Mini Normal 2310 | Day 7

[davesaz]

Hi Klazam, didn't know you also play mafia.

I'll use +1 this time and VOTE: BlackStar.

Having been away a year or two I don't know if focusing on the presence/lack of things in the mod's posts is currently normal in a normal.

[davesaz]

most likely klazam is either town or paired with abnegation

Suspicious post. I think it's too early for that

You've said a couple things are suspicious. What will be your threshold for a vote?

[davesaz]

Happy to see the pace isn't too bad.
Not as happy to see a low s/n ratio.
VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

[davesaz]

signal to noise

[davesaz]

Happy to see the pace isn't too bad.
Not as happy to see a low s/n ratio.
VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

Anyone ever read games they wrote ten years ago?
Was everyone cringe or just me?

i wasn't here ten years ago but my old games do make me cringe lol.

VOTE: scorpius

What’s the reasoning for these votes?

I like this question.

For the former, I'm seeing lots of posts but the amount of probative content is low compared to the volume of posts. It indicates a possible motivation of looking busy, and the vote is to test the reaction to being called out.

I'm as stumped as you are on the latter. How does cringe relate to alignment?

[davesaz]

What would you suggest using to generate reads, if not votes and talk about votes or the lack thereof?

[davesaz]

What would you suggest using to generate reads, if not votes and talk about votes or the lack thereof?

Making a big deal out of not voting someone is not productive especially this early, especially when people are giving reasons regardless. A vote at this point is usually for show.

I appreciate your opinion, especially given you're one of the targets of that criticism, but was asking cCS.

[davesaz]

I think it's relevant in the sense that the vote isn't being used elsewhere, perhaps to push someone. In this context there isn't much difference between ignoring you've been voted vs. self voting as a reaction. But it is different from saying things about those who agree/disagree/ignore the reasons for the votes.

[davesaz]

I can think of at least three ways for Flavor Leaf to be this way, one each town, scum, and NAI. The town and NAI ones shouldn't be discussed and can't be discussed respectively.
Reserved FL isn't something I see too often, though as I mentioned before it's been quite a while. If I had to guess I'd say it's the NAI version.

Hu and Klaz feel like they're solving, and townleans. If I had to pick one of them to be a scumlean it would be Hu but that's primarily driven by a feeling that voting is the main way of generating conflict to get reads from, which makes me biased against not voting.

I don't see the purpose for Abnegation to still be self voting. It's still the first 1/4 of day so being on the sidelines isn't urgent yet, but it isn't doing anything to advance the game and that's troubling.

[davesaz]

Leek is pretty devoid of content, how did you manage to get double digit posts and hardly say anything?

[davesaz]

Kitty also isn't saying much. Hope you can engage after getting some rest.

[davesaz]

So your analysis is that FL posting is either Town, scum or NAI? Groundbreaking.. this post feels like filler.

That's a surface level interpretation. Saying "it could be one of these things" and then clearly choosing one of them is hardly filler.

[davesaz]

dont see a reason we should go leaf over klazam if youre that willing to wagon a townie

Many times I've seen people scream scumslip after a post like this, maybe that trend has ended. I do see it's called out in less dramatic fashion a few times.

[davesaz]

Yeah, dislike the camel slot having read back.
Desperate to vote anyone

You can act on that desperation, it's just a simple tag.

[davesaz]

OK why even mention the the town possibility shouldn't be discussed, it just brings attention to <redacted>.

I'm a programmer which means I enumerate things for a living. The thought happens, and it ends up on "paper".

[davesaz]

Yeah, dislike the camel slot having read back.
Desperate to vote anyone

You can act on that desperation, it's just a simple tag.

Seeing some of the other responses to the quoted, I see that it probably meant you thought camel was desperate to vote anyone?

[davesaz]

OK why even mention the the town possibility shouldn't be discussed, it just brings attention to <redacted>.

I'm a programmer which means I enumerate things for a living. The thought happens, and it ends up on "paper".

are you frontend or backend though

As backend as it gets, inside the OS.

[davesaz]

decent d1 lims at this point:
KittyTacky
geraintm
Nono

regarding this list

does any name here strike you personally as "that'd be a bad lim" or "hell no, I won't put a vote there d1"?

Are you saying you'd prefer from this list? If so, why?

[davesaz]

something does seem off with this post now that you mention it. the "if i had to pick one of my townleans to be a scumlean" phrasing is a bit weird. i know i've thought, "if i'm wrong on one of my townreads it's X," and, "i'm least confident in X being town," but this reads differently from that. the trying to make a townlean into a scumlean feels artificial.

I don't see what's the difference in these different ways to say the same thing. They all boil down to "I think x but if I'm wrong then it's Y". Maybe it's the engineer/programmer thing?

[davesaz]

decent d1 lims at this point:
KittyTacky
geraintm
Nono

regarding this list

does any name here strike you personally as "that'd be a bad lim" or "hell no, I won't put a vote there d1"?

Out of these options, KittyTacky seems like the worst choice so far.

I agree somewhat with your choice, but would like to hear what you're thinking to see more about the motivation for the choice.

[davesaz]

Gut ping on the Abnegation unvote right after Leek mentioned a possible Drew/Leaf pairing because I earlier mentioned a possible Abneg/Drew pairing

I get that you'd notice Leek's post given it's about you, but where does the leap from that to pairings come from? I took Abnegation's comment to be about Leek's general presence.

[davesaz]

I like Nono's new posts.
KittyTacky said some things that resonated, in particular about how it's a fallacy that only scum care how they look. Not enough for a real townread, will need to see some evidence of trying to sort.
Geraintm took a poke or two but didn't really follow up that I can tell. I'd be willing to go there.

I'm not sure about Leek's motivation in asking about the list in the first place. It seems kinda weak to go after unproductive people. Not enough for a scumread, but definitely worth watching.

[davesaz]

Doctor Drew
Nono
camelCasedSnivy

I think are the wolves.

That's a spicy list. Drew I could easily see, but cCS and Nono have been starting to redeem themselves. The game needs some fireworks though so by all means please elaborate.
pedit: nice, things are waking up a bit, 2nd post in a row I've had pop up with new activity

[davesaz]

There isn't anything good in Nono's posts so far. There's no reasoning behind their Hu push (that I can follow at least). But really it's just the eyes glazing over bit that pinged me because I found the game really easy to read and get into upon coming in, and I'm a

super

slow reader.

Eh, maybe my bar's just set too low after seeing nothing before that.

[davesaz]

Suspicious post. I think its too early for that.

which one?

[davesaz]

I like Nono's new posts.
KittyTacky said some things that resonated, in particular about how it's a fallacy that only scum care how they look. Not enough for a real townread, will need to see some evidence of trying to sort.
Geraintm took a poke or two but didn't really follow up that I can tell. I'd be willing to go there.

I'm not sure about Leek's motivation in asking about the list in the first place. It seems kinda weak to go after unproductive people. Not enough for a scumread, but definitely worth watching.

Nono's posts have just been saying that I'm scum. If you agree wouldn't you be saying I was scum? Don't think I've seen you say that

Like and agree are different things to me. And as I say a few posts later, it was in comparison to what the slot had done before that so maybe premature to even say I like it lol

[davesaz]

flavor leaf is playing different i noticed that much

feel like scum flavor leaf would stick to how he usually plays

The only pattern I've seen in how Flavor Leaf plays is flamboyantly.

[davesaz]

with scumreads

I'd rather call them good d1 lims

This constant "good d1 lims" thing, coupled with not actually pushing the mentioned players, has been bugging me. I feel like it's trying to talk the town into taking an easy route without showing up as responsible for the work.

VOTE: SzmarzLeek

[davesaz]

parse error, stack overflow

[davesaz]

Long day at work. Looks like it got exciting in the meantime. I don't see Kitty's explanation as plausible at all on the surface. If it weren't a done deal the right thing to do would be to check if there were any d1 crumbs to back up the claimed target, but it's moot now.

[davesaz]

Easy enough to check though -- yeah I don't see someone using a doc on a low null who wasn't a general TR and had only been mentioned in a read list.

[davesaz]

VOTE: Nono

[davesaz]

As it sits now, scum have to guess who the doc is (presuming there wasn't a different reason for no-kill) and try to kill there or risk another no-kill, leaving two investigatives free to act. I don't think mass claim is the right move here.

[davesaz]

Oh great, I thought I had voted way at the beginning of the day. Good thing I thought to ISO myself before complaining. I guess I didn't notice that it didn't submit.
That was a very gutsy play, wish Nono had done a better job of arguing the 1v1.

I'm a VT.
Intent to vote Hu Tao. Don't want to go E-1 and give a self-hammer opportunity. LMK when you're ready.

[davesaz]

It took me a couple times reading that to see why Abnegation should be ruled out by mech unless it's that specific role.

Drew or Klaz I think. I think I've only played Minecraft with Klaz, don't know if claiming miller as 3rd scum just to do something that "scum him shouldn't do" is within his range.
I know that FL is capable of doing exactly that list of things as scum, especially in a game where there isn't another overwhelming town presence. But it doesn't feel that way. Doing it is one thing, saying he's done it is another.

[davesaz]

Accepting Abnegation and geraintm as being as close to conf as anything is without a flip, and knowing I'm town, and thinking Flavor is pretty towny, leaves Drew or Klazam.
Gonna have to check to see if the miller claim was before Nono was eliminated. Scum!Klaz would have no need to claim after Nono's demise.
Like I said before, I think it's just Drew. I usually start getting it wrong if I try to find reasons to doubt myself. There hasn't been any reason to hurry, better to let my TRs reach their own conclusions.

[davesaz]

Miller claim was before the flip, but in the same post as voting for Nono.
Hmm, have I already posted on this? Scum!Klaz would know of course, might be a way to hedge not getting checked if we caught on to Hu Tao after that point.
There has to be a RB so there wasn't any need to avoid being investigated. What's the need for claiming...

Town!Klaz on the other hand doesn't know who the real cop is, and would want to ensure an investigation isn't wasted if somehow the cop lives.
That boils down to it's probably just town playing according to the "book".

Drew > Klaz > Flavor
VOTE: Drew

[davesaz]

Yeah, not unexpected and it certainly isn't any easier. FMPOV it's also 3 contenders though one of them is just the nagging "you never know until the flip" type.

I don't think NK choice can rule out Klazam, as I was openly somewhat suspicious of him too.
In the interest of getting this right, is Geraint being multitasking loud visitor a possibility? A n1 "guilty" and a cop gambit to try to carry it to a win be pretty audacious, but perhaps still possible.
FL making it to mlo/elo is always alarming but I'd regret that the least as if he's scum it's been masterful day play.

[davesaz]

Oh, I must have missed the no result post from nono.

[davesaz]

I'm also fine with fast night.

[davesaz]

So this isn't any easier, not that I expected it to be.
On one hand, a miller is plausible in a game with a cop, but waiting to claim it isn't the way I'm used to seeing it played.
On the other hand, having Flavor survive to endgame is a big red flag, and he was very aware of the night action results.
I have to get this right to win, or be responsible for losing. That's not a very comfortable place to be and I don't think I have a good track record in this situation.
One thing I can say, I've had scum talk me out of voting them on multiple occasions. For me, a long conversation probably makes the odds of choosing right worse.

VOTE: Flavor

[davesaz]

I typed up my last post thinking I'd need to check in before anything would move, then Klaz's vote comes up on pedit.

With a N1 track result and N2 cop we thought we were sunk. Hu Tao correctly guessing what Nono's post meant and going full turbo from the start of D3 was a huge game changer.