Mini 793: Scrubs mafia- GAME OVER

[Furry]

Vote Brandi

[Furry]

Brandi's reaction to Furry's vote seems extreme, but 4 votes seem a step too far for this, so I'm going with the person who attacks her attacker.

Why is a fourth vote bad? If you really think someone is going to get lynched page one you have another thing coming. Also I take it you view both Brandi and Gorrad as slightly scummy at this point? Why would you not be voting Brandi if you view her as scummy? Also why is a third vote bad for that matter even?

Also that vote was quite obviously not serious, those votes are more backed up by reasoning, quotes, cases, you know... scumhunting.

unvote
vote Fishy

Explain your last vote and why you voted Gorrad over Brandi

A side note though, its difficult to really offend me, and believe me I will let you know if you do.

[Furry]

If by serious you mean "not entirely random", yes. The fact that you named 4 scum suggests you know there are 4 scum, as this is not a usual number for a setup of this size.

4 scum for this game is Xylbot's maximum. Now you also know. Happy?

That doesnt answer why you brought up four scum. I have never seen that in a mini outside of a 8-2-2 setup.

[Furry]

Your analysis is also at odds with hp's own defense. hp backs up his naming of four scum with a claim that a 4 player scumteam is possible, and implies that his original post was made with this (to some extent) in mind; you dismiss the 4 player team as next to impossible, and say that hp's first post was random. You appear to be defending hp in a way that directly conflicts with his own explanation.

There really can not be a 4 person scum team in this game, even if you take into account that we are all working in a hospital, or at least trying to given what I remember from early seasons, 4 scum make little sense outside of nightless and 2-2-8 setups.

It doesnt matter to me that how one person explains the improbable doesnt match another person. Its like if you asked him why an orange cant fly and hp said gravity, then he said it doesnt have wings. Thats basically what is going on here. Also his first post was fairly obviously random

[Furry]

I see what you're saying. What I was saying was that Furry seemed to be extra-verbose in relating, "Oh, that was random." If he had said that, I'd have had no problem at all. Scum overexplain a lot of the time, and it was an initial type of gut read.

Unless im drinking, short on time or have a very specific thing I want to accomplish, im usually on the wordy end of things.

@Fishy - What are your thoughts on Brandi?

@mod

I expect at most one post between now and friday, I should be able to get consistant access starting this weekend.

[Furry]

Finally got internet working *damn comcast giving me a router that died after an hour the first time* so I will get a reread done either tonight or tomorrow.

[Furry]

Getting caught up now, still adjusting to a new place and job so wont be super active for a little bit still.

Don't like inHim counting my vote amongst the seemingly serious votes against the Fish, trying to appear to have more support than he does?

Fair enough. But why pose that as a question? I think you're asking approval of the rest of us before you lay down a vote, which happens to be scum-motivated protocol. veerus did do the same, but was not so egregious, as he is still a little more convincing of his intentions.

I like this from inH actually, and see exactly what he is getting at. DDD brought up reasons for voting inH, unvoted his previous vote, and then never voted inH. It was just a post calling him scummy. Seems like he should vote him with what was brought up here, not seemingly searching for approval to vote.

As a side note, I understand what you tried to do in the early game. I just dont really like that type of play too much as its not what im used to so I cant get reads off it. That no reasoning wagon vote is the closest I ever get to it.

unvote, vote slicey

for these next few things.

First you vote inH for his playstyle of the wagoning thing. So he wagons to get information. Wow. Must be scum there man. If you can go back through all his past games and find significant correlation between him doing this as scum, I will listen.

Next the "I will remember this for later" comment from brandi, which is a much bigger scumtell then what you voted over, just gets an FoS. The fact that you noticed this as scummy, and voted a playstyle difference over it is shocking. You even add in how she seems to be calling quite a few people town almost randomly.

Also I dont think DDD ever responded to that vote by inH, I would like to see a response to that.

[Furry]

inHim cut my quote which has a way of distorting things in this case as it allows the actual order of things to be flipped. I unvoted as to note that I was not seriously voting for fishy, not to free up my vote to vote inHim. The question mark and tone of the post aren't a reflection of me searching for approval, but instead me presenting a potentially interesting point, but one I didn't have a strong opinion on.

Well one thing that I dont get is why anyone would never have a vote out once they even see a slight scum tell. There are just so many reasons to be voting as compared to not voting, if you really want me to list them I will go do that, but it should be fairly obvious. Point aside though.

There is really only two tones, pro and anti-town. I dont really think there is such thing as completely neutral tone unless you basically say "I have no opinion whatsoever". Saying "I think he votes on too little reasoning" is still in a negative light given that voting with little reason is viewed much more widely as a scum telll then anything else. Even if you view it as a null tell, bringing up something that is likely to be viewed as a scumtell is scummy if its not accompanied by a vote.

Besides, inHim's hypothesis that I was looking for approval to vote doesn't really stand up when you consider the fact that I haven't, ya know, voted.

When he is the only person you have seemed to lean to voting for, it kind of does. The phrasing of that statement really was made like you were looking to see if anyone would agree with the idea before you acted on it, even if that was not the intention

[Furry]

inHim cut my quote which has a way of distorting things in this case as it allows the actual order of things to be flipped. I unvoted as to note that I was not seriously voting for fishy, not to free up my vote to vote inHim. The question mark and tone of the post aren't a reflection of me searching for approval, but instead me presenting a potentially interesting point, but one I didn't have a strong opinion on.

Well one thing that I dont get is why anyone would never have a vote out once they even see a slight scum tell. There are just so many reasons to be voting as compared to not voting, if you really want me to list them I will go do that, but it should be fairly obvious. Point aside though.

It's not that I don't see the value of voting, but that you're downplaying the detriments of a trigger-happy voting style.

Show me where wagoning in the random stage is harmful. Seriously, its a different playstyle but it doesnt mean he is scum. Just try and learn to read it.

There is really only two tones, pro and anti-town. I dont really think there is such thing as completely neutral tone unless you basically say "I have no opinion whatsoever". Saying "I think he votes on too little reasoning" is still in a negative light given that voting with little reason is viewed much more widely as a scum telll then anything else. Even if you view it as a null tell, bringing up something that is likely to be viewed as a scumtell is scummy if its not accompanied by a vote.

Only two tones? Mafia must be so much easier in your binary world because from where I sit not only do you have to properly define words and actions along a full spectrum from completely anti-town to pro-town you also have to then take the analysis to another level and then determine the likely motivations and explanations for those behaviors.

Everything is either anti or pro town once you do all that. Hell if you really wanted me to I could of said "Everything starts out as something that is said. Now, you take the quote and apply your personal standards of if any tells that are in it are pro or anti town. From there you apply it to the situation at hand and draw conclusions. From there you are able to decide if it is a pro or anti town quote". In the end its still going to be a town or scum tell.

Besides you said it yourself, "given that voting with little reason is viewed much more widely as a scum tell" and that's what you and inHim apparently expected of me; to vote based on a little reason I found. So, essentially you're faulting me for not behaving in a scummy fashion, peculiar behavior itself.

I dont view it as a scum tell in the random stage first off. Also what are you saying here? Im missing it. If you see him as the scummiest, even if it is not a lynching tell, you still should vote. I usually am not happy with a lynch untill around page 15, but I vote before then.

[Furry]

Prod on slicey and anyone else who might need one?

More after I get off work tomorrow

[Furry]

(Inactive players have been prodded. Maturin24 has not picked up his prod and will be replaced at the end of D1 if still alive.)

Wait seriously? We wont get a replacement for the entire day?

Also more slicey votes, might get him to respond to the things against him instead of trying to lurk them away.

[Furry]

Let's see, as inHim has shown it's a good way to bring suspicion on yourself, which is generally counterproductive for a townie. If also done to the wrong player it can induce false positives which are bad and while I trust myself to properly interpret such a bandwagon that's not a trust I can extend to other players very easily in a game of mafia, now can I?

Furthermore, you're changing the argument from an original indictment of me for not shamelessly bandwagoning inHim to defending inHim despite the fact that I've never really attacked him. I've only disagreed with your assertion that an aggressive voting style is always good, I've never stated that it's always bad.

You are right that this doesnt really have anything to do with the situation at hand, so im fine with admitting difference of playstyle and moving on. If you ever use him play at the beginning though ill be back and more obstinant then ever.

Yeah, I'm going to disagree with this, there's a huge amount of junk posted in any game of mafia. The ability to parse through it for valuable info is key. The tendency to over analyze every last word looking for a scumtell based on the spacing of the o's in looking is conversely not productive.

Sure it is, the more you can pick up about the nuances, you can pick up things that dont line up with what has been going on for the rest of the game.

And I'm happy for you that you've got a style of game you like, but don't try and dictate how I should play the game.

Well this isnt quite my style, when its my style im posting three or four times a day. That involves a lot of WoTs, arguments etc etc.

[Furry]

Very verbose as well, but definitely not a lurker. He uses a lot of fallacies in his arguments, and seems to attack people for the wrong reasons but with good intentions. He seems to push the idea of "playstyle" a little to fervently. I actually find this relating to art. As an artist, I see that some are very much against criticism when they receive it, and respond often with "its just my style." This is all good and well, but there is a LIMIT to how much something can be called STYLE and how much something can be seen as a definite area in which someone needs to improve.

If he was still going "I want to vote the highest vote getter and only the highest vote getter", then yes, its a problem. For the most part though, I could care less what people do in the random stage. This includes what he did in the random stage. He isnt playing like he did in the first few pages, and I see no reason for people to keep trying to get him lynched for random stage comments. If people are using really bad reasoning to push a case, im going to step in and say something.

[Furry]

I'm sorry I haven't been posting that much, I've been busy. For anyone whose attacking me because of my attack against inHim: I made a mistake. I thought inHim was implying something different than he truly was. Thus, the points I made against him are null.

Ok, so now you have no opinions on anything at all?

[Furry]

@Furry, did you read my entire post? IT went on for more than just the random stage. Now his vote on me is mostly OMGUS, that doesn't make him look any better.

Maybe I should just make this definative instead of implying it at every turn. I am not going to vote for inhim since I think he is town. I am going to vote for slicey since he is the only person I have a scum read on who is even close to getting lynched.

Right now people are letting him get away because he isnt doing anything. Promises to reread, post, none of it ever comes. He has NOTHING in the form of a read on ANYONE, is scummy as hell, and people are just going after people they can actually argue with. I am not going to let inhim get lynched if I have anything to say about it, and will do my best (or maybe worst?) to make sure Slicey goes down.

So yeah, not voting inhim. Not stopping untill Slicey goes down.

[Furry]

My opinion on Brandi is that she looks a lot more town after that gigantic post. I don't think scum would take the time to make such a huge post. However, I still think she's pretty scummy, for: calling people most likely town on P1 (and you downplayed it in your big post), actually considering lynching hp leaves for making a joke about a 4 person scumteam (this was mostly your wording. Town would not be thinking about lynching or not lynching someone on Page 2. They would be thinking about voting that person.) A final reason is that you only seem to worry about things that concern you. For example, you said very little in your big post about the posts between DDD and Furry, other than it happened.

Oh come on now can we lynch Slicey? Look, he says Brandi is town because scum wouldnt be proactive (its actually best for scum to take over a game if no one else is taking the leader role). So there is logical fallicy number one. Now you go on to say Brandi is still scummy, so there goes that read shot to hell. Basically you got a whole paragraph that boils down to

"Brandi is townish for that big post, but not too townish, lets not start calling her town or anything too. She did these things that are scummy remember?"

[Furry]

Look, scum

generally

don't make posts like that. However, she has done other scummy things as I've listed. I still think there's a chance she's still scum, I'm just not as sure now.

Maybe bad scum. I can point you to one hell of a lot of posts that are big and have lots of analysis and are from scum.

[Furry]

First I think I get an "I told you so" on inhim being town. Trust the town reads, that wagon was weak, weakity weak weak.

Willing to bet slicey was a vig kill though, DDD death is a bit surprising however.

Prob going to vote Tzee for that shifty hammer. That was one of those scenarios where a no lynch was the best move.

[Furry]

On the other hand, I am interested by hp's ultimatum. Discouraging discussion is not a good thing - and you effectively pressured those who didn't find inHim as scummy as yourself to not post in his defence. Even as a "final thought for the day" sort of thing.

Re-reading is now required, back later.

No-lynch hurts town. I posted that on the final day, where we would have to lynch inHim or have a no lynch. Which would you prefer?

I would of prefered a no lynch all the way. If I could of posted before the hammer, I would not of voted inhim. Seriously, if you could not tell that from the way that wagon progressed, that he was not town, go back and look at how town gets lynched in other games, and how scum gets lynched.

That type of wagon was on town 100%. It was a deadline driven on a point primarily established in the RVS, there was no significant competing wagon, there was (only one) player apart from the lynchee who disagreed with it, it gained most steam at a deadline announced FAR IN ADVANCE. The only thing that would of made inhim more town is if he claim VT.

[Furry]

Furry, if you take out hindsight from your thought process, you would see that you're wrong. Did you KNOW that he was town? Most of us didn't. And while I'm not a theory buff, everything I've read around here states that a lynch, any lynch, is better than a no lynch.

Are you looking for some arbitrary number of how sure I was on this read? Also hindsight? Not sure what part of the thought process yesterday showed that I didnt think he was town just about ever. I was very very sure that inhim was town. We had a successful wagon with about four people not even POSTING, that basically means everyone was on the wagon, if inhim was scum, it would of needed to be with the guy who got replaced/BMQ/veerus.

If I think someone is town though, I am going to defend them to the end. Admittedly I thought slicey would flip scum which is another reason I prefered no lynch, but I would rather have a no lynch then a lynch on my strongest town read.

Vote Tzee

Biggest thing is that vote for Inhim. Take a look at the final LoS we saw.

Anyone below this post who doesn't have his vote on inHim and doesn't hammer will be lynched tomorrow.

Threatening people for having a different opinion to you, and saying so, is not good.

Already he sees that hp is trying to bully votes onto inhim.

But the deadline is looming, and we don't want a no-lynch. inHim is not at the top of my scumdar at the moment (I find Slicey more scummy even now), but he's still a much better lynch than none at all, and on the brief readthrough I've made he's a perfectly reasonable choice.

Ok, this is what makes no sense. Slicey is more scummy then inhim. The two top wagons are slicey and inhim. However a lynch of a second (or maybe even lower) choice is taken. If he really thought that slicey was scum, it should mean that inhim is NOT scum. So he backs the wagon on someone that he should logically think is town, in order to get a lynch.

And the claim certainly doesn't help.

*facepalm* ok seriously people. Just about every role can work as any alignment given how the game is balanced. Give me any role and I bet I can throw together a somewhat balanced mini in about ten minutes. If this is about role name thats even more annoying. Any good mod will give scum fakeclaims, or they will all be roles that are townie sounding. Name/Role claims should be taken on if they fit flavor if you are going to attempt to bust on it. If inhim claimed doctor, then yeah, thats flavorfail. RB is not.

[Furry]

If I think someone is town though, I am going to defend them to the end. Admittedly I thought slicey would flip scum which is another reason I prefered no lynch, but I would rather have a no lynch then a lynch on

my strongest town read

.

Where did you state this? You're getting scummier and scummier if you fail to respond.

First of all hun, no threats. That has a pretty nice potential of getting a backlash from me thats not going to be pleasant.

But seriously? What posts of mine yesterday did not suggest that inhim was my strongest town read? Would you rather of me said "Inhim is a very bad wagon to persue and is my strongest town read" repetedly?

[Furry]

If I think someone is town though, I am going to defend them to the end. Admittedly I thought slicey would flip scum which is another reason I prefered no lynch, but I would rather have a no lynch then a lynch on

my strongest town read

.

Where did you state this? You're getting scummier and scummier if you fail to respond.

First of all hun, no

threats

. That has a pretty nice potential of getting a backlash from me thats

not going to be pleasant

.

Irrelevant to point out maybe, but man what Irony!

Yeah I know, it was a joke. But if he is going to get threaty, im going to be threaty

[Furry]

Need to take a look at this brandi wagon tonight it would seem...

[Furry]

And the claim certainly doesn't help.

*facepalm* ok seriously people. Just about every role can work as any alignment given how the game is balanced. Give me any role and I bet I can throw together a somewhat balanced mini in about ten minutes. If this is about role name thats even more annoying. Any good mod will give scum fakeclaims, or they will all be roles that are townie sounding. Name/Role claims should be taken on if they fit flavor if you are going to attempt to bust on it. If inhim claimed doctor, then yeah, thats flavorfail. RB is not.

And finally, putting my words into my mouth. I'm perfectly aware that flavour and mechanics are rarely linked that strongly (in fact, I've made note of your seeding of potential doubts for the future), and it's interesting you didn't ask

why

I thought the claim didn't help.

One of the most common power roles to give scum is roleblocker. In addition, the only way to test the power involves a pro-town power role losing their role for a night, then willingly stepping forward to state this. What's more, the only way to reliably test involves a power role stepping forward BEFORE being blocked - making them an obvious target.

In other words, it's one of the most reliable scum claims there is - it's a power role, but one which is both near-impossible to test without giving the scum information and one which is very likely to go to the scum.

It was the fact that he claimed roleblocker that tipped it over the edge for me. Not the fact that he claimed that Jordan was a roleblocker.

So you were outguessing the mod? Never seen a town RB I take it? As I have said before, give me a scum role, I will give you a setup for it. Dont WIFOM the setup though.

There also is blocking scum kills for town RBers though. Also if they do hit a town role that knows it, it confirms the role it hit when they claim. Best play for a RBer is to just aim for the scummiest player. They might stop a kill, they might end up confirming a PR of a scummy player that causes scum to need to scramble given that a lynch just got their role confirmed. I can go hunt for games with a town RBer if you want, bet I can find quite a few.

Just about every role can work as any alignment given how the game is balanced... If this is about role name thats even more annoying.

The first part says that any role can work as any alignment. Initially I read that as "Any character can work as any alignment", but the next bit - where you say it's worse if it's about the role name - seems to imply that the first bit was talking about the ability itself.

Please let me know if I'm misinterpreting this bit, but does that mean that you think we shouldn't take a person's claimed role into account when deciding whether or not to lynch them?

I mean WHO they claim is not important at all. Any mod worth a salt will not make the game breakable by nameclaim. What is important is what they claim in relation to their name claim, and what they claim if you strip all flavor from the game. For example vigs, I could see...

Hooch - Because hooch is crazy
Doug - Because he is a really bad doctor
Kelso - Because he fires people

If we had a claim of JD - Vig, now that doesnt make sense, and is a claim you lynch. Now if you have someone claim a cop with investigations on the obv-innocent and a dead player, then you lynch them regardless of a name.

On the other hand, I really liked your responses.

unvote

Reading brandi, hp, BMQ now.

[Furry]

So you were outguessing the mod? Never seen a town RB I take it? As I have said before, give me a scum role, I will give you a setup for it. Dont WIFOM the setup though.

Here you are saying not to outguess the mod.

If we had a claim of JD - Vig, now that doesnt make sense, and is a claim you lynch.

Here you are outguessing the mod.

Either it's not okay, or it is, make up your mind.

Or you just didnt quite understand what I said.

Outguessing the mod for what roles (RB, vig, doctor etc) are what alignment, or are in the game or not is bad outguessing the mod. Now, comparing a roleclaim to a flavor claim is not really outguessing the mod as much as it is having a claim not make any sense. Theme games are made to put nameclaims with APPROPRIATE roles so the mod and players can have fun.

If the mod just put random roles with random names, I will be pissed beyond reason (even though current roles show this is not true). You dont outguess the mod for setup or what alignments roles are, in a theme you are allowed to lynch role-name claims that dont add up.

[Furry]

Tell me where you fail to follow me

1) There should be no nameclaim that makes you go "lets not lynch this person"
2) There should be no roleclaim that makes you go "that is a town/scum role"
3) You

should

be sure that the name claim fits the role claim
4) If the nameclaim down not fit the roleclaim, its a fakeclaim.

So from what you had bolded

WHO they claim is not important is covered by 1.

JD - Vig is covered by 3, that role makes no sense, ESPECIALLY as there are roles that make more sense as a vig in the game. Maybe in super fluffy happy bunny land there would be a vig that doesnt make sense, but in a game with doug, kelso, janitor, hooch etc... no, there are some roles that dont make sense. This is also going into 4.

For your last part, I feel the better the mod the farther away from the meta of regulation (RB/GF/goon) they go when making scum setups if they still can make a balanced, non-swingy game.

[Furry]

Will get to this tonight. Fishy looks really townie at this point, BMQ for some reason is really setting off my gut scumdar, while Brandi is less scummy, but I can put my finger on the reasoning a lot better.

hp drives me crazy going from really town to really scum with just about every post he makes. Tzee is slight town, gorrad I really have no clue on after nothing day one and a D2 tunnel, what bugs me most here though is the brandi wagon seems to be from the D2 stuff more then D1 which I see as more scumtells. But tonight most likely, unless I have to go back out in the field for work.

[Furry]

Vote BMQ

reasoning later tonight, almost off work

[Furry]

There is merit to bandwagonning for the sake of bandwagonning, especially this early. A bandwagon creates pressure on a player which forces reactions from that player. It creates a situation that people in the town must respond to and have an opinion about. It's good for the game.

That being said, I'm not sure which I like less: the case against inHim, or his response to it. They're both pretty bad. I'm gonna sit on Fishy a bit more for the moment.

This is a great example of playing both sides of quite a few topics. There is seeds planted to vote inhim, the people pushing inhim, and still leaves reasoning to be voting fishy. There is no line of questioning towards fishy in progress at this point either.

So far, what seems to have happened is just more of the same. inHim seems to like hopping wagons, and Brandi attacks whoever looks at her funny. One falls under the "happy with any lynch" scum stereotype, and the other, the "overly defensive".

At this point, I'm still happy with my vote on Brandi. Nine pages into Day 1, I'm skeptical of anyone who has strong conviction about anything. I understand that appears to Brandi as being a "lazy townie", but I consider it arrogant to think you're ABSOLUTELY sure someone is scum.

Well more fencing here. Inhim is scummy (for oversold reasons), brandi is scummy (for just about hte biggest crap tell ever). It seems like brandi feeling "absolutely sure" that inhim was town is how he decided on a vote here.

I never really realized how little BMQ has added before I did this. I think Brandi is town (partially due to my theory that a vanilla claim near a deadline of a vote leader has an amazingly high chance of being true), but nowhere near as town as inhim was. Still pissed at that.

[Furry]

Stop lurking People.

Stop throwing away your vote. At least give opinions on BMQ.

[Furry]

Very famous scrubs roles, likely to be in game, probably protown, unlikely mafia fakeclaims. I'm fairly convinced.

Even though in this case, its mod confirmed, this can be dangerous thinking for future themes. Making "pro-town" characters scum is a favorite for me when I run themes.

Im wondering whats going on though at this point, something feels wrong. I have a leaning town read on Brandi, but that would mean we have run up four town so far.

Im going to read through more and put some thoughts up. Deadline is in about 10 hours I think, so I will be back to hammer on time.

[Furry]

unvote vote veerus

I would prefer a hp lynch, but still have a slight town read on brandi at this point. The replacement rule really sucks. Its basically 7 alive 5 to lynch

[Furry]

unvote
vote brandi

I think if brandi is town we have something like hp-veerus-whoever hasnt had one post trio here

[Furry]

Mason claim was genius, I always wanted to do that but never had a partner with enough guts to go through with it. Did anyone else realize that scum had to be masons or Fritz-SSK though? It confirmed Gorrad and Fishy as town (in absence of a framer). No lynching that day was the best move as if scum had NOT realized this and killed Fritz-SSK they just lost.

This game also proves that I still can not ever play correctly as a vig, something in my mind siezes up, and I basically become the pro-town SK.

I did have all my town reads dead on though. I have no clue why Inhim was really lynched, he was really really really really obviously town. Brandi a bit less so but honestly there was just about however many other players left in the game I would of wanted to lynch less.

Fun game though

[Furry]

Those who voted for SSK (minus the scum of course) why in the holy hell did you vote a claimed cop? That makes zero sense.

Well when he claimed scum with his results this is what it ment for the game

1) Masons were scum, since they were "confirmed" to eachother, and a guilty was on one of them
2) SSK was scum (likely with the Kelso-miller claim), and was looking for a lynch to win the game.
3) Mafia framer or other manipulator existed

Now it was obvious that masons and SSK (no matter who was scum) would not be NKed. The correct move however was to hope that mafia in the masons did not realize that Fritz was either confirmed town or scum with SSK, and went and killed him.

Either way, it was hard to tell who was scum and who wasnt there at the end. I dont get why a guilty was not claimed D2 though after the mason claim. Actually I do.

~The only problem I have about the structure of this game was the replacement rule. It literally stole a win from the town. D2 if hp had been around to claim a guilty on the mason claim, regardless of who got lynched the lover-masons would of gone. When he was not able to claim, it was a big boost to the scum since the results only were available to scum in lylo.

[Furry]

I still think furry is wrong, and that inHim was the scummiest player in the game, and I have no idea why he thinks that he shouldn't have been lynched.

I would of nearly bet the game on him being town. It was a mix of me not thinking most of the tells used against him were of merit to start, then mixed with how the core of the case against him was unchanged for a long period of time, there was no opposition to the lynch, and it became larger at deadline in the face of an opposing wagon that had less support. Most of those are signs of a wagon on town.

The end of the wagon felt similar to yours, rushed when there was not a full consensus on what had occured so far. You claiming vanilla was also obviously a town tell, in presence of a deadline, the highest vote getter claiming vanilla actually is a town tell. Go back and compare games that result in a deadline lynch, VT claims are usually truthful since they get lynched, scum wont claim it as often in that situation.