited here...

[Juls]

I'm not quite sure what to think, but the sense of utter innocence has been mollified.

I think my presence is distracting from us finding scum. People are focusing on me and only me and not looking at anyone else.

plus i do not see the police as a protoen role to have in this game.

That's weak. Really.

[Juls]

I have to agree that the police sounds weird. You'd think that like, the police might be an investigative role or something? Not just vanilla? So it doesn't really match up for me.

I'm not basing juls' scumminess on that, but it certainly doesn't make her any more credible, IMO.

I agree with you on this. I don't think it would be an investigation role but it certainly doens't fit with the other vanilla townie flip. I mean Right Said Fred and The Police aren't exactly in the same league. But that is what my flavor name is.

Tubby...you mentioned you looked over your "notes"...could you share some of those notes with us?

[Juls]

I have been studying...will post tonight. Sorry.

[Juls]

That's a reach X.

[Juls]

My lynch is in the books. They just want to have more conversation. Yet they aren't talking that much.

[Juls]

I don't get why people replace in if they don't want to make an effort to catch up. It's the first thing I do when I replace in.

[Juls]

Sorry...I'm not. I have let you guys talk though. I think scum would have self-hammered already.

[Juls]

WIFOM to the rescue!

You know, sometimes it is what it is. I am vanilla.

Unvote, Vote: Juls

Take a hard look at VP/ek/tubby/hero. I concede I may be wrong about VP because pretty much everyone is convinced he is town but me.

With that said, let me leave you with these parting words:

Roxanne, you don't have to put on the red light
Those days are over
You don't have to sell your body to the night
Roxanne, you don't have to wear that dress tonight
Walk the streets for money
You don't care if it's wrong or if it's right

Roxanne, you don't have to put on the red light
Roxanne, you don't have to put on the red light
Put on the red light, put on the red light
Put on the red light, put on the red light
Put on the red light, oh

I loved you since I knew ya
I wouldn't talk down to ya
I have to tell you just how I feel
I won't share you with another boy
I know my mind is made up
So put away your make up
Told you once I won't tell you again it's a bad way

Roxanne, you don't have to put on the red light
Roxanne, you don't have to put on the red light
You don't have to put on the red light
Put on the red light, put on the red light

Sorry I was such a distraction town. It was not intentional.

[Juls]

HOLY CRAP I HATE YOU VP!

Ugh! And I hate all you who tried to make me seem like an idiot for thinking he was scum. I officially am going to have myself a win party all by myself. I win at finding VP-scum. Ugh....Ugh....Ugh....

Did I mention I hate you VP?


(all of the above is just silly ranting...)

[Juls]

Well I just finished the Haruhists QT. I am glad I could be such a source of amusement for you!

What sucks is you guys, by the end, had me convinced I was stupid and that was what sucked so bad for me. I hate feeling stupid.

[Juls]

I'm just glad that my bad bluff (crumbing a night action) caused you guys to waste a track on me. In all seriousness though, I was kicking myself for going after Empking. I have a history of hating players like that. It is something I have to work on. Also, something I do that a lot of people see as scummy for some reason is I am not too stuck in my ways to change my mind about something (like I did with Empking). You guys convinced me that I should just lynch him if I thought he might be a jester and so I conceded that was a good way to go. So changing my mind made me look even more scummy. Ugh...this game was real frustrating for me. VP, you said in your quicktopic I take things too personal...and I agree. I am trying to work through that.

[Juls]

Everything about this game was enjoyable, the setup, the flavor, the players and no huge walls of text. I feel bad about Juls, I know what it feels like to have no one listen to you no matter what you do, still it must give you some comfort that pretty much all of the scum were pushing for your lynch. I would defiantly want to play with you again.

Thank you. I appreciate that.