-XylBot- Game over! Winners page 56.

[Tarhalindur]

!vote zwetschenwasser

Suffice it to say that you are not currently playing to town meta - you're not being silly and carefree enough. (Can't give a good link, the best example is an ongoing Mini.)

[Tarhalindur]

!Vote DGB

Tar; Do you have an examplre from anon-ongoing game?

Zwetschenwasser has only 1 completed game - Open 117 - where he's more serious than usual, so no.

!vote zwetschenwasser

Suffice it to say that you are not currently playing to town meta - you're not being silly and carefree enough. (Can't give a good link, the best example is an ongoing Mini.)

Bullocks. Or bus'ing. Time will tell.

Of course it's mostly bullshit, there's no way I can be sure that he's being too serious just yet. I'm just trying to get out of the random stage.

[Tarhalindur]

This gets its own post because I want it to stand out.

First testsetup with a cult in it:

-TestBot- [wacky] cult: Cult Leader; mafia: Disabler, Tracker, Twin, Mafioso; town: Mason (x2), One-Shot Redirecter, Faith Healer, Cop, Mirror, Roleblocker (Killer), Retired Cop, Poisoner, Skulker, Super-Saint, Robot, Townie, Lovestruck Townie

Could explain the fact that there was only 1 kill; some 19P wacky setups have 3 separate scum teams, so I'm surprised that no one else died.

No vote yet.

Okay, HERE's the kind of post I was keeping an eye out for.

Setup speculation + possible inside information* + possible Sucks for Us! Tell? DIE, SCUM, DIE.

!vote Kevy

[Tarhalindur]

confirm !vote tarhalindur

"just want to get out of the random stage" is the biggest load of crap excuse ever

attack on kevy is total bullshit. note the heavy use of the word "possible" because he's just throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks.

1) Hi, my name is Tarhalindur, and I sometimes do silly things during random vote stage.

2) I was trying to be subtle. Since that doesn't seem to be working, let's use the blunt instrument: I have REASON TO BELIEVE that Kevy just let slip that the Mafia kill was not aimed at Seraphim. I am reluctant to explain further at this time.

Am I clear?

[Tarhalindur]

2) I was trying to be subtle. Since that doesn't seem to be working, let's use the blunt instrument: I have REASON TO BELIEVE that Kevy just let slip that the Mafia kill was not aimed at Seraphim. I am reluctant to explain further at this time.

Am I clear?

i have REASON TO BELIEVE that you are totally full of shit

Now, I'm going to be generous here and assume that you don't know what "reason to believe" terminology means (mainly based on your attack, which gives me the impression that you are severely misguided town). Keep in mind that this is the ONLY reason I am not locking on to (promising to vote you PERMANENTLY, until such time that either you die or I die) you on the spot for this post.

I am utterly, 100%, there is only one possible way I am wrong here* sure that you do not have a reason to believe that I am full of shit.

Strong feeling, perhaps. All-but-certain, quite possibly, but I GUARANTEE you that you do not have a reason to believe that I am full of shit. As in, if you claim a "reason to believe" that I am lying, then I KNOW you are LYING and, barring a very stupid town who doesn't know to lynch counterclaimed scum, you WILL be dead by the end of Day 2. (If you don't know what "reason to believe" terminology means, you really need to read my previous games... like, say, Random Mafia 3, where I used the term liberally.)

* - that one possible way being that what you're interpreting as a reason to believe that I am lying is, in fact, the reason why you can't have a reason to believe that I am lying.

If you do not recant your claim that you have "reason to believe" that I am full of shit, however, I guarantee that you are scum.

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, time to pick apart this post point by point.

This gets its own post because I want it to stand out.

First testsetup with a cult in it:

-TestBot- [wacky] cult: Cult Leader; mafia: Disabler, Tracker, Twin, Mafioso; town: Mason (x2), One-Shot Redirecter, Faith Healer, Cop, Mirror, Roleblocker (Killer), Retired Cop, Poisoner, Skulker, Super-Saint, Robot, Townie, Lovestruck Townie

Could explain the fact that there was only 1 kill; some 19P wacky setups have 3 separate scum teams, so I'm surprised that no one else died.

No vote yet.

Okay, HERE's the kind of post I was keeping an eye out for.

Setup speculation + possible inside information* + possible Sucks for Us! Tell? DIE, SCUM, DIE.

!vote Kevy

Setup speculation = I play XylBot a lot
"Possible inside information" = I play XylBot a lot

1) I don't care that

2) I was trying to be subtle. Since that doesn't seem to be working, let's use the blunt instrument: I have REASON TO BELIEVE that Kevy just let slip that the Mafia kill was not aimed at Seraphim. I am reluctant to explain further at this time.

Am I clear?

Multiple things wrong with this one.

First of all, you're rolehinting; are you serious?

Yes - I'm more than willing to trade a little rolebased info for a scumbag. There may or may not be other reasons for any rolehinting.

Second, why are you even ASKING if you're clear or not? I seriously hope you're joking because you're trying WAY too hard to appear town. By asking if you have a "reason to believe", you just put a blatant target on your back. This is not productive town play.

!vote Tarhalindur

For bad day 1 play, not necessarily deserving of a lynch, but I feel that a vote is in order.

Okay, let's break this down, folks.

1) Let's see. "Am I clear" is an idiomatic expression in American English that is used to ask whether someone understands the point you are trying to get across. Maybe, just maybe, it would stand to reason that I was using the idiom to try to point out that there was additional meaning in my earlier post? You're either woefully ignorant or willfully misrepresenting my post.

2) "This is not productive town play"... town has to be productive at all times how, exactly? Town can't play suboptimally in the early game in an attempt to bait out opportunistic scum/catch more scum later why, exactly?

3) Let's take a look at this in depth: "For bad day 1 play, not necessarily deserving of a lynch, but I feel that a vote is in order".

First: Bad Day 1 play is not a good reason for a vote unless that bad Day 1 play indicates that the player you are voting is more likely to be scum. I've seen far better players than myself play poorly as Town D1 for the reasons I listed in the second sentence of point 2 (see: Glork in Mini 594, Elmo in Battlestar Galactica Mini).

Second: "Not necessarily deserving of a lynch." Very interesting phrasing there. Think about that statement for a moment, people. Note how Kevy is specifically supporting a Tarhalindur lynch without throwing his full weight behind it - giving him an easy way out if a Tar wagon disintegrates ("Oh, I said we shouldn't necessarily lynch him, but my vote was still correct") OR when I come up town after lynch ("I didn't say we should actually lynch him...").
Now, think about the mindset Kevy is showing. This statement implies that we should lynch players for being "deserving of a lynch", rather than behaving like scum often do. What the hell does "deserving of a lynch" mean, anyways? It can mean "behaving like scum often do", but it doesn't have to - Kevy could decide that someone "deserves to be lynched" because that person attacked him, or started joking around, or wore green socks on Tuesday. In other words, "deserving of a lynch" is perfect cover for a scum to use to justify a vote on a player they know is town.

Third: "But I feel that a vote is in order." Again, the phrasing is noteworthy. It does two things: it distances Kevy from the vote (he may or may not be voting because he thinks I am scum - he doesn't say either way), and it suggests that a townie should vote because it is called for (the situation requires it) rather than because that townie thinks the voted player is scum or because lynching that player will increase town's chances of winning the game (in endgame situations).*

* - There are some actions that can warrant a vote, but they warrant a vote only because they have clear scum motivation or are statistically more likely to come from scum. We call them scumtells.

[Tarhalindur]

let me translate what tarhalindur just said: i brought way too much heat down on myself with my bullshit attacks so i'll try and scare everyone off with a softclaim which says "not me! look at kevy!"

Hey look, nice misrepresentation. That wasn't an attack on Kevy; the attack on Kevy was in the post that I posted after the one you responded to. The post you're responding to was an attempt to confirm or deny that you just claimed rolebased information on me (in other words, trying to tell if I was in a position to counterclaim).

this is the part where tar's previous threat of a neverending omgus vote actually materializes, proving that tar's supposed evidence against kevy is total crap, because if he had REASON TO BELIEVE that kevy let slip he's mafia then he would not stop voting his caught scum. the fact that he's willing to switch his vote to me in spite of this shows that his blustering is all just smoke and mirrors.

More misrepresentation!

1) Show exactly where and, more importantly, how I have threatened a neverending OMGUS vote, because I'm not seeing it.
2) Okay, your claim that "if he had REASON TO BELIEVE that kevy let slip he's mafia then he would not stop voting his caught scum" is just a load of crap. I have reason to believe (read: moderately reliable rolebased information) that Kevy is scum, based on his comments about a possible missing kill and the fact that no known N0 kill magnets died last night, but I am not absolutely sure that he is scum. If you claimed rolebased against me (which you DID in your post 62, intentionally or not - note DGB's reaction), then I would KNOW that you are lying and therefore scum. As in, I would be COUNTERCLAIMING you (there is absolutely no way that you could have used an ability on me last night). A 99.9% chance of lynching scum is better than a ~70% chance of lynching scum, thank you very much.

The ONLY reason I did not vote you immediately after you claimed rolebased information on me is because I assumed that you didn't know what "reason to believe" actually meant. Since you have demonstrated that you understand what the phrase means (see the second part of the quoted post), then the logical conclusion is that you previously claimed rolebased on me and have not retracted that claim, then I have to assume that you are still claiming rolebased against me, which means I am in a position to counterclaim.

I still think Kevy is probable scum, but as of now you're an even better candidate than him. Why? Because you're COUNTERCLAIMED, that's why.

!vote roflcopter

[Tarhalindur]

Oh lord.

Keep in mind that this is the ONLY reason I am not locking on to (promising to vote you PERMANENTLY, until such time that either you die or I die) you on the spot for this post.

Really? Could you be any more obvious?

I am utterly, 100%,

there is only one possible way I am wrong here*

sure that you do not have a reason to believe that I am full of shit.

Only one possible way? I can think of three off the top of my head:
1. Non-sane inspection
2. Millers
3. Twins

* - that one possible way being that what you're interpreting as a reason to believe that I am lying is, in fact, the reason why you can't have a reason to believe that I am lying.

.....

Anyways.

Whatever your "reason to believe" is, I can guarantee that you're putting too much trust into it and ignoring everything else. Especially with comments like the first quote saying that you're inches away from VOTING ONE PERSON AND NEVER CHANGING, you are definitely not thinking thoroughly OR playing a pro-town game.

And as a final note, roflcopter is town.

What part of "roflcopter just claimed that he has rolebased information on me, therefore I am in a position to counterclaim" don't you understand? Or are you saying that you don't think he has rolebased information on me?

(Note that my current case against him is ONLY because he claimed rolebased on me when he couldn't possibly have rolebased on me - there are reasons why the objections you have are invalid. Roflcopter doesn't have rolebased information of any kind on me.

[Tarhalindur]

I looked at your actual vote on me.

Setup speculation + possible inside information* + possible Sucks for Us! Tell? DIE, SCUM, DIE.

!vote Kevy

This was your original reason for voting me. Supposedly speculating the setup is a scummy action, even though populartajo ran a testsetup on page one, in this post. Why did you not vote HIM for "speculating the setup"?

Because a) it's poptajo (who I know plays scummily as town - the kind of player I prefer investigated or vigged if possible), and I'll need some time to get a read on him, b) his only "setup speculation" consisted of showing how to get a test setup on XylBot, and c) he didn't mention the possibility of a missing second kill, while you did.

1) Hi, my name is Tarhalindur, and I sometimes do silly things during random vote stage.

Translation:
"Hi, my name is Tarhalindur, and I'm going to vote randomly."

2) I was trying to be subtle. Since that doesn't seem to be working, let's use the blunt instrument: I have REASON TO BELIEVE that Kevy just let slip that the Mafia kill was not aimed at Seraphim. I am reluctant to explain further at this time.

You were trying to be subtle? WAS THERE ANY HINT OF THIS IN YOUR ORIGINAL POST WITH YOUR VOTE ON ME? Please point it out, because it definitely WAS NOT subtle; it was nonexistant. Essentially, what you did is "randomly" vote me, then pull a BS case on me out of nowhere (this is your "reason to believe"). You didn't mention your hidden "reason" at all in your original vote.

I was trying not to reveal that I had rolebased unless I had to (as long as I didn't claim rolebased, there was a decent chance the Mafia might do something stupid again). This became necessary shortly thereafter (both to explain the attack and because the chance that the Mafia would do something stupid decreased), hence why I clarified.

1) Let's see. "Am I clear" is an idiomatic expression in American English that is used to ask whether someone understands the point you are trying to get across.

Sarcasm doesn't make you look more town.

And I, frankly, don't give a damn about whether you think sarcasm makes me look town or not.

First: Bad Day 1 play is not a good reason for a vote unless that bad Day 1 play indicates that the player you are voting is more likely to be scum.

Yes it is. Personally, I don't want garbage playing to go any farther than day 1, so that's why my vote is on you.

You don't lynch players for being garbage, you lynch them because you think they are scum. Doing otherwise is a quick road to a town defeat. This goes double for players who tend to play much better on later days.

Third: "But I feel that a vote is in order." Again, the phrasing is noteworthy. It does two things: it distances Kevy from the vote (he may or may not be voting because he thinks I am scum - he doesn't say either way), and it suggests that a townie should vote because it is called for (the situation requires it) rather than because that townie thinks the voted player is scum or because lynching that player will increase town's chances of winning the game (in endgame situations).*

That's a real good attempt at trying to be insightful. But my vote isn't very valuable when it's 10 to lynch. A vote was in order, but I didn't see it going anywhere at the time, and now I do.

Case in point, I think you're all flashy talk and no actual game. Your case on me is scummy. You went from "random voting" to "well, now I have a reason, but I didn't mention it at all when I actually voted you". Town tries to vote for scum when they have an actual reason, yeah? Not a fabricated one that is created only AFTER the actual vote.[/quote]

1) I was TRYING to get you lynched without necessarily having to reveal my rolebased.
2) There was at least one clear scumtell in your first post even without using rolebased (the setup speculation).
3) Your reaction/case against me is scummy as all hell (specifically: indicative of a scum mindset), for reasons explained in the quoted post.

Also, nice disdainful attitude towards my attack. Instead of showing how your words could be explained from a town mindset, you just call it a "good attempt to be insightful".

[Tarhalindur]

this is just a laugh riot. you not so subtly imply that you have a role based reason to vote for kevy, then you turn around and give us post 72 which is anything but a rolebased reason.

Hint: Rolebased doesn't have to mean investigation. See: Random Mafia 3.

Town can't play suboptimally in the early game in an attempt to bait out opportunistic scum/catch more scum later why, exactly?

scum use this same bullshit excuse to explain away their "suboptimal town play" all the time and its getting very stale

Give specific examples from completed games, please. A vague "scum do this all the time" just isn't convincing on its own.

Bad Day 1 play is not a good reason for a vote unless that bad Day 1 play indicates that the player you are voting is more likely to be scum. I've seen far better players than myself play poorly as Town D1 for the reasons I listed in the second sentence of point 2 (see: Glork in Mini 594, Elmo in Battlestar Galactica Mini).

self-deprecating appeals to authority will fool no one

Why should I fucking care if anyone is actually going to believe me? All I can do is to explain why I took the actions I did as town.

This statement implies that we should lynch players for being "deserving of a lynch", rather than behaving like scum often do. What the hell does "deserving of a lynch" mean, anyways? It can mean "behaving like scum often do", but it doesn't have to - Kevy could decide that someone "deserves to be lynched" because that person attacked him, or started joking around, or wore green socks on Tuesday. In other words, "deserving of a lynch" is perfect cover for a scum to use to justify a vote on a player they know is town.

please, put more misrepresentative words in kevy's mouth, this is really quite entertaining

Care to explain exactly how I'm being misrepresentative? Because I'm not seeing it.

---

oh lord, 76 is a doozie

lets see, i think you just said you're counterclaiming me without either of us ACTUALLY CLAIMING. and this makes me 99.9% likely scum, which is better than kevy's 70% chance of being scum based on vaguely implied but as yet unrevealed role based knowledge. i'm still trying to grasp how you think this song and dance will actually help the town.

(Note that my current case against him is ONLY because he claimed rolebased on me when he couldn't possibly have rolebased on me - there are reasons why the objections you have are invalid. Roflcopter doesn't have rolebased information of any kind on me.

let me ask you one very simple question here.

where did i say that i have role based information

on you

?

looks like somebody just assumed i was a cop with a guilty because he's guilty and went into panic scum counterclaim mode

That's quite easy.

2) I was trying to be subtle. Since that doesn't seem to be working, let's use the blunt instrument: I have REASON TO BELIEVE that Kevy just let slip that the Mafia kill was not aimed at Seraphim. I am reluctant to explain further at this time.

Am I clear?

i have REASON TO BELIEVE that you are totally full of shit

You wouldn't use that phrasing unless a) you have role-based (investigative or otherwise) or b) you didn't know that "reason to believe" signified role-based information.

My post 70 specifically gave you a way to confirm that this was not meant to imply that you were claiming role-based information on me; you did not do so. Consider this another offer (as I said, the ONLY reason I am voting for you is because I know damn well that you can't have rolebased on me - if it were not for that, I would consider you town based on your attack, however misguided).

[Tarhalindur]

Also, since I may not have as much time to post for the next few days:

Mod: I am V/LA for at least the next week (can post, just not as much.)

[Tarhalindur]

let me put it to you this way then - i know that you are full of shit when you say your role based information makes kevy 70% likely to be scum

Note: 70% chance to be scum is more like a 70% yield in chemistry than anything - it means there is a significantly increased chance that the player is scum (definitely strong enough to build a case on, especially early, but not 100% conclusive). That's why I was building a case on Kevy - the rolebased is not absolute proof that he is scum.

I now recognize what you are trying to say. There's only 1 consistent scenario here.

!unvote

(Hope this works.)

[Tarhalindur]

I still think Kevy is probable scum, but as of now you're an even better candidate than him. Why? Because you're COUNTERCLAIMED, that's why.

!vote roflcopter

let me ask you one very simple question here.

where did i say that i have role based information on you?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I now recognize what you are trying to say. There's only 1 consistent scenario here.

!unvote

The only consistent scenario here is that you've been votehopping like mad on the basis of arbitrary percents of scumminess.

Can we lynch Tarhalindur yet? Really the only thing I get out of him is tons of deflection, then doesn't stick to his own story when he gets roasted. Never in my life have I ever seen a person beat around the bush so much about their "foolproof" reason only to have them CHANGE TARGETS AND THEN UNVOTE.

As it stands right now, with a portion of our town not having posted in a while, I want Tarhalindur lynched because no one else is a worthy candidate. I am not only voting you because I think you are bad town, I am also voting you for playing like scum.

I attacked roflcopter because I thought he claimed role-based information on me. TARGETED role-based information, specifically. If he had, I would be in counterclaim position. Since he's claimed nontargeted role-based, I am not in a position to counterclaim.

I backed off of you because I see role-based information saying that you are innocent that I consider more reliable than my own if you are telling the truth, and the downside (the possibility that you are lying) can be ignored for now because if either you or roflcopter are proven to be lying then the other will be lynched instantly. Keep in mind that this is the only reason I am unvoting.

[Tarhalindur]

!vote kevy

Don't think you could have made a post that would make more more suspicious of you than that one...

Back the fuck off of kevy, people. We can deal with him if/when roflcopter comes up not town (or deal with roflcopter when Kevy turns up not town).

[Tarhalindur]

this is just a laugh riot. you not so subtly imply that you have a role based reason to vote for kevy, then you turn around and give us post 72 which is anything but a rolebased reason.

Hint: Rolebased doesn't have to mean investigation. See: Random Mafia 3.

that response is practically a non sequiter when you look at what you were actually responding to. i'm saying if you're so convinced that your role based reasoning makes kevy scum, why did you turn around and try to pound some bullshit non-role reasons down our throat and leave role based reasoning out of it altogether.

1) I still consider Kevy's actions scummy, for reasons listed above. If not for your claimed rolebased information, I would still be attacking him. It's the same kind of situation as town backing off of a player when a cop claims that they are innocent.
2) Why the fuck shouldn't I try to back up rolebased information by demonstrating how the person in question is playing scummily?

Town can't play suboptimally in the early game in an attempt to bait out opportunistic scum/catch more scum later why, exactly?

scum use this same bullshit excuse to explain away their "suboptimal town play" all the time and its getting very stale

Give specific examples from completed games, please. A vague "scum do this all the time" just isn't convincing on its own.

oh please sending me a meta sidequest is not going to accomplish anything here, its just a deflection on your part

The burden of proof here is on you. Defense using "suboptimal town play" is a NULL TELL AT BEST until you prove otherwise - until you do so, I will simply consider this charge totally invalid.

Bad Day 1 play is not a good reason for a vote unless that bad Day 1 play indicates that the player you are voting is more likely to be scum. I've seen far better players than myself play poorly as Town D1 for the reasons I listed in the second sentence of point 2 (see: Glork in Mini 594, Elmo in Battlestar Galactica Mini).

self-deprecating appeals to authority will fool no one

Why should I fucking care if anyone is actually going to believe me? All I can do is to explain why I took the actions I did as town.

and this is a deflection of the initial accusation as well (that being your ata fallacy).

Appeal to authority? Try "showing that there is precedent for town players playing poorly Day 1 to catch scum later" and thus that there is a known town motivation for playing poorly Day - unless you can prove that this is invalid, I have proved that playing poorly Day 1 is a NULL TELL.

[Tarhalindur]

Everything he's been saying!

This is a useless comment, and you know it.

Calling wording of a question a scumtell

Please quote said question, and explain why it is flawed/scummy.

throwing around philosophical garbage

So?

pulling probabilities out of the air

You know very well this is role related.

They're also a heuristic device. They are intended as a shorthand to show how much more likely than baseline (here I'm using 50% as baseline for "no read") it is that someone is scum.

and major vote hopping.

Firstly, Tar has not stuck out to me as having vote hopped. But if he has, why is this scummy? It's not like he's throwing his vote around desperate to get a lynch on just anyone, so I fail to see how you can call this a scumtell.

I am not liking your attitude, zwet.

Since Xtoxm just asked all the questions I would have asked you - answer Xtoxm's questions, zwetschenwasser.

[Tarhalindur]

Xtotm, my point is that his debate with the other two people seems to be full of unrelated points that are quite confusing, which I think he's doing on purpose.

I'm not seeing that at all in my posts. I'm seeing a coherent attack/defense to show how my actions are consistent with a town mindset and how Kevy's actions could be (not are, since there is rolebased on him that I consider more reliable than my own) consistent with a scum mindset. Since you seem to disagree, give EXACT examples of these "unrelated points" that you are seeing, please. Point by point examples.

[Tarhalindur]

I see the current situation as this:
Tar attacked zwet and Kev for weak reasons, IMO. He excused himself with he does silly thing at the beginning of the game.
The rabbit called rolfcopter went crazy against him for reasons I find good enough for post randomstage. I know the rabbit and I can understand his point of view.
The interesting part comes from two sources. Kevy's reaction and Tar's reactions.
Kevy is obviously a IRCer, right? I rally dont like how every post of him there is something like "Im not sure you are scum, you are antitown as shit, so I vote you". I dont know if this is something from IRC but if you are not sure someone is scum then you simply dont vote it just because he is antitown and attacking you.
Now Tar, well its strange. I really thought he was the good player that avoided weak attacks like his at the beginning at the game (Really, attacking zwet?) I really dont know what to think of him other than he is either scum trapped in a series of not so well calculated lies or town trying desesperately to get off the hook without looking worse every time he posts. (something difficult with the rabbit going crazy against him).
Of course I would suggest stopping the wagon on him. Either town or scum Tar is obviously already pressured.
In a second plane, Im really interested in UROE. I have the feeling that he is defending Tar but at the same time supporting Kevi. Can you explain clearly whats your stance in all this mess?

This post is fucking bullshit. A lot of summary, not much interpretation, and what interpretation there is looks crappy (Why should we stop a wagon just because the wagonee is already pressured? Do you think UROE is scum, and if so for what reasons?) with the possible exception of anti-town=/=scum (I've been waffling over whether this is valid of late). This post looks like summary-IIoA to me (dodging commentary by giving summaries).

Also, where the fuck is your usual "you don't give away information as town that might help scum this early in the game" mindset?

!vote populartajo

[Tarhalindur]

I see the current situation as this:
Tar attacked zwet and Kev for weak reasons, IMO. He excused himself with he does silly thing at the beginning of the game.
The rabbit called rolfcopter went crazy against him for reasons I find good enough for post randomstage. I know the rabbit and I can understand his point of view.
The interesting part comes from two sources. Kevy's reaction and Tar's reactions.
Kevy is obviously a IRCer, right? I rally dont like how every post of him there is something like "Im not sure you are scum, you are antitown as shit, so I vote you". I dont know if this is something from IRC but if you are not sure someone is scum then you simply dont vote it just because he is antitown and attacking you.
Now Tar, well its strange. I really thought he was the good player that avoided weak attacks like his at the beginning at the game (Really, attacking zwet?) I really dont know what to think of him other than he is either scum trapped in a series of not so well calculated lies or town trying desesperately to get off the hook without looking worse every time he posts. (something difficult with the rabbit going crazy against him).
Of course I would suggest stopping the wagon on him. Either town or scum Tar is obviously already pressured.
In a second plane, Im really interested in UROE. I have the feeling that he is defending Tar but at the same time supporting Kevi. Can you explain clearly whats your stance in all this mess?

This post is fucking bullshit. A lot of summary, not much interpretation, and what interpretation there is looks crappy (Why should we stop a wagon just because the wagonee is already pressured? Do you think UROE is scum, and if so for what reasons?) with the possible exception of anti-town=/=scum (I've been waffling over whether this is valid of late). This post looks like summary-IIoA to me (dodging commentary by giving summaries).

Also, where the fuck is your usual "you don't give away information as town that might help scum this early in the game" mindset?

!vote populartajo

You people, specially you Tar, are understanding this wrong. The only thing I wanted to do was to prevent a quicklynch. The pressure was already there, so there would not be more retarded votes using that as an excuse.
I dont give a shit if you think I was doing IIoA or whatever you call it. So because I comment in the situation, I am scum? Go die on a fire. I CLEARLY stated my opinions and stances of every situation, so try again.
And where did I state that I played like "I don't give away information as town that might help scum this early in the game"? Every game is different and I play each one as I want.
Fianlly I never said UROE was scum. Im asking him becuase he is in a weird stance, supportin both you and Kev. I want him to explain this.
So you are just throwing shit around hoping somebody can be seen as bad as you currently are. Who was scum before? Kevi, rolf, me? Call it OMGUS, I dont fucking care. Please die !vote Tar.

1) If you had said "I don't want a quicklynch", I would have understood your intent. The problem is phrasing - you didn't mention (at least not explicitly) a desire to prevent a quicklynch in your earlier post, so when I first read your "he's pressured enough" post I interpreted your post as implying that there is an arbitrary level of pressure after which you don't need to pressure any more, which is just crappy logic.

2) What's missing from the earlier parts of your post is any explanation of whether other players' actions are town tells, scum tells, or null tells (and the one clear case where you showed how the actions made sense from a factional standpoint - interpreting my own actions - you explained how both made sense but didn't indicate which you thought more likely). That's why I called IIoA.

3) I can grant you that - I've just never seen you *not* explode for things like massclaims.

4) About UROE: read my post again. I asked you whether you thought UROE was scum because I wasn't sure whether or not you thought UROE was scummy and I wanted clarification. (The only reason I consider your comments about UROE somewhat scummy is for the aforementioned IIoA reason: lack of interpretation from a factional standpoint.

5) Throwing shit my foot. I'm looking for elements of posts which could indicate that the poster is scum, and attacking (pressuring) to force a response which can exonerate or condemn the player I'm pressuring. By the way, it works. Given this defense, you're obvtown.

!unvote

[Tarhalindur]

!vote drippinggoofball

your format is wrong causing scripting errors

btw dgb have you seen that comercial for match.com where theres a woman riding a horse and she says " i'm just a goof lookin for my ball"? that comercial makes me laugh cause it made me think of you lol

Why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends~?

thanks now thats stuck in my head

!unvote

why does this seem like the end of the blue collar comedy tour?

!vote Tarhalindur

but i concur with dgb assesment that armix is town,

DGB, RTFT.

what does RTFT mean??

ok i thought it was along those lines as a tech i have used RTFM but not RTFT lol

Does anybody else see the glaringly obvious problem in these posts? Hint: It involves making off-topic comments and not actually contributing in any meaningful way to the Mafia game we're playing. Why, it's almost like he's actively lurking or something! Oh wait...

!vote tubby216

Tubby, who do you think is scum, and why? Be detailed, please.

[Tarhalindur]

Tar.

~so far~ who is scum, who is town, and why. Thanks ahead.

Town:
- Kevy (I will not elaborate further)
- roflcopter (I will not elaborate further)
- poptajo (Defense in 118 is obvtown defense)

Leaning Town:
- DGB (meta, her attacks here look like the attacks she makes as town rather than the attacks she makes as scum)
- Xtoxm (He's asking questions that force other players to elaborate on their reasoning)

No Read:
- Vir4030 (need time to mull over his big post a bit longer)
- zwetschenwasser (either scum or idiot town, given his flawed attack on me and failure to answer Xtoxm's questions, but there's too much of a chance of the latter for me to decide yet)
- Everybody else (too few posts to get a good read)

Leaning Scum:
- UROE (reaction to massclaim is bullshit, especially given timing... finding ways to avoid claiming just before he's asked to claim? Problem is, it *might* be town bullshit, and active lurking is a far more reliable tell than reaction to massclaim IME.)
- Armlx (has only discussed massclaim so far and voted zwet so far, I want to see more out of him)
- Phate (has only discussed massclaim so far, again I want to see more out of him)

Scum:
- tubby216 (note lack of content in posts - I'm seeing active lurking/IIoA there)

[Tarhalindur]

Xtotm, my point is that his debate with the other two people seems to be full of unrelated points that are quite confusing, which I think he's doing on purpose.

I'm not seeing that at all in my posts. I'm seeing a coherent attack/defense to show how my actions are consistent with a town mindset and how Kevy's actions could be (not are, since there is rolebased on him that I consider more reliable than my own) consistent with a scum mindset. Since you seem to disagree, give EXACT examples of these "unrelated points" that you are seeing, please. Point by point examples.

Bingo. Notice that he claims he's actively trying to look town. UroE, I don't understand how to testsetup, and a massclaim could be useful.

Sorry, but no. It's called defense. Hell, the quoted post is for all practical purposes the definition I use for defense.

[Tarhalindur]

Tan, when did the only part of UROE's case being scum become "refusing to MC"?
Also where the hell is Tar?

Also, since I may not have as much time to post for the next few days:

Mod: I am V/LA for at least the next week (can post, just not as much.)

Hint: There's a reason I made that post. It's called "I may not have time to post because I'm fucking busy in real life" (it's also why my modded games are a bit short on vote counts/replacements right now). The last two days are good examples of this.

Expect more later tonight.

[Tarhalindur]

Quick notes from last few days (hate V/LA - genetics lab is time-consuming as all hell):

- Phate is so obviously scum it hurts (obviously not participating while trying to seem active = IIoA = supertell).
- UROE is also obvscum (especially thoughts on me vs. Kevy - seeing a townie fight is a weak scumtell - and recent play; defense of me could easily be attempt to pick up a pet townie). Not sure on the type, though - I got the impression he was dropping survivor/SK tells rather than Mafia tells.
- Weak scum read on zwet given high density of off topic posts.
- No good read on poptajo. Speaking of that, tajo should know that I only claim at L-2 barring particularly important rolebased info (which I don't have right now).
- tubby is likely bad town, given the wagon.
- DGB's play here looks like her play in Mind Screw II.
- KScope needs to post more, but Mafia 75 suggests caution in calling him scum for lurking.
- Yeah, where did BSG go, anyways?

!vote UnofficialRulerofEveryone

(Would also vote Phate in a heartbeat - they're about equal right now.)

Also, a side note for future massclaim discussion: I do NOT support massclaim at this time (1 day from LyLo yes, now no). (Experience from modded games says that relying on actions to catch scum is a dice roll at best.)

[Tarhalindur]

First:
!xmafia help watcher
!xmafia help tracker
!xmafia help night watchman
!xmafia help neighborhood watch

Checking bot tracker terminology (if permitted).

(Could head over to the bot to look, but a) I'm not much of an IRC player and b) I'd like these posted in the thread if possible.)

Second:
Unless I'm seriously mistaking something, either UROE is lying or someone else is. Vote stands.

Third:
DGB's play today is NOT DGB-town
Phate is still scum
Tubby is scum from non-UROE scumgroup.

[Tarhalindur]

Armlx, Phate, tubby, Empking's Alt, BSG, Xtoxm: Who do you think is scum, and why?

Rofl - you still sure that Kevy is town?

I need more information of Goofs - half of her posts seem town, the other half are scummy as all hell (especially her last post - Sucks for Us! is pretty reliable).

No vote yet - too many players are at the top of my scumdar (armlx, Phate, and DGB at bare minimum).

[Tarhalindur]

Guys, cop investigations are basically useless in this game. Take nothing from them.

Tar: Won't answer just yet, although i'd like to know why you've been playing like you have. It's like you want to be lynched.

I suggest you keep liking, then, because I have no intention of explaining all of my actions (don't worry, there will come a time where what I'm doing will become blatantly obvious).

I will, however, clear one thing up - if I wanted to be lynched, I would have been lynched yesterday (seriously, it's not hard to do). Now, quit fishing. Seriously, it's not even the first time you've gone on a fishing expedition for my rolebased.

[Tarhalindur]

Tan: How long have you been playing IRC?

Okay, this has gone on long enough. Empking's Alt has posted ONE (1) indicator of who he thinks is scummy in this game, and that only because he was prompted. No independent scumhunting whatsoever? Off topic postings. Why HELLO IIoA!

HoS: Empking's Alt

Why only the FoS? Because an even better candidate has emerged due to an extended meta-read. In other words, I finally found DGB's supertell: berzerking (focusing on a particular player with the intensity of a trained attack dog). Berzerker-DGB is town, passive DGB is scum.

I see no sign in this game of DGB focusing with single-minded intensity on a player. Coming from her, that's a HUGE scumtell.

!vote DrippingGoofball

[Tarhalindur]

dgb made 12 posts of trying to pressure uroe into claiming,

i followed dgb onto the wagon thinkin it was a good idea, i stayed on the wagon because i believe it was a good lynch,

I am a Watcher (Town)

Why include the town part? That goes unsaid.

I checked my own role PM, and since the 'town' in brackets is also there, maybe you should check yours.

i don't like this post either, talk of pm formatting is bad

We still need to lynch URoE.

And why are you so eager to lynch a potential power role?

As for my relationship with UROE, well, if we lynch him, it will be confirmed that I didn't do anything last night except twiddle my thumbs. Saving him, given that I don't know his alignment with certainty, goes against my personal selfish interest. Yet I'm the only one to know that he his result is factually correct. Therefore, I have to believe his claim.

after getting off the wagon stating that she is clear if ureoe is innocent, scum do this

We're looking for a scumteam here, so URoE is the best lynch. He was one of the players that was completely against MC today, but seemed anxious to claim as he reached L-1.

Seemed anxious? He seemed so UN-anxious, I thought he was manufacturing a fakeclaim.

The ONLY reason DGB does not agree with this lynch, and is defending URoE at all, is because she is most likely URoE's scum buddy.

No, it's because his result on me is totally correct. And think of it. We pretty much all have power roles, right? Mine is not the kind that should have been exercized last night, so I did not send in a choice. What are the chance of him making up that I didn't choose a target? If he was making things up, he would have named a target, any target. But no target? Then again, if UROE was planning to make up a player and target combination, I was a very poor choice, because I would have totally blown a gasket, and destroyed him in so doing. He would have been wise to pick a meeker player.

As town, DGB should be fine with URoE's lynch, because it clears her of killing Seraphim.

No, I'm absolutely not fine with his lynch, because I'm not up for lynching a townie, and being cleared townie is useless to me, all it means is that I'll be nightkilled. There is no advantage to being cleared of killing Seraph.

elludes to a power role and then this

1. Stop softclaiming.

C'mon. We pretty much all have roles.

2. You're thinking of "tracker". Watcher only tells you whether or not that player USED an ability or not, not who they actually targetted. Thus, he did not need to know WHO you targetted, only if you even actioned at all. For some reason, you seem to think that because his result on you is correct, that he is town? Do I need to remind you that watcher can be a scum role?

The point is still valid. It's extremely unlikely that I have no ability, it's extremely unlikely that, having it, I didn't use it. And I didn't use it. UROE is not guessing. His claim is not fake. He's town.

Wanna lynch a townie? Help yourself. Are you willing to pay the price for refusing to listen to my very clear and credible argument?

states she has no role

i believ dgb to be scum and needs to be lynched

I'm calling it now - there's a missing kill N1 and N2, there are two scum factions (either Mafia + SK or 2x Mafias), DGB is from one faction and tubby is from the other.

Either order works for me. We'll worry about larger threats when we're closer to endgame.

!vote tubby

[Tarhalindur]

I mupped Tar N0, and I guess it protected him.

Question for players with more experience with IRC: Would MUP be told if the ability failed to resolve (due roleblock or something similar)? I assume no, but I want to double-check. This is a matter of the utmost importance.

(Zwet, if you're lying about your role as town... AGAIN [yes, I've seen him lie about role as town before*]... it's time to spit out the truth.)

* - speaking of that, I just thought of something. Why hasn't DGB made a peep in this game about Zwet's meta of lying as town to stimulate discussion here?

[Tarhalindur]

I'm calling it now - there's a missing kill N1 and N2, there are two scum factions (either Mafia + SK or 2x Mafias), DGB is from one faction and tubby is from the other.

Either order works for me. We'll worry about larger threats when we're closer to endgame.

!vote tubby

Then vote DGB first. No one is really defending tubby, but DGB has some pawns (namely zwetchen and Shadow Knight) trying to defend her until the very end. I'll call it now: DGB is the leader of one of the said factions and has a powerful role (cult leader, GF, something similar). Cult could also explain the single kills per night. It's a stretch, but DGB needs to be lynched regardless. Something is way fishy about the DGB/zwet/SK interactions.

Cult should be dead (unless there's two...). Methinks tubby is SK and DGB is Mafia. Question is, are we better of getting rid of the Mafioso or the SK today?

Eh, Mafia first.

!vote DGB

[Tarhalindur]

I mupped Tar N0, and I guess it protected him.

Question for players with more experience with IRC: Would MUP be told if the ability failed to resolve (due roleblock or something similar)? I assume no, but I want to double-check. This is a matter of the utmost importance.

The MUP would be told that they were blocked if they were blocked. However, if the MUP simply protected or did nothing (which don't give any sort of confirmation like kill and inspect do), there would be no message. Is that what you're asking?

The real question is, would a MUP be told his ability failed if he targeted an untargetable player N0?

[Tarhalindur]

I mupped Tar N0, and I guess it protected him.

Question for players with more experience with IRC: Would MUP be told if the ability failed to resolve (due roleblock or something similar)? I assume no, but I want to double-check. This is a matter of the utmost importance.

The MUP would be told that they were blocked if they were blocked. However, if the MUP simply protected or did nothing (which don't give any sort of confirmation like kill and inspect do), there would be no message. Is that what you're asking?

The real question is, would a MUP be told his ability failed if he targeted an untargetable player N0?

No.

In that case, I'm going to go ahead and call Zwet mostly cleared. He got the right N0 result, too.

Yes, this is a softclaim that I am a role that was untargetable N0 and targetable N1.

[Tarhalindur]

Has is obvtown.

More later.

[Tarhalindur]

My read on DGB and tubby, based on their actions today, is that they are scum from different groups.

If there's only one scum in the two, however, tubby's most recent posting has convinced me that it's him.

Let's force the claim, shall we? We'll need one more vote after mine to do so.

!vote tubby216

[Tarhalindur]

No we don't, we need to run DGB up to claim range now.

!vote DrippingGoofball

[Tarhalindur]

!vote Vir

Or, if we don't want to force a DGB claim, we could run up this guy. IIoA much? (Xtoxm looks pretty town to me right now DESPITE the Sucks for Us!.)

[Tarhalindur]

IIoA?

MafiaWiki is your friend. Didn't I mention this last time?

[Tarhalindur]

Goofball is obvscum, mainly because of her behavior in response to claims and the lack of berzerker-DGB. Can we run her up, please? Do I need to start PBPAing? (I don't quite have enough time to really make PBPAs at the moment, so I'd rather not...)
Empking is likely scum, given how little content he's posted.
Armlx is off - nowhere near as active a scumhunter as usual. We should keep an eye on him.
Xtoxm looks like either a neutral or a bad townie to me at this time.
I have an unreliable town read on Zwet.

[Tarhalindur]

!vote Tar

For refusing to answer the simple question I asked him.

IIoA?

MafiaWiki is your friend. Didn't I mention this last time?

As far as I can tell, you were asking what IIoA means... which is answered in the Wiki link (a Wiki link created in no small part so that I wouldn't have to post a definition of IIoA in every game thread I use the term in) provided in the above Tarhalindur post.

If you're going to attack me for refusing to answer a simple question, you should really first check to make sure that I didn't answer it.

Alternately, if you wanted me to explain exactly how you're guilty of IIoA, I can do so when I have a little more time. That would be tomorrow.

[Tarhalindur]

Armlx is off - nowhere near as active a scumhunter as usual. We should keep an eye on him.

And this being off has nothing to do with the fact I've been gone for at good chunk of the game?

... Wait, were you at GP Chicago? It's the lack of scumhunting early in the game (before I had indication you were V/LA) and in the last week that piqued my interest.

Armlx

Tar is off - nowhere near as active a scumhunter as usual. We should keep an eye on him.

Fixed

And this being off has nothing to do with the fact I've been

gone

up to my ears in papers and projects for

at good chunk of the game

the last couple of weeks?

[Tarhalindur]

!Vote DGB

Tar; Do you have an examplre from anon-ongoing game?

Questioning is a weak town tell at best, shifting to weak scum tell (weakest form of IIoA - the questions only form) if not accompanied by actual analysis.

Also, if not noted earlier, the answer was "no".

I want to see if it counted this time or not...

Can you quote UROE's threats (andf just his threats)

Again, asking for elaboration from another player while providing no independent analysis. Let's see if this becomes a pattern, shall we?

UROE doesn't have a very good role but I believe the claim.

Finally, analysis. A pity it's about whether or not to believe a claim, one of the easiest ways for scum to offer analysis without actually saying anything incriminating.

!vote: Vir

The lack of reasoning here will be ignored due to a later post.

Zwet wasn't claiming due to a bandwagon.

I forget who this post was originally answering, but it's still just summarizing game events. Bad Empking, no biscuit.

Armlx, Phate, tubby, Empking's Alt, BSG, Xtoxm: Who do you think is scum, and why?

Rofl - you still sure that Kevy is town?

I need more information of Goofs - half of her posts seem town, the other half are scummy as all hell (especially her last post - Sucks for Us! is pretty reliable).

No vote yet - too many players are at the top of my scumdar (armlx, Phate, and DGB at bare minimum).

Phate and Vir: Vir for his wish to get a power role lynched. Phate for his out of nowhere hammer.

!vote: Phate

Well, presumably this is the reason for the unexplained Vir vote earlier. It's analysis, at least... which I would find considerably more pro-town if it wasn't

prompted

analysis.

As an aside, I don't like the reasoning here - out of nowhere hammer seems to be a null tell in the current overall meta (last two quickhammers I've seen - one in Mafia 87, one in an ongoing game - were both from bad vanilla townies)*, and Vir's reasoning for wanting to lynch UROE looks pretty solid at first glance. (Also, Empking's phrasing here suggests that he KNEW UROE was town...)

* - I'm not saying that I think Phate is town - I've got a neutral read on him at best, due to IIoA on his part - but I don't think the reasoning here is especially good.

Tan: How long have you been playing IRC?

Why is this relevant, exactly? I've really come to associate such almost-but-not-really-game-relevant posts with scum trying to get away with IIoA (case in point: Vi, Mafia 87)

Tan: How long have you been playing IRC?

Okay, this has gone on long enough. Empking's Alt has posted ONE (1) indicator of who he thinks is scummy in this game, and that only because he was prompted. No independent scumhunting whatsoever? Off topic postings. Why HELLO IIoA!

You're sure about that?

Uh, yeah. Does anybody else see any scumhunting in the posts before this one? Because if there is, I'm missing it.

! Mafia Votes

Xtoxm & Kevy: Do you recognise RTFT?

Let's just quote this response verbatim:

Why is this relevant, exactly? I've really come to associate such almost-but-not-really-game-relevant posts with scum trying to get away with IIoA (case in point: Vi, Mafia 87)

Answer the question first. (I'll take Xtoxm's as a no.)

For reference, the post being responded to:

! Mafia Votes

Xtoxm & Kevy: Do you recognise RTFT?

What about it?

Why the insistence on other people answering questions first? Also, is it just me, or is Kevy's answer an implied yes to the general question?

I mupped Tar N0, and I guess it protected him.

Question for players with more experience with IRC: Would MUP be told if the ability failed to resolve (due roleblock or something similar)? I assume no, but I want to double-check. This is a matter of the utmost importance.

The MUP would be told that they were blocked if they were blocked. However, if the MUP simply protected or did nothing (which don't give any sort of confirmation like kill and inspect do), there would be no message. Is that what you're asking?

The real question is, would a MUP be told his ability failed if he targeted an untargetable player N0?

No.

In that case, I'm going to go ahead and call Zwet mostly cleared. He got the right N0 result, too.

Yes, this is a softclaim that I am a role that was untargetable N0 and targetable N1.

What r9oles can do that?

FISH MOAR HARDER PLOX.

!xmafia help coward

HEY MA, EMPKING CAN FISH!

!vote Tubby - for that last post.

Anything in particular about the post in question that you found scummy?

I endorse the above statement.

PRUFT

For reference, the originally endorsed statement...

[quote="KaleiÃ

[Tarhalindur]

this town really needs to get its act together and lynch dgb already

I like this idea. Especially since I can now tell you the other reason I want her dead here - DGB's play here looks a lot like her play in Mind Screw Mafia 3. Guess what alignment she was in that game?

!vote DrippingGoofball

[Tarhalindur]

Kscope... You have been asked by 3 people now. I think you should start providing us with some answers to the question asked of you.

The question:

Why?

tanarin is far too concerned with whether or not kscope has rolebased knowledge implicating him

*facepalm*

That would explain Scope's play today, wouldn't it?

!vote Tanarin

[Tarhalindur]

Alright, well I guess it's time for me to claim huh...

I am a Super-Saint. When I am lynched, the person who cast the final vote dies as well.

Now that I got my claim out of the way, I think the basis of this wagon is bad. I think I have a right to defend myself, but if I have no idea what post makes him (Kscope) think I am scum, then how am I supposed to do that?

DGB: You accuse me of leading the town, but how many wagons have you led the town on now? I am also still not comfortable on the fact you "Deduced" that animorph was killed by a townie as opposed to scum. Your comment wreaks of either inside information or a sudo claim of the kill. I also find it funny that when you and tubby ask kscope for reasons it isn't considered scummy, but as soon as I ask, I get wagoned. Mind telling me why this is the case?

zwet: Is it just me or have you been pretty much coasting this game since you have claimed? I would like some more analysis from you.

Also, I am pretty sure Kevy and rofl are paired together somehow given the crumb Kev left in Post 73 and the one rofl left now. I'm not gonna go and call them town and cleared, but you can be sure if one flips town then the other sure as hell is town as well. Same for one flipping scum.

@The whole town: One thing I have noticed is that there is a lack of any analysis from just about everyone here. As tubby put it, this has been the game of one liners. I really wouldn't mind sme more active prodding of the inactives.

So, lynching you gains a second lynch if you're telling the truth or a scum lynch if you're not. (Or both, if you're a scum Supersaint.)

So, time to put the Supersaint action plan into place.

Point 1) We lynch the claimed Supersaint today.
Point 2) We fakevote to decide who hammers the Supersaint, effectively granting us a second lynch if he's telling the truth about his ability (and if he's not, we got a scumbag).

Tubby hammer is decent, but I think we can do better.

Fakevote: Empking's Alt

for the hammer - see the PBPA earlier for reasoning.

[Tarhalindur]

!xmafia help twin

[Tarhalindur]

Rereading Tan, be done soon.

[Tarhalindur]

Oh, right, before I sleep:

Tubby, results please.

[Tarhalindur]

Since I've been seeing DGB's wagon analysis in detail lately, and DGB is slightly dead, let's see if I can channel DGB and catch some scum here:

[quote="Xylthixlm"]

||| MAFIABOT || VOTE COUNT (10 to lynch) |||
||| MAFIABOT || KaleiÃ

[Tarhalindur]

Someone L-1 him so we can get the claim.

Bad Xtoxm, no biscuit. 14 alive = force claim at L-2.

Give me a bit to think over the claim. (Players who actually play IRC - does Townie appear in Wacky?)

[Tarhalindur]

Oh, right, let's practice what I preach.

!unvote

There. That should cut back on the stray hammer possibilities. I'll revote - or not - once I'm done thinking

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, we can leave hasdgfas alone for now. See, it's time to put the heat on Vir. In addition to the "2 scum on D1 wagon", I reread him last night, and one thing stuck out to me - he's offered lots of speculation about the setup but little else.

Why hello IIoA (setup speculation variant)! In IIoA I trust.

!vote Vir4030

(Also, my confidence in zwet is waning by the day. Especially given the wagons he's been on.)

[Tarhalindur]

which is why i said confirmed not scum. he's a survivor, he is not mafia.

Better idea: force a claim out of Vir, decide if he's lying, THEN lynch has if we still think he's scum.

[Tarhalindur]

More to the point, I'd like to hear reasons for those votes on me. I was suspicious of Empking even before he voted me for no stated reason, then asked for a claim with no reasoning given.

More interesting is poptajo - is there a reason why I "should have claimed long ago"?

[Tarhalindur]

Actually, question for IRC veterans: Do IRC Mafiosos usually have daytalk?

Yes, it's important.

[Tarhalindur]

More to the point, I'd like to hear reasons for those votes on me. I was suspicious of Empking even before he voted me for no stated reason, then asked for a claim with no reasoning given.

More interesting is poptajo - is there a reason why I "should have claimed long ago"?

yeah, i dont like your play in this game.

That's not enough. Be specific.

1) What parts of my play don't you like?
2) Why should I think that "don't like your play" isn't an attempt to justify "hey, I'm scum and I want Tar dead - I'm going to call him scummy now and fabricate a case later"?
3) Why is "I don't like your play" sufficient to ask for a claim?

[Tarhalindur]

Actually, question for IRC veterans: Do IRC Mafiosos usually have daytalk?

Yes, it's important.

No.

Excellent! That means there's a fair chance that the rest of the Mafia weren't able to interpret and capitalize on Tanarin's attempts to tip them off as to what role I probably have after my Day 2 softclaim.

(Or they weren't paying attention/forgot that I pretty much claimed my role Day 2.)

[Tarhalindur]

For those of you who forgot:

I mupped Tar N0, and I guess it protected him.

Question for players with more experience with IRC: Would MUP be told if the ability failed to resolve (due roleblock or something similar)? I assume no, but I want to double-check. This is a matter of the utmost importance.

The MUP would be told that they were blocked if they were blocked. However, if the MUP simply protected or did nothing (which don't give any sort of confirmation like kill and inspect do), there would be no message. Is that what you're asking?

The real question is, would a MUP be told his ability failed if he targeted an untargetable player N0?

No.

In that case, I'm going to go ahead and call Zwet mostly cleared. He got the right N0 result, too.

Yes, this is a softclaim that I am a role that was untargetable N0 and targetable N1.

1) Do I really need to spell the actual role name out to you?
2) If yes, start piling on some votes, because I'm not claiming until I'm at L-2.

[Tarhalindur]

Yes, Xtoxm, I know Coward can be Mafia. Tanarin was trying to drill that into everyone's head on Day 2.

No, people, I don't think the Shadow Knight lynch is a good idea. He built a pretty good case on tubby (even going so far as to make a good PBPA). That, plus his admitted inexperience with IRC mafia, says to me that he's probably town.

[Tarhalindur]

[quote="KaleiÃ

[Tarhalindur]

I've been running the numbers.

There are 9 players alive. There are 4 players which are mostly confirmed town: myself (MUP town investigation D2)*, KScope (claimed Cop who handed us Tanarin), Kevy (if you haven't figured it out I'm not going to help you), roflcopter (if you haven't figured it out I'm not going to help you). There is 1 confirmed non-town (Xtoxm) - we can leave him alive until LyLo, but I'm a member of the "count Survivors as Mafia in LyLo (since it's in their interest to cast a vote and let the Mafia win)" school of thought, so we should probably lynch him before endgame.

* - the only ways I can be Mafia is if I am Godfather or a redirection ability that does not inform the target he was redirected was involved.

If we can clear 1 more player, we should have an autowin: we should be able to lynch all Mafiosos before they have a chance to kill all confirmeds. The key point is to make sure that we count Xtoxm as Mafia for LyLo calculation (and hence when to lynch Xtoxm), for reasons explained above and previously explained to Xtoxm by myself in full in Mafia 75.

I think it's massclaim time (especially with Kscope, hasdgfas, Xtoxm, and myself claimed, and the roles of Kevy and rofl are blatantly obvious). At bare minimum, I want Empking's Alt, populartajo, and Shadow Knight to claim before the end of the day.

[Tarhalindur]

!xmafia help Warp

[Tarhalindur]

Congratulations, Shadow Knight, you just convinced me you're more likely to be Mafia than hasdgfas.

Mainly because I think the whole "go ahead and lynch me because I'm useless" attitude is a pathetic way to try to seem town. You have not only acknowledged to the town that your role is useless, but also that you aren't contributing to town discussion.

Who said I didn't plan to contribute to town discussion? I'm merely admitting the obvious- that I am vanilla and therefore unconfirmable (mainly because I helped to lynch the gunsmith who ironically, could have cleared me).

Based on a lot of scum vibes I've gotten from you throughout your posts, I'm going with a

!vote Kevy

Invokes "scum vibes" without elaboration, tries to cast doubt on a confirmed player (could be ignorance, could be a scum attempt to "deconfirm" a confirmed player, could even be both).

Explain to me why kevy is town. I don't recall reading anything that says he is.

\

Fish fish fish.

All I read is that kevy could be a Serial Killer, but its not likely because there was a cult. No where does it say that its impossible, but I guess in this, I should defer to the IRC-ers.

*sigh* Fine, I'll

unvote, vote hasdgfas

against my gut, and only because I *know* I'm town and *someone* has to be anti-town left.

BZZT.

Why are you specifically hunting for an SK? There's only been one kill per night, and there's a dead cult leader in the game (I distinctly remember conversation earlier that dead cult leader meant either no Mafia (which is not the case) or no SK).

Oh, right, I know what this could be: Selective Scumhunting. You can't hunt Mafia because you are Mafia, so you try to hunt a (nonexistent) SK instead?

As you wish. If you're too busy to explain why someone who has struck me as scummy is confirmed town, then go ahead and lynch me. But don't bitch afterwards that my lack of content screwed the town.

Fish fish fish

Hammer hammer hammer.

!vote ShadowKnight

(Yes, that last quote is out of order. I couldn't resist following up "fish fish fish" with "hammer hammer hammer". So what?)

[Tarhalindur]

the fact that we then proceeded to not die in the night up until last night helps. he obviously had a firm grasp on what our roles were since day one.

yep it helps.
waiting for a claim, then.

I'm pretty sure I already claimed (I've been effectively outed since D2, as I recall), but I'll do so again: Coward. I used the hide N0 - normally I'd find this suboptimal, but I've been a major N0 kill magnet in the recent past (hence my extreme interest D1 in finding anyone who seemed to think there was a missing kill N0).

I'm going to review the timeline of events for a bit - specifically, I need to take a closer look at the Vir lynch (who could have been bussing him?) and the claim order.

I also need to decide how likely it is that an experienced IRC Mafioso (Vir) set up falseclaims for less experienced buddies in advance.

[Tarhalindur]

what is a coward? hider?
tar i love how you imply i am scum...
or that wasnt your intention?

Coward = 1-shot Hider

As for you, you happen to be on my list of three players who I consider unconfirmed, along with hasdgfas and Empking's Alt. You're NOT my top scum candidate - your behavior towards the Vir wagon is a major point in your favor - but you ARE a candidate (unlike roflcopter, KScope, myself, and to a lesser extent Xtoxm*)

* - we may have to lynch Xtoxm either today or tomorrow, depending on how Survivors are handled at endgame. If we can trust Xtoxm, we have an autowin, so I'd rather not do so unless necessary.

[Tarhalindur]

Also did you breadcrumb?

Well, besides that nice set of "reason to believe" posts you even quoted below, there's this one:

quote="Tarhalindur"]

I still think Kevy is probable scum, but as of now you're an even better candidate than him. Why? Because you're COUNTERCLAIMED, that's why.

!vote roflcopter

let me ask you one very simple question here.

where did i say that i have role based information on you?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I now recognize what you are trying to say. There's only 1 consistent scenario here.

!unvote

The only consistent scenario here is that you've been votehopping like mad on the basis of arbitrary percents of scumminess.

Can we lynch Tarhalindur yet? Really the only thing I get out of him is tons of deflection, then doesn't stick to his own story when he gets roasted. Never in my life have I ever seen a person beat around the bush so much about their "foolproof" reason only to have them CHANGE TARGETS AND THEN UNVOTE.

As it stands right now, with a portion of our town not having posted in a while, I want Tarhalindur lynched because no one else is a worthy candidate. I am not only voting you because I think you are bad town, I am also voting you for playing like scum.

I attacked roflcopter because I thought he claimed role-based information on me. TARGETED role-based information, specifically. If he had, I would be in counterclaim position. Since he's claimed nontargeted role-based, I am not in a position to counterclaim.

I backed off of you because I see role-based information saying that you are innocent that I consider more reliable than my own if you are telling the truth, and the downside (the possibility that you are lying) can be ignored for now because if either you or roflcopter are proven to be lying then the other will be lynched instantly. Keep in mind that this is the only reason I am unvoting.[/quote]

Note the word "targeted" - Coward's hide makes the Coward untargetable for that night.

There's also these:

I mupped Tar N0, and I guess it protected him.

Question for players with more experience with IRC: Would MUP be told if the ability failed to resolve (due roleblock or something similar)? I assume no, but I want to double-check. This is a matter of the utmost importance.

(Zwet, if you're lying about your role as town... AGAIN [yes, I've seen him lie about role as town before*]... it's time to spit out the truth.)

* - speaking of that, I just thought of something. Why hasn't DGB made a peep in this game about Zwet's meta of lying as town to stimulate discussion here?

I mupped Tar N0, and I guess it protected him.

Question for players with more experience with IRC: Would MUP be told if the ability failed to resolve (due roleblock or something similar)? I assume no, but I want to double-check. This is a matter of the utmost importance.

Um, yeah.

The MUP would be told that they were blocked if they were blocked. However, if the MUP simply protected or did nothing (which don't give any sort of confirmation like kill and inspect do), there would be no message. Is that what you're asking?

The real question is, would a MUP be told his ability failed if he targeted an untargetable player N0?

Um, yeah.

I mupped Tar N0, and I guess it protected him.

Question for players with more experience with IRC: Would MUP be told if the ability failed to resolve (due roleblock or something similar)? I assume no, but I want to double-check. This is a matter of the utmost importance.

The MUP would be told that they were blocked if they were blocked. However, if the MUP simply protected or did nothing (which don't give any sort of confirmation like kill and inspect do), there would be no message. Is that what you're asking?

The real question is, would a MUP be told his ability failed if he targeted an untargetable player N0?

No.

In that case, I'm going to go ahead and call Zwet mostly cleared. He got the right N0 result, too.

Yes, this is a softclaim that I am a role that was untargetable N0 and targetable N1.

So, yeah, about those breadcrumbs? Oh yeah, they're all over the place.

And can you explain this?

2) I was trying to be subtle. Since that doesn't seem to be working, let's use the blunt instrument: I have REASON TO BELIEVE that Kevy just let slip that the Mafia kill was not aimed at Seraphim. I am reluctant to explain further at this time.

2) Okay, your claim that "if he had REASON TO BELIEVE that kevy let slip he's mafia then he would not stop voting his caught scum" is just a load of crap. I have reason to believe (read: moderately reliable rolebased information) that Kevy is scum, based on his comments about a possible missing kill and the fact that no known N0 kill magnets died last night, but I am not absolutely sure that he is scum.

I was trying not to reveal that I had rolebased unless I had to (as long as I didn't claim rolebased, there was a decent chance the Mafia might do something stupid again). This became necessary shortly thereafter (both to explain the attack and because the chance that the Mafia would do something stupid decreased), hence why I clarified.

2) Okay, your claim that "if he had REASON TO BELIEVE that kevy let slip he's mafia then he would not stop voting his caught scum" is just a load of crap. I have reason to believe (read: moderately reliable rolebased information) that Kevy is scum, based on his comments about a possible missing kill and the fact that no known N0 kill magnets died last night, but I am not absolutely sure that he is scum. If you claimed rolebased against me (which you DID in your post 62, intentionally or not - note DGB's reaction), then I would KNOW that you are lying and therefore scum. As in, I would be COUNTERCLAIMING you (there is absolutely no way that you could have used an ability on me last night). A 99.9% chance of lynching scum is better than a ~70% chance of lynching scum, thank you very much.

Im having some problems understanding why your claim makes someone 70% confirmed scum.

Also, when did you realize that Tan and Vir were scum?

Yeah, try the answer to that very question that I gave ON DAY ONE:

let me put it to you this way then - i know that you are full of shit when you say your role based information makes kevy 70% likely to be scum

Note: 70% chance to be scum is more like a 70% yield in chemistry than anything

- it means there is a significantly increased chance that the player is scum (definitely strong enough to build a case on, especially early, but not 100% conclusive). That's why I was building a case on Kevy - the rolebased is not absolute proof that he is scum.

I now recognize what you are trying to say. There's only 1 consistent scenario here.

!unvote

(Hope this works.)

[Tarhalindur]

No, people, I don't think the Shadow Knight lynch is a good idea. He built a pretty good case on tubby (even going so far as to make a good PBPA). That, plus his admitted inexperience with IRC mafia, says to me that he's probably town.

This was before tubby was lynched.

Congratulations, Shadow Knight, you just convinced me you're more likely to be Mafia than hasdgfas.

So what changed?
Also, if you check Tar you can see how changing are his opinions during all day. Tar never lurks and he has lurked a big part of this game. Ive been thinking he is scum since D1. Also, there is POE, assuming everyone and Empking is telling the truth (which I do).

Uh, you did read the rest of my post with the REASONS why I changed my mind on Shadow Knight, right?

Congratulations, Shadow Knight, you just convinced me you're more likely to be Mafia than hasdgfas.

Mainly because I think the whole "go ahead and lynch me because I'm useless" attitude is a pathetic way to try to seem town. You have not only acknowledged to the town that your role is useless, but also that you aren't contributing to town discussion.

Who said I didn't plan to contribute to town discussion? I'm merely admitting the obvious- that I am vanilla and therefore unconfirmable (mainly because I helped to lynch the gunsmith who ironically, could have cleared me).

Based on a lot of scum vibes I've gotten from you throughout your posts, I'm going with a

!vote Kevy

Invokes "scum vibes" without elaboration, tries to cast doubt on a confirmed player (could be ignorance, could be a scum attempt to "deconfirm" a confirmed player, could even be both).

Explain to me why kevy is town. I don't recall reading anything that says he is.

\

Fish fish fish.

All I read is that kevy could be a Serial Killer, but its not likely because there was a cult. No where does it say that its impossible, but I guess in this, I should defer to the IRC-ers.

*sigh* Fine, I'll

unvote, vote hasdgfas

against my gut, and only because I *know* I'm town and *someone* has to be anti-town left.

BZZT.

Why are you specifically hunting for an SK? There's only been one kill per night, and there's a dead cult leader in the game (I distinctly remember conversation earlier that dead cult leader meant either no Mafia (which is not the case) or no SK).

Oh, right, I know what this could be: Selective Scumhunting. You can't hunt Mafia because you are Mafia, so you try to hunt a (nonexistent) SK instead?

As you wish. If you're too busy to explain why someone who has struck me as scummy is confirmed town, then go ahead and lynch me. But don't bitch afterwards that my lack of content screwed the town.

Fish fish fish

Hammer hammer hammer.

!vote ShadowKnight

(Yes, that last quote is out of order. I couldn't resist following up "fish fish fish" with "hammer hammer hammer". So what?)

[Tarhalindur]

Quick notes:

- We may need to lynch Xtoxm now, certainly tomorrow if we miss today. If we think 4 Mafia is a credible possibility, it's time to count Xtoxm as scum unless we want to take the chance that he'll stay town.
- Populartajo and hasdgfas have both tried to deconfirm players... poptajo's probably still town despite that, hasdgfas is second on my scumdar.
- Empking remains my preferred lynch. Short posts with little content and unexplained bandwagon votes - pretty much textbook lurkerscum/IIoAscum, and his voting is scummy too.

- AFAICT, Tubby claimed getting roleblocked twice, IIRC (N1, N2). Important post here:

@ tar i was blocked i targeted has dfgas last nite so i got no result

Questions for those with more experience with the bot:

- Can Cop be Mafia in XylBot?
- KScope, who did you target on the days you got blocked?
- Can a role be a secret Twin, or is Twin always known?
- Most importantly, what happens when a player targets a Twin and the other Twin is dead? I think I may be on to something here.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm not sure. Tar and Kale feel dodgy. To me it looks like Emp has to be town as it's the only thing that can explain lack of kills.

Cheerleader says otherwise, AFAICT - the Mafia could just have been extremely unlucky (i.e, Vir randomblocking the D2 Mafia kill).

Experienced IRC players: Can Godfathers also have the Coward ability? If not, I should be pretty much confirmed town - I've been crumbing Coward since D1, zwets's N0 result is consistent with me being a Coward, and zwet got an innocent investigation on me D2.

Poptajo almost has to be scum at this point. Other scum is either Empking or KScope, strongly leaning towards the former.

In other news, Xtoxm is town, not survivor.

HoS: Populartajo (will become a vote when we are ready for day to end, not before)

[Tarhalindur]

Also did you breadcrumb?

Well, besides that nice set of "reason to believe" posts you even quoted below, there's this one:

I still think Kevy is probable scum, but as of now you're an even better candidate than him. Why? Because you're COUNTERCLAIMED, that's why.

!vote roflcopter

let me ask you one very simple question here.

where did i say that i have role based information on you?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I now recognize what you are trying to say. There's only 1 consistent scenario here.

!unvote

The only consistent scenario here is that you've been votehopping like mad on the basis of arbitrary percents of scumminess.

Can we lynch Tarhalindur yet? Really the only thing I get out of him is tons of deflection, then doesn't stick to his own story when he gets roasted. Never in my life have I ever seen a person beat around the bush so much about their "foolproof" reason only to have them CHANGE TARGETS AND THEN UNVOTE.

As it stands right now, with a portion of our town not having posted in a while, I want Tarhalindur lynched because no one else is a worthy candidate. I am not only voting you because I think you are bad town, I am also voting you for playing like scum.

I attacked roflcopter because I thought he claimed role-based information on me. TARGETED role-based information, specifically. If he had, I would be in counterclaim position. Since he's claimed nontargeted role-based, I am not in a position to counterclaim.

I backed off of you because I see role-based information saying that you are innocent that I consider more reliable than my own if you are telling the truth, and the downside (the possibility that you are lying) can be ignored for now because if either you or roflcopter are proven to be lying then the other will be lynched instantly. Keep in mind that this is the only reason I am unvoting.

Note the word "targeted" - Coward's hide makes the Coward untargetable for that night.

There's also these:

I mupped Tar N0, and I guess it protected him.

Question for players with more experience with IRC: Would MUP be told if the ability failed to resolve (due roleblock or something similar)? I assume no, but I want to double-check. This is a matter of the utmost importance.

(Zwet, if you're lying about your role as town... AGAIN [yes, I've seen him lie about role as town before*]... it's time to spit out the truth.)

* - speaking of that, I just thought of something. Why hasn't DGB made a peep in this game about Zwet's meta of lying as town to stimulate discussion here?

I mupped Tar N0, and I guess it protected him.

Question for players with more experience with IRC: Would MUP be told if the ability failed to resolve (due roleblock or something similar)? I assume no, but I want to double-check. This is a matter of the utmost importance.

Um, yeah.

The MUP would be told that they were blocked if they were blocked. However, if the MUP simply protected or did nothing (which don't give any sort of confirmation like kill and inspect do), there would be no message. Is that what you're asking?

The real question is, would a MUP be told his ability failed if he targeted an untargetable player N0?

Um, yeah.

I mupped Tar N0, and I guess it protected him.

Question for players with more experience with IRC: Would MUP be told if the ability failed to resolve (due roleblock or something similar)? I assume no, but I want to double-check. This is a matter of the utmost importance.

The MUP would be told that they were blocked if they were blocked. However, if the MUP simply protected or did nothing (which don't give any sort of confirmation like kill and inspect do), there would be no message. Is that what you're asking?

The real question is, would a MUP be told his ability failed if he targeted an untargetable player N0?

No.

In that case, I'm going to go ahead and call Zwet mostly cleared. He got the right N0 result, too.

Yes, this is a softclaim that I am a role that was untargetable N0 and targetable N1.

So, yeah, about those breadcrumbs? Oh yeah, they're all over the place.

And can you explain this?

2) I was trying to be subtle. Since that doesn't seem to be working, let's use the blunt instrument: I have REASON TO BELIEVE that Kevy just let slip that the Mafia kill was not aimed at Seraphim. I am reluctant to explain further at this time.

2) Okay, your claim that "if he had REASON TO BELIEVE that kevy let slip he's mafia then he would not stop voting his caught scum" is just a load of crap. I have reason to believe (read: moderately reliable rolebased information) that Kevy is scum, based on his comments about a possible missing kill and the fact that no known N0 kill magnets died last night, but I am not absolutely sure that he is scum.

I was trying not to reveal that I had rolebased unless I had to (as long as I didn't claim rolebased, there was a decent chance the Mafia might do something stupid again). This became necessary shortly thereafter (both to explain the attack and because the chance that the Mafia would do something stupid decreased), hence why I clarified.

2) Okay, your claim that "if he had REASON TO BELIEVE that kevy let slip he's mafia then he would not stop voting his caught scum" is just a load of crap. I have reason to believe (read: moderately reliable rolebased information) that Kevy is scum, based on his comments about a possible missing kill and the fact that no known N0 kill magnets died last night, but I am not absolutely sure that he is scum. If you claimed rolebased against me (which you DID in your post 62, intentionally or not - note DGB's reaction), then I would KNOW that you are lying and therefore scum. As in, I would be COUNTERCLAIMING you (there is absolutely no way that you could have used an ability on me last night). A 99.9% chance of lynching scum is better than a ~70% chance of lynching scum, thank you very much.

Im having some problems understanding why your claim makes someone 70% confirmed scum.

Also, when did you realize that Tan and Vir were scum?

Yeah, try the answer to that very question that I gave ON DAY ONE:

let me put it to you this way then - i know that you are full of shit when you say your role based information makes kevy 70% likely to be scum

Note: 70% chance to be scum is more like a 70% yield in chemistry than anything

- it means there is a significantly increased chance that the player is scum (definitely strong enough to build a case on, especially early, but not 100% conclusive). That's why I was building a case on Kevy - the rolebased is not absolute proof that he is scum.

I now recognize what you are trying to say. There's only 1 consistent scenario here.

!unvote

(Hope this works.)

This should be a nice explanation of the breadcrumbing.

Before I cast my vote, I want to be sure of something.

IRC veterans: Can Cop be a Mafia role?

[Tarhalindur]

[quote="KaleiÃ

[Tarhalindur]

I have a pretty defined set of thoughts right now, but I DON'T plan on revealing them just yet.

I intend to start asking a lot of questions when I have time later tonight.

[Tarhalindur]

1: If I wasn't confirmed town before, I am now - I didn't cast a hammer vote.

2: I'll PBPA both of you in the near future (preferably after you've made some salient points about each other that I can analyse). I WILL be looking for a rebuttal from each of you.

3: Observe the bolded text in the FAQ post in the first page.

>xylbot< help basics
-XylBot- First of all, type "!xmafia rules" to see the channel rules. Violating them is cheating. Night talk
-XylBot- in the channel isn't prohibited, but it is mildly discouraged.
-XylBot- -
-XylBot- To start a game, type "!xmafia start" in the channel. If you prefer, you can start a specific setup
-XylBot- such as 'straight' or 'mild' by using "!xmafia start [setup]". To get a list of setups, use
-XylBot- "!xmafia special". Beginners should stick to the first few setups on the list.
-XylBot- -
-XylBot- Once a game has been started, join it by typing "!xmafia in". You have to do this even if you're the
-XylBot- person who started the game. Signups end automatically after a short time. If all interested players
-XylBot- have signed up before the timer expires, you can start the game immediately with "!xmafia go".
-XylBot- -
-XylBot- To submit a night or day action to the bot, type "/msg XylBot [action] [target]". For example, to
-XylBot- inspect Dave, type "/msg XylBot inspect Dave". For more details, type "/msg XylBot help actions".
-XylBot- -
-XylBot- To vote, type "!vote [player]". To clear your vote, type "!unvote". You don't need to unvote before
-XylBot- revoting. For more details, type "/msg XylBot help vote".

>xylbot< help rules
-XylBot- In order for everyone to enjoy the game, please follow these rules during play. Violators may be
-XylBot- modkilled and/or banned.
-XylBot- 1. No private messages to other players unless you are members of the same scum team or mason group,
-XylBot- and then only at night. (In nightless games you may daytalk.)
-XylBot- 2. When you're dead, shut up. Don't say anything relevant to the game, not even "bah, go town".
-XylBot- 3. No quoting your role PM or any action results from the bot. You can paraphrase them if you want.
-XylBot- 4. No impersonating a missing player by /nick unless you are replacing into the game.
-XylBot- 5. Play to win. Deliberately losing ruins the game for the other players, so don't do it. For the same
-XylBot- reason, don't bring in vendettas from outside the current game.
-XylBot- 6. Don't join games you can't complete. If you must leave, say so rather than just vanishing.
-XylBot- 7. No nicktalking.

>xylbot< help actions
-XylBot- To submit a night or day action to the bot, type "/msg XylBot [action] [target]". For example, to
-XylBot- inspect Dave, type "/msg XylBot inspect Dave". The bot will confirm your action with a message. If you
-XylBot- don't recieve any response, check to see if you mistyped "XylBot" or the action. You can get help about
-XylBot- a specific action using "/msg XylBot help [action]".
-XylBot- -
-XylBot- The actions you can use are listed in your role PM, after "Abilities:" or "Group abilities:".

If you
-XylBot- have more than one action listed, you can only use one each night.

When you have a night action you
-XylBot- don't want to use, type "/msg XylBot none" so that the bot knows not to wait for you. If you're
-XylBot- mafia, only one member of the mafia can use the mafiakill action, so discuss who will make the kill
-XylBot- with your teammates.
-XylBot- -
-XylBot- Actions that start with "(day)" are day actions; leave off the "(day)" when you submit them. Actions
-XylBot- that start with "(x)" can be used during either day or night. A few roles have actions marked "(auto)",
-XylBot- which means you will use them automatically every night. They don't count as your action for the night.

>xylbot< help vote
-XylBot- vote [player1] [player2] ...: Votes to lynch a player during a game of mafia. You don't need to unvote
-XylBot- before revoting. Lynch happens immediately as soon as any player reaches the required votes to lynch.
-XylBot- You can also vote to end the day without lynching with "!vote no lynch". No lynch happens when enough
-XylBot- players are voting no lynch so that the remaining players don't have the votes to carry out a lynch.
-XylBot- If you have multiple votes, list all of them in the same line. You can vote for the same player multiple
-XylBot- times or for several different players. You can see the current votes at any time by typing
-XylBot- "!xmafia votes".

KScope, you need to explain the bolded section. NOW.

4: Empking, please make a case on KScope. Doesn't need to be a full case, just the things that you think make him more likely to be scum than you. (If you're town, you now KNOW he has to be scum, so act accordingly.)

5) KScope, please make a case on Empking. Doesn't need to be a full case, just the things that you think make him more likely to be scum than you. (If you're town, you now KNOW he has to be scum, so act accordingly.)

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, let's make this clear first. I'm confirmed, and it's endgame - THE time of game where I am at my best. This is MY time now. And I've been looking things over. I think I've got a good handle on the situation, but I'm still double-checking things, and until I'm done double-checking I think I'll hold my cards close to the chest.

Another question for both of you:

In the hypothetical situation that you were the last Mafioso and choosing which player to kill last night (N7), who would you have killed, and why?

[Tarhalindur]

*is not saying anything until Empking answers*

[Tarhalindur]

VERY interesting.

The reason I asked is because I was actually quite surprised to find myself alive today. I've been assuming Empking is scum for some time, and Empking NEEDED to kill me last night if he was scum.

KScope admits the correct reasoning why he would probably kill Xtoxm last night if he were scum - because given Xtoxm's play at end of yesterday it would be his only chance at winning the game. There's a second reason he doesn't mention, however - I've been suspicious of Empking since very early in the game, even going so far as to PBPA him at least once. The logical implication to Scope-scum is that I would likely hammer Empking for the scum win, and quickly.

Empking, by way of contrast, recognizes the correct play but does NOT appear to recognize either of the two reasons why it would be somewhat better play to kill me - namely, I've been suspicious of him since very early while Xtoxm was clearly very suspicious of KScope (it's pretty much the EXACT inverse of Xtoxm's situation). If Empking is scum, why not take the easy road and kill me for the scum win?

HOWEVER, Empking doesn't seem to recognize this reasoning. More to the point, I don't like his reasoning here at all... kill me as I'm the better player? What exactly gives you the idea that I'm a better player than Xtoxm, Empking? We're not exactly in an autowin position here due to outstanding doubts on KScope's claim, and have proven over time to be a rather bad scumhunter when I can't get a read with setup analysis.

[Tarhalindur]

Point 1: There is a plausible scenario in which KScope can be scum (if Empking is Mafia Roleblocker that can kill and block at the same time and killed Armlx N4, everything falls into place)
Point 2: Empking has been in IIoA mode the entire game. IIoA happens to be the one Standard Tell I find reliable (case in point: Vir4030 in this very game).
Point 3: Looking over Empking's past games, his play here is VERY similar to Empking's Alt games where he's scum and somewhat divergent from Empking's Alt games where he's town (VERY divergent from Empking games where he's town, but he's more verbose as Empking even when he's scum).
Point 4: Empking voted for Vir for a LOT of the game but never followed up until other players put Vir4030 under heavy pressure - MAJOR distancing tell.
Point 5: For KScope to be scum would require one hell of a bus D2 from a player who I haven't seen heavy bussing from in my rereads.

Sorry Empking, but your play (which is strongly against you) outweighs the game state (which is somewhat in your favor).

!vote Empking's Alt

KScope, regardless of your alignment, congratulations. I just hope I'm sharing in the victory celebrations.

[Tarhalindur]

Fudge it.

Note to self: Always go for the more probable setup.

Good game, KScope. Nice D2 bus, I must say.