Open 130 - Vengeful Mafia (Over!) before 762

[molestargazer]

/confirm

[molestargazer]

Vote: Empking

Your lack of avatar is obviously a way to hide your guilt.

[molestargazer]

L-1 is only 2 votes. I don't think either Emp or K9 can be blamed. Emp was your first, K9 was evidently random.
Perhaps it would be a good idea for someone to unvote, just in case.

Any particular reason for your (failed attempt at) voting for TDC?

[molestargazer]

da only way zwet cud be lynch'd rite now iz if sum1 unvoted & voted him & if sum1 did dat rite now at dis stage of da game, dey'd be obvscum yo. y do u think itz a good idea to unvote?

I'm saying we should be on the safe side. Of course if the scum hammered now it'd be obvious - but it'd give them a chance to win and still leave the other scum hidden, since I don't think it's been long enough to reveal any connections.

[molestargazer]

Should we MOS it?

What'd you mean MOS it?

[molestargazer]

To the MoS thing - Personally, I'd much rather discuss and put our votes on with people who we think are scum rather than relying on chance.

I don't think suggesting it would count as a tell though - I've not read through the whole thing, 'cos I'm lazy, but I imagine it would be pretty risky for scum too.

[molestargazer]

Emp - If using the MOS idea doesn't change the town's chances of winning, why are we looking at how long it took zwet to disagree with it? Surely neither scum nor town would have a motive to agree (Or otherwise) with it?

[molestargazer]

Can we fast-forward over the Empking-policy-lynch-debate?

wut iz dis about yo?

I notice this still hasn't been answered.
Can someone fill us in?

[molestargazer]

Alright, I've got what I need to know. Let's move on, and as TDC said, skip the policy lynch debate.
If anything, it's bad for the town - policy bad play doesn't equal scum. If he's lynched, and is town, he's likely to vigkill those who voted - who don't necessarily equal scum either because it's a policy.

[molestargazer]

Well, that's assuming he knew it would make no difference..

At the time that Emp posted that, you yourself had posted that it would make no difference several posts earlier - and that analysis had been posted a few before that.
Despite my vote on Empking being random, I'm quite happy with it right now, on the little we have to go off on everyone.

How is it risky?

No matter which way the scum play it, they still have a chance of losing a member / the godfather.

[molestargazer]

No, I'm saying they're the same. I think it's not a tell to either push for or denounce the plan if the odds are equal.

[molestargazer]

There's always risk for the scum that one of them is going to be lynched. I don't mean it's more risky - but the chance is still there.

[molestargazer]

Mole; Do you honestly think that waiting forever to get a read on what town wants and then agreeing with the town isn't a scum tell?

I certainly see where you're coming from. However, I can't shake the feeling that

in this case

of MoS, it's fairly irrelevant, since even if he had disagreed, it wouldn't have been a scumtell in my eyes.

[molestargazer]

It might.
I suppose he'd better post and explain. It might be interesting.

[molestargazer]

TDC, what are your thoughts on mole's parroting?

?

[molestargazer]

Uh.. no. Was just posting what I thought at the time.
Certainly wasn't intended to copy anyone.

[molestargazer]

zwet's response wud be interestin here:

Precisely. I was arguing that it was not a scumtell - I never said that zwet's response wouldn't be interesting. It certainly is giving us information right now, such as the fact that Zwet's seemingly avoiding answering.

[molestargazer]

I find mole's claim that Emp's suggestion "would be risky for scum" (i.e. an argument for Emp being town) and subsequent back-pedal to

There's always risk for the scum that one of them is going to be lynched. I don't mean it's more risky - but the chance is still there.

more interesting than the zwet thing.

I don't see how that's a back-pedal.
Risky = There is risk involved.
If scum chose it, there would be risk.

[molestargazer]

In the same spirit I could claim that using the letter "s" is risky.
Because you know, if you use it, you can get lynched.

I don't get you. Can you explain further?

[molestargazer]

I don't particularly care about FoS counts.

I don't FoS regularly, I just vote. Since it largely depends on playstyle, it's a no from me.

[molestargazer]

Um, no.
There's no risk involved in using the letter S.

Scum take the MoS plan, they put their lives in the hands of probability. As do the town.
Scum ignore it, they get the same chance, which could be swayed by the way people play.
Hence, vouching for it (or otherwise) is not a scumtell. That is what I was trying to say to Emp.

[molestargazer]

Mod: Vote count?

You don't have a sense of humor, do you?

No, I'm a dry, boring old bastard. >_>
(But seriously. I don't see the funny side if it's me under attack)

Also, you still haven't answered Emp's question.

Unvote, Vote: Zwet

TDC -
- Do you think that my thoughts about MoS make me scum?
- Who do you think are the most probable scum right now?

[molestargazer]

I don't even remember your question, Emp.

The question.
A quick re-read would have given you that.

[molestargazer]

Zwet - Is it really that difficult to answer the question that you have to delay it for SO long?
Answer it, and I'll unvote if it's reasonable, it's the only reason I'm voting right now.

K9 - No, not forced. I don't like how he's putting it off.

[molestargazer]

lol this be like tellin a murderah that even tho he kill'd sum1 if he givs good reason why he did it he dont have to go to jail or sumthin yo

The vote was for pressure, not because I necessarily think he's scum.
I just want him to answer the question.

Lynch me if you like, but I assure you you'll end up with a dead townie, and just my shot to decide if we'll reach D2. And to be quite frank, I couldn't say decisively who I think is scum right now.

[molestargazer]

Yes, his refusal to respond does set off my scumdar. The vote is still primarily to try and encourage him to do so though.
I wouldn't lynch him based on this alone.

[molestargazer]

Like.. what?

It was a scummy action that they know they can't explain, so try to avoid it and change the topic to stop their lynch.

my point was mole keeps sayin "just answa da question n i'll unvote u!!!" almost lik he'z beggin him to do it so he cud unvote him alredy

i cant see why a townee wud keep at that for so long

I was just being careful.

vengeful killz only happen if da person hammah'd iz town

do u kno mole to be town yo?

This is a very good point.

I don't see TDC's unvote as a scumtell. We ARE only 5 pages in. I am town. He didn't want that hammer to happen (Although had it happened, I would've killed Zwet, which I'm pretty confident about).

Despite all the attention this case has been getting, Zwet still hasn't answered the question.
He was perfectly willing to hammer me because I'm pressuring him to answer a question, and as K9 pointed out, he seems to know I'm town but is perfectly willing to go on anyway.
I would be very happy with a Zwet lynch now. I'm confident enough in his being scum.

[molestargazer]

READ THEN.

[molestargazer]

I'm torn between thinking Emp is scum but then changing my mind.
Whilst Emp certainly started and pushed the question case against Zwet until about Page 4, after that he seemed to disappear until the lynch, unless I've missed it re-reading.

Emp - can you explain this absence?

[molestargazer]

I don't even remember your question, Emp.

I don't see how that answers my question.
After your Post 113, you did not post again until D2. Any reason why?

[molestargazer]

D1 was ridiculously short, so I don't really have a clear cut opinion of who's scum right now.

But if you had to guess?

Right.
We know there's 1 scum left alive, and still 3 of us. Which means, without nights, we have both today and tomorrow to kill a mafia member.

Me - Town.
K9 - Fairly sure he's town because of his hammer on Zwet. Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think it would be a good idea to kill him for being 'too town'.

Which leaves Emp, and TDC which are possible scum. To split between those two.. I don't really know.

Emp:

- Began the Zwet 'question' thing, and voted on the lynch wagon.

- Seemed to disappear towards the end of the day. Might not be his fault, but, whatever.

TDC:

- Unvoted to prevent Zwet hammering me

- Zwet was voting him at the end of the day. Could be distancing, could be anything, could be nothing. WIFOM.

I still don't know. Since we have 2 days, and this game is inactive, let's just go for it and see what happens.

Vote: Emp

I'm just getting a bit of a bad feeling about you.

[molestargazer]

1. You're doing it wrong. Read the avatar.

2. I don't understand you. As scum he could very easily have left Zwet to hammer, claimed he wasn't here to unvote in time (If indeed he was questioned, which would probably be unlikely), and there would have been nothing on him going into D2.

3. I didn't see the answer, he didn't make it clear. It was his own fault, and indeed, my continued attacks led the game to the point where K9 hammered.. I can't claim responsibility for it, no, but I continued to push the lynch regardless.

[molestargazer]

I don't really have a problem with that.

Unvote
Vote: TDC

[molestargazer]

wow i didnt expect dat quik of a hammah yo

id lik to think mole iz still town 4 da thing i thought wuz a slip from zwet but dat hammah worries me a bit yo

i

did

want mole to switch ovah since i thought tdc wuz scum just i didnt expect it to be dat quik esp if he wuz dead set on an emp-scum

Trust me, I wasn't dead-set on Emp-scum. I was divided between the two, I was happy to lynch either. I didn't particularly mind which.

Of course, no voting yet.

[molestargazer]

Empking - So who did you think was the scummier at the time of us two if you've given reasons for both of us being town, and TDC turned out to be town?

I hate being in this position.

[molestargazer]

K9 - Why do you think that his providing reasons that you were town means that he wanted to lynch you today?

[molestargazer]

K9 - I believe he was saying

K9 can't be scum because he wouldn't have hammered his own scum buddy if he was

.

[molestargazer]

Alright, it's decision time.

Vote: Empking

I'm really sorry if I'm wrong - and indeed, I'll kick myself. However.
- You claimed to have a stronger feeling for me being down on D2, but you simply said you didn't think I was bussing - I think the reason you chose for K9 was stronger.
- K9 hammered zwet - and to be quite frank, I've got a better feeling about him throughout the game.

I'll feel dumb if I got it wrong - but it'd be even worse if I chose K9 to hammer when I felt what I did about you.

[molestargazer]

GodDAMMIT.

Sorry town.
Very well played K9. I was fairly convinced of Emp's guiltiness.

[molestargazer]

And on this note, I should probably retire this account. I'm getting tired of talking like an idiot all the time haha.

Before it goes - who are you?

[molestargazer]

For what it's worth, I wasn't sure it was k9 either.

Emp's reason for k9 being town making no sense and mole not even letting me respond to k9's "case" were good efforts of covering it up

In hindsight.. yes, I should.
I thought I had it narrowed down, but evidently not.