Family Guy Mafia - Game Over

[RestFermata]

/confirm!

[RestFermata]

Vote: elvis_knits

Because Elvis doesn't knit; he's dead! LAL!

[RestFermata]

If that's a post restriction, Kmd, you already broke it...

P.S.

Unvote; Vote: Kmd

for even thinking about character claiming.

[RestFermata]

EBWOP

That was a joke, a reference to the last Family Guy game, which Kmd and I were in.

[RestFermata]

I was referring to this:

ongoing game. Not sure how much can be said about it.

But I don't mean to be a spoilsport.

[RestFermata]

Aw, I want a post restriction. --whine--

[RestFermata]

Well, I was Tom Tucker the vanilla townie last game, but I don't think my role then has anything to do with his role this game. Besides, Brian the dog was scum last time. Who would think that?

[RestFermata]

If it's anything like last game, regular Family Guy characters are double agents for the FCC. But I don't know if it's anything like last game. So this kind of speculation doesn't accomplish much.

[RestFermata]

I don't understand how one can play this game without using WIFOM to some extent. Not all WIFOM is created equal. For example, scum may make some sacrifices in order to appear more town. However, if the sacrifices are too great, it may be valid to say scum would not go so far just to establish a more townish image. I think that this entire game is WIFOM. We have to recognize that using WIFOM is often not going to lead us anywhere, but at times, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. (As long as we take speculation as speculation, not as fact, of course!)

So I have no problem with Kmd's WIFOM.

I think that flavor analysis is not useful and may send the town on the wrong track, but I don't necessarily see it as scummy. It's one of a few ways to pull us out of the random voting stage. However, I don't like Zilla's attempt to clear Kmd just for (allegedly) being Tom Tucker. Based on the last game, I believe that FCC scum could be absolutely anyone. Pretty much every character in Family Guy has problems, so you could come up with an FCC "we sympathize with your plight, now come join our cause" letter (based on the last game) for about any character. Even if it doesn't follow the format of the last game, I still think it is a valid assumption that the FCC should be anyone. We cannot and should not attempt to condemn or clear any player based on their role name alone. The fact that Zilla is doing something like this so early in the game worries me. It seems like he is trying to lead the town in the wrong direction logic-wise. Also, the fact that he retracted it immediately is also suspicious. Sounds like he's trying to put that statement out there, but also not look entirely responsible for it.

I also want to know what tajo means by the "security of Kmd." So far this is the only post he's made that seems like it could be relevant, but he didn't really explain enough. I want to hear more from him and the other players who have been lurking/lurking in plain sight before I cast a real vote.

Unvote

[RestFermata]

Well, I suppose you

could

play this game ignoring everything subject to WIFOM. But I think as long as you take WIFOM arguments with a grain of salt, they can be OK. And if you take them with a grain of salt, no one should be dragged into long boring arguments that cause players to flake. As long as you understand what WIFOM is, it shouldn't get that far.

Basically, though, I believe that we should take each WIFOM on an individual basis, as E_K is doing with Kmd's statement.

I do have a few questions for Kmd, all soaked in wine. Kmd, why would you be voting Zilla if you were scum? Would you also be voting Zilla if you both were scum? Could sitting back and let Zilla and the other players tear each other apart while standing aside out of the fray also be a good tactic?

[RestFermata]

Like I said, you basically either see how that makes him scum, or you don't. I promise you this is different that when townies say it. Though I can't really prove it or anything until he's dead.

So let's see...you somehow know that NO townie would phrase this in the way Wolf did, but you can't back it up. You appear way too sure that wolf is scum at this point for what looks like a pretty trivial reason to me.

[RestFermata]

Sorry for lurking. I have a competition this Saturday. I'll post as I can.

[RestFermata]

Why is Hybris' defense of Wolf scummier than, say, Kmd's?

[RestFermata]

I'm really coming back, I promise.

[RestFermata]

Good news. I just asked for replacement in two of my games. So maybe I can contribute more in this one soon so I won't be a lurking loser anymore.

[RestFermata]

All right, guys, I'm back. And hungry. I'm finally catching up on this game. Large games are difficult for me, so bear with me. And my name is

R-e-s-t-F-e-r-m-a-t-a.

I know it is weird, but it's a music thing. And I'm a nerd, so it irks me a little when people say things like RestFeramenta and RestaFermama and whatnot. So if it's difficult, RF will do. OK I'll stop being a bitch now.

I'm a newbie, but from what I've seen in games so far people who act annoying like PP often end up being town. It's frustrating because acting that way is really easy and makes it difficult to get a read, but I don't think PP would be the best D1 lynch.

I don't like this post by xtoxm:

Charter is the most pro-town player here, and Poro voting him makes me suspicious of him.

Charter is the most pro-town player here? Says who? Says you? Why? Sorry, but everyone doesn't have to listen to King Xtoxm. I'm a little iffy about charter myself because I see the "especially if you're town" psuedo-slip as a little bit of a stretch. I don't mind when people reach a little, but I think they should acknowledge that they are reaching rather than proclaiming their word as law. So it's pretty much the same problem between Xtoxm and charter right now. That might be why Xtoxm is so eager to accept charter as town.

Llama seems pretty pro-town to me. I'm getting genuine vibes from him at this point. However, I've never encountered him as scum. Actually I imagine that he is a pretty good player, scum or town, so it might be difficult to tell. Still, not seeing anything suspect from him. Maybe I'll give him a scum meta later to see if I really should be feeling so comfortable at this point.

I also like populartajo. At first something about him rubbed me wrong, but actually I see him as having pro-town commentary. He says what he means and doesn't mince words. That leaves very little for scum to hide behind.

I'm not sure I like Zilla either. The whole Hybris/Zilla idea seems to hold water. (Chainsaw defense from the wiki, anybody?) Also, I don't like people who do things like this:

Unvote: Charter
Vote: The Internet

I'm unvoting Charter because, even though he argued horribly and his exact argument has no basis, I'm now more suspicious of wolfram than before. Focusing on "especially if you are town" was wrong, and that alone is totally not convincing. The "you can be scum, so I'm voting you" on the other hand is more convincing.

Actually, come to think of it.

unvote: The Internet
Vote: Wolframnhart

/quote]

Those sorts of things seem contrived to me. If you change your mind about who you want to vote for, that's what the backspace key is for. I feel like it's a little bit like saying "look at all the free thinking I'm doing! You can follow my completely honest train of thought from start to finish!" Unlike charter, I will admit that this is a bit of a stretch, but it's just my feeling. However, he does give an explanation:

left it in there because it wasn't detrimental or contradictory, but I didn't feel like elaborating on The Internet because I had already accused him of not contributing and I'm finding Puta's just being an attention whore for now. The Internet then goes on to post his read on people, which I found very helpful, so he's not on my list anymore, but prior to that, he was my number 2, so I was falling back on him. I also kept it in because it's extra information about where I stand on things, which can't be bad to include.

I'm sorry, but even considering this, I can't imagine a case in which I would actually type the words "Actually, come to think of it" and unvote the person that I voted in the SAME POST. I don't know, it just seems like he was trying too hard.

I'll have more on Hybris later. Besides defending Zilla, I haven't gone over his posts a lot.

TM is probably the scummiest player in the game right now. All he does is yammer on about post restrictions. He also seems to be dripping in hypocrisy, voting Coheed for putting a 4th vote on Xtoxm in the random voting stage, and yet putting on an apparently random vote

beyond

the random voting stage and leaving it there with no explanation other than "Hybris is scum." Not only did he do that, but he then went on to say that he was just saying that to appease us. Guess he doesn't REALLY think that Hybris is scum...wow. I disagree with LF in a way. He's not just unhelpful. He's downright scummy. Double standards are scummy. Voting people for no reason and leaving those votes there is scummy.

Vote: TonyMontana

I'll be back later...after I go grab some dinner.

[RestFermata]

Hybris, the contradiction is nullified by the fact that I was quoting someone else. I just messed up the quote tags.

[RestFermata]

EBWOP. Sorry, you caught that a long time ago. Whoops.

[RestFermata]

Kmd, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Can you explain this T/D method, why it is so accurate, and why Porochaz's answer implicates him?

[RestFermata]

What are we supposed to do? Ignore his scumminess because he is always scummy? Let him get away with anything just because his meta suggests that he is always anti-town? If he is scum and people are going to give him a pass because he has an anti-town meta, this game will be a breeze for him.

[RestFermata]

Why did the "No" confirm Waar as town in that game? Was that also meta-based?

And what if I said Dare?

[RestFermata]

Tajo: Heh, I'm going to take that as a compliment!

Internet: Nothing really changed, I just made my first non-random vote, a little late since I was having trouble keeping up with my games.

[RestFermata]

Yeah unless there's some big secret about it, I don't understand why Kmd is being so vague about the whole Truth or Dare deal.

[RestFermata]

Is that how Truth or Dare always works?

[RestFermata]

Sorry, we don't have the "archives upgrade."

[RestFermata]

I think what Zilla means by "acting town" is not that Llama is "too town", but that his townieness is an act. Anyway I disagree. For now I'm going to call Llama legit. He acted similarly in the last Family Guy game. I still think that TM is a good choice. Going to stand by my vote. Nothing's changed other than the (premature) claim.

[RestFermata]

Sorry, over Thanksgiving I've been procrastinating paying attention to this large game. Going to set aside some time for this.

[RestFermata]

Well if I don't deliver soon, feel free to put me on the chopping block. I'm a busy lady, but I try to keep my promises even if I do so too late.

[RestFermata]

TheInternet's non-committal cases don't really light up my scumdar. Maybe it's just because I've always been accused of being non-committal as town. CC is tickling it a little, mostly because he accused TM of being openly anti-town while TI was just lurking, then switched his vote to the TI wagon because of it being more "clearly explained for him." He didn't elaborate on what this entailed, who did the explaining, or why he should trust their judgment.

People that I think are town: Llama, Kmd, forbiddan, populartajo, and I'm starting to get a town read from Zilla as well.

People I'm unsure of: wolf, charter, the player formerly known as Puta Puta, E_K, Poro, xtoxm (he did say during FG mini that this was the most fun he'd had in a mafia game, so I find his activity there to not necessarily be a town meta, but an EXTRAORDINARILY fun game meta) and TI.

People I am getting scum vibes from: TM for reasons previously stated, and Hybris (for often defending other players, as was stated before).

There is a LOT of neutrals. I am definitely going to have to elaborate on these and maybe I can discover something new. Bear with me, I know I've been absent a lot but I have trouble keeping up with large games in general. If anyone has any tips for attacking a large game please let me know because I just get lost and discouraged (that's why I replaced out of another game.)

[RestFermata]

Why EK?

[RestFermata]

I take "scumbait" to mean a person that would be an easy scum-driven lynch. This is because they act anti-town, and thus are easy to convince the town to lynch. Scum also often act anti-town, and town will try to convince the rest of town to lynch them. So how is town to tell the difference between scum and scumbait? In my mind if someone acts anti-town, it makes them possible scum. I don't like separating people into different categories of scummy.

[RestFermata]

I still feel more strongly about TM than TI. People's defense of him really sounds like "too scummy to be scum" to me. I'm not sure what to think of Llama. Though I am getting a town read on him, he does seem a little overconfident. I'd encourage the town not to follow him just because he is sure of himself. Even if he is town, he may be wrong. I still think TM's scumminess > TI's scumminess. Tomorrow I'm going to take a closer look at some of the more helpful/psuedo-helpful people rather than the lurkers/one-liners.

I'm sorry for checking in with something so short, but I'm low on time.

[RestFermata]

I don't know if TM is scum anymore. Though I still find his behavior grossly anti-town, I suppose it is less likely that he is scum now that we know that TI was scum, so I think we should look elsewhere, at least for today. As for my being a viable lynch for today solely based on that, I can only say that TM's behavior was a lot more blatant than TI's scumminess in my eyes, so I tunneled on TM.

Moving on, a lot of Hybris' perceived scumminess stemmed from his defense of Zilla and a possible scumbuddy relationship. Now that Zilla has flipped town, Hybris looks a little better. Just a little.

I'm actually a tad suspicious of wolf right now, to be honest. I'm not sold on his "slip" according to charter, but I don't see him radiating towniness in other respects:

@Llama

I see your point about The Internet, the scum hunting and quality of posts does need to pick up, and the asking about the deadline. Question from me though is do you feel there is a difference in The Internets posts and Xtoxms?

I know that I pretty much refused to join the TI wagon, so it's hard for me to judge without looking like a hypocrite, but this reads like a deliberate deflection to me now that we know TI was scum and Xtoxm was town. Xtoxm wasn't looking like the epitome of pro-town, but this was the last thing that Wolf said about TI or Xtoxm, leading me to believe that he was simply "throwing that out there." It also looks like a "playing both sides" post.

The way you keep vote hopping around, from hybris, to puta (what is it two, three times now?) yourelf, then TI and me all in one post seems to me more like you are trying to see where you can get a vote to stick, and the one on you could have been more of a hands up in the air i quit move, but it might be more under the frustrated player category.

Also playing both sides. Could be buddying up with Zilla while also trying to throw around suspicion. That looks like wolf is trying to see where he can get

suspicion

to stick rather than votes.

It's a weak case on wolf, but I think we do need to look at the wordier players today and wolf is one of the least townie in my opinion. He hasn't scumhunted much and it seems a little like he's trying to blend in and gain everyone's favor with his "mm, you're suspicious but not really" bit.

So that's my contribution for now.

P.S. We need to hear from bigbaldguy31 today since kloud only posted in the early game and Spolium flaked after his confirmation post.

[RestFermata]

I forgot that wolf was replaced. It's a shame, because it was easy to look back for patterns of behavior. Now it'll be a little more difficult. That said, I still think NS is a good place to look for today. I also want to look at BA, mainly because of an inconsistency that I found between the time he said charter vs. wolf looks like town vs. town and just now, when he said that he always thought the wolf wagon was ridiculous and plans to vote for charter. Looking at connections, TI/BA/NS could all be scumbuddies. They definitely didn't play hardball with each other too much.

[RestFermata]

Being misguided (though I have to mention that we don't

necessarily

know that TM is town) and being deliberately misleading are difficult to tell apart. All I can offer is my honest opinion, take it or leave it.

[RestFermata]

God, TM is so scummy. I don't see how you can think that people who thought he was scummier than TI are necessarily mafia, charter. You have to admit that he oozes scum from his pores.

[RestFermata]

Don't misrepresent me. Never have I said that. I am looking at NS/BA mostly today. I am just saying that there is nothing scummy about thinking TM was scummier than TI.

[RestFermata]

Well I just played in a game with MafiaSSK. Everyone was like "ignore him, that's what he's like!" "He's just MafiaSSK, he's always scummy." And guess what? He was scum. And we lost because no one could get a read on him. So maybe I'm just a little biased.

[RestFermata]

I'm here

[RestFermata]

I have been useful. I just haven't posted in a few days. Give me a break, it's finals week. It's almost over.

[RestFermata]

Look, ZONEACE, I'm not going to lie and say that I have been a major contributor in this game, but I get a little lost in large games. I had to replace out of the last one because it was really overwhelming for me. You're not grasping at straws, however. Over the winter break I am going to have a lot of free time to focus on this game, though at Lake Tenkiller I might end up with a really lousy internet connection.

I'm starting to become a tad less suspicious of you. I also don't see Bonnie reappearing as scum in the second game, though we do have a self-proclaimed bastard mod here.

The player that I want to look at most right now is Hybris. I know I said she looks a little better after Zilla flipped town because of the defense, but rereading her posts I've noticed that she has been defending almost every player at some point. I'm getting a definite "I'm attempting to simultaneously buddy up to everyone while still casting suspicion on anybody I can by seeming indecisive about everyone (excluding myself of course)" vibe from her. You're probably all going to accuse me of strawmanning, but just think of my summaries as MY take on Hybris' thinking, nothing more. But look at her last post about me:

But, to the point. Your case of RestFermata lurking and not contributing too much to the game does hold, but you may be exaggerating it slightly. I found that while a lot of those posts were no content, some of those you classified to be nothing, I would have assigned a little value to. Like, adding an opinion. Sometimes giving your opinion adds to the headcount of those who say they believe it, like more than one person making a case on a player, strength in numbers.

Summed up version; I think you have a case, but its not a completely major one. *Makes a mental bet with self*

(summary) Your case against RestFermata is pretty good, but not great!

If that were the only time he'd said something like that, I wouldn't think much of it. But check this out:

Thats interesting. I agree with what Charter said, and I understood, before the explanation. I don't know if it needs restating right now for others, but for the moment I'll assume that most get it. Wolf does make an interesting counterpoint, but I'm not exactly sure if its convincing, and stating exactly what it is in my own words would likely be scummy, so I'll have to let him explain it to everyone himself.

Anyway, not sure if the logic is precisely sound but...

Vote: Wolf

Its the best argument I've heard so far, despite slight presuming.

(summary) I agree with Charter, but Wolf's defense is interesting! I might believe it, but I might not. I'll have to think about it. I'm going to vote Wolf, but I'm going to leave the door open for changing my vote on a whim later because there is "slight presuming" in Charter's argument.

Oh, and as for general lurking-non scum hunting part....

There are many others who are doing similar things, and at points to a worse degree, so I don't think that you should single me out in that.

(summary) Hey, no fair! They're being scummy too! Don't look at me, look at them!

Should I just stop talking? Seems like every time I post you all turn right on me and tell me I'm being scummy.

(summary) You're not allowed to tell me that

I'm

scummy.

Yeah. Thats kind of what I was thinking you meant, just had to make sure.

Unvote: Wolf

I don't think it was really intended that way at all, its an interesting angle, but I'm starting to think its a bit too much of a stretch for a vote at the moment. I'll keep a watch on that though.

(summary) I really get off on riding fences, don't you?

Although on that very last point, I'm not exactly sure if I was all that active. Also, it wasn't exactly lurking, so its more of a five than 2 really.

Regardless, isn't that kind of thing disallowed, bring out of thread things into the game? Or does that not apply here? I remember there was a rule about not being allowed to check when a person is on and where they post in order to determine certain things, equating it to out of thread communication. Though that may have just been my native board.

(summary) You have to throw out the evidence! It was illegally obtained! *flails*

I have some reads, but its a little hard to sort out. There seem to be three arguments right now.

Hybris
Zilla
Charter/Wolf

Of these, only the case of Charter against Wolf seems to be of any real use right now.

(summary) I think that the case of Charter against Wolf is useful. I also think it is interesting. But I also think that it is a stretch!

I was going to say that it was decided already basically to lynch Tony, but I paid a bit more attention and noticed that TI has almost as many votes now, with the unvotes and such, so he actually is a viable second choice. Though unless something else happens, the votes on anybody but these two are like voting for a third party for president. I will likely vote tomorrow, still making my decision on which I find more scummy.

(summary) I am likely going to vote tomorrow. But not really. I will post twice tomorrow without voting. In fact I will not vote all day. That way I can neither contribute to the lynch of TI, nor be suspected for not participating in the lynch of TI!

OK, so my summaries were very biased and should be taken with a grain of salt. Or two. But the point is I am getting strong scum vibes from Hybris at this point.

Vote: Hybris

With ZONEACE looking more likely town, BA is someone to look at a little later. Right now my vote is staying on Hybris.

[RestFermata]

EBWOP: "nor be suspected for not participating in the lynch of TI!" should be "nor be suspectd for participating in a different wagon!"

[RestFermata]

I have an awful Internet connection. Posting will be severely limited until December 27th/28th.

That said, I think Zilla's posts have been pretty pro-town since early Day 1. I was suspicious of her at first, but now I'm fairly certain she's town. I don't agree with everything she says, but I find her logic a lot more solid than Llama's in general today. I too am scared that Llama might have been busing TI. I expect better logic from Llama than all this WIFOM he's been spitting out. It's like he thinks that everyone who is town MUST have been on the TI wagon and everyone who is scum MUST have been on the TM wagon. Personally I know that's not true. I feel like he may be trying to get us to buy into that, so he can clear himself while simultaneously putting suspicion on townies. I don't have a lot of logic to back that, but my gut says be weary, so I'm keeping it in mind. Regardless, I'm not a big fan of Llama's logic so far D2, so I'm not going to let him lead me.

Hybris' defense doesn't cut it for me. I think a meta would help me judge her though--I'll look into that next time I get the Internet. BA still looks scummy in my eyes, less so now that I'm somewhat less suspicious of ZONEACE, but beyond that I still see some scummy behavior.

[RestFermata]

The prodigal daughter has returned. To ZONEACE's dismay, I'm sure, this post won't contain any relevant content, except that I now feel really stupid for forgetting that Zilla 1 and Zilla 2 are different roles. Right now I'm just picking up my prod, but there WILL be relevant content very soon and you SHOULD hold me to that.

[RestFermata]

I also support an extension. I am reading and am about to make another post, but it would be helpful to have some more time because I really got behind when I went out to the boonies :\

[RestFermata]

OK, here we go.

Hybris, I don't like counter-counter cases and the inevitable subsequent counter-counter-counter cases as a rule because they lead to a chain of tedium, but I suppose I owe it to you to tell you what I don't like about your defense.

First off, I was not, in fact, strawmanning, despite my throwing around the term. I did not use my summaries as my basis for argument. This would be strawmanning, enlarged to show texture (aka exaggerated to make a point):

Hybris: I don't like RestFermata's case on me.
RestFermata: You're saying "I don't like RestFermata's case on me", but all I'm hearing is "I'm scum!" Town, Hybris just admitted she was scum. Lynch her!

Again, I just summarized my opinion on your posts. Not strawmanning unless I address the points in my summary rather than the points in your posts.

OK, to the play-by-play I so dread doing:

That summary is very in line with what I'm thinking, though thats a null summary, since your summary is essentially my summary reworded.

Yes, I didn't put an incredibly biased spin on this one because it's damning enough considering how many times you've said the exact same thing about so many other players/cases in the course of this game.

Incase you missed it, that was a poke-test for a response.

Yes, saying that is a nice way to retract...just about anything! The fact that it was a "poke-test for a response" doesn't change the fact that you used the same "I'm not going to invest myself in anything" logic that you've continued to use for the entire game.

I was actually asking why single me out in it in particular when there were worse cases to look at.

I'm aware of that. I still think it's scummy to do this in place of defending yourself.

I was trying to get attention to the fact that almost literally every post I was making at that point people were saying I was scum for, claims which I eventually for the most part refuted.

Well if people think your posts are scummy, they should definitely point that out. And I don't think you have exactly refuted their claims--other players have just garnered more attention at this point in the game.

So I'm not allowed to check what the rules are?

You didn't check, you just threw out something rules-related and saw if it would stick. Plus the context makes it seem like you had something to hide. In my opinion at least.

That was explained, as looking through the case at both Charter and Wolf and seeing how they were acting. I evaluate cases for how strong they are.

Is this one of those "if X flips town, Y looks scummier or vice versa" sorts of things? I'm not going to refute this but I'm not a big fan of this sort of thing. PEG hunted me throughout my first newbie game, 100% sure I was scum. He tunneled on me the entire game and refused to listen to any cases. He lurked a lot, only occasionally popping in to say "Why aren't we lynching Rest?" Everyone said one of our alignments were crucial to discern the other's, and we must have opposite alignments. And then they lynched him, and he flipped town. I was sure the town would come after me with pitchforks the next day, but for reasons I still don't quite understand, I was NK'ed the next night and flipped town. Everyone was shocked that PEG vs. RF was town vs. town. I had said that was a possibility, and people had called me scummy for it, but in the end it was true. Now it doesn't make you scummy for trying to attempt this kind of logic, and a lot of good players (like LF for instance) swear by it. But I find it kind of dangerous.

This whole argument cruxes on me trying to mask myself not voting so that I can't be suspected for voting for him or going against the lynch of him by participating in an another wagon. Which suggests that I didn't know what role he was. Which suggests that I'm not mafia with him. Way to go.

No. No. No. This suggests that you didn't want TI lynched so you didn't vote for him, but in the case he

was

lynched, you wouldn't want to be suspected for actively opposing it. But yeah, way to go to you, too, because you're not getting lynched today!

"Still staying with me?"

This has nothing to do with anything, so I shouldn't feel compelled to answer to it, but I was just saying that I planned to keep my vote on you for a while. Unfortunately I'm going to have to look elsewhere today with deadline possibly creeping up. So no, I'm not still staying with you--well, I am until I can find a better candidate that may actually get lynched. But IGMEOY still.

[RestFermata]

What's as strawmanning as it gets? The example of strawmanning I presented was

supposed

to be strawmanning. I really don't think my summaries were strawmanning--just a tongue-in-cheek interpretation of Hybris' posts. If they were, I apologize.

[RestFermata]

OK, I could totally see a scum double voter or a town double voter. Tubby is looking scummy as hell, and his predecessor definitely bothers me too. I'm definitely not opposed to that lynch at this point. I don't want this to descend into flavor speculation, but tubby, what's your flavor role name? Does it really say Mayor Adam West - Double-Voter?

[RestFermata]

None of it is

necessarily

scummy, just possibly scummy. This game isn't about solid proof. It's all about conjecture. Sorry for twisting your words, but I did also leave your unaltered words.

Anyway, I'm happy with a tubby lynch at this point. I seriously doubt that there will be a flavor connection between FCC. There was no such thing in the last game, and that was one of the reasons why it worked so well--scum didn't have to lie very much about flavor. I don't want to outguess the mod, but I doubt she'd change something that was very successful in the last game. And as Llama has said (I can't remember if it's in this incarnation or the last), that's one of the things that makes a well-balanced theme game--any evil character could be town or scum, and any benign character could be town or scum.

I think that tubby is telling the truth about being a double-voter. I think he is telling the truth about being Mayor Adam West. I'm not sure he's telling the truth about being town-aligned. I think that he is a viable lynch. His posts are scummy and vague.

I don't want to vote for him just yet, however. I think we can squeeze more discussion out of this day, though I'm not sure where to place the pressure just yet.

[RestFermata]

I'll also add that I am not the voteless player on the TM wagon.

[RestFermata]

So essentially tubby has 6 votes right now?

[RestFermata]

And you think that saying "town-aligned" twice

is

enough?

[RestFermata]

I'm not asking you if you think you've said it enough

times

. I mean, do you think that saying you are town-aligned twice is enough to show the town that you are town-aligned?

[RestFermata]

You know, it does seem odd that we have a non-voter that has earned little to no suspicion, and a double-voter that everyone thinks is scum. Wouldn't a town non-voter and a scum double-voter be very unbalanced? Still, farside has a way of smoothing these things out in unconventional ways, at least from what I've seen.

[RestFermata]

Thanks

Well, I'm saying that personally, I am beginning to find it unlikely that tubby is scum while forbiddan is town. I am also saying that farside is good at balancing these factors through other means, so I'm not going to put all my eggs in that basket, but it's bothering me a little. It's just kind of an extension of what you were saying.

[RestFermata]

Brian: Oh, just die already.

A possible message from the mod?

[RestFermata]

Llama - Cop? Who claimed cop? I must have missed that. I miss a lot of things in large games Which brings me to your suspicion of me -- I think I've said it before, but I really do get lost easily in these kinds of games. You had two mini game metas on me. Large games are a little overwhelming for me. I really don't like them as a rule, but I really want to be involved in this one because of how much fun I had in the FG mini. So if I am making a lot of "filler posts" it's just because I'm struggling to keep up. I'll probably improve as I get into the swing of things--in fact I think I already am.

Anyway, I don't think we should force anyone else to claim at this point. I agree with LF that based on the claims we have, the setup feels very town-heavy and we can probably find some scum within this pool. I'm not willing to clear LF at this point, and he's definitely a possibility for scum, but I wouldn't agree with Zilla that he is "rolefishing" in any way. This is a strategy I've seen from Llama in the FG mini. We all pretty much followed him despite his lack of a vote, but the problem is I was

far

more confident of his alignment then than I am now.

Still, I'm not sure I think that ZONEACE is scum. It's a hard read for me. I was suspicious of Wolf for reasons I mentioned before, but ZONEACE strikes me as abrasive town. If it comes down to lynching ZONEACE vs. an unclaimed, I'd choose ZONEACE, but personally I'd choose tubby over ZONEACE. I'd also prefer if the town as a rule could be more wary of letting Llama lead our thinking.

[RestFermata]

No, that's not rolefishing, that's challenging you because you acted like someone claimed cop when they didn't.

[RestFermata]

This is what I call rolefishing:

Is this a 'gut feeling', or do you actually have investigative evidence to support this statement?

Even though he has said repeatedly that it's not rolefishing, and he's just "clarifying"...to me, that's a textbook example.

[RestFermata]

It would've been fishing if it had come out of nowhere or had even come out of something more vague or implied, but the fact that you yourself mentioned a cop straight-up means that it was already out there in the open anyway. I suppose rolefishing is something different than I thought it was, but still, I think if anyone was doing it, it was you.

[RestFermata]

I don't know, charter, because I wasn't one of those people.

As for you, Acid, maybe you think that people should claim 100% if they claim. But wouldn't you agree that if charter were claiming an investigative role outright, it would be a really bad idea at that time? Why would you want to push him into that? Just because of your philosophy? You should think of what's good for the town. That kind of rolefishing just isn't. I'm not saying you're scum for it, because I don't have much to go on with you. But I challenge you to come up with a better example of rolefishing if yours is a bad one.

[RestFermata]

You think he is town because the people on his wagon seemed town? I don't quite understand.

[RestFermata]

Ulch...I don't really want to squeeze a claim out of another person, but I'm still thinking that forbiddan and tubby being opposite alignments would be unfair, and I still have a town read on forbiddan. I guess my vote should stay where it is, because I'm beginning to realize that I don't feel comfortable backing a lynch of any of the people who have claimed, besides maybe TM--although that's probably not happening today. So my vote'll have to stay where it is, actually.

Honestly, though, Acid Flux's last post is incredibly scummy. No reasoning to offer at all, really, AF? If Hybris is town, Acid Flux would be an excellent choice for tomorrow.

[RestFermata]

charter really is making no sense. I'm starting to rethink my belief that he is town. It seems that he really isn't reading anyone's posts before he accuses them of various things. I'm still more confident about Hybris, however. There's just too much doublespeak. And no, Hybris, you don't have to be "arrogant" in order to take a stand.

[RestFermata]

OK charter, you read, but either you don't read well, or you're twisting what everyone says. Maybe you just have a vivid imagination. Who knows? And I shouldn't even have to give you any examples. You can just read what people have already said to you about your "creative" interpretations of their words. I don't just mean Wolf, either. You just did it to Porochaz, for example, about the whole TM deal.

[RestFermata]

You're putting Hybris at L-1 without even saying why, TM?

(Yes, he is at L-1 because of tubby's double vote.)

Explain.

[RestFermata]

Wow, Llama, sorry for asking for reasoning. I'll stay away from your pal TonyMontana from now on, even though he's obviously not reading/caring/contributing.

[RestFermata]

Goodbye, and go town!

[RestFermata]

I didn't investigate TM, guys. I investigated Porochaz and I didn't breadcrumb. I wasn't sure how to breadcrumb that without being really obvious because I had never even said much about Porochaz. I didn't foresee that people would look for breadcrumbs when there weren't any. I guess I should have, but I'd never been a cop before. Sorry guys.

Of course I knew at the end EK was scum, because I didn't investigate TM. I also expected her to be the SK. What I didn't expect that was the mod was true to her word--she DID put an inventor/SK in the game, just like she said she would last Family Guy game!