Mini 762 - Secret-role Mafia, Status: Mod Gone, Plug Pulled

[Beyond_Birthday]

Vote Water

For your belief in tradition.

NOTE (to mod): "AWA" is the rough pronunciation of the Arubian word for water, so I am voting AWA

[Beyond_Birthday]

NabNab, don't you think its kind of unfair to choose whether or not you take someone's vote seriously? Isn't whether their vote is serious up to them, not you?

I was reacting to what looked like a fairly serious post. So for what it's worth (and not getting into any abstract issues of perception), it seemed that xen had already

chosen

to make his post serious. I chose to respond in a serious fashion (at least until I lapsed into third person).

Even without those sticky issues of perception; it should still be noted that while players have leeway in their seriosity (especially in low-wagon situations like this one), votes are essentially the only parts of our posts that draw on an authority deeper than merely how things are meant or how they are taken. Seven votes flanked by smileys will lynch somebody just as much as seven votes delivered in the diescumdie mode. So really, neither the poster nor the reader has the final say in the seriousness of a vote; that's up to the mod.

Mod: I am no longer voting myself. Xenaroth's count is listed at "0" despite having a vote

My bad. Good catch. Fixed. - the mod

I pray thou realizes that it takes 6 to lynch and not seven.

Further, people who have gone up in percents (appear scummy) - WHY
Elias_the_Thief: Her retaliation vote. However, a late post makes here overall percent (since my last post) go down. Thus, slightly more town from beginning. Attack on Lowell looks genuine but Lowell's defense was superior, and from my standing, more logical than the attack. Still, Elias ends up over all townie at this very early stage.

NABNAB: Seems slightly paranoid, heightened or worried maybe? Could be play style. Too early to tell and metagame check has been done to confirm. Post 34 also seems too cautious.

Xenaroth: Hm... his post seems odd, and I agree with Lowell that such an agressive, early attack on a lurker is odd. His random vote did already exist and he could have voted someone else. Very minor, but definitely noted. Post 20 harps on Skitzer. I don't like this.

Ash: Post 19 looks like scum trying to easily validate a later middle of the pack vote. Don't care for this.

Skitzer: Despite my distaste for Xen's harping, her opening post is very close to OMGUS in my book. Still, it is opening and as a result, it is an extremely minor +1% suspicion.


If you are not mentioned in the above (either in passing or as one of these people), you're percent went up. I may do this often so to clarify: Lowell is not a headline (eg, scummy person*). He is mentioned, however, in Elias' part. This is a good thing for Lowell. If your name isn't mentioned at all, you also have a raised percent (which is bad.)

*Thus far. I've read a Lowell game... he can be quite annoying.

[Beyond_Birthday]

EBWOP:
I

Unvote

. Though this does not necessarily apply to other people, I have left the random vote stage.
*Can I really do that?

[Beyond_Birthday]

Further, people who have gone up in percents (appear scummy) - WHY
Elias_the_Thief: Her retaliation vote. However, a late post makes here overall percent (since my last post) go down. Thus, slightly more town from beginning. Attack on Lowell looks genuine but Lowell's defense was superior, and from my standing, more logical than the attack. Still, Elias ends up over all townie at this very early stage.

Firstly, I am a dude. Please do not refer to me as "her" >.<
Second, which vote is the retaliation vote? Do you mean when I voted you for "trying to confuse the mod"? Because that was entirely a joke vote.

Personally I think its a tad bit early to be posting analysis like this, but whatever floats your boat. However, since you do have this small bit of early analysis posted, would you mind telling us who you find the most suspicious thus far? Am I correct in guessing that its Ash?

My apologies.
I know it was a joke vote. Perhaps this was too dry?

You are right it is early, never too early. Also, there is no "most" supicious at this point because they all went up exceptionally slightly. Perhaps Nab *IF* anyone at this point, but there is a reason that I am not voting.

Xen's post is slightly odd. (This is an acknowledgment.)

[Beyond_Birthday]

I have nothing to add, so posting this to bump thread.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Mod: Requesting mass prod

[Beyond_Birthday]

I prod people with nothing to add because no one was posting.

*looks down*
Oh, a bandwagon seems to be forming against me. Okay, don't care. *Acknowledges votes.*

Vote Xenorath

His post does nothing to redeem my previous suspicions. I would like town to ignore any OMGUS connection, but since that is impossible (and not pro town to ignore that my vote is potential omgus), I am just going to try to make a point of saying: His fos on me aside, I don't like his early play. He also seems to be using a fos to try and garner points for having a suspicion of me while its town popular to do so (Elias, Lowell?) without committing, as to avoid later vote analysis.

[Beyond_Birthday]

^ The above made me chuckle. Silly nabbit, time is for humans.

[Beyond_Birthday]

With this reaction, I'm tempted to see scum here. I'm not going to vote him because he's absent, not scummy. What further bothers me is the pop in votes of people who were also lurking, but do return to vote someone else for lurking. Looks hypocritical.

[Beyond_Birthday]

@Millar: Revenge Vote = OMGUS. Also, if I had to vote somebody on your wagon it wouldn't be the guy who started it. It would be one the two guys who wagoned mindlessly.

Also, AWA's post is looking pretty scummy to me. He goes through every player and has

nothing

positive to say about any of them. Looks like a fear of association combined with sowing some seeds. Seriously, why would my ability in "formal argument" be "tricky" for anybody but scum?

False, this would make me scummy because as town I assume all 11 people (/12) are scum, and thus, I must prove their innocence. I also refuse to hint at who I think is innocent unless I have an investigation report to give town (usually day 2 (3) or later.)


In the below post,

italics

are my commentary.

Sorry I haven't been posting; I had a school project that was killing me. I'll try and be more active.

blah, blah. Let us know ahead of time next time.

Here's my view on things so far:

I don't have a read on Beyond yet

No one ever does.

TCold is super-lurking

As are most

Ash hasn't posted much more

same

AWA is definitely scum, let's lynch him! (</sarcasm>, in case you missed it. Last game, people did...>.>)

I am the obvious serial killer.

Xenaroth responds to and attacks other players; overagressiveness is antitown (not necessarily scum!)

I dunno. I see paranoia, which =scum. However, this is minor so early; this is probably just a different in perception and a rating of suspicion on people for various acts.

skitzer hasn't posted much

Same as ash, tcold

I'm getting a bad vibe from Lowell...call it gut feeling

I do too. However, I would say at least 80% of Lowell's games give me this. I take it as town and have had to develop his own percentage rating scale due to his unique, rough play style.

millar comes off as a bit immature

Yes, but in people, I find that the guilty are more inclined to be thrown off guard and act immature. The innocent get frustrated, but his progression indicates the former more than innocence.

NabNab appears to be well-versed in formal arguments...not anti-town, but could be tricky in middle/endgame

Hm... I disagree, only in the sense that I cannot yet tell if the nabbit is a strong player in terms of forming arguments and, much more important, if these arguments would not lead to her demise. Nabbit may well walk into a logical fallacy or try to skew things if scum. If not, the presentation may be radically different. This is, of course theory, and by admitting I realize this, the scum-nabbit, if this be her alignment, will have to tread carefully to avoid prosecution. I think middle and endgame can be clear cut if town is calm and analytical of such arguments.

Elias is kind of shifty to me

I agree.

Simpor has only made one real post, and it was a wagon.

For an ironic reason. I am tempted to vote simpor out of the hypocricy, but I'm going to let it go.

Unvote

because we're out of RVS.

I feel like arbitrarily voting you now.

[Beyond_Birthday]

EBWOP (Facilitated the reading of my responses.)
In the below post,

blue

indicates my commentary.
[quote="AWA"]

I don't have a read on Beyond yet

No one ever does.

TCold is super-lurking

As are most

Ash hasn't posted much more

same

AWA is definitely scum, let's lynch him! (</sarcasm>, in case you missed it. Last game, people did...>.>)

I am the obvious serial killer.

Xenaroth responds to and attacks other players; overagressiveness is antitown (not necessarily scum!)

I dunno. I see paranoia, which =scum. However, this is minor so early; this is probably just a different in perception and a rating of suspicion on people for various acts.

skitzer hasn't posted much

Same as ash, tcold

I'm getting a bad vibe from Lowell...call it gut feeling

I do too. However, I would say at least 80% of Lowell's games give me this. I take it as town and have had to develop his own percentage rating scale due to his unique, rough play style.

millar comes off as a bit immature

Yes, but in people, I find that the guilty are more inclined to be thrown off guard and act immature. The innocent get frustrated, but his progression indicates the former more than innocence.

NabNab appears to be well-versed in formal arguments...not anti-town, but could be tricky in middle/endgame

Hm... I disagree, only in the sense that I cannot yet tell if the nabbit is a strong player in terms of forming arguments and, much more important, if these arguments would not lead to her demise. Nabbit may well walk into a logical fallacy or try to skew things if scum. If not, the presentation may be radically different. This is, of course theory, and by admitting I realize this, the scum-nabbit, if this be her alignment, will have to tread carefully to avoid prosecution. I think middle and endgame can be clear cut if town is calm and analytical of such arguments.

Elias is kind of shifty to me

I agree.

Simpor has only made one real post, and it was a wagon.

For an ironic reason. I am tempted to vote simpor out of the hypocricy, but I'm going to let it go.

[Beyond_Birthday]

False, this would make me scummy because as town I assume all 11 people (/12) are scum, and thus, I must prove their innocence. I also refuse to hint at who I think is innocent unless I have an investigation report to give town (usually day 2 (3) or later.)

This is a terribly unproductive assumption to make (and one that already seems broken by your friendly blue banter*). If townies are unwilling to trust players who make good arguments or defend players they feel are being railroaded, we cede entirely the advantage of organization/cohesion to the scum.

Millar is/was obviously frustrated (which, btw, is a sign of immaturity). This is not difficult.

I, like Elias and skitzer before me, am a dude. Try reading gender icons for once.

Why are you treating it like an anomoly that I "form arguments?" Any player who isn't lurking or a VI "forms arguments." That's what this game is. Why do you alledge that I would only make bad arguments if I were scum?

*BB, what is your read on AWA?

Sex is irrelevant to me. Elias, admittedly, was dumb of me. Should have known male, but this isn't really game relevant.

My read on AWA is "lack of posts" thus "undetermined."

I assume that your arguments will eventually show your scum/town. The characteristics of your argument will be inherent of your alignment is my working theory.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Sex is irrelevant to me. Elias, admittedly, was dumb of me. Should have known male, but this isn't really game relevant.

You're right, it's not really game relevant, but I would point out that if you were actually looking at my posts at the time you espoused on my argument forming abilities, my gender sign would have been right at hand.

False. You assume I look at the side panel. I see your name by cursory glance, and I do find that the sex symbol is a fairly minor portion of the overall post (of anyone. Event he infamous Zwet one liners.)

I assume that your arguments will eventually show your scum/town. The characteristics of your argument will be inherent of your alignment is my working theory.

Also, wrong (though potentially not bullshit). I endeavor to keep my arguments on the fair side of logic, but regardless of my allignment, that doesn't always happen; I am human. Either you are stating the obvious here (ie "I will learn about you from what you post") or you are holding me to an unrealistic standard, possibly with the intention of tearing me down from it at some point in the future.

And what's all this about my "potential to be dangerous?" I think this might have been the question that started it all, but: What's so dangerous about formal argument?[/quote]

1. Not wrong. I count on your humaness to betray your logic and thus reveal alignment.

2. Your formal argument may prevent you from being easily readable and thus, potentially dangerous.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Ah, skitzer can read the paradox. *Acknowledges Lowell's post.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I see I'm on L-2. not cool.

Lets see those who have voted against me:

skritzer

I'm not to sure if this is ment to be a real vote or not as it was her first post. i dont see a real arguement in her posts so I'm not going to respond to her vote. Also its basically an RVS early OMGUS sytled vote :-/

Beyond_Birthday

You've voted for me because you didn't like my early "attack" on skritzer. i cannot express explaination better than NabNab did here:

Seriously guys, look at what Lowell has done here. He drops a vote on Xenaroth shortly after Xenaroth gets himself in some hot water with a bad joke. He's shown some inexperience, and the mob is gumbling, so a good time to start a wagon, right?

Lowell calls him on focusing on Skitzer, but he doesn't think it through (really, in a game with no confirmation stage, it's entirely plausible that a player could be left accidentially in the dark). Yes, 20 was the second time in a row Xenaroth mentioned Skitzer, but it was made only 13 minutes after 18, essentially a double-post. Elias lodges a complaint, and Lowell responds first by professing ignorance, then by issuing vagaries, then with the post-facto justification I mentioned in 38.

My calling attention to Skritzer was

NOT

an attack I was trying to get people who hadn't posted/confirmed to come out of the shadows my "aggresive" actions all happened in the RVS.

Lowell

You've voted for me because I caused a bit of rukus early on and then went quiet and you think this is scummy. I would say that I'm a more attentive player than most. My reason for a low post content for the previous two pages of post is that I am at University and have tests and projects and am thus very busy. I am also from South Africa and our ISP is not the most reliabe service. I lose my net connection for long periods while Telkom does "scheduled routine service". i do try stay active as bset I can I've just had a few bad days for posting for the past few days.

AshKetchummm

Your vote for me makes me feel quite uneasy. You vote for me and give a rather weak reason for doing so whilest knowing that your vote puts me on L-2 as the Mod has just posted the V-count. You unvote Elias to stop being Lurky (ironically exactly what i did for skitzer which is part of your complaint) You also have only posted 5 times so you infact seem lurkerish to me.

If people want me to qualify my arguements any more I'll post after my test tomorrow (I should be able to post roughly 14 hrs from now).

I'll see what responces I get from this as I have my own suspisions as to who is scummy and will post with my replies as I think this is a large enough for one post.

Xen

Against Skrit: You make it sound like a RV OMGUS, which is fault since he didn't post at the time of your vote. This is a blatant lie. Also, you say your jut going to ignore the arguments because you can't make sense of them... seems evasive. Well, no... it doesn't seem that way, it is.

Against Me: I wouldn't have an issue with your defense if you were the one to write it or constructed your own defense.

Against Lowell: ...well...what he said is scummy of you is true. And you didn't bother to provide an explanation for it or really address/resume the earlier "rukus[sic]." Why would you stir something up and then not return to your point during your return, assuming that there was a real reason for your absence?

Against Ash: You call him lurkerish and then state that his reasoning is weak without explaining your view.

Also: Of course you have to support your arguments.

[Beyond_Birthday]

@BB: But that doesn't mean you can completely discount the argument contained therein. What obligates a player to find his own defense?

Because, if I attack a player, I want their defense and their reaction.

TCold has been prodded. If he is prodded again, he will be modkilled. Bum bum bum...

Oh...um...can we request replacement over mod kill?

You and two others can request one. - the mod

[Beyond_Birthday]

Yes, and your two one liner 0% content posts have been ever so helpful. I would expect this from Lowell though, so:

Vote Millar

[Beyond_Birthday]

My problem with Xen at the moment is he tend to attack lurkers over active players as of late.

Unvote

OMGUS has to be a reaction, thus your statement is a lie, but I am going to need more patience in order to play this game. This lot of people is giving me a head ache...

[Beyond_Birthday]

Your advocating the third...

Instead, Xen, make your case. If your efforts are genuine and root from a townie's mindset, that should be obvious from your case. Make your move, I'm tired of waiting.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Beyond_Birthday after looking back at Post 124 myself (thanks skitzer) the fact that you would expect something from Looker....makes me turn my head slightly. If you have previous on someone (and would normally vote agaisnt such a person) then this makes me think that you know something about Lowell that the rest of us don't

unvote Vote:Beyond_Birthday

I believe you may have just slipped up there.

Oh goody, not only can you not READ, you also decided to pick on the sole psychopath in this game.

revote Millar

Why? Well, let me see:
I don't expect...anything out of Looker. Ever. I want him mod killed, if that would happen...it'd be amazing and appreciated. But, it won't. He'll be annoying forever.

Out of Lowell? Well, yes, indeed. I would always expect seemingly half assed play from Lowell with the randomly inserted PBPA. So, you are essentially voting me for picking you out? Why? Empking is proof you can't change people's play styles, but you bantantly mimicked someone else's post (Lowells at the time) and this time Skitzer. I would urge skitzer to actually realize that Skitzer=wrong and that you are an idiot... I suppose calling you that is argumentum ad hominem, but I don't give a ----. HEY! DON'T EDIT MY SPEECH!

And slipped... huh, wait, what?

Also, Sigmund Freud was an idiot who thought if you dreamed of sleeping on little pillows that the small pillow represents a penis. Big pillows, therefore, represented vaginas. So...I really wouldn't take his word for gospel... what did I miss... OH YEAH!

A Freudian slip is given in the example:
"Hey, My friend wants to come over."
"My phone's ringing, hold on for one sex."
"Sex! HA! Freudian slip!"

It's a stupid concept. (This comes from the often mishit key of a "x" for a "c." I know, I do it often.)

I'm thinking Xen and Millar for a scum pair... possible third person/second team pending. (I am going to make the wild guess that this will be argued by both, but I could be wrong. *Shrugs*)

[Beyond_Birthday]

2. I never said it wasn't a logical fallacy. I will say, however, that argumentum ad hominem is fun.

Did you isolate Millar's post or not? The first 13 posts are absolute garbage.

He looks back at my post 124 due to Skitzer's criticism of its contents. He says that I slipped without stating what the slip is, and the votes me. This leaves me nothing to defend against and is, therefore, scummy. Hence, I vote Millar.

His post 15 is garbage.

Post 16 is back to me, but doesn't really address my post, just kind of generates more nothing.

Post 17: I'm accused of Omgus, which insinuates I had no reason to vote him. My answer is NO. I will not let him hide behind an OMGUS wall. His want to leave the game is scummy, and his play since then is scummy. I want Millar lynched.

Yes, and your

two one liner 0% content posts

have been ever so helpful. I would expect this from Lowell though, so:

Vote Millar

As a side note:
The part is italics is a hyperbole. However, I think it is far worse to havew 13 unhelpful posts versus 2 of them. And again: Lowell, I know, always does stupid little: "No activity" nonsense posts and then does (a surprisingly amiable/accurate) post by post analysis. Millar, who I do not know, has made no effort in this game and just rides on other people's post. Skitzer, in my opinion, is mistaken or doesn't understand the concept of an overstatement. Whatever the case, Millar is the most scummy at this point. (49%)

[Beyond_Birthday]

49%? Please don't tell me you have applied maths...in a feeable attempt to seem more intelligent and therefore not come off so scummy. Unhelpness this unhelpness that wah wah wah

I always use percents. In fact, I think I was once accused of being an alternate of some seasoned member who uses a similar (the same?) method.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Was that meant to knock me off my

pedastool

pedestal with respect with your

skills

Analysis

The only person I knew who used % was a guy who whenever i ended up playing him turned out to be scum every time. You see you don't have to actually be correct to apply it. Its ludicrous

Actually, my post is an example of my boredom in a dying game (and a minor defense of the way I analyze games). I've made a case against you, you're probably scum, and I want you lynched. In order to do that, the town needs to return and say, "Oh, look...shit happened. I probably need to actually play a game I asked to join."

Wall-E, please send out a mass prod, if it isn't too much trouble

Request noted. - the mod

[Beyond_Birthday]

Probably scum.

That the difference....i

know

ur scum

Only mafia "knows" things.

2 people said stuff... Lowell's was useless (FIND TIME) and Ash...well...his is relevant.

Still waiting on people to play.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Simpor, why don't you comment on the Millar..someone else attack against me? I think assisting in conversation would stir things up better than asking a non committing question.

[Beyond_Birthday]

At least Charter is trying.

I agree with the Ash accusation upon a minor reread.

Also, I think Millar is scum buddy with Ash based on Ash's vote, unvote AND Millar's play.

Unvote; Vote Ash

[Beyond_Birthday]

Beyond_Birthday you change votes quicker than I have seen for a long time.

Scum or just indecisive townie?

Tunneling? Even Skitzer dropped his (poor) case against me because it had merit. Now, you act not only as though you lack a case but you fail to advance or support conversation by commenting on your opinion of Ash.

Fos.

[Beyond_Birthday]

@NabNab

Quick runthrough:

xena

looks worse as time goes on. At first he spent a lot of time worrying about who was and who wasn't posting enough for his liking. That struck me as scummy, but would be fine if that's the kind of player he is (ie. overattentive). Since the game has settled down he doesn't seem to have anything else to say. It makes me think he was using metagame posts at the beginning because he didn't want to risk saying anything incriminating.

This is the post where I got my suspision of xena, since Lowell brought up basically what I was thinking.

But I agree his voting may not of been as erratic as I said it was, but still I have to agree with the majority of what Lowell said.

If you're going to quote Lowell's post like that, you might want to take a look at the post where I tear into his position on Xenaroth. Also, this whole affair seems seriously delayed; why vote on Page 5 based on a secondary source from Page 2?

This just hammers home the points charter has made about Ash's scuminess. I would prefer to stay on Lowell, but let's see where this wagon goes.

Unvote; Vote: AshKetchummm

@Your "Delayed" argument: So, time makes a statement less scummy as time goes on in this case? Wow, Time really does heal all wounds.

Your vote is wagon hopping. If you don't think Ash is scum, why vote him?
@Charter: Where exactly is your opinion on me coming from?

[Beyond_Birthday]

@NabNab

Quick runthrough:

xena

looks worse as time goes on. At first he spent a lot of time worrying about who was and who wasn't posting enough for his liking. That struck me as scummy, but would be fine if that's the kind of player he is (ie. overattentive). Since the game has settled down he doesn't seem to have anything else to say. It makes me think he was using metagame posts at the beginning because he didn't want to risk saying anything incriminating.

This is the post where I got my suspision of xena, since Lowell brought up basically what I was thinking.

But I agree his voting may not of been as erratic as I said it was, but still I have to agree with the majority of what Lowell said.

If you're going to quote Lowell's post like that, you might want to take a look at the post where I tear into his position on Xenaroth. Also, this whole affair seems seriously delayed; why vote on Page 5 based on a secondary source from Page 2?

This just hammers home the points charter has made about Ash's scuminess. I would prefer to stay on Lowell, but let's see where this wagon goes.

Unvote; Vote: AshKetchummm

@Charter: Where exactly is your opinion on me coming from?

@Your "Delayed" argument: So, time makes a statement less scummy as time goes on in this case? Wow, Time really does heal all wounds.

Your vote is scummy. If you do not think Ash is scummy, why vote him? His wagons grown enough in the past few posts. (in the past page?)

[Beyond_Birthday]

The case against Ash is surely strong, but it bothers me a lot that I am the first to mention a lot of these points against him, while the majority of people on this wagon have said things along the lines of "changes his vote a lot, seems shifty". Seeing as he's already at -2, I will hold off on my vote until Ash responds.

True, but I figured it was better to let Ash answer current suspicions before bringing in more points. Why? Because I was too lazy to itemize it like that for a player who isn't even here.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Mod, perhaps a prod of Ash is in order

AshKetchummm posted three days ago. If he has not posted in four more, I'll prod him. If a deadline is requested, it will be set for the 20th of April at 12 noon GMT. - the mod

[Beyond_Birthday]

@BB: Where did I say that Ash's vote being delayed made him less scummy? It was rolled in with my criticism of his defense, tied to it with an "also," and followed by my stating that it "hammered home" his scuminess. It was very obvious that I was saying that it

did

make him scummy. (Though I typically don't have a problem with people digging up old content on re-reads or what-have-you, when a player joins a current wagon with a line of thinking that's already been put to rest, it smacks of reaching. This is especially so when players involve old arguments but not old counter-arguments as Ash did)

You have made an enourmous effort in misinterperting my post to make me look like a hypocrite. Why?

I have moved my vote from Lowell to Ash because it is obvious that nobody has or will pay any damn attention to what I see as Lowell's scuminess, but that doesn't mean I don't find Ash scummy and deserving of a lynch.

Maybe because counter arguments are invalid? Also, I misinterpreted the whole situation, which is player error. Also, misinterpreting you means you have an issue relaying information is a collected, logical form that is easily understood. Clarify, Nab, clarify.

Side note: Don't get defensive yet. I haven't seriously attacked you at all.

Ok... I'm not going to argue this with you anymore. If someone else sees things your way then I'll talk to them.

I had the same issue with Charter right around the time you replaced in. I would say the odds he is scum is up in the 30s right now. Maintaining vote on Ash is almost a formality aside from his scummy statements.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I really don't want to wait until Ash gets prodded...millar is um...interesting in his argumentation. Can't say its scummy though, so long as he legitimately believes in his scumtells. I dont like the "dont get defensive yet" from beyond birthday. preempting and discouraging discussion = scummy. why would you not want to discuss the points you have against nabnab?

I don't have points against Nabnab. Hence, don't get defensive yet.

Charter: Mistype. Millar is up, and that thing should be "problem with Millar." He is my first legitimate head ache from stupidity. And I've read games with Empking in it.

[Beyond_Birthday]

If Ash doesnt come back, theres no point in finding a replacement really. We can't give the replacement a clean slate, but they can't explain Ash's previous actions. So really all that does is stall the hell out of the game. I really hate the level of flaking in games nowadays =/

Agreed. Maybe we should just lynch Ash and save the mod the trouble? On the other hand, I could just as easily support lynching Millar and giving night as time for a replacement to catch up. *hmm... decisions, decisions...*

[Beyond_Birthday]

Hm... well I'd say that yesterday is a failure. Nab, one of my suspects is dead though, which should clear things up today. The lynch of Ash seemed almost unavoidable, but that's okay. We should be clearer in approaching today.

Recanting yesterday:

Vote AWA

I can't remember much about you, thus you lurk, thus you're scum.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Sounds slightly like scum novice (millar) who got instructed on how to act.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Recanting yesterday:

Vote AWA

I can't remember much about you, thus you lurk, thus you're scum.

This is bad reasoning, lurkers do not absolutely equal scum.

Your reasonings so far seem to be quickly generalized and not well thought through.

If I said arbitrary voting AWA, it wouldn't have gotten any response, even the bad response I received. Truly, Skitzer, you annoy me with your lack of depth. That, or you are admitting that you think I am so one dimensional as to vote for stupid generalizations such as "Lynch All Liars" (A completely flawed theory), Policy lynches (another flawed theory), and lurker lynching (Another flawed theory)?

Now that AWA has responded, lets go back to the much more interesting case against Millar:

For reference, I will be paraphrasing from about page 6 on:
BB: Mil, your one liner post annoy me. Unvote, Vote Mil. (I at least expect this play from Low.)

Xen: Blah blah, irrelevant.

BB: I'm tired of waiting, Xen, make your case.

Mil: You're tired of waiting, but you unvoted? Slip!

Skit: Hm... you vote Mil over Low? I would expect this more from Mil than Low. (Accusing me)Favoritism?

Mil: Thanks Skit! You expect something from look (Low?). If you know someone's style and don't vote him, then you know something we don't. Vote BB.

His wording was really awkward, but I think that he fails to understand that if you know someone plays a certain way, you can't vote them for playing that way. You need to find another reason. Therefore, his reason for his vote is unsupported and crappy. I mention Skit's post since it is relevant and might be coaching.

Mil (to nab): Annoying irrelevant post after Nab makes strong, anti Xen post. If Xen is scum, Mil is scum. The opposite is also likely true.

In other words, this might be a pathetic attempt at distraction/deflection

BB: I don't expect anything out of looker (didn't realize his post error at the time), and out of lowell? Yeah. Why would I vote him then. Also, what slip? Side note: Freud was an idiot [insert rant]. I pose Mil+Xen scum pair.

Mil: I don't mean Freud, I meant mistake. Forget all that BS, just admit your disguising Omgus. You're so predictable.

Skit: Your post is against me, and my logic makes "absolute sense." While Skit=wrong can happen, I just think you have a mindset of BB=right. (Well, your logic is refutable, stupid, shoddy, second rate, etc, etc, but that aside, Nab saw your post and apparently didn't find it worth mentioning, so...)

Mil: BB, did you vote me because you disagree with my reason or because I voted you? Actually, don't answer that.

If I had a gun, Mil, you'd be dead right now.

Nab: BB, you're presuming your the sole psychopath. (Joking, I like nab in this post.)
Being "censored" doesn't prevent Ad Hom from being a fallacy.
Your description of 0% content, 1 liner post by Mil is obviously wrong.

BB: I never said Ad Hom wasn't a fallacy. I would, however, advocate they are fun.
(I then go on to list all of Mil's post up to that point, summarizing them and proving them to be garbage. For reference, this is post number 142.)

Mil: "49%" You're now trying to validate your case with "maths." Unhelpfulness is unhelpfulness.

Can't resist...urge...must...stab...him...

BB: I always use percents. Other players do too.

Mil: A guy I played who used percents was always scum.

Gambler's fallacy, never attempted to adress points against him, plays like an idiot, is obviously being an intentional distraction as these post are almost back to back.

BB: *Shrugs* My posts are a result of boredom in a dead game. You're probably scum though.
*Requests mass prod*

Mil: Probably scum? I KNOW you're scum.

BB: Only mafia "knows" things.

Cha: *joins.*

Mil: "Only mafia "know" stuff

but I know that you are scum....its is just so evident it isn't true. Its a shame no one is likely to see how it just radiates off you"
Sim: Does nothing useful, requests deadline.

BB: Sim, you could comment on Mil. (Is almost nearing point of treating Mil like Empking and Zwet.)

Mil: BB, stop acting like the victim.

I'm preparing a knife for you!

Cha: FoS Nab and BB for early day play.
Votes ASH

BB: Cha is trying at least. *At this point, decides to treat Mil like Emp* UNVOTES, VOTES ASH. The point Cha makes is decent.
Cha: Thinks Ash is obv. scum.

Mil: BB changes his vote a lot. Indecisive townie or scum.

...*STABS, STABS, STABS, STABS* FUCK IT! I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE! *CUTS WRIST* BLEED, BB, BLEED! GET ME OUT OF HERE! *Slams knife into own eye* *Dies*

Skit: Easily votes Ash, thinks BB and now Simp are "viable cases."

Cha: Now FoS Mil.

BB: Accuses Mil of tunneling.

Mil: You unvoted me, so FoS (at BB) is a given.

Cha: You refused to give opinion on Ash. You are now scummier.

Nab: Follows us, adds to case, votes Ash.

Mil: I have no oppinion. <--Scum playing it safe, he then proceeds to get uber defensive in arguing with Cha liked he did when I voted him. Seems like antzy scum with Skit trying to mildly cast doubt on me, who attacked him, and coach him.

Cha: Drops it.

BB: Has a misconception of Nab's post.

Cha: Agrees with my misconception. We are both later set straight.

Mil: What should I do? (Seeking town favor if, as my theory suggests, Cha is town?)
Things go on to a point where it is a series of posts so stupid that my brain cannot take the strain to read them again. (Except the next Nab post which I just alluded to.)

Now, take his hyper, scatter brained approach yesterday, and all of a sudden, he feels a need to back track on his view of me? And then Skit seems happily to mildly prod (I answered above), as though to indicate to Mil that he should have attacked that like he did yesterday. My theory is that he was told by his scum team (possibly skit) to chill a bit and took it too extreme, as Skit's next post points out. Therefore:

Unvote; Vote millar

[Beyond_Birthday]

Waste of my time. It is literally page 6 till mid page 8 with very little content. I would recommend the town aligned members to go check information. I always would.

Also Millar, where did I "twist" anything? Tell me where and I'll check those post, and admit I'm wrong, or quote those posts and prove I'm right. Only scum should be afraid to put something in writing (since with having it in print, I can prove you wrong.)

*Above is initial reaction*
I'm feeling lazy right now, but after rereading my post (has no issue with it) I still urge you to reread the section, but I'll quote specific ones and make a case tomorrow. I'm just feeling tired and lazy right now.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Beyond_Birthday after looking back at Post 124 myself (thanks skitzer) the fact that you would expect something from Looker....makes me turn my head slightly. If you have previous on someone (and would normally vote agaisnt such a person) then this makes me think that you know something about Lowell that the rest of us don't

unvote Vote:Beyond_Birthday

I believe you may have just slipped up there.

His wording was really awkward, but I think that he fails to understand that if you know someone plays a certain way, you can't vote them for playing that way. You need to find another reason. Therefore, his reason for his vote is unsupported and crappy. I mention Skit's post since it is relevant and might be coaching.

NabakovNabakov after reading Post 134 I just have a question.

When asked, if you had a good nights sleep do you say:-

1) Yeah it was good....leave me alone I want some sleep

2) zzzzzzzzzzzzz f*5k o*F

3) You read this book....read extract blah blah blah blah (ten hours later)
What was the question again?

In other words, this might be a pathetic attempt at distraction/deflection

Beyond_Birthday: did you only vote for me becoz you didn't like my reason or simply becoz I voted for you. Actually don't answer that.

False dilemma? Why did you post this?

Was that meant to knock me off my pedastool with respect with your skills

The only person I knew who used % was a guy who whenever i ended up playing him turned out to be scum every time. You see you don't have to actually be correct to apply it. Its ludicrous

Gambler's fallacy, never attempted to adress points against him, plays like an idiot, is obviously being an intentional distraction as these post are almost back to back.

I re-read a number of Ash's posts and still nothing have really hit me hard enough to think "He is scum" am I really missing something or have I fallen out of context?

Scum playing it safe, he then proceeds to get uber defensive in arguing with Cha liked he did when I voted him. Seems like antzy scum with Skit trying to mildly cast doubt on me. Skit also attacked me and seems to coach him in a few posts.

No, you have majorly raised in scumminess by entirely ignoring giving your opinion on Ash.

To be honest I don't really have one...he doesn't seem scummy but he doesn't seem town either. What can I say?

Sounds like scum asking for advice. Why would town ask what to do?

[Beyond_Birthday]

If I don't post much, it's because there's nothing to post on; almost all of the "content" in the game has been arguing back and forth about non-game related things. The people who have posted, BB and millar, are mainly going back and forth on each other without any real substantial evidence besides that which they have taken out of context to utilize against each other. Elias has done an ok job of contributing, and I'm pretty sure Lowell hasn't made one game-related post yet. I'm sorry for not contributing more, but I can't contribute with nothing to work with.

You never attempt to prove to my quotes are out of context.

unvote;vote awa

I approve of this bandwagon.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Good.
Lowell, unlike other games, you have yet to do a giant PBPA, which is the one redeeming quality of your usually town play.

Unvote. Vote: Lowell

Side note: AWA is an idiot, and Millar is a bigger idiot.

[Beyond_Birthday]

@BB- summary post IS coming when I find the time. For now I'll say I don't much like the quickness with which you jumped to me at AWAs suggestion.

I didn't realize, until AWA reiterated suspicion of you that you hadn't done a summary post. And it seems long overdue.

[Beyond_Birthday]

...Skitzer, claiming "not cop" only helps the mafia figure out who the cop is if it isn't the one who claimed.

[Beyond_Birthday]

You know lowell... *snaps fingers*

There's something about you this game that bothers me...

I'm not sure what it is, but your play is off. Despite your points against Xena... you...strike me funny...

Anyway, we're still not at a point that I can really conclude anything, and I don't see too much to worry about (yet, I know), but I'm going to put this game on the back burner due to its low activity and the fact my other games are at more crucial points. This is a check in and Lowell is voting me acknowledgment.

[Beyond_Birthday]

...Skitzer, claiming "not cop" only helps the mafia figure out who the cop is if it isn't the one who claimed.

Unvote, Vote Beyond_Birthday

Blatent attempt at slinging suspicion at Skitzer. GUESS WHAT, EITHER THE PERSON WHO CLAIMED COP IS COP OR THEY ARE SCUM. We were trying to see if someone counterclaimed. Scum already know if AWA is cop or not, now town is learning too.

This easily went through a townie's mind, guess it could have slipped scum's mind.

I believe everyone posted after AWA and no one countered, so I believe him.

Flawed.

[Beyond_Birthday]

No. When AWA claimed, if he isn't scum, then guess what, scum know who the cop is. If AWA is not the cop, he is scum, and therefore someone countering is a good thing.

The only reason why BB could possibly have noted skitzer claiming NOT COP (which a bunch others did but got no mention from BB) is if he was looking for somewhere to place blame.

There is basically no way that BB, as town, would have told off skitzer for saying he wasn't cop, after the cop had claimed, and other people were saying they were not cop. It only makes sense if BB is scum.

Wrong? Cop=/=scum. 2scum is worth losing the cop over. a Faulty cop (insane somehow) is worth losing a scum. If cop dies, unless at lylo, we'll lynch AWA anyway. However, helping scum make that happen sooner, if AWA is lying, is a BAD IDEA. Again, flawed.

Scum: Skitzer is scum with either Charter or Millar. Possibly both. Just a hunch really, and I guess its due to Skitzer minorly coaching Millar and Charter's irrational defense of Skitzer's "not cop" and coaching.

...If the game remains this slow, I'm going to request replacement because ...slow games are not fun for me...

Just a warning.

[Beyond_Birthday]

...

This is getting boring quickly...so...slow...and here it speeds up the stupidty, but any real play is just dead.

Mod: I'm going to request replacement.

Farewell. - the mod

Sorry, but this game is just so....aggrivating. Awa pops in to stop the AWA lynch with a claim and millar is driving me up a wall. Lowell pops in with primarily useless information and Xena appears to have abandoned...

Sorry, I've lost all interest in this game.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Figured. The lack of player interest and the loss of Mod... btw, I was town townie.