DHSDSM alpha: Game Over.

[Ortohoops]

Mod

, I have a question, I don't believe it's explicitely covered in the rules.

What would happen if there were say 8 alive (5 to lynch), a player was at L-1, and a scum kill took place on another player without their vote on that wagon. That would lower the votes required to lynch to 4. Would that also be a lynch, or is there some sort of clause I'm missing?

[Adel]

Mod

, I have a question, I don't believe it's explicitely covered in the rules.

What would happen if there were say 8 alive (5 to lynch), a player was at L-1, and a scum kill took place on another player without their vote on that wagon. That would lower the votes required to lynch to 4. Would that also be a lynch, or is there some sort of clause I'm missing?

It would be a lynch.

[Ortohoops]

I propose during periods when the town has even numbers, we don't leave players at L-1 for this reason. Any claim to prevent your lynch in this scenario should be done before you're left dangling and susceptable to scum killing someone to drop the numbers.

[Apples and Banana]

The wagon on Incamnito grew way too quickly, imo. Pesco Light, especially, seemed to be voting for a comment the Mod said couldn't be backed up, due to talking about the other game.

Unvote, Vote: Pesco

[whoami8]

The wagon on Incamnito grew way too quickly, imo. Pesco Light, especially, seemed to be voting for a comment the Mod said couldn't be backed up, due to talking about the other game.

Unvote, Vote: Pesco

Yeah that's a brilliant scum strategy. Run up a player to a premature wagon thus drawing attention to yourself and then kill said player confirming the player you were attempting to mislynch but got bored of waiting for was actually town.

[Frog Dodging]

Lurker speed lynching is fail.

So far I see a lot of stupid and very little scummy.

I'd like him to be staring at a few votes when/if he finally shows up.

I'd like him to be an exaple to everyone else who can't be bothered.

And you said it yourself.. time is not on our side. You convinced me.

Let's go through this in turn.

What benefit, exactly, do you get from us having votes when we turn up?

What makes you think we can't be bothered, rather than any number of other things that could have come up - personal issues etc?

Time may not be on our side, but that doesn't mean we rush. It just means we pack in the information density - in this game, we have to pack it in time rather than space, but the principal is the same.

Sex w/ shafteds wife club, why is it a shame that incam was being townie?

[whoami8]

Sex w/ shafteds wife club, why is it a shame that incam was being townie?

Because now he's a dead tracker.

[Frog Dodging]

Sex w/ shafteds wife club, why is it a shame that incam was being townie?

Because now he's a dead tracker.

Aye, but surely it's better that he looked town than that he looked scummy.

Also, perhaps it would have been better if people hadn't been spending their whole time shouting "OMG he's soooo town"

[whoami8]

Sex w/ shafteds wife club, why is it a shame that incam was being townie?

Because now he's a dead tracker.

Aye, but surely it's better that he looked town than that he looked scummy.

Also, perhaps it would have been better if people hadn't been spending their whole time shouting "OMG he's soooo town"

Yes why in god's name would I want people to stop bandwagoning an obv townie in a speed game? Shame on me!

[Frog Dodging]

Not the massive three person page 1 bandwagon! Damn, that goes to lynch all the time, gotta be vigilant about that sorta thing.

[whoami8]

There were five on the wagon. Suck one.

Also, what is your point? That we didn't like a wagon on a person who is now revealed town?

[whoami8]

Not the massive three person page 1 bandwagon! Damn, that goes to lynch all the time, gotta be vigilant about that sorta thing.

Learn to read. We need to lynch more than every 84 hrs. This is a speed game, we were wasting time on the Camn wagon.

[Raging Wishbone]

Lurker speed lynching is fail.

So far I see a lot of stupid and very little scummy.

I'd like him to be staring at a few votes when/if he finally shows up.

I'd like him to be an exaple to everyone else who can't be bothered.

And you said it yourself.. time is not on our side. You convinced me.

Let's go through this in turn.

What benefit, exactly, do you get from us having votes when we turn up?

What makes you think we can't be bothered, rather than any number of other things that could have come up - personal issues etc?

Time may not be on our side, but that doesn't mean we rush. It just means we pack in the information density - in this game, we have to pack it in time rather than space, but the principal is the same.

Sex w/ shafteds wife club, why is it a shame that incam was being townie?

I love this post... Did you really not read that he had been killed? I tend to agree with you speed lynching lurkers is fail, but I do agree with a few others who said this game needs to move quick. I have yet to speak with my partner since this game started yesterday, but for now I am going to unvote...

UNVOTE: Trotsky

I don't see anything scummy he has done per say, so unless my partner has something he wants to add I would prefer to look at someone else. Those are my thoughts after an intial read and without talking with my partner. I will talk to him and one of us will be back with a more substantial post later.

[Pesco Light]

The wagon on Incamnito grew way too quickly, imo. Pesco Light, especially, seemed to be voting for a comment the Mod said couldn't be backed up, due to talking about the other game.

Unvote, Vote: Pesco

Your vote is weak. Let me reiterate the backing of my vote.

And actually...

UNVOTE, Vote J-Scope

a) OMGUS! No answers for you.
b) My meta on J-scope indicates that you would normally jump on Pesco Light for wasting a vote on the Mod. Why didn't you?

And Zaphod.. my guess? J-Scope is scum with Pesco, and is Cross-bussing via the Beta game.

I take it you're serious about this

. Let's hear some reasons why.

It's not talking about any game but this one.

Why so serious

?

Ftr, I wasn't asking about his reference to beta at all. If you'd been looking at the 2 quotes, the common factor was the suspicion of J-scope and me. The first one I assumed was still RVS content and it being brought up again in the second,

I then took it as serious.

Pesco

[J-Scope]

The wagon had probably grown somewhat before the decision was made to kill Incamn, since we have had a few vote counts already today. I don’t think the reason Incamn was killed was because he had the most votes; meaning, I don’t think it was a vig kill because it was early in the day and I would think a compulsive vig would wait until the last minute to find the best target.

I’m not sure what stance the killer(s) would have publicly taken on Incman before killing him/her. I wouldn't be surprised with any since it was early in the day and reads are naturally weak anyway.

@Frog Dodging: Are you being sarcastic in any of your posts?

Here's a question for everyone - how many lynches do you think would be ideal in the next action block, if any?

We have to rely on lynches to find scum instead of power roles we can’t dictate or confirm even exist yet, and I think we should probably follow the same standards as deciding whether to lynch or no lynch on a day/night game. If someone looks scummy enough, let’s lynch them.

I take it you're serious about this. Let's hear some reasons why.

Vote Incamnito
FoS J-Scope

Does the FoS correlate to something in this game? If so, what?

I've been scum with both heads of the Yosariwen hydra. My expertise is unparalleled.

Have you seen town Yos and town Nuwen? What are the main differences?

So Yos noticed the tracker breadcrumb. why did you point it out so blatantly?

You mean Incamn’s post 8 and Yos’s post 14, right? Where was the crumb implied as specifically a tracker crumb?

The wagon on Incamnito grew way too quickly, imo. Pesco Light, especially, seemed to be voting for a comment the Mod said couldn't be backed up, due to talking about the other game.

Since your voting Pesco, do you think the wagon grew way too quickly from 0 votes to 3 votes, or from 3 votes to 5 votes? Or just quickly in general?

How do you read Incamnito’s original suspicion that had to be withdrawn because of the ongoing game rule? Do you think it was more a joke or more serious?

I saw Incamn’s vote as a means to get out of random voting and into serious discussion but not a confidant case of scumminess. Still it was probably enough to require a response from Pesco and myself.

[Yosariwen]

Yoswarian

: What did you hope to accomplish with this post? (other than mocking J-scope, that is)

Incamn's crumbing is neutral for now, as there are multiple data roles than can be of either alignment and would benefit from early crumbs. Currently a null tell.

wow just had sex with the wife ironically enough. No time for a post but have to say this deep south thing is exciting. Damn shame incamn was being so obviously townie.

So Yos noticed the tracker breadcrumb. why did you point it out so blatantly?

Actually, that was Nuwen, and I'm not sure why she did. I rather wish she hadn't, considering; I feel that it was a mistake. That being said, in a game like this, if a scum thought he or she had seen a town power role tell, the right move wouldn't be to make a big deal about it in thread; it would be to not say anything in thread and just quietly kill the person without making a big point of mentioning you figured out their role, especally since it looks like scum can both day talk and submit a kill at any time.

-Yos

[Raging Wishbone]

So I am really confussed about something in the rules. I thought all our power roles had to have selections in before Apr 27 (I'm sorry I could be completely wrong)....

If I am wrong and Incamito was killed by scum with five votes on him, why? Why would scum waiste that kill on someone who was wagoned so hard? Did he write something that really scared the scum team?

Now that I re-read the possible roles, You are totally right.

Tracker is only good if someone dies....
Doc.RB is good if we are lucky....

and who wants to follow the cop?

So lets get serious:

A) If you have a case, lets see it. Otherwise get off me!

B)
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox - Dont ask yourself questions if you aren't signing your posts! It is confusing. But At least you have opinions on things. Prob-town.
2. Apples and Banana - Die lurker die.
3. Zmd - Lets start playing now! KMD can't blame the time difference, can he?
4. Trotsky - I like your questioning Yos, I dislike you calling someone else asking the SAME THING "Fluffy".
5. Death the Hogfather - Die lurker die.
6. Incamnito - obvtown.
7. Yosariwen - Even with just a few posts, you look town to me.. and not JUST me. Strange.
8. Ortohoops - Die lurker die! And people DO TOO care!
9. sex w/ shafteds wife club - Probtown... but maybe I just like them trying to speed things up.
10. PoketheAlpaca - Die Lurking scum. And PF hasn't said

anything

!
11. Pesco-Light - I'm still waiting for you to re-ask your 'questions'. as if

>I<

need to be prod-voted.
12. Raging Wishbone - so many lurkers, so little time...
13. J-Scope - at least you have posted here and there.
14. Frog Dodging - are you here?


That said.. I propose lurker-speed-lynching now.

UNVOTE
VOTE FROG DODGING

That's a pretty in depth, articulate post, but nothing to crucify anyone with at this point, imo....

@Yosariwen and anyone else who cares to chime in... Did Nuwen out Incamnito as a Tracker?

[whoami8]

I don't get it. What does Portishead have to do with Zmd? It is an inside joke? I want answers!

Are you that dense?

Incamn's crumbing is neutral for now, as there are multiple data roles than can be of either alignment and would benefit from early crumbs. Currently a null tell.

p much

[Yosarian2]

So I am really confussed about something in the rules. I thought all our power roles had to have selections in before Apr 27 (I'm sorry I could be completely wrong)....

If I am wrong and Incamito was killed by scum with five votes on him, why? Why would scum waiste that kill on someone who was wagoned so hard? Did he write something that really scared the scum team?

From the rules:

6. A lynch will occur when more than 50% of the players have their votes placed upon the same player, or have their votes placed upon Nolynch. After the 50%+1 threshold is reached, the lynch will occur regardless of any subsequent posting. Kills will be posted in thread between 6 and 30 hours after I receive them by PM. I will attempt to randomize the delay as much as possible to prevent date/time type confirmation of kill source.

So the kill might have been submitted 6 hours before the kill, or it might have been submitted as early as 30 hours before the kill. If it's the second, then that would have been before Incam was at 5 votes.

@Yosariwen and anyone else who cares to chime in... Did Nuwen out Incamnito as a Tracker?

Nuwen spotted a possible breadcrumb by Incamn, and mentioned it in thread; it sounds like she did so because she was trying to figure out his alignment and if the breadcrumb should be trusted or not. It was a mistake, especally since the breadcrumb was truthfull, but not a scumtell, since there is no reason she would want to mention it in thread as scum.

-Yos

[whoami8]

unless she was further fishing for confirmation of said breadcrumb

[Ortohoops]

Lurker speed lynching is fail.

No, this isn't that stupid. This game has been going for ~46 hours. Players should have no excuse for lurking, this is why hydras have been brought in. Scum get to kill every 84 hours, this is a HUGE incentive to lurk, or at least stall the game.

Here's something for you to consider; in Flay's recent WIH theme game, scum were rewarded rage points weekly. There was a clear advantage for scum to delay lynches and generate rage points which could contribute to a town kill. Here is a small list of activity from this game;

--

Posts per day while alive;

populartajo

:

37.4 PPD

Xylthixlm

:

35.9 PPD

roflcopter

:

24.6 PPD

Albert B. Rampage

:

20.56 PPD

DrippingGoofball:

20.04 PPD

Kinetic

:

15.22 PPD

WaltWishbone

:

14.25 PPD

The Fonz

:

12.05 PPD

Seraphim

:

10.92 PPD

Tenchi

:

10.84 PPD

zwetschenwasser

:

8.09 PPD

q21:

7.6 PPD

Hoopla

:

7.00 PPD

Drench/FireStarter

:

6.2 PPD

Nuwen:

6.14 PPD

Juls

:

5.88 PPD

Guiseppe/Yosarian2:

5.58 PPD

Shinnen_no_me:

4.25 PPD

vIQleS

:

3.58 PPD

Cybele/WeyounsLastClone

:

3.45 PPD

Red = Scum.

With the exception of DGB, scum were in the lower portion of this list. And I have no doubt this game will generate a similar spread.

--

In this game, the advantage is even more severe - a kill every 84 hours! You can bet scum will be trying to stall this game. Here's my thinking;

Kill 1 and kill 2 are the times where we have the least information in the game, where the kill is closest to random. This means the percentage between thinking X is more scummy than Y is at it's potential lowest - and we're better off lynching X or Y based on percentages that can be made up in more beneficial areas. One of these areas is activity, and potential helpfulness later in the game. The second quality I've described is not really quantifiable, but ties in well with activity this game. We can't afford to leave a mid and endgame with a high percentage of players inclined to lurk. We either need to up activity signifigantly, or take a chance on lynching lurkers.

Here is an early list of posts per hydra. Remember this game has been going on for more than 46 hours.

sex w/ shafteds wife club

12

Zaphod Beeblebrox

9

Pesco-Light

7

Ortohoops

6

Trotsky

6

Yosariwen

6

J-Scope

5

Frog Dodging

3

Raging Wishbone

3

Apples and Banana

2

Death the Hogfather

2

PoketheAlpaca

2

Zmd

2

I would bet that there is at least two scum in the red zone and possibly the orange, which is where I'm going to cast a vote for now. More importantly though, the town needs to promote a more proactive approach toward activity and discouraging lurking. We need to lynch at least every 84 hours - and if some players can't commit enough time within that period to help orchestrate decent percentage plays, then they need to be eliminated before it screws us over.

tl;dr? Our best percentage play is lynching lurkers now on the basis of early lynches being closest to random. The percentage we may lose is lynching a possibly less scummy player is more than made up in keeping the most active players alive now. This boosts the average activity per player, and means the consensus for a lynch is more thoroughly discussed, which is good.

tl;dr 2: lynch lurkers please.

Vote: ZMD

, I know you two are both active.

[Death the Hogfather]

Why Seraphim is not posting here, I do not know.

Know however, that as soon as my V/LA is done, I will be posting as frequently as possible (of course, with AP exams for the next 2 weeks, of which I am taking 6, that may not be more than 2-3/day if I'm lucky).

-Kairyuu

[Raging Wishbone]

Lurker speed lynching is fail.

No, this isn't that stupid. This game has been going for ~46 hours. Players should have no excuse for lurking, this is why hydras have been brought in. Scum get to kill every 84 hours, this is a HUGE incentive to lurk, or at least stall the game.

Here's something for you to consider; in Flay's recent WIH theme game, scum were rewarded rage points weekly. There was a clear advantage for scum to delay lynches and generate rage points which could contribute to a town kill. Here is a small list of activity from this game;

--

Posts per day while alive;

populartajo

:

37.4 PPD

Xylthixlm

:

35.9 PPD

roflcopter

:

24.6 PPD

Albert B. Rampage

:

20.56 PPD

DrippingGoofball:

20.04 PPD

Kinetic

:

15.22 PPD

WaltWishbone

:

14.25 PPD

The Fonz

:

12.05 PPD

Seraphim

:

10.92 PPD

Tenchi

:

10.84 PPD

zwetschenwasser

:

8.09 PPD

q21:

7.6 PPD

Hoopla

:

7.00 PPD

Drench/FireStarter

:

6.2 PPD

Nuwen:

6.14 PPD

Juls

:

5.88 PPD

Guiseppe/Yosarian2:

5.58 PPD

Shinnen_no_me:

4.25 PPD

vIQleS

:

3.58 PPD

Cybele/WeyounsLastClone

:

3.45 PPD

Red = Scum.

With the exception of DGB, scum were in the lower portion of this list. And I have no doubt this game will generate a similar spread.

--

In this game, the advantage is even more severe - a kill every 84 hours! You can bet scum will be trying to stall this game. Here's my thinking;

Kill 1 and kill 2 are the times where we have the least information in the game, where the kill is closest to random. This means the percentage between thinking X is more scummy than Y is at it's potential lowest - and we're better off lynching X or Y based on percentages that can be made up in more beneficial areas. One of these areas is activity, and potential helpfulness later in the game. The second quality I've described is not really quantifiable, but ties in well with activity this game. We can't afford to leave a mid and endgame with a high percentage of players inclined to lurk. We either need to up activity signifigantly, or take a chance on lynching lurkers.

Here is an early list of posts per hydra. Remember this game has been going on for more than 46 hours.

sex w/ shafteds wife club

12

Zaphod Beeblebrox

9

Pesco-Light

7

Ortohoops

6

Trotsky

6

Yosariwen

6

J-Scope

5

Frog Dodging

3

Raging Wishbone

3

Apples and Banana

2

Death the Hogfather

2

PoketheAlpaca

2

Zmd

2

I would bet that there is at least two scum in the red zone and possibly the orange, which is where I'm going to cast a vote for now. More importantly though, the town needs to promote a more proactive approach toward activity and discouraging lurking. We need to lynch at least every 84 hours - and if some players can't commit enough time within that period to help orchestrate decent percentage plays, then they need to be eliminated before it screws us over.

tl;dr? Our best percentage play is lynching lurkers now on the basis of early lynches being closest to random. The percentage we may lose is lynching a possibly less scummy player is more than made up in keeping the most active players alive now. This boosts the average activity per player, and means the consensus for a lynch is more thoroughly discussed, which is good.

tl;dr 2: lynch lurkers please.

Vote: ZMD

, I know you two are both active.

Hoopla that was a tremendous post and it carries much merit, although I disagree with lynching ANY townie, imo.. We got 7 carrying over from War In Heaven (Me, you, ROFL, Tajo, Seraphim, Nuwen, and DGB)... can I PLEASE make a suggestion, we botched that game and should have won except for a few reason that were discussed during the post game "show"... It was destroyed by a difference of opinions on strategy; IE, some were playing survivor, some mafia. Some wanted to go fast, some wanted to go slow, some wanted to vote, some wanted to play cowboy...but in my opinion, the worst mistake we made as a town was trying to Speed lynch lurkers so early in the game... (thx Xyl). DONT lynch TOWNIES!

Also just remember me and you were two of the first three gone, lol, so yeah thx for bringing that up!

So I am really confussed about something in the rules. I thought all our power roles had to have selections in before Apr 27 (I'm sorry I could be completely wrong)....

If I am wrong and Incamito was killed by scum with five votes on him, why? Why would scum waiste that kill on someone who was wagoned so hard? Did he write something that really scared the scum team?

From the rules:

6. A lynch will occur when more than 50% of the players have their votes placed upon the same player, or have their votes placed upon Nolynch. After the 50%+1 threshold is reached, the lynch will occur regardless of any subsequent posting. Kills will be posted in thread between 6 and 30 hours after I receive them by PM. I will attempt to randomize the delay as much as possible to prevent date/time type confirmation of kill source.

So the kill might have been submitted 6 hours before the kill, or it might have been submitted as early as 30 hours before the kill. If it's the second, then that would have been before Incam was at 5 votes.

@Yosariwen and anyone else who cares to chime in... Did Nuwen out Incamnito as a Tracker?

Nuwen spotted a possible breadcrumb by Incamn, and mentioned it in thread; it sounds like she did so because she was trying to figure out his alignment and if the breadcrumb should be trusted or not. It was a mistake, especally since the breadcrumb was truthfull, but not a scumtell, since there is no reason she would want to mention it in thread as scum.

-Yos

Sorry I still don't get it, there was not 50% of the votes places on Incangnitoan? Alright so Nuwen made a huge MISTAKE? As far as my meta and previous experiences playing with her, she seems to think she is incapable of mistakes? I'm not sure I am buying this?

[Hoopla]

Hoopla that was a tremendous post and it carries much merit,

although I disagree with lynching ANY townie

, imo.. We got 7 carrying over from War In Heaven (Me, you, ROFL, Tajo, Seraphim, Nuwen, and DGB)... can I PLEASE make a suggestion, we botched that game and should have won except for a few reason that were discussed during the post game "show"... It was destroyed by a difference of opinions on strategy; IE, some were playing survivor, some mafia. Some wanted to go fast, some wanted to go slow, some wanted to vote, some wanted to play cowboy...but in my opinion, the worst mistake we made as a town was trying to Speed lynch lurkers so early in the game... (thx Xyl). DONT lynch TOWNIES!

I don't want to lynch townies. Lurker =/= townie

The main point I'm trying to get across is activity should be taken into account when selecting an early lynch, especially in a game like this. For example, you have two candidates you see at relatively even chances of being scum. The first is very active, the second isn't. Activity tilts your choice in favour of the lurker.

What if the same two candidates you saw at say 35% and 30% instead? I'd still lynch the lurker on the basis the active player is giving more information about their alignment and others, helping making future lynches more accurate. A 5% difference isn't taking that much of a gamble. What about 10% or 15%? What is the biggest margin you can sacrifice? My suggestion is that it's larger than normal.

--

Basically, in my previous post I'm trying to explain that when the gap between a group of candidates is slim, you're better off keeping players that can help and have been known to help the town.

[Yosariwen]

unless she was further fishing for confirmation of said breadcrumb

I guess. That's be a really high risk scum gambit with a really low chance of a payoff, though, especally with good players like incognito.

Ortohoops: Horray for lurker lists. Thanks for doing all that work, I'm usually the only one who bothers to make a lurker list and I'm glad to see someone else doing it. I agree with you, lurking in this game is incredibly anti-town and scummmy, more so then in a normal game.

Any specific reason you voted for Zmd out of those 4 people with 2 posts? Just curious; I'll probably check them all out for myself when I have a chance and vote for whichever one of them looks the worst, beause I agree with your logic here.

Raging wishbone: I quoted that because the second half of rule 6 talks about the rules for kills, not because of the part about lynching.

And yeah, since Incamn was actually a tracker, I think it was a mistake for Nuwen to mention in thread her thoughts about the possible breadcrumb; if Incamn had been scum instead, it wouldn't have been a mistake.

As for your last few sentances; I have no idea if she thinks she's "incapable of making mistakes", and I'm not sure what that has to do with my comments on her play.
-Yos