Mini 708 - Cheat Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Master Ruck]

For now, just here to say hi.

I've read through everything so far, though I'm likely to do a better re-read later. British time zone means I'm gonna go sleep soon so I'll give my opinions tomorrow.

[Master Ruck]

SirD, your post dissapeared as you made it between the site down times and everything made in that gap is deleted. I had a PM in my box at that time and that's gone now as well.

Anyhow, I've gone through D1 in detail (I'll do D2 later. Going out soon) and to your dismay, sird, I don't find anything particularly scummy about nat. I know she's a good player and I'm not ruling out that her play is a very good scum ruse, but I'm more inclined to believe she's town and that she's a miller.

You, on the other hand, while not being obviously scummy, have tended to push some matters above and beyond the call of duty when it wasn't called for. It's not enough for a vote, but here's looking at you.

I'll make another post when I've gone through D2.

[Master Ruck]

And by she I meant he for natirasha. Don't know why I thought he was a gal.

[Master Ruck]

You, on the other hand, while not being obviously scummy, have tended to push some matters above and beyond the call of duty when it wasn't called for. It's not enough for a vote, but here's looking at you.

Not sure what you mean here. Also what are you thoughts of claiming miller day 1. Do you think it is a good strategy?

What I mean by this is that I find, to some extent, your arguments against ani to be reasoned, but you push too far and argue beyond what is needed. You make your point very clearly that you don't allow newbies to make that kind of mistake, but you push it so far it gets old and strange as to why you would push it so much.

As for claiming miller D1, I endorse it. I've been playing mafia on another board where I was scum and scanned so I had to claim miller. I argued too much and it got me lynched, but one of the townies had a big go at me before my death asking why I didn't role claim D1 and save all of this trouble. If Nat is truly the miller, which I believe, then waiting for any kind of cop scan on him before claiming will bring suspicion to everyone instantly by saying that the claim seems too convenient. Sure Nat may have said something that makes him suspicious, but so does everyone at one point so I believe his claim and that he's town.

Besides, at the point we're at it's too dangerous to risk lynching him as, if he is a miller, then we've lost one more town and we're that bit closer to losing. Right now we're better off looking for more scum.

[Master Ruck]

And now I'm all caught up on D2. Annoyingly, Jahudo said a couple of points I had noticed as well so I don't really have anything else to add on sird, but armlx stood out at one point for me near the end of ani's lynching. Specifically the fact that he would have been the hammer had electra not unvoted 4 minutes before. At this point, some users were waiting for ani to answer claim yet he had not done so at this point. had electra not unvoted, ani would have been lynched and we'd be left in the dark and never know those answers.

Now we have the replacement, Jahudo, saying that both of those answers are a lie. There may be a matter of miscommunication as the mod is fallible, but to me it seems like he's trying to make two correct answers look wrong and prevent town from getting powers.

For now,

Vote: Jahuda

as he is the scummiest in my eyes.

[Master Ruck]

Annoyingly, Jahudo said a couple of points I had noticed as well so I don't really have anything else to add on sird

You can still say your points if you agree anywhere or have a slightly different take. But for clarification, you're agreeing with me about sirdanilot?

I agree that sird might be scum, but the points I agreed with were your view of sird in post 98 and all of your post 319 points. Though you could be more specific when asking Nat and Malt the exact same vague question.

armlx stood out at one point for me near the end of ani's lynching. Specifically the fact that he would have been the hammer had electra not unvoted 4 minutes before. At this point, some users were waiting for ani to answer claim yet he had not done so at this point. had electra not unvoted, ani would have been lynched and we'd be left in the dark and never know those answers.

Armix was already night killed and flipped town so I don't know what conclusions you're drawing here.[/quote]
This here will simply emit a 'dammit' from me. I must have skimmed over that bit and not seen the admittedly small mod post saying that armlx had died. I just assumed he was still alive but lurking so I posted my thoughts on him.

[Master Ruck]

sirdanilot wrote:
Guess what jahudo, you can't know if your answers where right or wrong. Before you call me a pot calling the kettle black (or how did it go), yes I said that 1B is right, but that's just what I think it is. Sorry for that.
Yeah I was reading things wrong in my role pm.

I'm really, really annoyed about people not reading things correctly right now. If there's anything else you haven't read properly, please say it now.

Agreed, and this should go to everybody. It's an incredibly poor excuse that scum can use to get out of some small things, so we all should check to make sure we understand anything we're not sure on.

[Master Ruck]

Sadly, this dilemma only seems possible by asking nat's replacement when/if (s)he arrives. Until then, it seems more proactive to go back to scum hunting which I'm doing now by giving this a re-read.

[Master Ruck]

Will finish sometime tomorrow. Sleep now then big post when I can.

[Master Ruck]

I promised a big post some time ago, but combined with the other games I'm in and job-hunting taking up most of my time, getting a big post would take far too long especially with the deadline being just over a week. I'm sticking with my Jahudo vote as he's done nothing as far as I can see to make me think I was wrong, and while I have other suspicions, they are not certain in my mind so I'm holding off on them for now until there is a better case.

I'd also like to hear more from GW as he seems to have lurked for most of this game with his posts coming few and far between. To get the ball rolling a bit, I'll ask this to everyone. How much of a coincidence do people think that those Nat traded with are dying?

[Master Ruck]

Also, Nat seems to have a meta of lying from what I've seen. Not that it's good to base anything on meta nor that I'm suggesting we should, I'm just saying this for the sake of saying it.

[Master Ruck]

As far as I know, Dat did no such thing.

[Master Ruck]

Mod: Can we get prods on Ghost Writer and UROE please.

[Master Ruck]

Sorry. I had it in my head that today was the 24th so I thought you had been gone for 4 days. GW still needs a prod though. We also need to stop faffing about with matters that bring the game to a complete halt if one person doesn't say anything. We have 9 days until deadline, so we need to start scum hunting again. My vote is staying on Jahudo for now, but I'll do a brief reread soon and see if anything changes.

[Master Ruck]

Well, I said I'd do a brief reread and for now it's just included an isolation read of Jahudo and Electra before him. My vote on you was because I saw you going on about confirmed and wrong answers and the way you persisted in it for a while made me think scum, though now I'm not so sure. However, Electra has done you no favours. His very first post was him suggesting Death Millers which I believe has been said that it's never a good thing to discuss or imply or something. Also, his last posts were during the "Vote Ani" stage and while he fairly unvoted to give ani a chance to talk and discuss the possible issue of the number of answers he had, El later votes Ani with that being the whole content of his post.

I'm feeling a bit iffy on Nat/UROE so I'm gonna do a read on them next, but on the whole you are still looking scummy to me.

[Master Ruck]

Oh, and Happy Birthday iLord!

[Master Ruck]

You're gonna have to explain that as I don't know how someone can be

mutually

bussed. Regardless, those were my thoughts after looking at Jahudo/Electra and I'll post my thoughts on Nat/UROE soon as well. Not right now, though, as another game I'm in is almost at deadline.

[Master Ruck]

Vote: DrippingGoofBall

I got a cop scan last night and he showed up as a bad kid. Lynch the Scum!

[Master Ruck]

Gained through answers. It was a one-shot so I don't have it anymore, but I scanned DGB and he turned up as a bad kid. Bold red lettering, so I'm gonna count that as scum.

[Master Ruck]

Master Ruck

I'll post my thoughts on Nat/UROE soon as well. Not right now, though, as another game I'm in is almost at deadline.

Why didn’t you follow through with this?

Couple of reasons. First, I was suspicious of what he said to me during an answer trade and how he said it, and that's not the easiest thing to claim as evidence as nobody can see it and I could easily be lying. Plus it was still only a hunch at the time. Also, I had that lazy "I'll do it tomorrow" attitude which is poor, but also the truth.

If Nat is truly the miller, which I believe, then waiting for any kind of cop scan on him before claiming will bring suspicion to everyone instantly by saying that the claim seems too convenient.

Sure Nat may have said something that makes him suspicious, but so does everyone at one point so I believe his claim and that he's town.

Why did you feel the need to add the sentence I bolded here? Sirdan only asked you if you though claiming miller day 1 was a good strategy. Why did you preemptively give Nat the benefit of the doubt and think he was town?

I added the sentence because I was thinking it at the time and I feel my thoughts should be posted regardless of how odd or stupid they may be. As for why I thought it, well, I believe I said somewhere that I was in another game on another site where I was shouted at for not claiming miller D1 and helping the town (even though it was a fakeclaim) so I guess it was in my mind that if someone claimed miller D1 right at the beginning, then they probably are a miller.

I'm feeling a bit iffy on Nat/UROE so I'm gonna do a read on them next

What did you mean by iffy? Why didn’t you expand on this any?

Alright, replace iffy with gut feeling or vibes. He was under a bit of scrutiny at the time and my belief in his claim was starting to waver. My suspicions from the trade I mentioned earlier added to this as well so it seemed appropriate to do a reread of him and see if I could fins something conclusive to back up my thoughts.

[Master Ruck]

The 1 shot scan was in the form of a lie detecting ring. By scanning DGB, the ring turned red and was clear that DGB is a bad kid.

[Master Ruck]

@Master Ruck: Why did you target DGB? Particularly why did you target someone who was on UROE's lynch wagon?

I just spent a long time looking at the list of surviving characters and worked my way through them based somewhat on vibes. I had only traded with about 3 users to get all the answers I did, and considering I got something useful from it, I eliminated those I traded with from scanning. If I traded with scum, I doubt they would have given me the right answers.

With who I had left, DGB was giving me the most queries. I didn't feel too sure about him and my suspicions on him could have gone either way. In the end, I decided to go with him and either find scum or have all my doubts erased. I guess I got lucky and found scum. As for him pushing a UROE lynch, guess he was just bussing a scum mate. Nat was looking like the lynch then anyway, so helping the lynch along seems like a scum-trying-to-look-town thing to do.

[Master Ruck]

Maybe vig in this case is something like my cop scan in that it's earned through answers and it's a one-shot.

[Master Ruck]

I know it's fair to admit that both me and DGB may be telling the truth with our power claims (seeing as both involve an item of sorts), and I know this will be lessened somewhat as I'm one of the two roles in question, but doesn't it seem that DGB's breaking into a locker is just another form of a cop scan? I find it strange that the same role comes in two very different forms, especially when his power feels like he made it up based on all the flavour we have been given when determining the roles of others at death. He's playing it safe because he doesn't have the actual power (my ring) so busting into a locker was probably the only thing he could think of to be a cop scan.

[Master Ruck]

EBWOP: when determining the

alignment

of others at death.

[Master Ruck]

So rather than answer his question, you instead play one big game of outguess-the-mod.

[Master Ruck]

One other point I would like to add. If I did have an insane cop scan like DGB would like to make us believe, then that would mean he is, in fact, town. He's been at L-1 for a while now and unless something stops the scum kill tonight, a mislynch ends the game. Where, then, is the opportunistic scum hammer to make all this happen?

[Master Ruck]

If DGB is town and sane, then Axel is town.

I assume you meant to say Axel is scum in this line, right?

[Master Ruck]

I would like to hear from GhostWriter on this. He still currently has a vote on DGB yet he hasn't said anything in a while. I'm interested to hear his thoughts on the sane/insane issues.

[Master Ruck]

Ok, my bad, he did say something recently. I just missed it. Basically, though, the current thoughts you are putting forth, Jahudo, are that either I am town with a sane cop scan and DGB is actually scum, or DGB is town with a sane thief role and both Axel and I are scum. Fair enough. Both are possible, I suppose, from the eyes of another townie. Allow me, then, to lay all my cards on the table.

I am the Cheerleader. I know for a fact that the answers to question 7 and 8 are both B. By the time I replaced in to the game, they were still the only answers I had as Dattebayo had only attempted (and failed) to cheat N1 and didn't bother N2. He made no effort to trade answers with anyone either from what I and iLord could get. I made a number of trades during D3 by trading my 2 known answers with Malthusis and GhostWriter, and using the two answers ani gave before he died, I had 8. From there, I did a mass trade with Axel and UROE. UROE did nothing except give me about 2 or 3 answers and simply confirm that the others I had matched his. The simplicity of his reply gave me my initial suspicions towards him. Axel, however, gave me 8 answers I did not have and also confirmed the ones I gave him that he knew of.

Last night, I got and used my cop scan, but that was not the only power I received. I also got a one-shot jailer ability. Through this I have strong reason to believe Axel is town as he gave me the answers necessary to get 2 power roles and I doubt scum would be so willing to give correct answers away, as the trade with UROE leads us to believe.

Now, I think I have potentially given the town their victory. My cop scan showed me DGB is scum. With 6 alive, it means there is at most 2 scum as 3 living scum right now would win them the game. Seeing as how we have no game over, I believe there's 2 scum left. DGB is scum, so we lynch him and there's one left. With my jailer power, all I have to do is use it on the last remaining scum and their kill is blocked giving us a very strong idea of who the last scum is. There is room for error here as it could also be that I protect town and scum happens to try to kill who I protected, but this is a small chance so I'm inclined to ignore it.

I originally kept all this quiet telling this only to Axel (I trusted him as his answers gave me roles) but I realised that even if everyone knows this I still might survive the night if I jail the right person. Both Axel and Ghost should still have records of me trading with them in their PM boxes and should be able to confirm at least that much. I'm also going to proceed with showing the answers I have to

all

the questions. Question 3 is nothing more than an educated guess, but all the other answers came through trade and if they got me 2 powers, I'm inclined to believe most of them are right.

1=B (UROE)
2=B (Axelrod)
3=D
4=C (GhostWriter)
5=C (Malthusis)
6=D (UROE)
7=B (Me)
8=B (Me)
9=D (Axelrod)
10=C (Malthusis)
11=C (GhostWriter)
12=B (Axelrod)
13=C (Axelrod)
14=B (Axelrod)
15=C (Axelrod)

The names in brackets are who I originally got the answer from by trade so you can confirm or deny them further based on any trades or cheats anyone else may have done. Make of this what you will, but this is everything I have on this game so I have nothing else to give.

[Master Ruck]

So seeing as you started with those answers, can you confirm if they are right, and if not then what do you have? I think at this point it doesn't matter as even though scum might gain some powers, having town get 1, maybe 2, extra powers will easily overpower the remaining scum and point them out with ease.

[Master Ruck]

Also, Jahudo, you say you had a power last night that let you bypass an alert to cheat. you also said that the power was an item yet you failed to say what the item was. What was it?

[Master Ruck]

GW, I don't understand what you're trying to say. I put you down as giving me the answers to #4 and #11, and I'm also well aware you had the answer to #8 wrong whereby I corrected you on that. I'd also like you to answer Jahudo in regards to where you got the answer to #11. You told me you cheated to get the answers you traded to me, yet you never said on who you cheated.

[Master Ruck]

Has this theory been proven in any way, and do you feel like divulging it to the rest of the class?

[Master Ruck]

Ghost, you are aware that submitting a wrong answer is a minus point, right? I doubt anyone would just put on answers to throw people off if they cheat on you, especially when we are all given alerts to prevent people from cheating on us in the first place. For that matter, I find your theory for guessing the answers ridiculous. Presuming you're town, you want as many point as you can on the test to get powers to help town. Basing a number of your answers on

possible

links that I don't think even exist (based solely on my thoughts that the entire test is made up. No relation to anything) is a horribly anti-town thing to do as you're giving yourself nothing to give town to help scum hunt.

Unless, of course, you actually answer my previous question and say if this theory proved effective or not.

[Master Ruck]

I'll confirm it as well. I wanted to be sure so I didn't end up cheating then missing out on the chance to use a cop scan.

[Master Ruck]

So basically we are now in the situation that either DGB or GW is scum right?

Or? Why or?

[Master Ruck]

I'm calling for a popcorn method of claiming. What did everybody do last night, who did they target, and what results did they get.

[Master Ruck]

First, sirD, if you look back, I already claimed as the Cheerleader and nothing has changed that since, so it still remains true. I tried to use my jailer on Ghost Writer last night, but I was redirected and I don't know who to.

Now, someone tried to stop you redirecting. Perhaps you can be less vague and explain that. Did they, or did they not succeed in stopping you?

[Master Ruck]

Against what was once my better judgement, I will believe Ghost as I had voices in my head convince me otherwise for my target, and I will also confirm Axel told me he would cop scan Jahudo that night. I actually thought it was a good idea at the time as I didn't expect all of this hullabaloo so I didn't see anything wrong in it. All of a sudden I am no longer certain of axel's towniness.

Question for Ghost, though. That power you claimed, is that a natural skill or did you get it through answers? The fact you've been able to use it more than once is concerning as all other powers I've had and heard of were all one-shot. Are you also implying that you've had no other powers since then, even with all the answers provided to you yesterday? I figure you would use something more reliable than the half-broken thing you have there if given the chance.

[Master Ruck]

Oh, and sirD, you have yet to answer my question. Do you know if you were blocked or not? This is vital to know.

[Master Ruck]

Sorry, my bad sir. You did answer. I somehow missed it completely.

[Master Ruck]

So you did get it from answers on the test, I'm guessing. Maybe it's balanced seeing as you said the item is unreliable. It's useful, but it doesn't always hit your intended target. There is something else that can make sense of what you heard as well. It's highly possible that Jahudo got a power and used it on sirD, which is why you heard the two of them together but not a killing, obviously because Jahudo didn't kill anybody.

Axel, I am very bluntly told my ability was redirected and unless sirD can say he was equally bluntly told he was successful, then I think I can guess that I targetted sirD last night. I can't have used it on Jahudo as it was a jailer meaning he should have been saved from the doc part of it.

All of which makes me think more so that Axel may be scum. I have openly given away the most information in this game and even more openly discussed my plans with Axel. If he is scum, he knew all my plans that would have brought the last scum to light and ended the game, so he would have ample time to think of ways to sabotage it and bring about the final necessary mislynch to give scum their win. I aimed to jail Ghost so if there was no kill, then ghost was scum. The fact I was redirected and a kill still went through should make me mislynch ghost anyway as he was a big suspect of mine at the time. Now, with my well laid plans so effectively demolished, I can only think that only someone who knew the full plans could have demolished them so well.

These are all just my thoughts and subject to be horribly wrong, but right now they are my strongest thoughts and Axel will have to do something else incredible to shake them.

[Master Ruck]

Wait, sirD. You did something last night, that much I can believe, but were you told that everything you sent to iLord went through? Maybe you did something but you redirected someone else to Axel.

[Master Ruck]

Right. Now, if we are to believe all of the claims made today, then Axel made a cop scan on Jahudo which is now null. Simple as, he's solved. I used my jailer on ghost, but I was redirected to someone else and I was not told who. I likely targetted sirD as someone tried to block him, yet for some reason it failed and he redirected GW anyway. The redirection was successful, but ghost's device went haywire again and despite being redirected, he either redirected himself to either Jahudo or sirD. Jahudo's power, if he used one, is a mystery. Now if we make an educated guess and say that Jahudo got a redirection too, then he sent me to sirD and would solve everything.

Problem is, one of us is scum and is likely to be lying. If I'm lying, then the roleblock on sirD is completely unexplained. If axel is lying, there are still no contradictions and there's nothing we can do to prove his honesty in this matter. If Ghost is lying then sirD likely had nothing to connect himself to Jahudo last night at all, and if sirD is lying my roleblock should have gone through but as there was a kill it wouldn't make him scum.

Something has just hit me. I'm still making a guess, but I think GW's power is a watcher ability that doesn't always target who he wants. As he said, he targetted Malthusis and was told DGB killed him a couple nights ago. This time, he targetted sirD, got redirected to axel, but malfunctioned and watched sirD anyway. If he had watched Jahudo, he would have seen who killed him, so I'm still guessing he watched sirD. Now, if we assume everyone is telling the truth again, then why did Ghost not hear me talking to him as well as I am the one most likely to have targetted him thanks to my redirection, and what did Jahudo do with sirD last night?

Sadly, this now gets me nowhere. Ghost can't be lying unless sirD is as well as there was a kill last night, and townies wouldn't lie at this stage. SirD has also been established that if he lied, then my block on him went through and if he is scum, thus has a reason to lie, then no kill should have gone through as it would have been blocked. Hmm, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this did get me somewhere. I'm town, if sirD is lying he actually got roleblocked and Ghost can only have possibly made the kill if sirD is lying as well, which is absurd. Logical conclusion, axel is the last scum.

I will hold off on my vote and leave this post here for anyone else to pick at and see if I'm wrong anywhere. I normally am, but if nobody else can see anything wrong, then I'm voting Axel.

[Master Ruck]

What we need now is for Ghost to show up and explain his device in more detail. I think I'm right in my guess, but obviously I'd need ghost to confirm it to whatever level he can.

[Master Ruck]

Considering the number of players left, I'm going to sugest something radical. We no lynch today, let scum kill someone tonight, then with maybe another couple of powers used and one less suspect, it may be easier to find the last scum. Right now it's too complex for us to figure out. Far too many twists and turns.

[Master Ruck]

I'll put my vote towards a no lynch for today, but I do want to hear from GW again at least one more time before we end the day.

[Master Ruck]

I think that's all the information we can get today, then. Well, except for this.

1=B
2=B
3=D
4=C
5=C
6=D
7=B
8=B
9=D
10=C
11=A
12=D
13=C
14=D
15=C

This is the updated answer sheet I sent in last night, and it's gotten me a total of 3 powers over the course of the game. Use it and it may grant you another power that could be of more use. As for now...

Vote: No Lynch

[Master Ruck]

That's not a hammer. 4 alive means 3 to no lynch. We need either ghost or axel to hammer.

[Master Ruck]

Oh, and I'm thinking scum may not have many powers left to gain, anyway. There were 3, all with their own answers to start with and all able to talk during the night. I doubt it would have taken them long, what with all the trades they all would have done, to get the most amount of powers they could early in the game.

[Master Ruck]

I don't know, actually. I've looked back through the topic and my inbox and I can't find anything that may have made me change. All I can think of is maybe I put it in wrong as this was the list I sent to iLord. I'll put it back to B tonight and see what happens.

[Master Ruck]

Well, this is interesting. Let's try this again. What did everyone do last night and what were they told happened when they tried it?

[Master Ruck]

Now, I

think

I have it, but let's hear sird next as I wanna confirm it.

[Master Ruck]

I

did

aim for sird last night, but I was redirected. I wasn't told who to, only that whoever I watched Axel targetted them. I'm gonna guess I ended up watching ghost. What I want to know is why Axel decided to use his doc power in the end. He told me that he was thinking of not using it as a 3-man end would make things easier to solve and that if there was no death, it would be one among whatever number of possibilities as to why a kill didn't go through. If he had all this logic, then why did he go ahead and use it?

[Master Ruck]

Well, this is a problem. Jahudo had the same power a while ago, yet he is now dead so he can't confirm whether he would be allowed to use that and another power in the same night.

Mod: Can a player use more than one power in a single night?

[Master Ruck]

Ghost, there is another possible explanation you haven't mentioned. You could also know that if you were the one who redirected me and, seeing as you would know that, you could make an accurate fake reading and look correct the following day.

[Master Ruck]

I would think a normal ability would be something like a cop, doc, watcher, etc so it's understandable only one can be used per night. Special abilities would be something like the mafia or the SK kill, but I'm also tempted to believe that the power Axel and Jahudo claim to have had can be classed as a special ability seeing as you would only see it in this game.

Ghost, you are losing credibility. Plead a case that covers your actions across the whole game that shows us you are not scum.

[Master Ruck]

sird, I don't have any record of you saying the results of what you did last night. I think I'm making progress in my thought process, but hearing what you found out would help.

[Master Ruck]

*facepalm*

Duh. Ok, I read that post differently and I thought that was your interpretation of it instead of you saying what you saw. Regardless, Axel is scum, and it's actually quite simple. I'm town, sird is town, and it was proven yesterday that Ghost can't have killed anyone. Among the mass powers and riddles that have come along with it, this seems almost scum fueled as they make themselves look as simple as possible while making the whole riddle as complex as possible.

I looked back at his posts as well and for most of the day he replaced in on he constantly asked everyone to say how many answers they started with. This is a way of letting the scum know who can confirm the most answers and then kill so more answers remain a mystery that scum can control. There was also that whole mess with who cheated and traded off who to get which answer that may or may not have been confirmed. Now we have hindsight, everyone who was involved in that was either scum or the SK and with the way Axel kept saying only one of them must be lying would hopefully have led us to believe only one of them was scum. Not that it mattered for much longer as he had found a new buddy in me.

Cor, answering my mass trade and me getting a couple of powers was perhaps the luckiest break Axel got. If a scum could almost fully convince another townie they are scum, then they pretty much have a free ride to end game. He knew I had hit scum with my cop scan on DGB so if he followed me and kept being my buddy the whole way then he may end up looking as town as I did.

I started not liking him when he said he would use his cop scan on Jahudo. I didn't think he was worth it and that ghost would be a better target, but he ignored that and said he didn't like the comments Jahudo made against him. I figured at the least it would be another confirmed townie if not scum, but Axel saying he cop scan'd Jahudo seems like axel's cover if anyone tried to watch or track him so he would have some kind of backup in me.

As for last night, I think Axel chose to no kill. We're still at lylo so the easiest thing to do is wait for a mislynch then kill the last townie and win. If he kills before that, there would be a paper trail a mile long especially with 2 tracker and watcher powers swimming around last night. To that end, I think Axel redirected me and I haven't a clue what he did to Ghost. Maybe he truly did have that special cheating power and he wanted to see if ghost did update his quiz at last.

Regardless of all this, the game breaking town win was said quit plainly at the start of this post. I'm town, sird is town, ghost can't possibly have killed Jahudo, so Axel is scum.

Vote: Axelrod

[Master Ruck]

SirD claimed a re-direct of GW to me. He said he was told it was "successful."

You've said all you needed to say right here. The mod told SirD his redirection was successful. The mod would not lie, meaning it was successful. GW targetted you that night so he can't possibly have killed Jahudo. It is simple. You killed Jahudo. You are scum.

[Master Ruck]

Oh, and I don't believe the kills are immune to redirection. Otherwise it would instantly become less of a power. You are now just trying to cover yourself.

[Master Ruck]

Gah, triple post. Ok, maybe I did over exagerate our talks a little bit, but even you have to admit that choosing to scan Jahudo just because he made a comment or two against you is a pretty poor reason for choosing him. When I chose to scan DGB, I ignored pretty much everything everyone said about me or anyone else and worked off off vibes and a bit of elimination. Surely GW would have been a better scan, even if he was proven town?

[Master Ruck]

I think Axel chose not to kill last night and targetted both me and Ghost. We're still in lylo unless something happens during the night to block the kill, so a mislynch here would still likely grant scum as much victory as if there were 3. Also, more people gives more targets to shift the blame to. With only 3 people, it's possible to come to some kind of concencus and narrow down the last scum more easily.

Axel, you say you're not a fan of WIFOM arguments? I don't believe you. This whole thing screams WIFOM and it's all been helped by you making this as difficult and complex a puzzle for us to try and solve. Why can it not be as simple as I see it? Why must we continue to overthink this and get absolutely nowhere? Surely town would look for a simple solution while scum would try and get everyone so caught up they forget to look for scum.

Last night I think Axel did get that special cheating power which he used on Ghost to confirm if he had updated his test or not. Then he also used his redirection power on me under the ruse of a doc protection, which would mean nothing as there would be no kill that night to protect against. I was redirected to watch ghost, which is confirmed with my watching him to see axel target him. Ghost tracked me to see i targetted him and watched me to see Axel targetting me. Sird tracked axel and saw he targetted both me and ghost. I see night 5 as solved which was axel trying to make this as confusing as possible.

[Master Ruck]

Actually, ghost, if I were to take a guess, I think sird is referring to your guessing some answers with that strange theory you had.

[Master Ruck]

But, it does raise again one of the issues I have with GW's claim, which is that it's different from everyone else's.

So? I'm actually thinking this may make GW look more town as I severely doubt the scum would take such a gambit and come up with a power so different to everyone else. On top of that, if he is telling the truth and he is scum, he would most certainly

not

let the town know of this incredible power as he would instead do what he could to keep it hidden and pass off just enough information.

[Master Ruck]

Why, then, do you wait until now to reveal that? You told me why you were going to scan Jahudo so why not give your full reasoning? We basically trusted each other in full so it would have made more sense for you to explain this as well instead of saving it until now to tack on as another reason. I don't buy that one bit.

[Master Ruck]

I know full well you claimed to scan Jahudo N4. You even gave me reasons as to why you wanted to scan him. My question, if you chose not to deliberately misinterpret it, is why you did not also state that as one of your reasons when, if true, should clearly have existed at the time instead of just now.

[Master Ruck]

Axel, town would do whatever they could to NOT sit on their bum and do nothing. Doing anything, even something as simple as attempting to cheat, is not nearly as bad as doing nothing. I'm not seeing why a blocked cheat would make you feel he was scummy either. Every night I have set up alerts against every player alive and so did Dattebayo before me. They are there for protection so Jahudo must have done as I did by setting up alerts against every player he could. That you weren't able to cheat off him does not give even a tiny reason to think he is scum(my).

Sird, I've got the razor and shaved twice over with it already with my vote ages ago. I dunno what all you guys are waiting for.

[Master Ruck]

Aye, brilliant game. Well done iLord, and to everyone else still alive here too. I almost consider this victory luck with my cop scan on DGB and sird redirecting me N4. Oh, and being told I was a Mason with sird last night helped as it gave me one less person to suspect.

All in all, though, a very enjoyable game. Thanks to all.