Mini 703 - A Roccisi Autumn - Over

[MacavityLock]

Vote: Rage

. Rage is a dangerous emotion.

[MacavityLock]

Yeah, Puta, you're going to have to explain those two posts. Like every word of them except maybe for "Vote."

Unvote Rage

. One of the best first posts I've seen. A+++. Would buy again.

Vote: Wombat

Ecto: Do you really want a massclaim, or are you looking for reactions? Because my reaction is NO!

[MacavityLock]

And... I'm back with an

unvote, vote: Rage

. You did take Wombat way out of context, and pretty unfairly. And you asked for a role claim on page 1.

Wombat, generally people here don't like to No lynch day 1, especially since we don't know what kind of roles are out there, so no guilty reports might be forthcoming. Long days plus lynches are the norm.

[MacavityLock]

Rage, you brought Wombat to L-4 on the first page. I don't have too much of a problem with that. But asking for a role-claim, given that usually they're asked for at L-1 (or maybe L-2), given that Wombat is new to MS, and given that a page 1 bandwagon usually still includes random votes, adds up to you role-fishing.

[MacavityLock]

Macavity, what do you have against role-fishing so early in the day? Also, why are you so forgiving to Brain of Wombat's role-fishing (asking for a cop claim), yet so quick to switch to me?

I think Wombat's first post is certainly something to keep in mind, but it definitely felt like more of a newbie move (who's got info for us so that we can be lazy today?). Role-fishing early is bad because it gives scum better targets. You've been here longer than I have, do I really need to tell you that?

One more thing, MacavityLock. According to Tarballs, he has brought me to L-3 on page two. How is that much different?

He didn't ask for a claim from you on his L-3 vote.

[MacavityLock]

I've watched a couple of games, but this is my first time playing and I didn't properly think through my first post. I'll hopefully get better as this thing goes along.

I don't want to condemn Rage for his reaction, he could have the towns best interests at heart. You were talking about me being scum, or a mason, or a scum neighbour (?) or whatever. Quite simply, I have no interaction or connection with any other players. I'm just an average townie, that's it.

Remember this, don't claim until asked to. That includes dropping hints like you just did. All it does is give scum more information to work with. Town, on the other hand, rarely benefits from it.

I'm not making a full on claim yet, but when you're on the receiving end of fairly intense pressure like I'm getting from Rage, it feels necessary to say something in my defence.

Is "I'm just an average townie" not a full on claim?

[MacavityLock]

Is "I'm just an average townie" not a full on claim?

Do you prefer nets, spears or hooks when you go fishing?

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I'm not asking for a claim. I don't think claiming is a good idea. I'm pointing out to Wombat his self-contradictory statements.

Now re-reading, I can how it would come off as fishing. Wombat, don't answer my question.

[MacavityLock]

BACKTRACK ALERT

MAN YOUR STATIONS

THIS IS NOT A DRILL

You think I don't realize that? I'll own up to it. I just ask that you think about both what a scum would do in that situation and what a townie would do.

Basically, I'll accept the scumminess point about my question to Wombat. But not about the backtrack.

[MacavityLock]

(btw is that from cats?).

QFT. I'm a fan of TS Eliot's poems (not so much the musical).

I can understand if he was not so much asking for clarification on brain's "claim", but basically looking at the words he said, namely:

I'm just an average townie, that's it.

and then

I'm not making a full on claim yet

and thinking "how can that not be a full claim?"
I agree that brain deserved to be called out on that.

QFT.

[MacavityLock]

Having re-read the last few pages, I don't particularly like some people's jumping on the Puta wagon. Tarballs's vote seemed like yet another case of a guy trying to reserve a good spot on a wagon. He's now done it twice, the L-3 vote on both Rage and Puta.

I

really

don't like darkdude's:

Not much happened yet?

Unvote: tubby216
Vote: Puta Puta

Reasons are helpful maybe?

As for Puta himself, clean slate in my mind. Now just start doing some useful scumhunting.

[MacavityLock]

Having re-read the last few pages, I don't particularly like some people's jumping on the Puta wagon. Tarballs's vote seemed like yet another case of a guy trying to reserve a good spot on a wagon. He's now done it twice, the L-3 vote on both Rage and Puta.

I

really

don't like darkdude's:

Not much happened yet?

Unvote: tubby216
Vote: Puta Puta

Reasons are helpful maybe?

As for Puta himself, clean slate in my mind. Now just start doing some useful scumhunting.

Read post 126. Do you see what a good 'ol L-2 will do for someone's posting habits?
On Tarball, do you think he L-3 votes were natural, or forced? Can you explain whichever choice you make?

Ecto, I'm not saying everyone on that wagon is suspect. Just a couple people. Given that you're not on any wagon, I'm also wondering why you're defending people without letting them answer on their own.

As for Tarballs, there is now a pattern of joining big wagons at opportune times. I don't know if that's deliberate, or it just happened that way. He hasn't posted enough for me to make a full judgment. The only time his one big/useful post mentioned Puta was about him being scummy for the "killing a cat" comment, which I took to be at best a joke on Tarballs' part. It feels like EasyWagoning at the moment.

Reasons are helpful maybe?

I thought it was clear that I disapproved of the way he's been posting.

Given your posts surrounding the vote, not really. I see you calling an OMGUS on him, and that's about it.

[MacavityLock]

Defending? It's called educating. You showed a lack of understanding regarding pressure votes being used to change the behavior of a player. Case, point, and example laid out for you right here in this game.
In any case, assume you could interpret my post as defending someone, what relevance would my lack of a presence on a wagon have to do with that defense?

I have no problem with pressure votes. I understand them and don't need someone to explain them to me. I felt that two of the five votes currently on the wagon were made strangely, and I pointed that out. I'm still wondering why you tried to answer the questions I had for those players yourself.

Now a couple questions of you. If you are so sold on Tarball, why is your vote still on Rage, who is one of the recipients of Tarball's votes that you are using to make your case? Is that a sloppy bus? If not, isn't your case on Tarball dependent upon Rage being town?

I'm... not sold on Tarballs.

He hasn't posted enough for me to make a full judgment.

I do agree that my case on Tarballs probably falls down if Rage isn't town. Aren't I allowed to think that two generally opposing players are scummy in their own way?

Also of interest...why would you give Puta a clean slate? What comment would have inspired you to make that statement?

Because if he posted to the wrong thread, he posted to the wrong thread. I see no reason to hold poems and comments of a dark nature against a player. Now, if he remains as useless as he was being earlier, then I have no problem with a Puta-wagon.

Summary: I see you mudslinging with seemingly contradictory premises. Your vote is sticking to Rage while you probe reactions to your statements about 2 other players.

It's day 1. We have no guarantees of any alignments. No one is tied together yet. I don't think the Puta-wagon is a good one. I see nothing contradicting about questioning and suspecting players who seem to be on the opposite side of an argument.

Then, on the flip side, you give a "clean slate" to a player at L-2, whose alignment just might get revealed today.

I completely don't understand your point here. Any day 1 lynch will have his/her alignment revealed. Puta isn't special in this regard. Please explain what you mean here.

[MacavityLock]

BTW I really don't like how Ecto has just jumped wagon and put Puta at L-1, at least not for those reasons. I don't see how Puta being anti-town is a definite scumtell.

Agreed. Also, Ecto didn't answer my concerns from my previous post. Pretty much none of what he said in the attack on me made sense, and I'd like some explanations.

[MacavityLock]

I'm still waiting on Ecto's responses to me.

Puta, your next post needs to explain why you showed up here with another Shakespeare quote. If you can't explain it and/or if he has in fact violated site rules, then I would absolutely be for either a modkill or a forced replacement. I'd much prefer to not have to go with a policy lynch.

[MacavityLock]

Straight forward for you McCavity, you were slinging mud at two players, and the one mud ball would invalidate the other

You're mischaracterizing my attacks as mudslinging. In separate instances, I had been questioning actions from both Tarballs and Rage. As of right now, I like Tarballs' answers much more than Rages'.

then as a player is nearing lynch, you back off and give them a clean slate so as to avoid any cupability if they turn up town.

I was expressing my displeasure with the Puta wagon. I had not been on it to that point, and wanted people to see the side that I was seeing: He made a mistake, not necessarily a scummy action in of itself, and I was worried we were going to lynch poorly because of it. Here when I say lynch poorly, I mean lynching for reasons having little to do with scumminess.

Speaking of which, I agree with chuckrock on his recent response to Puta. Puta, you don't have a PR. Be clear and complete with us or we (at least I) will regard it as scummy.

Your last statement goes along with this idea. "I'd much prefer to not have to go with a policy lynch. " ....but you will right?

I am generally against policy lynches. So, I guess in answer to your question, no. Give me a reason to lynch based on scumminess.

[MacavityLock]

Explain the difference between asking for a modkill and a policy lynch for me McCavity?

With a policy lynch, we're guaranteed to waste a day, and it's all "part of the game." With a modkill, I don't know if we'll waste a day, and it would probably be punishment for breaking site rules, i.e. "outside the game."

[MacavityLock]

The end result is the same, a player is removed. That's far different than getting a replacement. Yet I noted you put getting a replacement right in with 2 ways of removing a player.
The difference is, for a policy lynch, it will take a majority of players. We are responsible for the choice we make.
But by appealing to the mod for a modkill, you are asking for the same result, but responsibility for it assigned to the higher authority here, the mod.

The end result is not the same. And not only that, I'm most interested in the "outside of game" aspect. If we're talking about whether he violated site rules, he should somehow be removed from this game

affecting this game as little as possible

. Both modkill and forced replacement are "outside of game" type consequences. By the way, I'd much prefer forced replacement to a modkill.

I also think that this is not good scum-hunting discussion. If he violated site rules, he should be removed via whatever means the site has set up.

[MacavityLock]

Suppose the mod says neither a replacement, nor a modkill is coming. What do you do next?

Then like I said, I treat Puta like I would any other player. If he's not providing real, clear arguments, I'm fine with a Puta-wagon. I already said this. This is why I requested an immediate and complete explanation from Puta when he reverted to Shakespearing.

(P.S. - Modkill and Policy lynch both end result in dead player. How can you even think to argue that point?)

Does modkill end the day like policy lynch does?

[MacavityLock]

Can't respond to everything right now, due to time constraints, but UI did want to respond to this:

Rage, you brought Wombat to L-4 on the first page. I don't have too much of a problem with that. But asking for a role-claim, given that usually they're asked for at L-1 (or maybe L-2), given that Wombat is new to MS, and given that a page 1 bandwagon usually still includes random votes, adds up to you role-fishing.

Why is it that MacavityLock didn't raise this point until I did?

I brought this up before you did. Check posts 27 & 28 please.

[MacavityLock]

OK, to complete my post about this:

Yeah, Puta, you're going to have to explain those two posts. Like every word of them except maybe for "Vote."

Unvote Rage

. One of the best first posts I've seen. A+++. Would buy again.

Vote: Wombat

Ecto: Do you really want a massclaim, or are you looking for reactions? Because my reaction is NO!

Damn what a scummy post. First, clear buddying up to Rage, and then ruining Ecto's bait. Almost like saying "hey scumbuddies, don't fall for

that

trap".

Two things here: First the supposed buddying - It was early, I was having some fun. I'm not sure how to defend against the concept of "buddying," since my point at the time was that I agreed with his comments about Wombat. Also, while this is completely WIFOM, what would scum-me have to gain by buddying up to someone and then subsequently voting him in my next post?

As for Ecto's massclaim stuff - Is it a townie's job to specifically ignore his bait? Sorry, I'll remember that for next time.

[People who attacked Rage for the "out of context" comment even though the intended use was of a different meaning:

darkdude (first one to raise the point)
MacavityLock (why am I not surprised? opportunistic wagon hopping. plus his reasoning's way off, it's clear he was skimming and only read darkdude's accusation)

"Out of context" was not my main reason for the vote. Re-read my post 27. I voted because it was an unfair attack, and because he requested a claim on page 1.

Rage, you brought Wombat to L-4 on the first page. I don't have too much of a problem with that. But asking for a role-claim, given that usually they're asked for at L-1 (or maybe L-2), given that Wombat is new to MS, and given that a page 1 bandwagon usually still includes random votes, adds up to you role-fishing.

Why is it that MacavityLock didn't raise this point until I did?

For those too lazy to look up the sequence of events:

And you asked for a role claim on page 1.

I may venture as far as stating that his call for a roleclaim was a bigger fish than Wombat's call for massclaim.

Rage, you brought Wombat to L-4 on the first page. I don't have too much of a problem with that. But asking for a role-claim, given that usually they're asked for at L-1 (or maybe L-2), given that Wombat is new to MS, and given that a page 1 bandwagon usually still includes random votes, adds up to you role-fishing.

As for new stuff:

Just that one makes players commit to a position, the other is a plea to authority to do it for you.

My position is as follows - I don't think Puta is a good lynch at this point. However, he needs to start actually defending himself and actually scum-hunting. He is also at L-1, so it might be a good time for him to claim.

[MacavityLock]

My role is in my posts #21, 24 and 26. I give you until 4 hours later to find out what my role is. Otherwise, I will self-hammer. Make you choice town, let Puta live or let Puta die.

That's not a pro-town answer. Have fun self-hammering.

[MacavityLock]

My role is in my posts #21, 24 and 26. I give you until 4 hours later to find out what my role is. Otherwise, I will self-hammer. Make you choice town, let Puta live or let Puta die.

That's not a pro-town answer. Have fun self-hammering.

Outting a pro-town role is not pro-town.

Outting yourself as a pro-town role when you're at L-1 is really your only choice. This is your opportunity to convince us not to get rid of you.

[MacavityLock]

I was only following this game intermittently once I was dead, but you have no idea how aggravating it was to see pages of discussion on the guns that I never made. (After a bit more mafia under my belt, it's possible that I should have produced guns, probably over N1. Problem was I didn't like anybody as particularly townie at that point.)

Anyway, go town! I'm glad I could contribute.

[MacavityLock]

Come to think of it, why did scum NK me on Night 1? I was under heavy suspicion from 2 talkative townies (Korts and Ecto).

[MacavityLock]

ThAdmiral: When, in his only sane post, Puta Puta asked you what you thought about Ectomancer, did you just not notice the correlation with your received result? I was wondering ever since you claimed the result why nobody asked you this question.

Seriously, once Puta was outed as Amnesiac Cop, how did no one notice this?

BTW, I agree that TDC's setup was real nifty.