Mafia 93 - A Roccisi Summer - Over!

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vote: howardroark

he deserves it.

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we have 18 days for the first day, and the deadlines will only get shorter on subsequent days. if anyone lurks long enough to deserve a prod (three days) they have lurked through one sixth of the day. i think everyone should endeavor to post

at least

once every two days.

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Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game.

unvote, vote OGB

No one cares. You're only trying to fire up wild goose chases instead of hunt scum or take a stance on anything in the RVS.

i agree. that post alone is enough grounds to lynch.

unvote, vote: oozinggolfball

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Why are people voting me?

that has already been made abundantly clear, playing stupid will get you nowhere

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who the account is an alt of is not the issue, it doesn't even matter. ogb tried to distract from the actual game of mafia by making this into a game of guess who. scummy enough to lynch right now.

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<.<

>.>

hi seraphim

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who the account is an alt of is not the issue, it doesn't even matter. ogb tried to distract from the actual game of mafia by making this into a game of guess who. scummy enough to lynch right now.

You're blowing this way out of proportion, rofl.

If it requires a game of guess who to figure out who is controlling the OGB account, then you've either never heard of DGB or you need help.

i've had plenty of experience with dgb, and ogb is not dgb.

you're only helping make this about who ogb is instead of who is mafia.

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caboose, why exactly do you think i am blowing this out of proportion? what pro town motivation do you see for asking the players to guess who is controlling an alt account?

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So, anyway, back to scumhunting...

Rofl, what do you think of Mix's backpedalling regarding his random vote?

i don't think it was backpedaling. voting someone without stating a reason is a perfectly valid tactic, random vote stage or not, and he simply provided a reason when asked.

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I'm not a zwet alt.

you're also not doing anything that remotely resembles scumhunting.

is it to early to call active lurking?

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caboose hasn't actually had an opinion on anything remotely game related yet, aside from vaguely trying to shut down a legitimate line of inquiry.

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caboose, why would you rather policy vote/lynch alvinz than pursue what you agree is a legitimate argument in favor of voting ogb?

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a purely academic question:

which of these two things benefits the town more?

a 2nd vote for a player based on policy

a 6th vote for a player based on gameplay

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woof. i don't like korts' post 49. mostly the fact that he's deflating the ogb wagon by removing himself from it.

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caboose, why would you rather policy vote/lynch alvinz than pursue what you agree is a legitimate argument in favor of voting ogb?

Not a policy vote.

You'll see....

oh really? please, do explain how voting for someone on the basis of agreeing with iaun's policy vote is not a policy vote.

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woof. i don't like korts' post 49. mostly the fact that he's deflating the ogb wagon by removing himself from it.

I have found a better one. Seraphim presenting others' points as his own, labelling a completely normal reaction backtracking, and having general scummy tone is better than wanting players to identity-guess.

i can't agree that there's any better place to vote until ogb actually starts participating. the fact that he's obviously following along enough to post useless crap here, and simultaneously has been posting in other threads, but can't seem to bring himself to actually be anything but a useless sack is impeding my ability to vote for anyone but him.

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caboose, thats still a policy vote. and i've never seen a policy vote actually succeed in applying real pressure to a player, because everyone knows its based on out of game reasons. policy voting players one considers to be bad in the face of perfectly good wagons replete with in game reasons is one of the more egregious forms of avoiding putting your vote anywhere meaningful.

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korts: are you saying ogb's actions so far are anti-town but not scummy?

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i'm unconvinced on the seraphim-as-scum thing, but i like where charter's head is at

i also really don't buy korts now pseudo-defending ogb because there is "not enough to go on." sometimes one post is all it takes. arguing that he hasn't said enough to get a read on is some kind of fallacy.

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dudes mufasa is pretty clearly town, no one should be voting for him

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dudes mufasa is pretty clearly town, no one should be voting for him

I haven't made up my mind yet, but in no way is he "pretty clearly" town. Exactly how do you come to that conclusion?

its a question of motivation. claiming out of the clear blue sky on day one before a serious wagon has even really taken off on anyone is undeniably stupid, and will bring the house down on your head. scum do not want that kind of attention. they can't afford that kind of attention. therefore it is beyond silly to believe that any scum, experienced or otherwise, would do what he did. the fact that he is clearly an inexperienced player lends further credence to the fact that his ability to convincingly fakeclaim probably isn't well developed, and the way he's been explaining his claim really seems like a truthful misunderstanding of the way his one shot doctor ability is supposed to work, not to mention he specifies that his list of abilities does not exactly match the list given in the sample pms.

and the wagon that has sprung up on him as a result has opportunism written all over it. especially the reasoning of "he claimed a catchy role name when we're not given catchy role names in our pms."

i mean, really, did anyone look at the EXAMPLE PMS provided with the ruleset? the name "jack-of-all-trades" is right there guys.

we need to get back to lynching ogb.

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axelrod, why haven't you commented on anything yet except for mufasa? his claim is far from the only thing that happened before you posted.

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I think both OGB and Mufasa are town. Unfortunately I don't have good picks for scum yet.

i'd love to hear some reasons to think ogb is town

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I'd love to hear some reasons why I'm scum besides you pile of wifom that is your misrep of my first post.

^^^ lynch this guy now

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ok, seraphim is plunging down the town charts and heading very quickly towards scum territory.

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skitzer.. *facepalm*

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obviously if mufasa is not really a jack of all trades, the scum will not kill him. and we can lynch him at our leisure in a day or two if that is the case. if he

is

really a jack of all trades, he has a list of very useful abilities which are dangerous to the scum, and the scum are given a choice of either killing him, or risking leaving him alive to try and secure a mislynch on a later day, thus leaving themselves open to his doc protect, roleblock, and whatever else he's got up his jack of all sleeve.

lynching him today is just stupid.

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Well, there is certainly more reasoning towards lynching him than lynching OGB.

uh.. thats a nice little nugget of a post right there. are you going to explain why you feel this way? what evidence you have for this statement?

and your reason why mufasa should be lynched is because there is "more reasoning towards lynching him than lynching ogb"? what about, i don't know, EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS GAME? its not like if you hate the ogb wagon you don't have other choices aside from the claimed power role.

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Well, mufasa is likely lying, town or scum, due to his misinterpretation of the doctor ability. Have you seen his meta?

what makes it more likely that he's lying about misinterpreting the doctor ability vs him actually misinterpreting the doctor ability?

OGB's case is a post during the RVS that fired certain people up. I don't think any of us knew initially who OBG was an alt of, and I, for one, still don't know.

you are 1) completely missing the crux of the whole ogb case, to the point where i doubt you even bothered to read the thread and 2) actively aiding ogb's intentions of making this game about guessing who he is instead of figuring out who the scum is.

get with the program

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well, I assume mufasa can read, and it's written right there in the ability.

as for OGB, I see nothing in his four posts except maybe a sense of brashness and his lurking. I did read the thread, FY!.

well you obviously missed the part where multiple people explain in very clear terms why what ogb did was indicative of being scum

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Because he wanted to confirm his alt-ness? That seems like something whoevers alt this is would do.

so why hasn't he done anything else besides try to make it a guessing game and whine about people voting for him?

and why are you still voting for mufasa? did my explanation of why we should leave him alive not make sense to you?

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It made sense, but I still would rather lynch him today.

then please explain why lynching him today is better than the alternative i presented.

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i would like to see all of the people voting any of ogb, skitzer and seraphim decide on a consensus candidate and pile all of the votes that are spread between these three onto one of them. much better way of doing business.

i'm still for ogb getting the noose.

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axelrod, does skitzer's vote for mufasa change your opinion on either skitzer or mufasa in any way?

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limited access, haven't read much since last i checked in, but i looked at the votecount and what do you know, mufasa has seven votes when he should have none because he is a town power role. thats great guys, honestly, keep up the good work. [/sarcasm]

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@X - gut

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i'm happy to say i've identified at least three people who are completely obviously town

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here be the scums

ogb
skitzer
caboose
seraphim
axelrod
x
howardroark

keep in mind that obviously i don't think there are seven scum in this game (at least, i certainly hope there are not seven scum) but i'm very confident in saying that a large percentage of this list are scum.

i did some re-reading and noticed a boatload of instances of seraphim buddying up to me / appealing to me as an authority

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charter, i'd like to make a sincere request for you to take of the tunnel vision goggles and look around the game again. i still think you're more likely town than not, but i'm even more sure that mufasa is town at this point, and you're only giving scum who want to wagon him a shield to hide behind.

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yeah. i think charter is capable of re-evaluating the situation though if given the chance. maybe we can take the town out of that equation altogether.

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tajo, the important stuff regarding my reads is already apparent in my posts.

starbuck is firmly under my radar, but her insistence on wagoning mufasa is definitely scummy.

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axel, i see no proof that he's lying. 1shot jailer, doc and) is a perfectly plausible role, and completely understandable as a role that someone would think to call jack of all trades.

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axel, all of his mistakes regarding his shifting claim make sense as legitimate misunderstandings based on inexperience. they all seem sincere.

as for why i'm defending him, its because i think he is town and don't want a mislynch. simple as that. why are you so against me thinking he is town?

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hey everyone, lets take a look at a meta example of a stupid town player making a day one power role claim out of the blue: this post from zwetschenwasser in medieval mafia. and in short order the

entire scum team

was on his wagon because they thought they could score a power role mislynch due to zwets' stupid play.

i mention this because i see parallels between that zwets wagon and this mufasa wagon

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this is a memo to all of the people who are refusing to see the light of day and vote for ogb

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Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game.

ogb's first post. there have been multiple explanations of why this was at least marginally scummy, and worth an early wagon.

and here follow all direct and indirect responses to that post by ogb between when it was made and the next time he posted:

Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game.

unvote, vote OGB

No one cares. You're only trying to fire up wild goose chases instead of hunt scum or take a stance on anything in the RVS.

Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game.

Attention whore alert.

vote: OGB

Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game.

unvote, vote OGB

No one cares. You're only trying to fire up wild goose chases instead of hunt scum or take a stance on anything in the RVS.

i agree. that post alone is enough grounds to lynch.

unvote, vote: oozinggolfball

Vote: OGB

for not liking Jews.

Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game

Hmmm. This post sucks. Congrats. You fail the random voting stage.

Unvote
Vote: OGB

so that is six posts that in some way deal with ogb himself or with ogb's first post, including 1) charter's very straightforward explanation for why he deserved to be voted, in the english language, 2) ekim's very straightforward criticism of "attention whore alert" and 3) a pile of votes and general agreement with the point raised by charter. how does ogb respond? with this:

Unvote; Vote: Mixologist

Why are people voting me?

placing a vote with no explanation whatsoever, and playing stupid. it has been a total of 10 posts since the last time he posted, and he has demonstrated that he speaks the english language, so there is

absolutely no excuse

to pretend he doesn't understand why he has received votes rather than respond to any or all of the points raised against him.

moving on again, from this post until his next contribution we get the following posts directed to or relating to ogb:

Unvote; Vote: Mixologist

Why are people voting me?

Because you refused to take a stance during the random voting stage and claimed to be an alt instead. It's clear you're an alt(probably a zwet alt) even without the claim.

Why are people voting me?

that has already been made abundantly clear, playing stupid will get you nowhere

who the account is an alt of is not the issue, it doesn't even matter. ogb tried to distract from the actual game of mafia by making this into a game of guess who. scummy enough to lynch right now.

who the account is an alt of is not the issue, it doesn't even matter. ogb tried to distract from the actual game of mafia by making this into a game of guess who. scummy enough to lynch right now.

You're blowing this way out of proportion, rofl.

If it requires a game of guess who to figure out who is controlling the OGB account, then you've either never heard of DGB or you need help.

everyone should note that caboose is clearly playing defense for ogb with this post

who the account is an alt of is not the issue, it doesn't even matter. ogb tried to distract from the actual game of mafia by making this into a game of guess who. scummy enough to lynch right now.

You're blowing this way out of proportion, rofl.

If it requires a game of guess who to figure out who is controlling the OGB account, then you've either never heard of DGB or you need help.

i've had plenty of experience with dgb, and ogb is not dgb.

you're only helping make this about who ogb is instead of who is mafia.

caboose, why exactly do you think i am blowing this out of proportion? what pro town motivation do you see for asking the players to guess who is controlling an alt account?

at this point two players (seraphim and caboose) have diverted energy away from the main focus of the game to actually try and figure out who ogb's main is and one player (caboose) has actively attempted to deflect negative attention away from ogb, and once again there is an abundance of reasoning for what makes ogb scummy written out in plain english over the course of a short series of posts. and how does ogb respond to all of this?

I'm not a zwet alt.

...

really? really? and people still don't want to lynch him? people are still willing to

defend him

?

oh, but there's more! continuing, here's another series of posts about ogb.

I'm not a zwet alt.

you're also not doing anything that remotely resembles scumhunting.

is it to early to call active lurking?

Oh. OGB isn't DGB?

I failed.

Never mind. Off that subject. rofl was right.

caboose acquiesces and slinks off into the shadows because even he has realized that ogb is becoming indefensible. too late caboose, you've already made it obvious you are scum with ogb, your time will come soon.

woof. i don't like korts' post 49. mostly the fact that he's deflating the ogb wagon by removing himself from it.

I have found a better one. Seraphim presenting others' points as his own, labelling a completely normal reaction backtracking, and having general scummy tone is better than wanting players to identity-guess.

i can't agree that there's any better place to vote until ogb actually starts participating. the fact that he's obviously following along enough to post useless crap here, and simultaneously has been posting in other threads, but can't seem to bring himself to actually be anything but a useless sack is impeding my ability to vote for anyone but him.

In the 14 minutes between this post of yours and the previous one OGB didn't post at all. Do you expect him to post every five minutes, and if not, what was the purpose of this comment?

korts, please refer to everything i've written so far and take it as a complete refutation of your ridiculous defense of ogb based on the fact that it had only been 14 minutes. as you can see, what happened during those 14 minutes is of much more importance than the mere length of time. i'm omitting the rest of the back and forth between korts and i on the subject for the sake of saving space. korts' aggressive ogb defense based on this faulty premise makes him number two in the "ogb's scumpartners" logbook.

rofl, if OGB consistently ignores the game, he is scummy. If he ignores it over the span of three posts, I don't see where he is all that damaging to town.

No, he is spending his posts ACTIVELY trying to derail the town. The quantity of his posts is irrelevant. The quality of them is incredibly scummy.

ok, thats actually quite enough of that to make my point. now i'll move on to ogb's later (non) contributions.

I'd love to hear some reasons why I'm scum besides you pile of wifom that is your misrep of my first post.

get your head out of the wiki, you obviously don't understand anything you found in there. please explain why what i said was either wifom or a misrep. you know what, scratch that, don't even bother because its obviously an impossible task, just shut up and get lynched.

You may be the more retarded than me, wow you level of comprehension in that last statement was next to none. Seriously look at your pm and look at the examples they don't state much of an ability.

Nice ad hom.

Unvote; Vote: Mufasa

Too much jumpiness in your posts.

once again proving you have no real grasp of any of the fancy terminology you found in the wiki - what mufasa said was not an ad hom fallacy because mufasa was not using the personal insults as the basis for refuting an argument or placing a vote.

and thats it. thats all we've gotten from the esteemed ogb, who so many people have demanded be given enough time to really start participating before we crucify him for daring us to guess who he's an alt of. well, he's had plenty of time to participate, and his participation has ALL BEEN SCUMMY. it is time to lynch this joker.

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Interesting. To rofl's case I don't have much to say besides the fact that my first post was just a joke and that the rest of your case is founded on that one joke post.

You fail.

Vote: OGB

(L-1)

axelrod is a driving a big yellow schoolbus

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here follows a litany of misdeeds relating to ogbscum

who the account is an alt of is not the issue, it doesn't even matter. ogb tried to distract from the actual game of mafia by making this into a game of guess who. scummy enough to lynch right now.

You're blowing this way out of proportion, rofl.

defending the scum

As for who is scum, it's way too early to say. OGB's comment is interesting, but I want to hear from alvinz.

deflecting attention away from the scum

Seraphim's 25 is not good posting. The Mixologist random vote reason backtrack argument is bullshit and the point against OGB already stated by charter and backed up by rofl. All in all a scummy post, as opposed to OGB simply being unhelpful.

deflecting attention away from the scum

In the 14 minutes between this post of yours and the previous one OGB didn't post at all. Do you expect him to post every five minutes, and if not, what was the purpose of this comment?

He has made 3 posts. I see a tendency in the quality of his posting, but so far it is not a wide enough sample to dub it scummy per se.

rofl, if OGB consistently ignores the game, he is scummy. If he ignores it over the span of three posts, I don't see where he is all that damaging to town.

directly defending the scum with a bullshit argument

Meh. I don't see his posts as actively anti-town, only passively. Do you think that only one avenue of discussion can be pursued at any one time?

very actively deflecting attention away from the scum

roflcopter, why, oh why could this be grounds for a lynch?

defending the scum

I think both OGB and Mufasa are town. Unfortunately I don't have good picks for scum yet.

reasonless random ogb town call

Saying stuff like:

we need to get back to lynching ogb.

^^^ lynch this guy now

Like there's some kind of open and shut case out there is not helpful - Which doesn't mean I'm actually a fan of OGB.

I'm much more interested in getting Mufasa figured out first though. Much more.

effectively defending ogb while at the same time professing weak suspicion of ogb = distancing

Well, there is certainly more reasoning towards lynching him than lynching OGB.

deflecting from an ogb lynch

OGB's case is a post during the RVS that fired certain people up. I don't think any of us knew initially who OBG was an alt of, and I, for one, still don't know.

going right back to making this about who ogb is instead of whether or not he's scum

as for OGB, I see nothing in his four posts except maybe a sense of brashness and his lurking. I did read the thread, FY!.

epic fail

I don't like skitzer's posts, particularly where he sets up a

false dichotomy that if Mufasa won't be lynched, OGB will.

I also don't like any of the people on the Mufasa wagon

see bold. korts seems very worried about how to make sure ogb doesn't get lynched.

I doubt OGB is scum because scum would try to use the alt account to their advantage. If they challenge people to find their other accounts and look up meta it would be disadvantageous for them. Plus the aforementioned thing - it's just unnecessary attention which scum would avoid.

Distracting town is bad, but I don't think in this case makes it more likely for OGB to be scum.

direct defense of the scum

OGB: you have been accused of trying to distract the town by getting people to guess your "real" identity. You have been further accused of ignoring complaints against you and failing to contribute anything to the game. How do you plead?

axelrod appears to be coaching ogb into not playing like a bonehead, as if it will save him at this point

I could go for an OGB lynch too, after continued lack of any pro-town intentions.

now that its reasonably clear we're not buying any of this ogb defense, korts comes around to supporting the lynch

Well, I wanted to hear OGB say something and this is what he said:

You may be the more retarded than me, wow you level of comprehension in that last statement was next to none. Seriously look at your pm and look at the examples they don't state much of an ability.

Nice ad hom.

Unvote; Vote: Mufasa

Too much jumpiness in your posts.

That is less that inspiring. In fact, it's probably the scummiest thing he's done. I didn't really care about him saying "let the guessing games begin" in his first post. I thought some of the reaction to that post was out of proportion. But at this point he appears to be deliberately not contributing.

One more time, OGB, care to say something more meaningful?

even more obvious coaching, of the "step it up or i'll be forced to bus you" variety

OozingGolfBall - I dont get the hate OGB is getting for asking to guess his alt. Damn, it was random stage. I can buy some of the agressive players here will be over him, though. This lynch is not as optymal as you imply to be. How is he different than other "quality" posters? Ill analyse his wagon later.

a weak ogb defense and general refusal to get involved

Clearly I said OGB was scumtarded.

Yeah, because OGB is the easy target.

caboose is back to defending the scum again, this time with a side of trying to make alvinz looks bad

I could vote for either at this point fairly easily. I'm still waiting to see if either one can manage to say anything remotely townish before I pick one, but I don't imagine I'll wait that much longer.

one last desperate plea from axel for ogb to say something, anything that gives him an excuse to vote for mufasa instead

Except, roflcopter, his meta shows that he's done similarly as town. And it doesn't take long to check, I promise.

obvious, obvious last ditch defense of the scum, posted directly after my long and involved case. posted alongside this zinger is a big fat case against inhim, which looks like one last attempt to get an alternative wagon going to save ogb.

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top ogb partner candidates, roughly in order:

axelrod
x
korts
caboose
skitzer

no vote just yet, later i will have time to go through italian mafia related evidence

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Oi, rofl, what about darkdude?

upon finishing my re-read he looks like incredibly inept town. i'll have to meta him to see if he's usually this bad.

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notes from reading thadmiral with knowledge of his alignment:

The oh-so-important random phase is "interrupted" by ogb claiming he is an alt. For some reason this makes him obvscum according to

seraphim

and rofl and others. I tend to disagree.

Mufasa claims joat really early. Why? Charter and

seraphim

then vote for mufasa. Even more why?

twice admiral mentions seraphim in a contradictory manner but he never actually passes any judgement on him.

Seraphim says something about the "tone" in which mufasa claimed which is just a very poor and completely subjective way to keep his vote on someone who may very well be a town power role.

a major snipe at seraphim but again without actually drawing any conclusions about what that means for seraph's alignment.

caboose defends mufasa. noted.

admiral deliberately forces a link between mufasa and caboose. more on this later.

Saying stuff like:

we need to get back to lynching ogb.

^^^ lynch this guy now

Like there's some kind of open and shut case out there is not helpful

This is so true. The annoying thing is this sort of stuff is in so many games these days. It is not in persuasive in the slightest so I don't see the point of doing it anyway.

Rofl says:

ok, seraphim is plunging down the town charts and heading very quickly towards scum territory.

which is a close relative to the examples that axelrod was talking about before.
Essentially some reasoning would be nice.

admiral has gone from questioning basically everything seraphim did to sniping at me for not fleshing out my read on seraphim.

Caboose continues to defend mufasa. If mufasa comes up scum caboose has to be next. I normally don't like chain lynching but this one seems like a gimme.

here he goes again with caboose and mufasa. the thing is, if mufasa had been lynched and flipped

town

(as i suspect would be the case) then admiral is free to say "woops i was wrong" and forget about caboose altogether. i think this makes a caboose-admiral team highly likely.

darkdude comes out of nowhere are says ogb and mufasa are town. No reasons given.

Darkdude continues to be unhelpful.

He is still yet to show interest in scumhunting.

There are others though. Darkdude comes to mind.

these quotes strongly indicate that darkdude is not a member of the italian mafia. admiral was almost certainly laying the groundwork for a future mislynch.

overall the buildup throughout admiral's posts towards a mufasa vote are definitely an indication to me that mufasa was an intended mislynch, i.e. not italian mafia. that, plus ogb's attempt to help get mufasa lynched, make me even more confident than before that mufasa is town.

further, the late push against starbuck doesn't look like distancing/bussing either, so i'm going to go ahead and count her out of the italian mafia.

Spyrex votes ogb for fairly shady reasons.

random jab at spy = spy probably isn't italian mafia either

best bets for italian mafia based on admiral's posts:
seraphim
caboose

coupled with seraphim's very obvious example of selective scumhunting in his first post of day two:

Whoa. Well, I'm back. Looks like there are definitely two Mafia teams now. I am a little more hesitant to lynch Mufasa now...but I definitely want to see the "reads" he supposedly got yesterday. Also, what ability he used and who he used it on, please.

Alvinz and darkdude, I think, are two players who need to start scum hunting.

Vote: darkdude

All you've done is defend OGB(who is now scum) and defend Mufasa. This makes me think that a Russian Mafia of:
OGB
Mufasa
darkdude

is highly likely. We can get to alvinz later.

and i can safely say that seraphim is most certainly italian mafia

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inHimshallIbe: I'm sorry but your first post reads scum to me...placing your vote on someone in no danger of being lynched while you catch up so that you seem like you're doing something is very scummy. Please explain your case against Caboose in more detail.

this was picked up on yesterday by korts, but it bears repeating today now that inhim has flipped scum - serious distancing vibes from this one

korts calling him on this forces seraphim to be more direct in attacking inhim, which he is in post 215, where he makes a big deal of attacking him but sticks to an earlier skitzer vote. finally in his last post of the day he parks his vote on inhim when its pretty much obvious that inhim is safely out of the running for the lynch.

another big point against seraphim from where i'm sitting are the instances of him buddying up to me:

Rofl

, what do you think of Mix's backpedalling regarding his random vote?

rofl is probably town.

Thanks for unmasking the scum, rofl.

so, seraphim is italian mafia. here's hoping that the italian mafia only has three members and lynching him will remove a nightkill entirely.

vote: seraphim

[roflcopter]

rofl: I'm liking a lot of what you are saying at the moment (comments directed at me excepted), and you can pat yourself on the back all you like about OGB, but the fact is the case you were pushing, starting from his very first post, was never as strong as you were acting like it was. Certainly not at the beginning. OGB posted six times in the entire game, one line posts, and three of those were on Day 1. It wasn't until his post #5 that it started to look real bad. Calling out everyone who didn't jump on him instantly is fairly well ridiculous.

my disagreeing entirely with your point here aside, i don't see why you had to

make

this point when the whole matter is already over and done. it doesn't matter when there was sufficient evidence to really merit a lynch in your opinion or mine, what matters is that very early on something from ogb tripped sensors, pressure was applied, and he and other players responded in a way that can now be analyzed.

the fact that you're going about this by continuing to question whether or not i was right to attack ogb when i did looks to me like an attempt to discredit my personal scumhunting ability in order to save yourself from what new evidence i just presented implicating you.

So, Darkdude, do you have anything more meaningful to say now? (look, I'm coaching again).

being facetious does not help your cause

Mufasa: I would very much like to hear your rationale for choosing to "block" Korts last night. And I would really like it if the answer was not a one line response to the effect of "I thought he was scummy." Give me something more substantial please.

look, seriously, its time for you to find another axe to grind. i'm already of the opinion that you spent the entire day yesterday grilling mufasa as a means to avoid meaningful interaction with anyone or anything else, and now that we've had scumflips from two different factions on people who were doing their very best to get mufasa lynched for shitty reasons we can all rest easy knowing that the guy is basically confirmed town. you don't need to waste energy and everyone's time giving him the third degree again.
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charter - things i said about seraphim, agree/disagree?

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I think we should look more at Tubby. In my only game with him (the former mini-version of this semi-open setup run by TDC, actually), he was my scum buddy and he basically lurked entire days through posting only weak opinions (which usually followed the common consensus) and promising he'll "look at" some people/stuff.

i think you just chose a random easy target to try and take the heat off of you

Of course, maybe he does this as town as well, so we need meta check.

especially because you don't even come to a hard conclusion of any kind

Rofl thinks Seraphim is Italian scum because he's voting me.

this statement is a ridiculous strawman

I was sort of expecting it though, given my lurking and his experience playing with me before as he stated. And if he is scum, why Italian? Would being the Russian faction change his method or choice of attack? I doubt it.

please go back and actually read my posts this time. the answer to your questions has already been stated in no uncertain terms.

darkdude just got a lot scummier.

[roflcopter]

some random setup related musings i'd like opinions on

23 players, 2 scumgroups - i can't decide if two groups of 3 or two groups of 4 is more likely

we know that the italian mafia did not make a successful kill last night - this does not bode well for korts, who was roleblocked by mufasa

since a member of the italian mafia who was also a member of the upper roccisi neighborhood is now dead, it is a safe assumption that there are no further italian mafia members in this neighborhood. it is also a given that the remaining italian mafia already know the identity of everyone else in this neighborhood thanks to inhim. i think the town would benefit from the rest of this neighborhood claiming their neighbor status, as this would allow us to eliminate suspects from the potential italians pool.

given that the italian mafia had a doctor, and we know this doctor was not protecting the gf because the gf also died, it stands to reason that the mafia doc must have been protecting someone deemed even more likely to draw a nightkill than inhim was. this points to someone who was already under heavy suspicion yesterday being a part of if the italian mafia. seraphim was under heavy suspicion yesterday.

[roflcopter]

i don't like how spy's analysis ignored korts and axelrod, the most likely ogb bussers

i don't like how spy ignored my case on seraphim and the bandwagon thats building in favor of presenting an alternative

and i really, really don't like this:

Mufasa could still use that bullet.

because no, he should not be shot, he is a town power role and thats even more evident today than it was yesterday

i suddenly understand why spyrex is on tubby's shortlist

spyrex also notably left charter off of the list of people who jumped wagons when he is the most blatant wagon jumper, being gung ho for an ogb lynch until mufasa comes along and is suddenly ZOMG THE ONLY PERSON WE CAN LYNCH BCUZ HES SO DUMB

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Re: my being blocked, I confirm that it's likely I was blocked. rofl: for me to be the cause of the lack of italian NK, I would have to be Italian myself. You've concluded that if I'm scum, I'm more likely to be Russian. Is there any relation between the two conclusions?

a game this size could have > 3 sources of nightkills - hell we already have seen a mafia one shot vig - so there is also a not insignificant possibility that an attempted russian mafia kill being performed by you failed as well. as it is, the rb on you with at least one known missing kill is just further evidence that you need to die sooner than later. yes i still think you're more likely russian, but i am not precluding the possibility of you being italian.

also we need to keep in mind that these mafia groups do not necessarily have standard mafia kill abilities. tdc's previous game gave the mafia a group ability of gun invention, not just standard kill, and we've had a mafia one shot vig flip which lends credence to the idea of a whole mafia composed of one shot vigs or something else equally wacky that limits the total number of kills the mafia will be able to make.

[roflcopter]

Mufasa (7): charter, Starbuck, skitzer,

OozingGolfBall

, X,

ThAdmiral

,

inHimshallibe

this wagon is already proven to be 3 parts out of 7 mafia, with elements of both groups we know exist. can we put to rest the idea of the town killing mufasa please, once and for all?

#3 though worries me. If its a vig, which I doubt more and more, they -REALLY- shot from the hip. An SK makes more sense as those are low-profile targets that have a definite chance of getting away with clean. Or, another freakin mafia group.

spy, why do you feel the need to cast doubt on a vig claim that hasn't even happened yet? the fact that this third kill source did not take out the target you and charter tried to convince him/her/them to does not mean they're anti town. there was a significant level of legitimate suspicion leveled at inhim yesterday, and i can completely understand a thorough vig evaluating admiral during the night and deciding to ice him, so neither of those kills is really "shooting from the hip" just because they're not the kill you wanted made.

[roflcopter]

And I'm not doubting the existance of a vig. Far from it. The fact that mufasa doesn't have that role in his Joat makes me think all the more there IS a vig.

I am saying that I do not think last nights mysterious kill was a vig.

which is, in essence, a preemptive strike on any future vig claim which does include claiming responsibility for one of last nights kills

@Rofl: I was catching up and my major concern with Sera is the pressure he's got from other scummy players. It doesn't speak right for a bus setup.

two scumgroups means it doesn't have to be a bus, it could just be russian mafia happy to lynch non russian. i would think you would have realized this. go take your nap and come back.

[roflcopter]

Early on I thought he was scum, now I think hopelessly lost. I don't agree with you that he's scum.

please explain why in terms of the case i brought up. in particular, explain how the points i raised actually make him seem like hopelessly lost town and not scum.

i'll respond to other things later. let me just mention how much it fucking annoys me when people get on my case for being right. second game in a row this is happening.

[roflcopter]

so the scum are:

charter or korts
x
axelrod
seraphim
skitzer
and apparently alvinz

unvote, vote: alvinz

[roflcopter]

woot good job town, and well played tubby you were a fun mason partner

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also kudos on the fantastic setup tdc

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x, i wish i could tell you what made my scum senses tingle in the broadest sense. i definitely thought you were a member of the ogb scumteam, so while i wasn't surprised to see you flip antitown (especially after i got nightkilled) i was surprised that you were sk. you played a good game.