Mini 771 - Mafia in Ludd: Game Over

[Ether]

Camn, I don't think we've ever spoken, and I have some news you probably don't want to hear. First, you should become a mith minion. If Incognito has mentioned our enlightened organization you you at all, he has been feeding you lies about it.

Also he's probably scum.

vote: Incognito

[Ether]

Izzy, miniondom is an icebreaker and a way to annoy Glork without really annoying him

(most of the year)

. But really, you should be asking not what Lord Mith can do for you, but what you can do for Lord Mith. You should help me recruit more minions.

You should also help me lynch Incognito. That vote was serious.

[Ether]

...

Counterproductive.

I spoke to Incognito last night, after he got back from his weekend trip. A few hours after he'd gone to bed, I got back a PM from Vollkan clarifying a question I'd asked about his ruleset. (Size 8 text is legal.) But he didn't open the thread until today. Another PM told me specifically that this was because he didn't have all his confirmations yet.

Incognito could have confirmed last night, and it would still have been nearly 48 hours after PMs were originally sent out. If he hadn't had anyone to check in with, I think he would have.

[Ether]

That's a false dichotomy--the fact that I'm a minion doesn't make me any less of a friend to Incognito. In fact, has he ever bought

you

delicious bacon?

What do you think of my vote?

[Ether]

Irrelevant. If Camn had bacon, she would be free to prepare it in any manner she wished.

Incognito, you know that I don't bother with joke-votes; of course I was serious. Your link weakens my point, but doesn't entirely counteract it--your access was still more limited than that of the rest of the cast. If you didn't put off your confirmation, who did? (Rhetorical question; of course, anyone else can feel free to speak up.)

Having said that, charter's vote is also making me twitch.

[Ether]

Canary/Korts, yes, I do expect scum to try to stall a bit for a quick exchange. That's not exactly what Korts asked: if a player is on limited access and still confirms at the first opportunity, it's null.

I wasn't aware that that was the case with Skitzer; I'll

unvote; vote: DizzyIzzyB13

. Canary's case in 31 was not persuasive--it was terrible, and Izzy's support there feels even worse. (I also don't get why she voted Skitzer when she just said this wasn't the only such game he was late in, though she's unvoted since then.)

I, too, want Camn to elaborate on her experiences on Charter. I find the game results Canary pointed out interesting, but not really sinister.

[Ether]

I voted for skitzer since I noted a lack of activity and was attempting to provoke some. Also, I believe if you re-red my post, I agreed with one part5icular argument Canary made, not the entire post.

I did skim a bit after "Green makes a persuasive argument," but Camn was not making a case against Charter. She was saying that she always finds him scummy. Her vote was a joke. (Do you find her scummy?) I still want her to elaborate on Charter's meta, though. Don't really get what you're saying in the first part of that quote; noting a lack of activity is kind of eh on post 18. I don't really care enough to push this point, though.

I don't get Canary's SkitzFoS. He can correct me if I'm wrong; the paragraph just reads to me as, "Camn's vote was dumb, but not scummy." It wasn't fencesitting.

I get OGML's Patvote, but plan to give him some leeway early on--he's worried that he's lost his bearings. I am also going to blatantly fencesit on Korts because I am tired.

[Ether]

I could flip to Xdaamno or Korts. I'm all for Xdaamno accepting Patrick's defense--except that he's still voting him. Which is it? (For the record, Patrick's starting to feel better now, though I don't get why he interpretted my 76 as support.

After starting this aside with "for the record" I was half-tempted to load it with more qualifiers but I won't.

)

Camn, what do you think of Izzy? (And you still haven't answered my questions about patterns you're used to from Charter, but whatever.)

Izzy, what do you think of Xdaamno, Korts and Yosarian2?

I also am noticing that Dizzy comes out with almost the exact same case as Ether did, only on Skitzer, not Incog... but Dizzy catches a lot of heat for it, while Ether catches NO heat. What is the difference exactly?

Skitzer was gone across the board--if he sent in confirmations to multiple games at the same time, that wouldn't imply that he was putting them off; just that he'd been held up. In contrast, I thought at the time that Incognito had stalled in sending a confirmation

after

picking up his role PM. And personally, my Izzyhate is pretty much unrelated to her Skitzvote anyway.

I'm pretty sure the town reads on me have little to do with the above, either; they're almost certainly meta. (I'm a bit bitter about that...I feel like my grip on this game could be much stronger than it currently is. But I'll take it.)

[Ether]

Meh.

On an unrelated note, the timing of your unvote implies that you're not scum with Xdaamno.

[Ether]

I have stopped reading the Xdaamno/Canary spat. I'm interpreting Xdaamno's failure to have voted anyone else as him not actually finding anyone else scummy. Correct me if I'm wrong.

(For the record, Patrick's starting to feel better now, though I don't get why he interpretted my 76 as support.

I thought you were mildly supporting his reasons for voting me, have I somehow misread that?

That is what I was doing. Heh--looking back at your 85 I think

I

misread your interpretation. I'm not sure what you were getting at with "strange," looking closer. I agreed with OGML and

didn't

vote you for it.

I am eagerly awaiting Korts's catchup post.

[Ether]

Patrick, what was weird about my agreement?

I don't agree with Canary's take on Izzy at all; at the same time, I acknowledge that much of my distrust for her is for reasons that are true for other players--particularly Xdaamno. I want both of their top threes. (But the reactive vibe isn't all of it--Izzy's 32 still sets me on edge. Even if she insists that she was being neutral on Camn, "Green makes a persuasive argument" right after he voted her just feels wrong there. I also dislike her recent 155.)

(As for Canary's criticism of my own play--yes, I did assume that Incognito was the only player on vacation at the time, and when I learned otherwise, I thought my reasons for not moving to Skitzer were self-explanatory until Camn brought it up. My comment about fencesitting on Korts was self-deprecating humor, not a knock on you. My activity rate is a fair point, though.)

[Ether]

Patrick, I worried about you very early on in i10, too, before moving on, even if I didn't say it out loud. There it was more anxiousness for you to post; here your posts on Page 1 actually bugged me a bit. I twitched at your apathetic acknowledgement of my Incogvote, and again at that vagueness with Skitzer in your 20. Yeah, I dismissed it, but it was there.

I'mma

unvote; vote: Yosarian2

. Filtering his posts, there's just not a lot there. And I hate the claim. (I don't think Incognito is scum. The Patrick/Yosarian connection is too blatant for my tastes as well.)

Having said that, I would

still

like Izzy's and Xdaamno's top threes, and I am

still

eagerly awaiting Korts's catchup post.

[Ether]

I've slipped behind, and I've only skimmed the last few pages. I'm a bit preoccupied right now--don't expect a proper post until Friday evening at the earliest.

[Ether]

Sometimes, I don't like myself very much. I woke up much less enthusiastic about my Yosvote than I was when I placed it, finding myself under suspicion that I...didn't really disagree with, and put off addressing it. (On Thursday, I

was

doing a programming cram, but that's Thursday.) This is a recovery mode post; I won't really feel comfortable until I'm interacting again.

Izzy's 250 bugs me, putting both me and Yosarian in her top three. The second part of her case on me is bullshit--I do not need her opinion to bandwagon people, thank you very much. I didn't get what Patrick saw in it at the time, either. (Epilogue: Incognito is stealing my lines.)

The "look at Xdaamno's posts [up to 253]" method: Canary town. That's it. There's a reason I asked Xdaamno and Izzy. I'm assuming from the fact that Xdaamno's keeping his Patvote here without any update on his view of him that he is not in fact particularly suspicious of anyone else at this point. (Xdaamno has this pattern of getting into theory arguments without commenting on his reads of players. Urgh.)

I don't get Camn's 261 case on me at all. I pushed Incognito on a point you agreed with. It was proven incorrect. I got off. I started interrogating/voting other people. What exactly is the issue here?

Kort's 265 is also beyond my comprehension wheeeeeee belated easy self-defense I could have done last week. I am all for directing suspicions.

For all I say about Izzy, Charter's 305 push on her feels

weird.

Ether's inactivity is less supicious. I haven;t seen her in scumchat for a few days, and she hasn't been posting. I'm willing to let that slide.

To be fair, I'm rarely in ScumChat anyway anymore, and this is my only game. I'm around. I'm almost certainly more likely to lurk as scum. I should totally be posting here more.

OGML, that is too many quotes don't do that again.

There.

Yosarian's claim still bugs me. I don't think OGML's insinuations are necessarily valid, but I won't get into that. What I

like

about his play is self-defense and Caffhate, and I do not have the confident meta on him he attributed to me. (Recently, I said I did, but I had a good taste in my mouth from catching a specific townish slip in 728. See 720 for details.) I'll

unvote

, which is shorthand for meh I'll put this off.

I'm WIFOMing myself over the Charter/Izzy interactions, and I want someone to explain Xdaamno's meta to me. (I'm not going to skim his other games myself right now. It's a schoolnight.

Was

a schoolnight.)

So hey, Korts. I just toiled through seven pages. What's up?

[Ether]

I woke up much less enthusiastic about my Yosvote than I was when I placed it, finding myself under suspicion that I...didn't really disagree with, and put off addressing it.

Yosarian's claim still bugs me.

Clarification: in a probably-townish-but-meh sort of way.

[Ether]

Canary, I have no idea how I'm going to wind up from here. It worked last time, and I do feel better. (That whole "posting after midnight" thing has apparently not gone away yet. It

feels

early, dammit.)

As we've established, Yosarian's Caffhate has not been a problem to me. I don't see the harm in him answering Korts's question, but it's a dumb question. The sinister motivation for backing up would be caring more about getting me lynched than about how scummy I actually am, but he was wavering on me by that point.

I like Izzy's vote, actually, even though it's easy to make--I like the Kortshate. I want him to elaborate on his specific Izzyvote there; it cannot seriously be her pressuring him to catch up.

However, to be helpful, I suggest that he force himself to read all or almost all of the thread in one sitting, keeping up a notepad window to cover stuff that interests him as he's going along. Don't force yourself to be really elaborate. Rantbuddies are also nice. Try to start early in the day and get eight hours of sleep; getting eight hours of sleep is pretty cool.

Charter, you were in the second game Incognito linked to--what do you think of Xdaamno?

Camn, do you find Charter scummy? (Heh.)

Ether: Are you scum?

No.

[Ether]

Hmm. Camn, what was the deal with your vote and unvote, anyway?

I'll look up your meta tommorow, going to bed now.

He's town.

[Ether]

Charter's on, like...

everyone's

peripherals. It's creepy.

Having said that, I'm going to shamelessly hop multiple bandwagons at once with an

unvote; vote: Korts

.

I'd already unvoted in 387, but that's okay.

(I want Camn to link to the game she cited, but I won't support an Xdaamnolynch outside of deadline circumstances.)

[Ether]

unvote

I had actually typed up why I still supported a Kortslynch over a Charterlynch; then I saw the claim.

I feel like I have genuinely not been scummy. I've been doing really good lately. This is my first time dying before endgame in a long time.

Oh, and no one asked, but I'm sure you all are curious as to what awesome role I am. I am a

mason

. Alignment of partner not mod confirmed. Duhn Duhn duhhhh....

Now

I'm feeling uneasy.

[Ether]

Charter--you would expect your role to prevent your lynch because, non-threatening or not, it's confirmable. Because of that attitude right before your claim, I'm nervous that Korts is right and you're trying to come up with something convenient at the last minute. (Replace "mafia recruiter" with "cult leader," though; I didn't realize mafia recruiter was even a role. Doing research, I know Vollkan's willingly joined at least twogames that openly included cults, though to be fair that's not the same as him expressing support of hidden ones. Meh.)

Come to think of it, 570 feels like an extension to that, like there was an "oh shit what if I have to claim my partner" moment in between. "Unconfirmed mason" vs. "unconfirmed masonizer" is a stark difference.

vote: charter

.

I don't actually see what Camn is getting at in her 592--the claims don't clash.

Vollkan's rule 13 specifies that the deadline's not getting extended.

Ether's

sooooo

cool when she's town.

Buddying up. I'm onto you, Incognito.

[Ether]

Yeeeeeeeah, I don't know what OGML's smoking, either.

But WIFOM doesn't enter into it if you're cult. You're almost certainly on your own right now, and your goal is to last as long as possible or at least get to night and recruit someone. Outing a cop or doctor won't do you too much good. And I have mentioned you, and "[your] claim means [you're] scum" is a blatant strawman. I'd have nothing against the claim if you hadn't been all "aww I'm gonna get lynched ._." three minutes earlier.

A miller AND a recruiting mason among the 12 of us?

What did you mean by this?

[Ether]

I don't have much to say here. I'll

unvote; vote: Korts

. I don't think Charter should target the lynchee, but whoever it is, it should claim before we go to night.

Deadline's in slightly more than 36 hours.

camn (0/7):
charter (1/7): Korts
DizzyIzzyB13 (2/7): charter, Xdaamno
Ether (0/7):
Green Crayons (0/7):
Incognito (0/7):
Korts (4/7): DizzyIzzyB13, Incognito, Patrick, Ether
OhGodMyLife (0/7):
Patrick (0/7):
skitzer (0/7):
Xdaamno (1/7): Green Crayons
Yosarian2 (1/7): OhGodMyLife

Not voting (2/12):
skitzer, Camn

[Ether]

Mostly your Izzyvote and flip to Xdaamno when you picked up flak for it. I'm not wild about your refusal to read the posts you missed, but like the fact that you fell behind in the first place less. (I am aware that this is hypocritical.)

[...]

I don't like Charter's independent actions, but the fact that so many people have expressed suspicion of him gives me pause. And like he said, his Incoghate's hardly gonna get him anywhere. (Also, your expressed suspicion seemed particularly detached at the time, and I'd find you a likely partner anyway. This bit is somewhat less true now because you voted him.)

I failed to clarify this immediately because I'd switched to Charter.

I still think you're scum, but I agree that it's sub-optimal to lynch you now. (I would not support a counterclaim.)

unvote

I'm not as confident with lynching Izzy or Xdaamno, but I'll hop either for the deadline. I'll

unvote; vote: DizzyIzzyB13

now; WIFOMing myself over Xdaamno's play as scum in the marathon Chosen, mostly.

Hmm. Incognito, is Camn scum?

[Ether]

Yo, Korts. Did you ever read that stuff you fell behind on?

[Ether]

Can't complain. But I'm still not accepting any drinks from you after Day 1.

-~- Her voting pattern has been extremely flippant (she went from 1. me to 2. Izzy to 3. Yosarian2 to 4. Korts to 5. charter to 6. Korts again and then finally to 7. Izzy at deadline). Compare this to games where she's been town, and you'll notice the difference (she usually has a tendency to stick to her guns as town). Even her switch off Korts near deadline really bothered me as well -- I know from past games that Ether would almost certainly maintain a vote even in the face of a power role claim (she did so against a Glork jailkeeper claim in Mini 594).

Those last three switches were all based on claim stuff; the last two at the last minute. I couldn't exactly stay on Charter when his role turned out to be 100% confirmable, and no, I don't support offing a claimed martyr when there are obvious nighttime applications from it, even with a better grip than I have here. I learned my lesson on that. By 594, Glork had a guilty result on him--it's not comparable at all.

(Having said that, the deaths of two investigative roles makes a Kortslynch a lot more tempting to me. There's something else I'm thinking on this note, but I'm holding off.)

The last sentence of the fourth point is stupid because I'd voted before OGML softclaimed, and specifically hinted later that I wouldn't take other power roles into account. Admittedly, there's not much else that endears me to Yosarian's play.

I can't passionately defend myself against the middle two points--I never really took to this game. I don't know what causes that reaction, though I'm pretty sure thick familiarity is a negative, if anything.

Interestingly, my flake reflex seems to have been replaced by a put-off-posting-until-the-wee-hours-of-the-night reflex. During the summer, this change might actually be practical.

[Ether]

Yo, Korts. Did you ever read that stuff you fell behind on?

No.

Your 705 reads to me like you were aware of the softclaim. When did you catch it? (And yes, I do think you should have been more concerned with OGML than with Charter.)

Ether, I know what you're trying to do here. You're seriously trying to get me to reveal the secret behind the AIM logs that Patrick and I have on your typical play and that's

not

gonna happen.

I'm curious, but I'll live.

Farscape and Big Love (claims here and here, respectively) are the games that caused me to shift my attitude on claimed protective roles. Suspicious ones are good at getting themselves out of the way without my help. I really don't like his sneaking around OGML, though--see above--and am annoyed that he survived at all.

I needed Korts's answer first.

Pfft.

My blitz fell through when it came out that Skitzer was behind the slow start. This put me back on Square 1 without anything to show for it, and I didn't get back into the mood.

Followed shortly thereafter by, "I don't know what causes that reaction, though I'm pretty sure thick familiarity is a negative, if anything." Pretty funny. Thick familiarity is a negative when you're scum.

It's a negative anyway. My activity owned in 707

most of it

despite coming in having played with q21 once and Mizzy twice, and not knowing anyone very well. Patrick replaced in later, but even he lurked. Impatience and frustration fuel me to dominate a low-profile game--in contrast, I'm more likely to be stunted and even replaced when almost everyone's competent.

[Ether]

Don't rub it in. ¬_¬

This is a "god dammit Sophie I will force myself to care about this game somehow" post; I'm aware of prod rules and don't want to be replaced. I don't expect to sleep for a while, sadly.

[Ether]

I hated absolutely everything about this setup, and winning doesn't change my view.

(Don't understand the point of having the serial killer mess up watcher results in a way that doesn't actually frame a guilty. I guess it would confuse the watcher a bit. But that still doesn't actually prevent a watcher from getting a result on it that's as good as guilty; it just gives it a bit of space to argue if it's already managed to land a hit on some previous night. Big deal. Nightkill immunity might be cliché, but it's much more useful. Investigative immunity or a roleblock or two would fit in between. And not having a serial killer is an even better solution!)

It is pretty cool that no one got replaced. And I do think it's funny that a Patrick/Ether scumgroup just won in a semi-invitational.