Mini 807 - Save the Mafia! (Game Over!)

[lobstermania]

/confirm

[lobstermania]

Vote: Wickedestjr

for touching all my rusty spoons!!

[lobstermania]

@lobstermania

umm...why do you have so many rusty spoons for Wickedestjr to touch?

My lawyer advised me not to respond to this question.

[lobstermania]

Personally, the re-vote looks like a way to appease the spotlight from the unvote and sink back into the folds. I think the only action this game by CanadianBovine that actually makes sense is his unvote. I'm going to

FoS: CanadianBovine

for trying to "fit back in" and shuck off some suspicion.

[lobstermania]

FoS lobster?

If I had waited one more minute to read the thread before posting, I might have changed my mind. His triumphant "look what I did" post #78 irritates me; I find it odd that canadianbovine takes the credit for the discussion his poorly planed actions have created. In all honesty, I think the recognition goes to ChadnelDelibird for calling canadianbovine out multiple times and asking very good questions.
I will

unvote

, but I'm going to hold off for a little bit longer before I vote again.

[lobstermania]

ebwop: ChannelDelibird!

[lobstermania]

Yeesh, come back and BAM pages to read. As far as the thing goes with canadian, i have seen the "nervous" player that nohand talked about, and maybe this is an exact case, but i am just as intrigued by lobster saying that canadian was trying to fit back in, so he fos's, and when asked about his Fos and then unvotes his random, saying

I will unvote, but I'm going to hold off for a little bit longer before I vote again.

that just doesnt sit well with me for some reason.

How so? I random voted Nohands, fos'd canadianbovine, and then unvoted nohands. That seems like a slow, but logical progression towards voting on someone who is actually worthy of a vote (like canadianbovine).
Does this help?

[lobstermania]

I disagree here. The vote is the most important tool of the town. Its use is pressure, something a FoS really doesn't do on any real level, and not using the vote, especially early on when there's a bigger margin before a lynch, means you're not pressuring any possible scum.

Lobstermania random voted, so it's clear he recognises that his vote can put pressure on people and maybe make scum trip up, so the fact that there is now someone he genuinely suspects means that he really should be using his vote to put pressure on CB. There's no reason why lobstertown shouldn't be voting CB at this time, but lobsterscum might well want to avoid a bandwagon on CBtown, or even be trying to keep the pressure off CBscum.

On Day 1, with so many votes needed to lynch, there's no need to be as cautious as that. You should pretty much be voting at all times on Day 1.

You bring up some interesting points. I didn't consider not-voting to be scummy, nor did I consider rushing a non-random vote to be town. To me, an FoS reads "you have one last shot at changing my mind before I vote." Personally, I think this is a good tool to use at times. I apologize if my pace isn't as quick as yours; I have a bad habit of acting impulsively and making bad decisions.

After re-reading and sleeping on it, I

would

like to

Vote: canadianbovine

, and here is my case:
Random votes Nohands, and then defends his "justifications" of pressure (just how does he type with no hands?!?).
The un-vote was silly, but ultimately could be justified.
The re-vote was straight out appealing to town.
The second un-vote and welcome speech was uncalled for.

[lobstermania]

at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite - lobster is appeasing the spotlight by voting after everyone gets on his case about it.

You are being a hypocrite.

I revoted him to invoke discussion and keep pressure on him.

Your second vote on nohands was just a reiteration of your random vote without justification.

Lobster votes Canadian in post 107, then when canadian mentions that lobster is voting agaisnt him to appease the crowd, lobster has been quiet since.

I had a feeling canadianbovine would accuse me for voting after being called out on not voting by ChannelDelibird. I FoS'd canadianbovine and unvoted, then summarized my case against him (yet I am still called a hypocrite?) and voted. In the middle of it I was questioned about my lack of a vote and my use of FoS. I feel like I addressed both of those issues in my post 107.
My vote on canadianbovine remains.

[lobstermania]

2nd vote -

An un-unvote is how i

try

to describe it.

Since discussion has started, we are quickly leaving the RVS, so this should help to bring us out of the RVS, as well as put non real pressure.

Try harder. I don't understand your reasoning using a vote as an unvote. Discussion was starting based off your unvote, so you re-vote the same person? That vote itself didn't end the RVS, since it was basically still a random vote.

On an unrelated side-note, I wanted to point out nohandtyper's #100 "lobster is fairly new." comment to ChannelDelibird since nohands and I were in our first newbie game together and CDB was our mod.

[lobstermania]

Perhaps it would be useful for us to come to a group consensus on definitions for what it means to "apply pressure," "FoS," "be at L-2" ect.

[lobstermania]

I didn't want to reveal my reasoning because I was hoping to draw it out a little longer and see who would jump the gun in pushing a case against me simply because I withheld my reasons for voting. Not exactly sure where it says one must lay out every point against someone before voting for them. Especially if they've already been covered multiple times (which, upon re-reading a few other posts against wolf, I discovered it had already been pointed out).

It is very opportunistic to vote someone without reasoning when they are under heat. Of course people are going to get on your case about it. To me, withholding evidence and backing yourself up by saying "well, it's already been posted," sounds like you jumped on a wagon and are now backtracking to find the case against Wolf.

So it appears that lobster is typically a quiet player.
@lobster - Who do you find the scummiest in this game right now? Who do you find the most pro-town?

I've just mentioned my views on xRECKONERx, but overall I'm concerned with CDB. Channel (while more experienced than some) seems to have taken the reigns of this game, pointing fingers and calling almost everyone out on something. While I appreciate the work he has put into the game, I fear it may lead people to follow his accusations blindly later on.
My opinion of the most town player in the game right now would probably be My Milked Eek. He is both an intelligent player and conservative with his votes. I think this is the direction we should all be moving in.

[lobstermania]

[My Milked Ekk] voted me because [he] wanted me to explain myself; [he] also had no real case against me, other than "That post was scummy". Completely disregarded all my other posts. [He] just hoped that one post would catch fire and wind up having me lynched.

So [he's] the one my "trap" ensnared

.

Unvote: canadianbovine
Vote: xRECKONERx

.
You can't create a scummy post and not expect people to call you out on it. Your justification that it was actually a fake vote to catch scum is bogus. Why is your vote still on wolf if you've blown the cover on your 20/20 expose?

[lobstermania]

Day 1 power role discussion? Fishing out a cop?

unvote, vote: qax

If xRECKONERx is a cop, he already fished himself out. Plus, DeathRowKitty brought up the idea of a N0 cop....so why is your vote on qax?

[lobstermania]

I think lobstermania meant that DeathRowKitty brought up the idea of a cop to begin with, at least that's what I imagined. @lobstermania, please confirm this if you can. I don't want to speak for you.

Thank you. DeathRowKitty did bring up the idea of xRx being a cop, and then both of you spring-boarded ideas of N0 cop off each other. I didn't read back far enough, my bad.

[lobstermania]

xRECKx, if I were in your shoes I would be more disappointed in myself than upset at the town. You are mad at people for doing exactly what you claimed you hoped they would. In addition, saying things like

I don't understand where all of this is coming from

and refering to the thread as

the sea of unreadable bullshit

it makes me if you even

deserve

to be upset. Asking the town to unvote you and then erupting like this make you seem desperate.
My vote remains until you prove yourself otherwise.

[lobstermania]

Okay, I

Unvote: xRECKONERx

I believe the claim. It seems like xRECKx is just a poor player with a few any ideas (kind of like myself).

@ xRECKx: Once you start playing the game, answering questions and providing info people are likely to believe you more.

[lobstermania]

@Town

: Sorry about this, but

I'm going to be V/LA till Tuesday at the earliest

.

I have a lot to respond to and more to comment on, but it would take too long to write the post, and I only have time right to post V/LA notices in the games I am active in. [....] I apologize that this is all I have time for.

Maybe it's just me, but does this post seem like an "I being suspected/voted, so I wont be here to answer questions" sort of post? I mean, maybe you'll honestly be gone, but there were a few important points brought up regarding your game. By not answering these before you leave, it seems a bit dodgy. [....]

aying you'll be gone seems VERY scummy to me.

Seriously?!?

FoS: Nohands

, you're smarter than that. If you look at qax's other game he posted the same thing. Try harder.

[lobstermania]

Looking at your calculations though, the amount of scum become:

Reckoner kills: .265
Reckoner doesnt kill: .269

or about 1/4 (very roughly). So by your calculations, it would be a wash either way, but slightly leaning toward not killing.

C'mon people, we need more opinions than just DRK's and mine here.

It seems to me that the more discussion we create about xRECKx's possible NK's only furthers my belief that he will be NK'd by the scum. I say xRECKx should just go for it, since he's got nothing to lose.

[lobstermania]

I'm going to Vote:

CoCo

, mostly for this "very" WIFOMy mess.
And also for thinking that wolframnhart's opinion is more interesting than his one post for the past seven days.

[lobstermania]

t seems to me that those who push to draw as much info from as many people as you and DRK have (before the end of day 1) are the ones to keep an eye on.

....because information gathering is clearly a scum-tell!

[lobstermania]

@Lobstermania: Without simply rewording the allegations others have leveled against me, please explain why you jumped in with such a contentless post after your vote. If information gathering is a scum tell, wouldn't that make everyone scum?

My post that "information gathering is a scumtell!" wasn't content-less at all but a jab at your accusation:

it seems to me that those who push to draw as much info from as many people as you and DRK have (before the end of day 1) are the ones to keep an eye on

I interpreted that to be "info gathering is a scumtell." You accused nohands and DRK of being scum for trying to squeeze content and info out of people (like you). It seems to me the town would benefit from having content from as many players as possible instead of the reverse. Perhaps you can explain what you *really* meant.

Well, considering you're an expert at contradictions, I'll just let everyone else gather some info...

I hope this was sarcasm, because lately you haven't really been gathering info yourself. But don't quote me on this. I didn't bother to go back and research it.
Oh wait, yes I did. You spent half the time defending your crazy statements, and the other half postponing content and talking about your "feelings" without referencing anything. There was one post a few pages ago where you tried to make a case against Wicked, but that was after you placed a vote on him.

Does this help shed a light on my confusion/frustration with you?

[lobstermania]

Mod:

I will have limited access this weekend. I will be back for sure on Monday, but I'll see if I can log on before then. Sorry folks.

[lobstermania]

Take you fucking blinders off. I'm not scum, but my playstyle is purposely structured as such.

Wait, so you're saying you're town playing as scum?!?

[lobstermania]

This game is getting ridiculous. As far as I can tell CoCo never responded to the accusations about me, which xRECKx is using to bandwagon me. I'm going to write up my defense tonight.

[lobstermania]

First off, I am very unsettled by both CB and xRECKx saying the day has been going on for too long and asking for a (relatively) quick lynch to move into night. We are in the middle of some pretty interesting conversations and there are still a lot of unanswered questions.....why push for a vote and lose one, maybe two, town (well, scum, but you know what i mean)? Why not flush out as much info and discussion before we start disappearing?

I find it very suspicious how quickly lobster FoS's CB, then when put under any pressure from it, immediately reels back and unvotes from a FoS? It just doesn't add up. Either A, he thought he had VOTED CB and accidentally unvoted, or B, he was actually unvoting his random vote... and I don't see why one would unvote a random vote unless you had somewhere else to place your vote. He eventually votes for CB, but only after regurgitating discussion points as his case.

Actually, Option B is exactly what I did. READ: Post #149.

In fact, lobster seems to lay out his own plan as to why he took the hard route. Set things up with an FoS to see if the CB case caught fire, then under the least bit of pressure, upgrade it to a vote. Oh, and let's not forget at the end of this post when he triumphantly declares: "My vote on CB remains." Good for you.

It was only the hard way to you. I have tended to vote irrationally in other games, so I've been working on pacing myself. It was brought to my attention that people would prefer me to vote a little more impusively

Oh... and how would this be remotely useful? It wouldn't. It would simply distract from scumhunting.

People seemed to have different understandings or different uses of these actions, and it seemed helpful for us to all be on the same wavelength. For instance, I usually FoS someone before I vote them. However, in this game people interpreted that asscummy behavior.

Let's not forget how he dives head-first into the wagon on me, justifying it by saying "there's no way it was a fake vote; why are you still voting wolf?" Note that his previous post stated that he was a bit concerned with me, but was overall MORE concerned with CDB. So why the SUDDEN switch of opinion?

I used post # 230 as my FoS on you, not wanting to get into the previous mix-up regarding my FoS-unvote-new vote scum pattern.

This exchange between qax and lobster is odd.

How do you find that odd? People have been speaking for each other throughout the game. qax asked me to confirm that he wasn't putting words in my mouth.

His next move is to vote CoCo, after not saying word one about CoCo up until this post. Oh, and his justification is that it is a "WIFOMy mess". Really, lobster? You have to do better than that. I guess this is his attempt to further explain his bandwagony vote, but I'm not buying it. He seems too "padded"... too "nice"... too "I don't want to stick out with my case against CoCo".

CoCo had blatantly dug is own metaphorical hole. I was the second vote on him, which was more for pressure to get some (GASP) information out of him (also, do you remember how long it actually took us to get it out? L-1!). On the topic of CoCo votes, I'm curious why you're not skeptical of yourself: you voted for him right after me, however you gave no reasoning in the post with your vote. That seems more oportunistic than mine. And your unvote, and then prolamation that you will revote with the hammer...??

Given the above, I'm going to Vote: Lobster. Let's see where this goes.

Let's see where this goes, indeed. Why even add that if you're confident in my guilt? You are pushing for a lynch to end the day and move into the night. You could care less about who gets lynched. Shame on you.

I did read the fucking game. Guess I just missed it, seemed more of a one-offish comment. It's a moot point, now

CDB's request to let CoCo make his own crazy case wasn't one-offish to me at all. Perhaps that's because it concerned me, but that was just poor sportsmanship.

For the purpose of me giving my own opinion on lobster, I thought it would be helpful to present a PBPA of him. Seriously? Go read it on page 25Overall, I have a feeling that lobster is scum and his scumbuddies are NHT and CB. I think this because lobster hesitated to vote for CB and gave an FoS to NHT when he wasn't voting anybody else. Lobster and NHT were also on three of the bandwagons. I think we should lynch lobster because it will tell us about CB and NHT more than a CB or NHT lynch would.


Vote: lobster

What I find interesting with your table's analysis is that you seem to agree with me on almost all of my posts. I do like your idea of lynching someone to gain info on others, but of course I perfer it to be someone else.

I came in with the intention of imposing a deadline, but it seems like the activity has picked up considerably since I last posted, I'm not sure it's still needed.....

Tentative deadline: 17 July 09, exactly two weeks from the time of this post.

Everyone, please let me know if you think this deadline is too long, too short, unnecessary or just fine. (nobody seemed to have responded to my ast question about deadlines)

Thanks.

MOD: Rule 12 states the deadline is up to your discretion and that seems to be your tentative deadline. That is my choice.

Overall, I have a feeling that lobster is scum and his scumbuddies are NHT and CB.

Looking back at the always-reliable RVS, lobster's random vote for you came right after someone else random voted you. Two other players did this: CB and Reckoner.

Obviously, you can't take the RVS too seriously, but it wouldn't be unheard of for players to try to start a random vote bandwagon, in the hopes of capitalizing on a small mistake. I'll admit lobster had a good reason to vote you (for touching all his rusty spoons), but he couldn't even tell us why he had so many rusty spoons! He even got his lawyer involved (getting outside help with a mafia game).

HAHAHAHAH

I have seen RVS bandwagons and it's interesting that CB and lobster both put the second random vote on someone, considering the possible link, especially since CB later tried so hard to defend his random voting.
@CB or lobster
If there's anything to say about your random votes or anything you feel you can respond to in this, please do. To be honest though, I can't blame you if you have nothing to say about this.

I think we have already agreeed that CB had a very weird RVS.....both times. Even though my random vote was the second vote on wickedestjr, it was based solely on his avatar. I challange anyone who finds my random vote scummy to watch Salad Fingers and then not want to vote Wickedestjr for that avatar, lol.

I am suspicious of xRECKx, but I will let it go for today, since he has claimed. We can see what happens during the night; I think that will supply a lot of evidence towards him one way, or another.
I am going to

Unvote: CoCo

. He seems like town playing a very bad game. I am going to take a little time and re-evaluate where I think my vote should go.

Any questions?

[lobstermania]

So I did an iso read on Wicked, since I haven't focused on him that much in this game:

219 - Wicked defends xRECKx's choice to vote wolf without any justification.

246 - In his next post he agrees with CDB's explanation of why xRECKx's actions were scummy. He uses this later in his post to vote C_o saying that he's had a revelation and C_o is scummy for accusing him before CDB convinced Wicked he was wrong.

338 - He suggests xRECKx defend himself "that will actually get us to unvote" even though Wicked is voting C_o...

662 - (While voting for me) Wicked suggests that CB is actually scummier, so maybe he will change his vote......maybe.

FoS for sure, but I'm still not fully convinced about placing a vote on him. Am I missing anything?

[lobstermania]

- His so called "plan" and use of FOS he says is different than most peoples. However, as a point in the case against him? Not so much. See this as more game-theory.
- Group consensus on certain terms is unnecessary, and would seize game day discussion. Anti-town in nature.

These two points are related, though. After the early discussions regarding FoS's and voting patterns (what you have eloquently called "game theory"), I figured it might be helpful for everyone to get on the same footing regarding how we would use certain terms in this thread. In one of the mini's I played in the town had a lot of discussion about what an FoS should mean and how it should be used within that thread. I found it to be very helpful.

- Of all the things, I find his vote of Coco to be the most suspicious thing, for reasons XrX stated.

I believe I was the first person to vote CoCo. It was my intention to apply some pressure for him to shape up. From there he just kept digging himself deeper and deeper into his hole, giving me very little reason to change or remove my vote. I didn't realize people found it to be scummy, which is why I haven't addressed it before.

Sure, lobster defends himself against the points I find as weak in XrX's arguments, but is extremely lacking in his responses to the solid points in XrX's case. He doesn't even really defend himself half the time, and instead tries to strawman some of the points.

I am still very suspicious of xRECKx. I will not vote for him today, due to his claim, but I am

very

interested to see how Day 2 unfolds.

Regarding Wickedestjr:

You say XrX's defense is no good, but never even FOS him.

Interesting point. I hadn't noticed his lack of FoS/vote on xRECKx. In fact, he omgus's C_o during the xRECKx "trap" debacle.
I think I'm ready to

vote: Wickedestjr

. His play has been all over the place. He's been fumbling for a while and his case on CB seems to be out of desperation to save his own tail.

[lobstermania]

Aww, I was really enjoying this game....

Since I was the GF's Daughter, I guess I was in e-drag, or something.

Good luck vanilla-scum!!!