The 'theory' is backed up by absolutely nothing, and so there's nothing I can respond to it with. What did you expect me to say? He's saying 'maybe you're scum and doing x', while I see it as 'I'm town and I'm doing y' - both are fingerquotes "valid", but there's no reason to favour the first one imo.Korts wrote:I really don't like this; GC has a valid theory, and Xdaamno evades it by attacking the form in which the point is made rather than its contents.Xdaamno wrote:I know it's a major part of your arguing style, but can you avoid being intellectually dishonest? I try and not make claims such as "...all this crap you're spewing" until I actually feel I have already proven why I believe that. You put those kind of things at the start of your argument, which is just annoying to read.
Dosen't need responding to, as I noted above.Green Crayons wrote:I read this as: "Here's a bunch of BS to explain why I didn't remove the vote because I made up the reason for the vote after the fact." I'm curious if anyone else sees it this way.X wrote:Perhaps the vote is obsolete. I haven't done the mental legwork to decide if I think it is or not. Therefore, the 'expected value' of pressure from this vote is still above 0 (and would be even if we all believed otherwise, because we could all potentially be wrong.) If there is no negative to keeping my vote here, I'm drawing a net positive and so it's not worth removing.
Provide your reasoning.camn wrote:Top three rocks.
Mine =
Ether
skitzer
Xdaamno
What is it about DizzyIzzy's 250 that you found toPost 251, Patrick wrote:Hm. That makes me feel better about your alignment.
Scum slip or a hypothetical?Post 261, camn wrote:If I am scum, and I run up a townie[...]
Why?Incognito wrote:Perhaps I was a bit presumptuous when I said "if Yosarian2 was town I think he'd know better than this" since, now that I think about it and now that we've gotten answers from him, I do agree that claiming Miller as scum in the manner he did would probably be worse play for him as scum than as town, but I do hold by the belief that if he's telling the truth, his choice and the manner in which he claimed is terrible.
It's more of a gut thing, or I'd probably have said something more at the time. I like that her thoughts on charter seem to be running similar to mine, and I agree with her read of Yosarian's responses. I certainly didn't agree with everything she said in the post. The whole top three thing hasn't particularly interested me either: I think it's largely taste whether someone likes to give lists or not, and I don't think Ether asking for one says anything about her alignment. A much better reason to suspect Ether is the post she made voting Yosarian, and I'm surprised that you don't seem bothered by that at all. As for your issues with her post, I don't find them especially compelling, though I'd rather let her defend herself from those first.Incognito wrote:What is it about DizzyIzzy's 250 that you found to like?
I still don't get why the choice and the manner in which he claimed is terrible. Is there some special reason why a miller claim should come right at the start of day 1 instead of half way through it? Or something else that's terrible? If he wanted to get reactions with his claim, I'd say it worked.Incognito wrote:I do agree that claiming Miller as scum in the manner he did would probably be worse play for him as scum than as town, but I do hold by the belief that if he's telling the truth, his choice and the manner in which he claimed is terrible.
I just don't see what was wrong with Ether's vote. The post in general struck me as very town-ish (making it a point to mention that she can't even see you or me as scum with Yosarian2 the way OGML suggested while voting Yos2), and I really don't interpret it as scum being opportunistic the way other people have seemed to.Patrick wrote:A much better reason to suspect Ether is the post she made voting Yosarian, and I'm surprised that you don't seem bothered by that at all.
Answer, plz?Post 247, Incognito wrote:OGML:My linking toonetown game where I handled a miller claim in a similar manner to here was enough for you to automatically write me off as town? Why?
Your problem is that you're looking at it from the persopective that "Izzy suspects these people" not "Izzy finds these people the most suspicious". There's a difference. I don't support the lynch either of them right now. Just because they're the most suspicious people in the game, doesn't mean I necessarily think they're scum. I don't particularly believe anyone is supicious enough to be worth a vote yet. That should tell you enough to go on.Incognito wrote:Catching up.
DizzyIzzy's 250 actually makes me feel even better about my vote. Her position on Yosarian2 seems extremely wishy-washy to me despite the fact that he's apparently "clearly ahead of anyone else in the suspect pool". Judging by her interpretation of his actions, I certainly wouldn't have been able to determine that she found him scummy from her post -- she seemed to lean town on him as she mentioned that she is "less likely to vote for him" since he's making sense. Her reasoning for suspecting Ether is terrible; I can't see how a person asking for a top three list from another person could be interpreted as "scum looking for consensus targets to bandwagon" when Ether has seemed to make it quite clear that she finds DizzyIzzy in particular scummy. Why would an Ether-scum ask for a top three fromsomeone who she considers scummyin order to obtain a "consensus target"? That makes absolutely no sense.
I'd also like to note that her top two suspects just so happen to be the two people who are receiving the most attention at this time, and I don't think you can genuinely find both Ether and Yosarian2 at the same level of scumminess with one another considering the fact that the two of them have seemed to take opposing positions on one another. I'd think you either support one or the other or support neither of the two. The whole post looks really contrived to me.
Yes, I did. It made plenty of sense to me from a town perspective, especially if she genuinely thought Yosarian2 was scum due to the contradiction I pointed out from the MD thread. I'd like for her to defend herself though since that's not my territory to do so.Patrick wrote:You saw that post astownish? I don't see how making those observations would be less likely to come from scum, especially if Yos2 is town, which I think he is. That whole post seems like a pretty easy one for a scum to make, actually.
I don't see the difference between those two statements. My vote is on you right now but that doesn't necessarily mean I want you lynched right at this moment either. My vote is my indicator that I find your behavior suspicious and worthy of further attention. I assumed your top three meant similar, otherwise I can't see why you'd even produce one in the first place even if someone asked you to provide one. You'd just say "nobody's really suspicious enough to me at this time for me to be able to produce a top three".Post 287, DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Your problem is that you're looking at it from the persopective that "Izzy suspects these people" not "Izzy finds these people the most suspicious". There's a difference. I don't support the lynch either of them right now. Just because they're the most suspicious people in the game, doesn't mean I necessarily think they're scum. I don't particularly believe anyone is supicious enough to be worth a vote yet. That should tell you enough to go on.
So do you think Ether hasn't formed solid opinions of the game yet? Also, do you honestly think a hypo-Ether-scum could logically demand a top three from a hypo-you-town, a person she "suspects", and then once she receives that top three, automatically use your top three to drive her own "suspicions"?Post 287, DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Silly, arbitrary and generally unhelpful except maybe to scum who are looking for something like I poosted from a person who has yet to form solid opinions of the game.
No, primarily because there aren't any. I've only started 2 games that have been completed on MS, in both of which I was scum. In all my other games, I've replaced in.Incognito wrote:Can you also link to a recently completed game where you've been town? I can't seem to find any.
Pfffffft. (hand guesture)OhGodMyLife wrote:I will have a real post later, but seriously, Yosarian2 and Patrick are scum, and there is no miller.
DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Provide your reasoning.camn wrote:Top three rocks.
Mine =
Ether
skitzer
Xdaamno
This is my reasoning.DizzyIzzyB13 wrote: It's arbitrary. I mean, if you ask someone to name the top three ways they'd like to die, it doesn't mean they're ready to die right now.
I like that example Izzy, I'll have to remember it.camn wrote:DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Provide your reasoning.camn wrote:Top three rocks.
Mine =
Ether
skitzer
XdaamnoThis is my reasoning.DizzyIzzyB13 wrote: It's arbitrary. I mean, if you ask someone to name the top three ways they'd like to die, it doesn't mean they're ready to die right now.
I LOVE top threes BECAUSE they are arbitrary.
I am not as bone-chillingly logical as you guys... I like to arbitrarily pick out scum, and start asking them questions, and see what happens.
And, if I may say, I don't do too bad with it.
THIS GAME, however, I am surrounded by awesome, and so far mostly I am taking notes on how to improve my game. Plus I am watching, waiting for the right time to go crazy.
I noted this too, and he's been pretty consistent with his "ignorance" all game. Despite what he said, I really do get the feeling that he's not reading the thread, which is awful no matter his alignment. I'll need to do a meta-read of him to see if his self-described "always being lynched for looking scummy as town" matches up with his play here.Green Crayons wrote:X ignoring the last bit of Incog's 279 does not surprise me.
I took this out of context, but I did want a response about this. It reminded me very closely of something you did in a previous game where you were scum.Post 279, Incognito wrote:Scum slip or a hypothetical?Post 261, camn wrote:If I am scum, and I run up a townie[...]
I'll come back to them, I just didn't have time then. Whcih should have been on the end fo my last post, but I appear to have screwed up posting.Incognito wrote:I had like five other questions in my 288 that Izzy pretty much ignored. Nice.
Well, Hypothetical if those are my only options.Incognito wrote: camn:I took this out of context, but I did want a response about this. It reminded me very closely of something you did in a previous game where you were scum.Post 279, Incognito wrote:Scum slip or a hypothetical?Post 261, camn wrote:If I am scum, and I run up a townie[...]