Mini 775 - Hammersmouth Is Under Attack! (Game over)

[iamausername]

Why roleclaim that you're a username before the game has even started? Something smells fishy...

Find me a game where I haven't done that. It might be suspicious if someone else did, but for me, it's a null tell.

In one of my past games a certain player told me that the use of the word "fishy" is scummy. I even got voted for it.

I think the word "interesting" can be a legit scumtell, but I'm not seeing how "fishy" is.

Vote: Artem

Insert reference to previous game and/or some unappealing aspect of your physical features at your own discretion.

---

semioldguy! Imagine someone has a gun to your head, and is telling you that you must choose one of kirroha or PsychoSniper to be lynched RIGHT NOW. Who do you choose, and why?

[iamausername]

Huh? I don't think Artem has posted yet, right? O_o

Should he have done?

Why semioldguy?

His was the first name on the player list I didn't recognise. I've played with Artem and Percy before, and I've read some random game with Pablo Molinero in it at some point. And obviously, I recognise yours from the fact that you are posting in this thread right now.

[iamausername]

Percy already has 3 votes. Not a L-x situation yet, but the hammer is a silent killer. Watch what you say, the mafia are everywhere.

Why did you think this needed to be pointed out? Do you think a premature hammer was a significant risk at that stage?

Either way, I think we all agree that Percy = first real suspicious guy for the Day.

I don't like the way you presume to speak for the whole town in saying this.

Unvote, Vote: PsychoSniper

[iamausername]

Percy and Psycho could both be innocents making mistakes during the RVS, or could be scum slipping up. There is pretty much equal chance of both, so I do not think we should really get started on either of them right now.

The whole point of "getting started on them" is to try to help us figure out if they are more likely to be innocents making mistakes or scum slipping up. If we don't questions things because they might be coming from town or scum, we will never get anything done.

@iamausername and Farkshinsoup: You're voting Psycho for over-generalizing his suspicion to the whole town, but you're ignoring the fact that he's right. Percy's removal of the vote from somebody he FoSed is unusual. Why are you ignoring Psycho's point?

I don't think Percy's action was overtly scummy, but it did need further explanation. But since people had already asked him for further explanation, I had nothing more to add to that line of enquiry.

At this point in the game, my votes don't mean suspicion (

and neither does anyone else's, for the most part

).

Wrong.

Yes, getting started on us will generate content, but it won't be useful content unless one of Psycho, CJMiller or myself is scum.

Wrong.

If we're all town caught in a clusterfuck of vague reads, the scum will rub their hands and hasten this along until one of us gets lynched.

Exactly. If you think you know how the scum will react in the situation where Psycho, Percy and CJ are all town, how can you say that it won't help us catch them?

I'd prefer to keep my focus wide at this point.

I don't understand how this even relates to voting people you find suspicious vs. voting people for no reason whatsoever. You can keep a wide focus just as well while voting with your suspicions as you can voting at random.

Unvote, vote: Percy

Diescumdie.

Reasons are nice.

Percy, I sort of defended you a bit since I didn't believe that you were the mafia, but this post you made made me think twice. Are you buddying up to me, by voting for the person who showed some suspicion at me?

This is a pretty huge leap.

Sure, I can gather similar information as the day progresses, but the random vote stage makes it easy for everyone to contribute without having to weigh in on this case or that case.

If they're not weighing in on any cases, then what are they really contributing?

What, so "Filler." is saying something on topic? You said you had no idea why you said what you said, I asked for more information, and you just said "Filler."
Explanation now, please. You're avoiding the issue.

No, I think "Filler" was the answer to "why did you feel the need to point out that Percy had three votes?", and "I wanted to say something on topic" was an elaboration on what he meant by "Filler". So the pointing out Percy's number of votes was the wanting to say something on topic.

Of course, the attitude of "I wanted to say something on topic, so I wouldn't be seen as a lurker" is still something to be concerned about, whatever it's referring to.

I jumped on because I believed at that moment that Percy was the scummiest, therefore my vote would rest with him. I witheld my reasons for reactions, which I got.

As you've got your reactions now, could you possibly refrain from witholding your reasons?

I am not rushing a lynch. I am merely trying to put more pressure on Percy to see if he would actually react differently. When people are pressured, they would tend to give out scummish signals or pro-town signals depending on their alignment.

Well, this is pretty directly contradictory with the kirroha quote at the very start of this post. When exactly did you change your mind about this being a good idea?

Personally, I think your third "random" vote was just a red herring make us think that your previous vote was also random. At this point, my suspicion is on you and CJM being scumbuddies. He did something that looked odd (his warning about the number of votes you had may be him trying too hard to look town when there was no need to), you realised how that could have been interpreted as scummy, and you FOSed him as a warning. Then you were afraid that he might attract votes for that action, so you moved your own away for safety. I don't think you vote-switched was as "random" as it may seem.

This is all pretty baseless speculation, but it completely falls apart at the end, because Percy clearly tried to move his vote

before

CJ's warning, even if it didn't count due to lack of unvote. So it obviously can't have been done as a reaction to CJ.

---

over9000, where are you?

Unvote, Vote: kirroha

. Definite vibes of "trying too hard to look town" coming from this one.

[iamausername]

If it's just your intuition, it is not exactly very reliable since it's mostly based on luck.

Sure, you keep on telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

@Percy:

[snip]

Like I said, I find you anti-town, but that's mostly because I disagree with your playstyle. I don't think you're scummy.

QFT.

Now, I'm going to switch gears and talk about my role...

OK, could be that Artem is Godfather trying to draw a Cop, or Ninja trying to draw a Tracker. Those seem like the only scum roles that would have a reason to claim Self-Watcher. But it's more likely that he is on the level, IMO.

Assuming that is the case, I don't know that this was necessarily the best play, but I can see the logic behind it. Not a terrible decision, certainly.

I've decided to claim before any other role information was revealed, because in my head it would be more risky for scum to lie at this point. (In other words, you don't know whether or not I'm telling the truth, so I'm setting myself up for higher scum-risk, because I'm confident in the truth of my claim.).... (Yea, yea, I know - borders on WIFOM.)

This concerns me, though. Thinking about it in terms of "Would this be a good idea for scum?" and not "Would this be a good idea for town?" is really not how I'd expect a town player to approach the decision to claim.

Vote: Pablo Molinero

for discriminating against new players.

If you want to be handled with kid gloves, go join a Newbie game. You're in the big leagues here, son.

Also, why do you single out Pablo, when several other players have made essentially the same point as he did?

Please note that I have only read up to page 70.

Game's not THAT active! I'm guessing you mean

post

70?

From what you said I think you're just trying hard to squeeze things to explain your bandwagoning vote. If you had had reasons earlier, you would've posted earlier.

Really? You think scum would just leap onto a bandwagon this early in the game without any thought of what they could use to justify it, and not expect to be caught out?

I don't think kabenon's reasons for voting Percy are particularly great reasons; there's not a lot of explanation of why scum would want to do the things that Percy did that are supposedly scummy. But I think it's fairly silly to believe that he only came up with them after the fact.

Thus, I think you're just posting all these to make yourself seem more innocent. It is very scummy in my opinion.

So, if he was town, what should he do instead when people ask him to give his reasons?

Leading town=bad, over9000. Leading town=bad.

Only if you lead in the wrong direction. If you're leading the town to scum lynches, that sounds like a good thing to me.

You see, it's not like a pro-towner won't defend herself. Like for example, a pro-towner is being voted for. Would he just let himself get voted quietly, thinking, "Well, after I die, they'll gain valuable information" or would they defend themselves and try to convince the others to suspect someone whom he thinks is real scum?

And yet you say this as a point against kabenon:

Thus, I think you're just posting all these to make yourself seem more innocent. It is very scummy in my opinion.

Pretty big double standard there.

[iamausername]

From what you said I think you're just trying hard to squeeze things to explain your bandwagoning vote. If you had had reasons earlier, you would've posted earlier.

Really? You think scum would just leap onto a bandwagon this early in the game without any thought of what they could use to justify it, and not expect to be caught out?

These are not rhetorical questions, kirroha.

Thus, I think you're just posting all these to make yourself seem more innocent. It is very scummy in my opinion.

So, if he was town, what should he do instead when people ask him to give his reasons?

Neither is this.

You see, it's not like a pro-towner won't defend herself. Like for example, a pro-towner is being voted for. Would he just let himself get voted quietly, thinking, "Well, after I die, they'll gain valuable information" or would they defend themselves and try to convince the others to suspect someone whom he thinks is real scum?

And yet you say this as a point against kabenon:

Thus, I think you're just posting all these to make yourself seem more innocent. It is very scummy in my opinion.

Pretty big double standard there.

This isn't a rhetorical question either. Probably because it's not any sort of question. But I think it still warrants some sort of response.

---

This is how the day proceeds, whether we get out of the RVS sooner or later. But later is better - it's the best way to prepare us for the day.

It generates content for everyone

, and establishes personality reads that can be scrutinized later.

Bolded is the part that I entirely object to. By keeping things stuck in light-hearted silliness, you don't generate

content

, you generate irrelevant bullshit. And none of the supposed benefits you ascribe to your strategy are in any way unique to the random voting stage. You can still establish personality reads from what people say about actual game-relevant things, with the added benefit that they're also talking about actual game-relevant things.

While this may sound good, I prefer not to quote unquote lead the town anywhere, because if I am leading them in a direction I believe to be a scum lynch, one can never be one hundred percent sure, so I prefer to put out reasons why my direction is appealing, why I am heading in that direction, and then let the town decide for itself whether it wants to follow me, rather than lead. Does that clear things up a bit for you, username?

Sure. I mean, if you present reasons why your direction is appealing, and enough town decide that you're right to result in a lynch, well, I would say that you did lead that lynch. But splitting hairs about definitions isn't really going to get us anywhere useful.

But, kabenon, which direction

are

you heading in right now?

If you really think I'm scum, or "Too Townie", as you said - I can't stop you. There's a Wikipage on Too Townie.

"Trying too hard to look town" is not the same thing as "Too Townie".

"After all, it's what a Townie would do"... Is that supposed to be in a mocking tone? I'm not sure, but since the main reason why semioldguy and Artem have been suspecting me is "because I'm trying to appear Too Townie", and then you say "After all, it's what a townie would do."

That seems to also fall in place with what semioldguy and Artem have been accusing me for - for being "Too Townie". I'm sorry, but I don't find the posts you make "non threatening" and "trying to be helpful". In fact, in most of your posts, you come off as frustrated and rather angry to me.

And again, you keep on using this as a point against kabenon. If it's not a valid argument against you, then why is it a valid argument against him?

While this may sound good, I prefer not to quote unquote lead the town anywhere, because if I am leading them in a direction I believe to be a scum lynch, one can never be one hundred percent sure, so I prefer to put out reasons why my direction is appealing, why I am heading in that direction, and then let the town decide for itself whether it wants to follow me, rather than lead. Does that clear things up a bit for you, username?

A good townie never worries about looking scummy. Whoever you think is scum, VOTE FOR THEM! Don't hesitate. If you really are Town, you will truly regret it when you suspect somebody at first but is too afraid of looking scummy and end up saying, "I just knew you were scum!" when it's way too late. It feels like crap, trust me.

This is really not responding to what kabenon actually said. Nowhere in that post did he say anything about not voting the people he finds suspicious, only that he doesn't plan to be particularly forceful about urging others to do so.

---

CJ, so far, you have really shown zero indication that you are interested in finding scum. Do something about it, or I will be forced to conclude that you don't need to find them, because you already know who they are, because you are one of them.

[iamausername]

Over has a whole 4 posts to his name, one jumping on a semi-popular wagon and mostly misinterpreting kabenon007's words even after kabenon's exchange with me had (I thought) cleared it up.

The reason I have so few posts is that it appears I am in a far different timezone that the rest of you (US Eastern). Therefore, while you guys are able to actively partake in heated debates in real time, I am forced to be active only when my schedule allows it, which does not fall into any of yours. So, my posts are directed at the entire day, and by the time im next on a whole new page has been posted.

I never like this whole "I'm in a different timezone" excuse; I don't think there's been a particularly significant amount of 'real time debate' in this game, so this just isn't valid.

That said, the player analysis that you've done so far definitely looks good.

Hey, hey.

Hi, Sotty! Are you scum again?

That's a WIFOM. He jumped on a wagon without thinking of the consequences.

I doubt it. Jumping on the first wagon you see without thinking and hoping for the best would be incredibly short-sighted scum play. Even on the off chance that no one noticed it at the time, and it lead to a town lynch on that day, it would certainly get him in trouble before the end of the game. kabenon's been on the site for 2 years, I'm pretty sure he has enouh experience to know what a stupid plan that would be.

I certainly think it's possible that kabenon is scum, but I think whatever his alignment, he definitely did think about the consequences of his Percy vote.

And don't you think it's weird, the way that he tried directing suspicion to me, who is the one who has the most number of votes at the current moment? That's very scummy to me.

I don't think it's weird for him to direct suspicion at a scummy player, no.

If you still don't believe me, then I think maybe I should claim.

You're not that close to being lynched. Claims are a last resort only.

Then look at it this way. If it's valid against me, why can't it be valid against him? If you choose to say what I used against him is invalid, what you used against me is also invalid.

It can't be used against him because he's not actually trying too hard to look town.

But that's not the point. Your defence when you've been accused of it has always been "It's not scummy, it's perfectly natural for town to want to look town". By using at as a point against kabenon, you're clearly saying that it

is

scummy to try too hard to look town, thus completely invalidating your own defence. You could have said "No, it's not scummy", you could have said "Yeah, OK, it is scummy, but look! kabenon's doing it too!" but you're trying to do both at once, and that just doesn't work. You can't have it both ways. Either it is scummy, or it isn't.

Anyway, currently I'm thinking of whether to claim or not. Because my role can serve to tell the scum about the setup pretty well.

Don't try to scare people away from your wagon with scummy softclaims.

What do you want me to do? Whenever I do anything, it just makes you all think I'm scum.

You haven't actually done anything yet, so how would you know?

Unvote

because I will remain neutral for the rest of the day.

*headdesk*

Vote: Kirroha

for acting too scummy to be a citizen

Do you actually think this, or are you just saying it because you saw other people saying something similar?

I feel as though many people, some of whom are probably scum, just decided to land on CJ who, although obscenely anti town, hasn't techinically done anything scummy. Has he been...anti town? Yeah... lazy townie possible? Definitely. Scummy?

ehh.... not really. By the book, wagon hopping for the sake of wagon hopping is scummy.

And what do you call that kirroha vote CJ just made, if not wagon hopping for the sake of wagon hopping?

CJ Miller vs. Kirroha feels like bussing to me. I'd be happy at this point lynching either one of them.

I honestly don't think CJ would be smart enough to think of bussing his partners. If he turns out be scum, that would go a long way to clearing kirroha in my eyes.

---

Players like CJ are incredibly frustrating, because it's pretty clear that he would be playing exactly the same useless way if he was town or scum, and the chances are that he's town, just because there's more town than scum (unless CJ is the mod, of course). But either way, he's never going to be of any help to town, and we can't afford to let him slide by, because he might be scum.

We've given him plenty of chances to get his act together and do something to help the town, and it's clearly not going to happen, so

Unvote, Vote: CJMiller

(THAT'S L-1, Y'ALL)

CJ, what I would like you to do in your next post is claim your role. Don't copy out the whole role PM or anything like that, just tell us the name of the role. It's in bold and a different colour to the rest of the text, it should be easy to find.

[iamausername]

If we knew that CJMiller was a 100% confirmed townie, which he is not but let's say he is for the purpose of this question, what do you think would be the best course of action for the town to take under the assumption that his style of posting and voting does not change?

Obviously, leave him alive. Lynching a 100% confirmed townie would be immensely stupid.

Hey, hey.

Hi, Sotty! Are you scum again?

Hi

Nope. Are you?

Nope! Glad we cleared that up.

Players like CJ are incredibly frustrating, because it's pretty clear that he would be playing exactly the same useless way if he was town or scum, and the chances are that he's town, just because there's more town than scum (unless CJ is the mod, of course). But either way, he's never going to be of any help to town, and we can't afford to let him slide by, because he might be scum.

We've given him plenty of chances to get his act together and do something to help the town, and it's clearly not going to happen, so

Unvote, Vote: CJMiller

(THAT'S L-1, Y'ALL)

Plenty of chances? It's only page 8 and yet you are just willing to give up on trying to get him to provide any sort of content? A lynch -1 vote at that. I pretty much agreed with what you had posted before this. Why are you so keen to get an end to this day?

Yes, plenty of chances. Over a good proportion of these 8 pages, CJ has been asked, demanded, cajoled, to provide any sort of content by just about everyone else in the game, and he is still refusing to do so. I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure out the magic words that are needed to persuade someone to actually play the game they signed up for. If CJ is not going to contibute (and clearly, he is not), then he needs to die. Simple as that.

And please do not try to stretch the length of the day to meet some arbitrary guideline for what is acceptable. If we reach a point where a majority of players agree that one player should be lynched, THAT PLAYER SHOULD BE LYNCHED. We don't need to sit around discussing the philosophical implications of that lynch to make sure we use up all the time until deadline hits. Why are you so keen to make sure the day doesn't end yet?

So I'm supposed to post a wall of text every single post or I'm lurking scum?

Well, you know, just a single line that actually goes anywhere towards finding scum would be an improvement.

I doubt it. Jumping on the first wagon you see without thinking and hoping for the best would be incredibly short-sighted scum play. Even on the off chance that no one noticed it at the time, and it lead to a town lynch on that day, it would certainly get him in trouble before the end of the game. kabenon's been on the site for 2 years, I'm pretty sure he has enouh experience to know what a stupid plan that would be.

I certainly think it's possible that kabenon is scum, but I think whatever his alignment, he definitely did think about the consequences of his Percy vote.

WIFOM defense to a WIFOm accusation? That's kind of new.

No, it's not WIFOM to say that kabenon is smart enough to think about the consequences of his actions. If I was saying that this proves that he is town, that would be WIFOM. But see the last sentence.

I feel as though many people, some of whom are probably scum, just decided to land on CJ who, although obscenely anti town, hasn't techinically done anything scummy. Has he been...anti town? Yeah... lazy townie possible? Definitely. Scummy?

ehh.... not really. By the book, wagon hopping for the sake of wagon hopping is scummy.

And what do you call that kirroha vote CJ just made, if not wagon hopping for the sake of wagon hopping?

Considering you vote CJ later in this post, this screams irony. If Kirr is scum, then you realize CJ isn't scum. HOWEVER, while questioning Kirr's "wagon hopping" vote, you...vote...CJ... this is contradictory.

I was pretty clearly talking about

CJ

's wagon hopping vote. Idiot.

Various players were saying that the best thing to do would be to concentrate on a subset of the players

Who said this?

[iamausername]

You're right when you say they just play the same awful style no matter if they are scum or town so it's almost a coin flip lynch. When there are better cases out there, in my opinion at least, I don't want to lynch a player for just being bad. Right now if he keeps this up, I think he is best served as vig fodder. Unless the mafia Gods hate us and we have no vig.

This is a good point, actually. Vig kill would be better, and looking over the setup, it seems pretty likely that we have one. A lot of the possible roles seem to revolve around the "bulletsmith" role, which is not one I've ever seen before, and it's a really interesting idea. Outguessing the mod is bad, I know, but I think it would be odd for Tarballs to think that up (or steal it from whoever did) and then not actually use it as anything other than a false possibility to throw us off.

Unvote, Vote: kirroha

And no. I'm not one of those players who say “days must be at least 20 pages long!!” Lynches feel quick to me if they are pushed though while there is still other avenues of discussion going down or players that still need to add to the thread. Like Farkshinsoup and Over for example.

I kind of think there's always some other avenues of discussion going on, though. And there's really no one besides CJ that I think has got by without saying enough.

I mean, I get why this would feel like a quick lynch; the game's been going less than a week, it would certainly be unusually fast. But that's not a problem with this game, it's a problem with all the rest, normally people waste their first few days on random nonsense, and you get a few lurkers, and no one is really doing much scumhunting until several days into the game. That's not a problem we've had here; everyone pretty much got stuck in early, and has continued to make solid contributions throughout.

[iamausername]

I was not intending to have you lynched, I would have jumped on whoever the wagon was.

Wait, I thought you jumped on because you "believed at that moment that Percy was the scummiest". Was that a lie?

[iamausername]

Vote: Artem

for not voting on Day 1.

Vote: iamausername

for trying to abstract the content of this game.

and, a lot more significantly:

Like I said earlier, the quote I gave was not your response to somebody "picking thing up and throwing them back at you". It was not a clarification of your actions that somebody thought were scummy. It was an unprecedented statement explaining that what you are about to do is pro-town. I also believe that it was before everybody started pointing out that you're trying too hard to be pro-town. Your unwillingness to understand this point is just mind-boggling.

Vote: Kirr

I guess you mean that he wasn't voting at the

end

of day 1. Why is that scummy, exactly?

Still, that's an improvement, CJ. Keep it up, and one day, you'll be a real boy.

If there is a watcher that watched me last night, you now know the name of the role-blocker.

And if there is, it's probably worth coming out with it, since they're probably scum. There's no reason for a pro-town roleblocker to have targeted Artem, as far as I can see. I guess a jailkeeper might think about protecting him and block him as a side effect, but if it was me, I'd want to avoid messing up his results.

---

Seems pretty likely that there were scum pushing for a CJ lynch instead of kirroha yesterday, and Percy was pushing that the most, as I recall, so:

Vote: Percy

[iamausername]

Also, I think it's more than a little scummy not to have a vote when the hammer comes down.

That would be great if the question I'd asked you was "Do you think it is scummy to be not voting at the end of a day?". But it wasn't. The question was "

Why

do you think it is scummy to be not voting at the end of a day?".

Vote: Percy

for acting as separate from the town and other scummy behavior.

What other scummy behaviour?

So I'm scum for having the same opinion as someone else?

It's more the fact that you appeared to suddenly develop that opinion after several others had stated it, without ever having mentioned it before. Makes you look insincere, somehow.

---

So, three people followed my Percy vote in quick succession, and I am not happen with any one of them. Fark's reasoning is OK, but his constant fence-sitting regarding kirroha yesterday really does not reflect well on him. over9000 was coming across as town to me before, but Post #256 has single-handedly destroyed that read. CJ is CJ.

I'm not at all happy being on this wagon if that's the company I'm keeping, and Post #256 is just so bad:

I'll admit that my quick-hammer on Kirroha is very suspicious

You shouldn't; it wasn't. kirroha was caught red-handed, and I don't know why Percy doesn't appear to realise that. She claimed to have no internet access, this was proven to be an obvious lie. Short of outright saying "I AM THE MAFIA GODFATHER", I can't think of anything a more blatantly scum move she could have made. Everyone, town or scum, should have been falling over themselves to vote her as soon as semioldguy pointed that out.

So, that the fact that you admit that your completely reasonable hammer is suspicious, well that just looks like a guilty conscience talking, as far as I'm concerned. If you were town, you'd know that your hammer was completely justified, and you'd say so. You wouldn't say "Yeah, that was suspicious of me, but perhaps TOO SUSPICIOUS?"

Because, you're right. I offered no reason whatsoever for my vote.

And again, why admit to things that a) make you look extremely suspicious, and b) aren't even true? You did offer reasoning; semioldguy was right about kirroha's lies. That was very good reasoning. I can't help but feel that town-over would point this out.

Or, for that matter, ACTUALLY lynch one of my scumbuddies?

This one just confuses me. You did lynch kirroha, yes?

And what you said in that post has one very big scumtell to me. Yes, I know this is

HUGELY

reaching for tells, but I obviously had to at least point it out...

Which is it; one very big scumtell, or a huge reach? Because I really can't see how it could be both.

Why do you speak of the town as if it's a separate entity from yourself? As if you yourself aren't a part of the town but are just stepping in and pretending?

could be seen as bussing once

the town

all but knew she was scum

I don't think anything you've done has helped

the town

.

THE IRONING IS DELICIOUS

ergo:

Unvote, Vote: over9000

.

[iamausername]

Username: Attacking 9000 for using the term "the town" is ridiculous.

I know, that's sort of the whole point. Over9000 attacked Percy for using the term "the town", which is demonstrably ridiculous, since he did the same thing himself twice in the very post where he made that attack on Percy.

[iamausername]

Unvote

Vote: _over9000

Unvote, Vote: CJMiller

[iamausername]

And if we have a Vig, they should probably shoot CJ. The guy deserves to die, but I don't think he's worth wasting a lynch on.

If this was going to happen, it probably would have done last night. And even if CJ turned out to be town, I'm not sure I'd call his lynch a 'waste'.

Shit, you're acting like my English teacher. She thinks that 50 pages isn't enough answer to a 2-sentence question.

How about ZERO WORDS? Is

that

enough to answer these questions here:

Also, I think it's more than a little scummy not to have a vote when the hammer comes down.

That would be great if the question I'd asked you was "Do you think it is scummy to be not voting at the end of a day?". But it wasn't. The question was "Why do you think it is scummy to be not voting at the end of a day?".

Vote: Percy for acting as separate from the town and other scummy behavior.

What other scummy behaviour?

I don't think so.

And a new one for you: Do you think that voting for whoever has the most votes besides yourself is a good way to secure a town win?

Any time someone wants to hammer CJ is fine by me, because I don't believe for a second that he's actually going to answer any of these questions in a useful manner. I don't know why I'm bothering, really.

[iamausername]

OK, big question on my mind; Xtoxm, why on earth did you claim in twilight? You said you were worried about being lynched, but that obviously wasn't going to happen yesterday, since CJ had already been lynched at that point. So why not wait until today?

Results from Xtoxm and Artem would be good too.

[iamausername]

Claiming my action from last night would obviously be retarded, as I can potentially catch someone in a lie, or atleast force scum to claim truthfully out of fear.

That only makes sense if we're not at all concerned about catching

you

in a lie, which is really not the case.

I wouldn't object to massclaim today, though. Assuming two scum left, we could be in mylo tomorrow.

Because if I waited until today I would have no credibility. I felt claiming in twighlight would be the only way I had a chance of being believed. I also might have been vigged.

The only part of this that makes any sense to me is the concern about being vigged. If anything, I think that the timing gives your claim LESS credibility, since it shows that you're not worried about being killed by scum.

[iamausername]

That's 5 yay votes to 3 haven't-got-to-the-thread-yet votes, motion carries.

Now, what order are we going to do this in? I vote popcorn style with Xtoxm going first.

[iamausername]

I already claimed.

I meant claim your results, obviously.

Also, should we claim first and then list results once all claims are out? I think that might be the way to go.

I think everyone should claim their choices/results along with everything else. And Xtoxm should claim first.

just go next iam - it will speed things up.

I don't think that speeding things up should be a concern right now.

[iamausername]

I also don't think Xtox should claim the results right now, because if he has a positive, that may tip off a scum about whether they should claim vanilla or a fake-power-role.

IF he's telling the truth. The reason I want him to claim before anyone else is because I don't believe he is, and if he's scum, he'd have to guess whether someone used an action or not.

But since I actually trust Artem, and he wants me to go first as well, I guess I will. I'm a jailkeeper. N1, I targeted Fark. N2, I targeted Sotty.

I want Xtoxm to go next.

[iamausername]

Reasons I didn't jail Xtoxm:

1) He was under heavy suspicion yesterday, so the scum would likely figure he'd be blocked/tracked/whatever and send someone else to make the kill. That's also why I jailed Fark and not CJ N1.

2) If he is scum, the chances were that his claim would trip him up somewhere down the line anyway. Of course, I was expecting that since most everyone agreed that he was supicious, we wouldn't be letting him claim his results after everyone else. I pretty much took that as a given, because it seemed like common sense to me. Apparently not, though.

[iamausername]

Here's an idea...

Fark, Percy, PM target Artem. Iam Jails Kab/Sotty, lynch the other. If there is no kill, and they all target Artem, PM is confirmed town, and town aren't down any. Obviously if anyone fails to target Artem they are scum. If there is a kill, and they do all target Artem, Iam is scum.

Thoughts? Does that work?

I'm pretty sure it does. Possibility that Pablo is a mafia doctor, targets Artem and makes no kill, which would frame kab (assuming Sotty is scum, which I'm pretty sure is at this point). But we can afford a mislynch, and we'd get him the next day.

(From an outsider perspective, I could do the same thing as mafia roleblocker, but the same still applies.)

Vote: Sotty

.

[iamausername]

Well, it leaves you out of the equation. I appreciate that someone "knows" they're town, but you still need to confirm it to us.

Fark investigated him, so he can only be scum if Fark is.

[iamausername]

The only thing that worries me about Sotty is that semioldguy (Sotty's predecessor) went to great length to bus his partner Kirrhoa by looking up her activity. It's WIFOM, but that move bought semioldguy/Sotty quite a few townie points.

Sotty's predecessor was PsychoSniper. semioldguy was a townie who died on N1.

[iamausername]

Actually, is there a need for Percy to target Artem again tonight, when he's essentially already proven himself by doing so last night? (And pretty clearly breadcrumbing that he did on N1, as well).

Would it be better for him to give a bullet to Fark, so we have a 1-shot vig around as back up in case there's a flaw in the plan that we're missing?

[iamausername]

Wait, what? How are you sure I am scum?

-Scenario 1: Both iamausername and Fark are town. Then we must have a mafia RBer who targetted Artem on N1. The scum are in kabe, Sotty and Pablo. I would be inclined to believe Sotty is the Mafia RBer in this case, as Artem was not blocked on N2, and Sotty was RBed by iamausername - as the most dangerous outed powerrole at the time, I see no reason why the scum wouldn't block Artem.

This.

[iamausername]

XTOMX HEY I ASKED YOU SEVERAL TIMES WHO DID YOU TARGET ON NIGHT ONE PLZKTHXBAI

HEY PERCY XTOXM ANSWERED SEVERAL TIMES THAT OVER DID NOT SEND IN A CHOICE ON NIGHT ONE PLZKTHXBAI

Fark/Xtomx - Xtomx would have to be the Mafia RBer who blocked Artem on N1, as Fark was blocked by IAAUN. However, there was an NK, so that makes no sense.

This logic also applies to Fark/Sotty and Fark/Pablo. The only pairs that make any logical sense to anyone if kabe is town:

Sotty/Pablo (<---- IT'S THIS ONE. THIS IS THE SCUM.)
Artem/Percy
Fark/iam

and, since you didn't mention it:

Artem/Percy: Fark investigates Artem and gets a guilty. Scumbags busted. Or one of them kills Fark, but hey, still busted.

[iamausername]

The only difference in the plans is jailing Fark instead of me, which I think is spurious anyway in the case Kab is scum.

I think you're looking at the wrong Percy plan. It's this one:

Thus, we lynch kabe. If he's not scum,

Xtomx tracks Sotty
Pablo protects Artem
Fark investigates Artem
IAAUN blocks Sotty
Percy passes to Sotty

[iamausername]

Alright then. Let's get on with it.

Unvote, Vote: kabenon

[iamausername]

What?! Artem died, that means Pablo didn't protect him, because Pablo and Sotty are scum. Why are you voting for me?

[iamausername]

Xtomx tracks Sotty
IAAUN imprisons Xtomx
Fark investigates Artem
Pablo protects Artem
Percy passes to Artem

Fuck, the plan was flawed, you should have tracked me.

If you got a result, it means Sotty blocked me, and Pablo killed Artem. If you didn't get a result, it means my jailing worked like it was supposed to, and either Sotty or Pablo killed Artem. Which is it?

[iamausername]

Actually, if you got a result, it proves that Sotty is scum, because he shouldn't have a night action at all.

[iamausername]

X, what was you result last night?

[iamausername]

And you can put a sock in it Iam, I caught you.

I'm fucking town, so your plan was flawed, and I would like to figure out why rather than lose the fucking game. WHAT WAS YOUR RESULT?

[iamausername]

Fark/Xtomx - Xtomx would have to be the Mafia RBer who blocked Artem on N1, as Fark was blocked by IAAUN. However, there was an NK, so that makes no sense.

...unless Fark is a hitman.

No, because then Xtoxm couldn't have blocked Pablo last night. OK, Xtoxm is definitely town, he's just an idiot. Fuck.

[iamausername]

Sotty did not visit anyone.

How does this make me scum? I jailed you, so you got no result even if Sotty did do something. So he or Pablo could both have killed Artem, there was nothing to stop them.

[iamausername]

Nope. I get "No result" if i'm blocked.

Are you absolutely certain about that?

[iamausername]

OK, so someone blocked me. It can't have been Sotty, because then you'd have got a result. So Sotty's partner blocked me, which means Sotty had to make the kill, which means he must be a ninja, or you'd have got a result.

Or, Sotty is not scum, and some group with Fark/Pablo/Percy has been cleared incorrectly. Hang on.

[iamausername]

OK, so someone blocked me. It can't have been Sotty, because then you'd have got a result. So Sotty's partner blocked me, which means Sotty had to make the kill, which means he must be a ninja, or you'd have got a result.

This doesn't work, because Sotty's kill would have been blocked when I jailed him. And with a ninja/roleblocker pair, the ninja is obviously the one to make the kill.

Or, Sotty is not scum, and some group with Fark/Pablo/Percy has been cleared incorrectly. Hang on.

This does work. Fark is a hitman, so my jailing him on N1 didn't block his kill. That's one possible explanation, there could be more.

[iamausername]

Yeah, pretty sure it must be Fark/Pablo.

Vote: Fark

.

And since supposed to be my partner anyway, this is the better vote, no?

[iamausername]

Tonight, Xtoxm should track me, I'll jail no one. Percy passes a bullet to Sotty.

That way, if anyone dies, Pablo is proven scum, because Xtoxm will know I went nowhere. If he no kills, we can lynch him or me and Sotty can vig the other. Problems?

[iamausername]

Tonight, Xtoxm should track me, I'll jail no one. Percy passes a bullet to Sotty.

That way, if anyone dies, Pablo is proven scum, because Xtoxm will know I went nowhere. If he no kills, we can lynch him or me and Sotty can vig the other. Problems?

No, Pablo could kill X, then we wouldn't have his result.

I'll jail Pablo. Then he can't kill, Sotty gets a bullet, it doesn't matter which one of us is lynched, because the other will be vigged. Perfect.

[iamausername]

Daaaaaamn. Really wish I hadn't just given into the the switch from Sotty to kabenon on D3, because I was pretty sure kabe was town, but I honestly thought we had it in the bag at that point.

My reads were really on point like all the way through besides thinking over was scum, but the night actions on N2 just didn't seem to fit.

And yeh, this loss is pretty much my fault. 3rd game I recognise as such

Nah, we're all just as guilty of not checking the plan well enough for flaws. I totally forgot about the ninja and hitman roles when I was looking through it.

[iamausername]

There was a twist in this game: All mafia members only had 2 bullets at start of the game, and the only way for them to get more bullets was by having a Bulletsmith send some for them.

Telling us the game is semi-open and then putting in hidden twists seems kind of bastardy to me.