Radical Rat's Mini Normal Review, June 2023 (Released)

[Isis]

I don't think two millers is a good idea

[Isis]

The problem is that when the apparent EV on outguessing the mod becomes considerably better than the EV on ascertaining the identity of the mafia through social deduction people are going to try to outguess the mod.
A lot of these discussions have a tendency to focus on how resilient the mod actually is to being genuinely outguessed but not how hard ascertaining the identity of the mafia through social deduction is. The latter is actually very hard, and it's also variable and difficult to control how hard it is, some Day 1s create strong leads and some don't, Day 4s are more likely to have some momentum and that can mediate modwifom for massclaim roles more than d1 claim roles. In particular many people don't think it's acceptable to do any game play before claiming miller so this setup spec is going to be competing with a low-information-phase that hasn't even germinated yet.

[Isis]

The EV thing is exacerbated by how mislimming a miller guarantees you don't mislim a PR or expose a PR claim, in a setup that has a cop.

[Isis]

Do you think it would work better having a third Miller so that it at least guarantees it's at least not a 1v1 if Mafia doesn't try to claim Miller?

I feel like this could work, and millers are enough like named townies you could maybe even go 4? You end up getting 13p divide and conquer with a copimmune group right?

[Isis]

If I play the setup in OP I expect mafia to not actually claim miller, both millers to trueclaim, townies to speculate the first miller claim is scum with a role like "cop-finder" that went for an instant win at the risk of miller being present in the setup, mislim.
With 3 or 4 miller claims I'd expect players to assume a setup was designed with a subtheme of having a large number of millers, and for mafia to even feel comfortable joining in maybe

Pedit: good idea
High information scum is a pretty good new fad, have only seen it improve games afaict

[Isis]

I uh, didn't notice that.

I think single investigative 3:8s don't work out even if Sherlock Holmes himself rands cop.

[Isis]

Because of the experimental nature of the setup I want to make Datisi's public info suggestion obligatory. Or something in that range.

Let me offer this, pretty close to #20:

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Informed ("There are exactly four millers in this setup.")
1 Mafia Miller Enabler
4 VTs
4 Town Miller
1 Town Cop
1 Town Backup Cop

I think this should pan out ok. Town gets information from a divide and conquer aspect of the setup, cop and backup cop are mostly self clearing claims, and town has a cop all the way through. All of that sounds almost like a strong town, but then mafia gets a player immune to investigation. Mechanically it's optimal for the player who randed miller enabler to be the one to join in on the miller claims since that player cannot be investigated after the miller abilities turn off.

[Isis]

The final part of the process is posting role PMs for review and investigation result messages for review in the review PT

Since you'll probably also want those in your mod PT that results in a little duplication

[Isis]

I'm definitely more concerned it's too strong for town rather than too strong for scum, but rr if youre happy with it as it is we don't have to bikeshed it. There should be a scum path to win in in there.

[Isis]

My thought was lazy but 1shot might be better

[Isis]

PMs look oj

[Isis]

Y