Family Guy Mafia - Game Over

[Kmd4390]

This just in: Xtoxm is NOT the SK. Gotcha.

Confirmed.

[Kmd4390]

I assume something weird happened in other game. Care to share what?

ongoing game. Not sure how much can be said about it.

[Kmd4390]

Reporting live from Quahog urging residents to

vote Kloud

. Family Guy meta shows that he has a history of being scum.

This just in: An angry mob has formed outside.

We bring you live to Ollie Williams. Ollie?

Ollie: "We all gon' die!"

Thanks Ollie.

[Kmd4390]

Breaking News: Blak has used dice as scum before.

[Kmd4390]

Breaking News: Quahog doesn't like post restrictions.

[Kmd4390]

Some new developments, I don't see where I broke it unless you are looking at the confirmation stage which I think we can agree doesn't count.

In other news, I get the reference and you are what the Spaniards call "El Terible."

[Kmd4390]

Over to Charter with the local news: No Cleveland claim there, it's from the first Family Guy game.

[Kmd4390]

Top Story! That was in the confirmation stage RF.

Back over to Charter. Family Guy quotes are fun.

Especially

if they are "mean in a loving manner."

[Kmd4390]

Charter, I'm getting late word that you're a petty, jealous closet case.

This just in, that should normally go before your quote, but it works because i don't remember what Diane says to that, if anything at all.

[Kmd4390]

Breaking news, Xtoxm is wrong.

[Kmd4390]

Back with today's top story. I'm pretty sure charter was only quoting Tom Tucker for humor. Earlier developments show that he had intended to do this, and did so after some prompting. I don't know his role or character, and I don't think quoting Tom Tucker has anything to do with it.

[Kmd4390]

More developments on our top story. The restriction is real or I wouldn't be doing it.

[Kmd4390]

This just in. Character has absolutely NOTHING to do with alignment. In the last game, the scum were Bonnie, Brian, and Meg. With the exception of Meg, none of those are easily guessable.

[Kmd4390]

@Post Restricted Players - Is there any way to eventually lose your restriction or is it a game long one?

Some new developments in this story reveal that the restriction is game long. In other news, it's looking like the restriction will heavily hinder my gameplay. Kmd, signing off.

[Kmd4390]

Reporting to tell Quahog that it's always bad to try to use mod WIFOM, especially when that mod is Farside.

[Kmd4390]

Due to some interesting discussions I just added a new rule. See rule 5(a) for details.
Thanks

This just in, that's my rule!

[Kmd4390]

Unvote

Been reading through the last pages, and I must say, I'm not seeing the zilla case.

Reporting from Quahog to tell you that if I were scum, I'd be all over Zilla right now.

[Kmd4390]

Also, Kmd's statement right above me is WIFOM.

fos: Kmd4390

A bit of breaking new, yes Blak, recent developments show that it is WIFOM.

[Kmd4390]

Then why say it?

Breaking news, basic WIFOM isn't really a bad thing. In other news, the site I learned to play on uses WIFOM all the time as town.

[Kmd4390]

That's not an answer to my question KMD.

Then why say it?

Breaking news, basic WIFOM isn't really a bad thing. In other news, the site I learned to play on uses WIFOM all the time as town.[/quote]

More on our top story: I'm getting late word that I don't see anything wrong with basic WIFOM. In our 1:00 news, you will see that I am in fact using WIFOM to try and figure out who may be scum right now. In other news, people going after Zilla could very easily be scum looking for an easy lynch.

[Kmd4390]

I don't really get what you're saying, Kmd. How would using WIFOM out the scum?

Reporting live from Quahog to tell you that it doesn't necessarily out them. A source tells me that it just can help to think how you would play as scum and then see if anyone is doing that.

In other news, I agree with this:

I don't think [WIFOM] should be used as the main reason for voting a person

KMD's statement was something like "If I was scum I'd be voting zilla." I would much prefer he say why he thinks the people voting zilla are scummy or why the reasons to vote her are bad. Because that would be more rooted in argument than WIFOM.

We take you live to Elvis where this is no completely the point I was making. In other news, I was saying that as scum, I'd be attacking Zilla

hard

at the time I said that.

Top story is that playing with a post restriction is hard...

[Kmd4390]

I do have a few questions for Kmd, all soaked in wine. Kmd, why would you be voting Zilla if you were scum? Would you also be voting Zilla if you both were scum? Could sitting back and let Zilla and the other players tear each other apart while standing aside out of the fray also be a good tactic?

Moments ago we in the newsroom learned that Zilla was an easy target and I believe had a few people suspicious. Newer developments lead me to say that it wouldn't quite be time to bus yet, just if Zilla is town, I'd jump on Zilla as scum. In other news, lurking as scum is also a possible strategy that I think we are actually likely to see.

[Kmd4390]

This just in, we just interviewed Kmd. Here's what he had to say: "Blak, are you really voting me for saying that I would play a certain way as scum, and then accusing me of playing that way when I clearly didn't? The vote makes no sense."

In other news, we won't have any more interviews. It was a way to post for real without breaking the post restriction, but people in the newsroom seem to agree that Farside probably won't allow it in all posts.

[Kmd4390]

BREAKING NEWS HEADLINE: NEWS REPORTER MAY HAVE CAUGHT FCC SCUM

Right. Any chance we'll get anything done this day 1? Nooo? Are you sure?

Ah well, I can deal with it.

We learned early in this broadcast that Hybris had an attitude of "Day 1 won't help with anything." I'm getting word that that's scummy.

Yes, please do explain Charter. Personally I couldn't see anything scummy about it, but if you do then please say so.

This just in, here we see an out of place trying to look like participation post. Recent investigations (this is not a breadcrumb) revealed that Hybris hadn't posted for a few pages, and this was one post after Zilla responded to an unreasoned vote from Charter. Tricia Takanawa reported that Hybris then echoed Zilla with the post quoted above.

With all that on the table, I'm going to go with

Vote: Puta puta

for

quick! let's insta-wagon!

and

must...join...wagon... Unvote Vote:Xtoxm

I'm guessing it's a level 2 WIFOM-attention whore move, and he's attempting to hide in plain sight.

In other news, we have the well-documented answering for Zilla post.

So, I'm effectively being called scummy for

not

participating in the random voting stage?
I can kinda see the overall logic, but I'm not sure how this doesn't apply to lots of the other people who only voted randomly.

We now go live to Hybris making this comment well after the RVS had ended; also attempting to deflect attention.


The most recent development in this story was pointed out by llama. It appears that Hybris has made a grand total of seven posts here while remaining fairly active on mafiascum.

Brace yourself, this last report may be disturbing if you are scum. We have provided a bulleted list of evidence found against Hybris:


-"useless day 1" attitude.
-trying to look like he is participating without actually doing so.
-answered for Zilla.
-lack of participation shortly after RVS
-deflecting attention.
-lurking here while remaining active elsewhere.

Unvote, Vote Hybris

[Kmd4390]

Did Kmd ever claim?

Special report just in!!! no

In other news, Zilla had this to say:

He goes to Diane sometimes.

We responded, "where?"

PP does need to contribute though, as does another five or six people. Too many people are just drifitng along either parroting opinions or not even giving any.

Reporting live to QFT.

[Kmd4390]

You saying that is basically you saying you know he's town.

I don't see any certainty in Wolf's post....

[Kmd4390]

@KMD
what happend to the PR?

Breaking news, I completely forgot after posting in all my other games.

In other news, Charter is stretching with the point on wolf.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, restriction was broken. I can play normal now.

[Kmd4390]

I understand what Charter means.

I don't see this at all. I make similar comments all the time. He basically said, "if you are town, you shouldn't answer for other people. Because you did, I don't think you are town." I don't see anything wrong with this.

[Kmd4390]

Charter, I still think you case on Wolf is crap.

Xtoxm, why do you agree with the charter case without even posting a Xtoxm style analysis. I'd expect more from you than what you posted.

Hybris, and defense against my case on you?

[Kmd4390]

1: Oh ho ho..... in a lot of the games I've played, the random stage takes up the entire first day. I have complete reason to believe from my experience that day ones might go to hell.

I've never seen a RVS take up a whole Day 1 before. And your quote from the beginning of the game implies that you think Day 1 IS a waste, not that it MIGHT go to hell.

2: I'm sorry for not being around 24/7. Also, I'm suddenly not allowed to even agree with someone on something?

No, you can agree with people. Just try to add some things to the game for yourself.

4: He was asking me why I hadn't accused anybody of anything yet. And I countered by mentioning that there are tons of people that had only made accusations in the random stage, which effectively meant null. But they weren't being prosecuted because hey, they participated in the random voting stage. Thus the wording.

"Other people are scummy too, so that means I'm not as scummy."

5: Kidding, right? Seven posts lurking? When there are several players who haven't made even that many by now? I find it hysterical how people keep insisting I'm lurking.

You aren't lurking now that you are under fire.

Regardless, isn't that kind of thing disallowed, bring out of thread things into the game? Or does that not apply here? I remember there was a rule about not being allowed to check when a person is on and where they post in order to determine certain things, equating it to out of thread communication. Though that may have just been my native board.

I've never seen that rule on any of the 3 sites I play on.

[Kmd4390]

2nd1: Well, sarcasm combined with an attempt to avert it might lead to that. I find overexaggerating a problem tends to get people to focus on it more.

Well my point was that enough discussion on Day 1, and serious discussion, can lead us in the right direction meaning it isn't useless. Do you agree with this now that we have progressed since you made the comment?

2nd2: Just saying I have been, and am continually trying to.

Fair enough. Just that one post was an out of nowhere show up to agree and disappear again post.

2nd4: No, I'd say its more of "Other people are doing the same thing, so why single me out?"

Fact is, you were looked at. Defend yourself instead of just saying that other people are doing it too.

2nd5: I wasn't lurking before. I was stating that lots of people don't even have seven post now when I had that many back then.

But you weren't posting nearly as much as you are now.

[Kmd4390]

Was that the entire point, really? Yes, it has progressed.

It has, but has your attitude towards Day 1 changed now that it has?

Alright, though if thats the only reason, you have much more viable culprits. Defended below.

I had 4 other reasons.

As you said, I caught fire. I suddenly have everything in my face and I have to continually respond to threats to myself rather that comb the thread for something/do anything useful, which would take more time, effort, and likely not require nearly as many posts.

Don't forget that scumhunting is just as important as defending yourself, especially if you are town. Right, Charter?

Just that one post was an out of nowhere show up to agree and disappear again post.

Nothing to say about this?

[Kmd4390]

Hybris, the only scumhunting that I have seen from you is your vote on Wolf and you could stretch to say your lurker list.

[Kmd4390]

Right, but you must have some read on other players.

[Kmd4390]

Zilla, I agree that Hybris isn't lurking now, but have you seen any scumhunting in Hybris's posts?

Charter, I really don't see how the hell you think Wolf knew anything from that post.

[Kmd4390]

Zilla, again, I KNOW THAT HYBRIS ISN'T LURKING ANYMORE.

And if anyone jumps on Hybris for saying who is scummy after I asked who is scummy and said Hybris isn't scumhunting, then that person deserves to be looked at. It isn't deflecting attention if you are asked first. I don't see any reason for Hybris not to give thoughts on the game right now.

[Kmd4390]

What?

[Kmd4390]

I agree with you. Hybris lurking isn't an issue now.

[Kmd4390]

I think you're still missing the point, that it wasn't the lurking that was the problem ever. To begin with. Before now.

It's quite frustrating needing to bring something up 3 times to get attention. Maybe I should rephrase everything three times just to get the point across. It's possible being redundant could clarify my posts a little better. Saying the same thing repetitively may aid others in understanding what I'm trying to say.

I'm saying you're not going to get anywhere through the lurking argument, because even before now, Hybris wasn't truly lurking. The point to address is the intent and content of Hybris's posts. The point of Hybris lurking is a dead-end, it's not inherently scummy enough to hold weight, and it wasn't demonstrated strongly enough in the thread to hold weight. It's better to focus on what was said than how much.

Have I made it clear yet? Do you understand now? Is further elaboration required?

(Sorry for condescending, but it's really rediculous how much of my posts are ignored. I apologize for the belittling tone, however, it's quite ludicrous how many times I've had to restate the same thing in multiple posts. I express my deepest regrets over belitting the intelligence of those who are reading, alas, my previous posts have required much the same further elaboration before they are understood).

Again, I still agree with you. Want to try and argue the point again though just to make sure?

[Kmd4390]

December 2nd.

[Kmd4390]

EK, you are making no sense with that. Wolf said that town shouldn't do something, and that makes whoever it was (Hybris?) scummy because town shouldn't be doing whatever it was. How is that implying any knowledge of that person being town?

[Kmd4390]

Brian: Peter, face it. You're a terrible liar.
[Cutaway to Peter getting into an elevator with another man. The other man sniffs a foul odor.]
Peter: Uhh...it was you.

And because of Family Guy, any time I am blamed for anything, I use this line. Sorry for off topicness.

[Kmd4390]

He doesn't. Ok, let me try it like this.

Action X is scummy. Person A does action X. Town has no reason to do X. Person B votes A for doing X because town shouldn't do X because X is scummy. So if A did X, A is either scum or town who made a bad play. Now person C comes in and votes B for knowing that A is town. You can expect that a few people will wonder what the hell C is thinking.

Your case makes no sense. You are essentially voting Wolf for saying that Hyrbris did something that town shouldn't do which in Wolf's mind means that Hybris is less likely to actually be town. But you are using the reasoning that Wolf somehow knows Hybris to be town. I really don't get it.

[Kmd4390]

You are ridiculously off with this point, and now you won't even let me try to show you why? It isn't a scumtell at all. If someone does something that town shouldn't do, and you vote them on it, how is that scummy. Let's say that someone claims scum. Extreme, I know, but it will show my point. So someone claims scum. Town shouldn't claim scum, so the person is probably not town. Now barring a jester being in the game, doesn't this person deserve a vote? Didn't this person do something that town shouldn't do? If you vote this person, does it mean you know they are town? NOT AT ALL. YOU ARE DOING THIS TO WOLF BUT IN A LESS EXTREME SCENARIO. How do you not see this?

[Kmd4390]

Hybris, do you think Wolf said anything to suggest that he knows you are town?

[Kmd4390]

So if Hybris flips town, you are going to say Wolf knew it and is scum to continue pushing this?

[Kmd4390]

He didn't think Hybris was town. You are looking at a picky detail that can be found in most any game I've been in.

[Kmd4390]

Why is Hybris' defense of Wolf scummier than, say, Kmd's?

Wolf could still be scum. I'm just saying that the "especially if you are town" comment is not a slip at all. I have made similar comments. And if everyone wants to play the game of "who is defending wolf?" based on noticing the crap logic from charter, by my count it's me, hybris, and llama in order of who did the most. Let me know if I missed anyone.

Hybris, to answer a question directed to another player is never a good thing, especially if you are town. By answering a question for someone, even if it is just quoting what they said, you are effectively stopping another players scum hunting and depriving the rest of the players whatever answer the questioned player would have responded with, so in other words you can either effectively save a scum player that was questioned, or make a town player that was questioned become scrutinized because you are defending them without cause or being asked to.

That whole portion is wolf giving advice to Hybris about how she can look less scummy. Nowhere does it say or imply that she has scummy motivations for her actions. In fact it sounds to me like he assumes she is town.

I'm still seeing it the same way. Answering for another player isn't good. I agree with that. Answering for another player

IF

you are town, just as bad. If you want to argue that Wolf is seeing more bad play than scummy actions, that's fine. If you are going to try to tell me that Wolf claimed to KNOW that Hybris is town, and then voted Hybris, I'll tell you it's craplogic.

I hadn't noticed KMD defend Wolf.

Yes, I've been commenting on Charter's bad logic. More than Hybris. More than Llama (who commented on it breifly). Where have you been?

KMD, why have you dropped the PR?

I had a post where I forgot, so it was already broken for today. Not necessarily a bad thing. I feel like I can play better now.

Yes, hybris is essentially confirmed not scum (town) in my eyes now. Obviously I didn't defend him before you told us you're scum, because he was looking pretty bad then.

Awesome, let's confirm townies on Day 1 based on accusations built off of wording of a post.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, so anyone who thinks that everyone who doesn't see Charter's case, the scum are apparently me, Hybris, Llama, and Zilla. Anyone else?

[Kmd4390]

Xtoxm, why do you want Wolf lynched? Is it really just because he said "especially if you are town"? I would hope not, because you are better than that.

[Kmd4390]

Zilla, I wouldn't use a line like that, especially if you are town.

[Kmd4390]

But llama, you see, we have no reason to say that, especially as town. So if you vote us, you know we are town and that makes you scum.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, it's definitely sarcasm. I agree with you on this one. That post by Wolf was NOT a slip, regardless of his alignment.

[Kmd4390]

ok having lost track of this game due to illness (my catch up on games is tomorrow hopefully) I noticed that kmds post restriction has suddenly stopped after today. Ok so you broke it once, you usually have to carry on and be punished accordingly, so why are you given a free pass now with no evidence of anything happening?

There's no free pass.

I'd like to shtate thatsh havingsh an annoying PR to upshold ish a rasher good reashon to hash lower posht output.

I agree.

Alsho, I shink KMD should at leasht vaguelysh allude to whatsh happensh if you should breaksh your PR, at leasht to alleviatesh worriesh thatsh you should hash been modkillsh.

Your PM should tell you what happens.

[Kmd4390]

Puta, it's a post restriction.

[Kmd4390]

A post restriction means your PM tells you you have to type like that. You don't have a restriction, so please stop.

[Kmd4390]

Zilla, I'm not saying that EVERYONE who disagrees with Charter is town. I was trying to show how bad his case was, but that doesn't mean disagreeing with a bad case means auto-town. It doesn't mean auto-scum either, which is the point I was trying to make. If you didn't notice, Hybris is on that list, and I am voting Hybris.

[Kmd4390]

Hybris, yes you did come out of lurking, although with convenient timing. I still think that more scumhunting would be nice though. The other points, for example answering for Zilla, still stand.

The fact that wolf said it but didn't believe it.

How can you know this?

If I am right though I get an "I told you so".

So do I.

To be honest, I think a The Internet lynch is the next best choice after wolf.

I'm starting to think this is a decent idea.


I agree with what a few have said. Puta, no need to attack Forbiddan just because she is drunk. If you are going to attack her, do it because she didn't share with the rest of us.

[Kmd4390]

Your two examples are much more legit than what you call a "slip" from Wolf in this game.

And you've got to be kidding me Knight. Another vote on Wolf because he said something that town-aligned players say all the time. How can you, EK, and Xtoxm not see this huge stretch by Charter.

[Kmd4390]

It's not the same at all.

[Kmd4390]

It's not the same at all.

[Kmd4390]

Has anybody looked at Xtoxm's posts in isolation? A lot of one-liners. A lot of short posts. Very general. Not one semi-large case. I seem to remember much more in the Family Guy mini.

[Kmd4390]

What makes one liners scummy?

You can post 10 one liners a day without adding content, and nobody has a case that you are lurking. When almost your entire post history is one liners, it's suspicious. Some people on SA actually consider it a pretty big tell.

A lot of short posts is what I expect from xtoxm... he's sorta famous for double, triple, quad posting himself with one liners. He doesn't strike me as scummy this game. But more info is always good, so it would be good if he talked a bit more.

True, but has he double, triple, quad posted himself in this game, or just posted single one liners most of the time?

I'd vote Xtoxm if no one wants to lynch Hybris yet. I'm suspicious of both.

[Kmd4390]

You keep saying you're suspicious of me, though I've already explained everything I can and answered your questions. Personally, I don't see what else I can say.

You have probably explained it the most you can at this point. The fact is, though, everything that happened, happened. It can be explained, but not erased. We have differing opinions about your intent, and that probably won't change any time soon.

See this game why people on SA's opinion doesnt count much here and why if you come here your VERY quiet about it...
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6490

Wow, first glance I recognize Windshipper, Kilgrey, and fitty. I've played several games with Wind, including my first. He's a great player, and so is Kilgrey. I've only played 1 game with fitty though, and he was SK. I'll look a little closer at the game. Oh, I see Women's Rights was in the game too. Another amazingly great player. WR and Wind are so hard to read. It's unbelievable. There's a couple other SA names I recognize, but haven't played with. Sorry if I'm getting off-topic, just got excited to see some of those names.

Anyway, I'll read the game when I have time.

Do you dislike anything he has said/done, or just the fact that he's posting one-liners? I think a combination of both would be more telling.

Well, he hasn't added much to the game, and he jumped on Charter's bad case on Wolf. That's about all I can get from the little bit he has done.

[Kmd4390]

Zilla, why are you doing something similar to what you just went against charter for doing?

[Kmd4390]

Any townie can be mislynched? Why does Xtoxm have to be talking about Wolf? Don't get me wrong, I'm still suspicious of Xtxom, but I don't think this was any kind of slip. It's very similar to Charter's case on Wolf.

[Kmd4390]

Charter, read his posts in this game. It's the Family Guy mini.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 05&start=0

And how does it benefit scum to post one-liners and not add anything to the game? Well, he's posting, so he isn't lurking, and he doesn't say anything overly suspicious if he doesn't say much. If he doesn't build any huge cases, he can't be looked at for a possibly bad case, or a case that can hurt him later on.

[Kmd4390]

He was town in that game. Did he play differently than he is in here?

Yes. He was much more involved. I'd say one of the most involved townies in that game along with Llama and Reborn. And he actually had more posts than either. (18 pages)

[Kmd4390]

And you can't call Wolf "caught" before he flips.

[Kmd4390]

Perhaps I'll give that game a look a little later. 80 pages for a mini is monstrous.

I'm not asking you to read all 80+ pages. I'm asking for a quick glance at Xtoxm's posts. There is much more substance to those posts than the posts in this game. Also, acknowledge the fact that he posted more than anyone else in that game.

[Kmd4390]

See this game why people on SA's opinion doesnt count much here and why if you come here your VERY quiet about it...
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6490

Porochaz, Truth or Dare?

[Kmd4390]

Sorry for double post, but Wind's milk bone post in that game is great! Typical Windshipper.

[Kmd4390]

Looked at just his posts, he did have a lot and a lot of big ones. However, don't see few and small ones as scummy for him, he's done it as town before.

Got a link?

@xtoxm: How is Charter the most pro-town player? Are you just saying that because he started the wolf wagon?

I second this question

I had this question typed out just before I read Blak asking it, so I'd like to see it answered as well.

Xtoxm gives me town read as well as Elvis.

Not just because they both agreed with you about Wolf, and Xtoxm called you protown I hope.

[Kmd4390]

Read Xtoxm's second to last post

Replaced in at the end and was right about everything (so was I...)

I'm not linking to more games for you Kmd, I don't know why you insist on it.

Neither of these games show one-liners or just agreeing/disagreeing with people. He is much more involved from what I see in those games. The post you said to look at in the first link doesn't say anything about one-liners or anything like that. It's just his playstyle in general which seems to be more involved. There is a significant difference in this game.

Oh, and usually Xtoxm suspects me breifly in a game, and hasn't done that yet.

[Kmd4390]

See this game why people on SA's opinion doesnt count much here and why if you come here your VERY quiet about it...
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6490

Porochaz, Truth or Dare?

[Kmd4390]

Pretty much a very effective way of determining one's alignment. WR is a great player and called it game breaking because of it's accuracies. I was surprised to see that WR was town in that game because normally, only scum go against T/D.

[Kmd4390]

Are you scum?

[Kmd4390]

Llama seems pretty pro-town to me. I'm getting genuine vibes from him at this point. However, I've never encountered him as scum. Actually I imagine that he is a pretty good player, scum or town, so it might be difficult to tell. Still, not seeing anything suspect from him. Maybe I'll give him a scum meta later to see if I really should be feeling so comfortable at this point.

Knock out 2 birds with 1 stone. Look at mini 628 and you have scum meta on both Llama and myself. He was so "pro-town" in that game that he easily rode to engame and won it for us.

Oh, and Hybris has been giving me second thoughts for a while now. I'm not going to be giving any free rides any time soon, but...

unvote, vote Xtoxm

I also agree that we obviously need more input from a few players, TM included in that.

[Kmd4390]

Llama, that's my point. I always have that feeling in the back of my head that you are scum even with pro-town posts.

[Kmd4390]

Here's the link to that game where Llama won it for the scum for anyone who enjoys meta, and more specifically for RF.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=525

[Kmd4390]

Are you scum?

No

Any reason you gave the exact same answer as the one that cleared Waar in the game you linked me to?

[Kmd4390]

Also, as far as the TM wagon, I pretty much agree with Zilla. The speed of it makes me think it's scum-driven.

[Kmd4390]

unvote, vote Porochaz

[Kmd4390]

unvote, vote Porochaz

Hmm, interesting, Im waiting to see how your going to lay out this case.

Don't need to. I used the "game-breaking" T/D which is banned in most SA games because of it's accuracy.

[Kmd4390]

Porochaz took an exact answer from the game he linked me to. In that game, Waar got a free pass until his NK in N1 for answering "No" to that same question. Porochaz played in that game, saw Waar get the easy pass, and used his answer.

T/D started on SA as a joke. T/D in a mafia game? Funny. Anyway, people got so good at it that it confirmed townies and caught scum damn near every time. Like 99 out of 100. It's now no longer allowed in pretty much every SA game. I just joined one where the rules specifically say "No T/D or any other game-breaking shit."

T/D was unfortunately before my time on SA, but I've seen how it works. Pretty sure Porochaz is scum.

[Kmd4390]

Tajo, it's exactly the same answer. Nothing more than, "No".

I'd support the following lynches in this order:
Porochaz, Xtoxm, Hybris, TI.

I still don't like the way the TM wagon is going.

[Kmd4390]

Tajo, how would you have answered it without any knowledge of the other game and without knowing what Porochaz answered?

[Kmd4390]

No, that doesn't make you scum. I actually am pretty sure you are town.

[Kmd4390]

732 still waits an asnwer.

Kmd what is the correct answer to that question?

Yours was acceptable.

[Kmd4390]

"No" was the exact response that confirmed Waar as town in the game that Porochaz linked me to. Even if you had said "No", I'd probably have believed that you were trying to prove a point that Porochaz isn't scum.

[Kmd4390]

Why did the "No" confirm Waar as town in that game? Was that also meta-based?

And what if I said Dare?

More than likely. It was apparently enough to get him NK'd N1 though.

As for dare, well, that didn't happen now did it?

Yeah unless there's some big secret about it, I don't understand why Kmd is being so vague about the whole Truth or Dare deal.

What's vague about it? I asked Porochaz if he was scum. He used the exact same answer that confirmed Waar in the game he linked. I voted him.

[Kmd4390]

Is that how Truth or Dare always works?

It varies although it's accuracy is undeniable.

[Kmd4390]

Zilla, what information would you take specifically from Tony's death?

Porochaz, yes we are allowed to link offsite. I've done it to show a game on GNE where masons were a scum/town pair. SA is a one time payment of $10. I'm don't exactly remember where to find the ridiculously old games from before the T/D ban, but I could try or even ask a long time vet where to find it. I'm not exactly sure if you'd be able to view it. I think it depends on the game. I know that the first game I ever played, I was a replacement in a game that I couldn't view until I joined the forums. I know that I read some threads without logging in though, so again, I think it depends on the thread.

[Kmd4390]

www.somethingawful.com

Click forums on top left. Go under Traditional Games. Only problem is those games aren't much more than a year old. I once found the older games, but I don't remember where.

[Kmd4390]

The whole argument over T/D is pointless and distracts from conversation at hand. I realize that some sites put some backing to "honestly claiming pro-town", I dont in the least bit, and I doubt many people here do. Same goes for the T/D answer which is more of a loaded and WIFOM question then anything else.

We are again getting distracted from the main point at hand which is scumhunting. So please, no more debates over the whole T/D thing, as they are anti-town and hold absolutely zero wieght (argueably negative) in a case against a player. We are around a week to deadline, and this is not the way to be spending it with a holiday coming up where many people are going to be inactive.

But we can lynch scum. Don't you want to lynch scum?

Suspects:
CoheedCambria09
charter
Puta Puta
populartajo
Zilla

Maybes:
xtoxm
hybris

Town:
Forbiddanlight
RestFermata
Llama

Why Tajo? I haven't really seen a case on him.

[Kmd4390]

I can't find older games on SA. I'm looking around though. I know I've seen it.

[Kmd4390]

That game shows WR saying that T/D is gamebreaking. I can link you to SA games where the rules call it gamebreaking. That's the best I have for now. I'm still looking for the games from before the T/D ban.

[Kmd4390]

Got it!

http://mafiawiki.four-horsemen.com/index.php/Games_List

You can see T/D in games from 2001! You can see it catch scum and confirm townies. You can see people get pissed off and call it game-breaking and get lynched because they say that as scum. You can see some of the very first games to ban T/D. All old SA games are on this list. (And if you want scum meta on me, go to this game: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... id=2932306 ).

So yeah, told you I'd find it.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, I still don't like the TM wagon, and I think it could be scum-driven.

[Kmd4390]

I never said Wolf was confirmed town who could "cruise to endgame". I just said that your "catch" wasn't a tell.

[Kmd4390]

TI, why are your reads all so non-commital? You should say whether you think the person is town or scum. These reads of "here's the good, but then this is bad" don't really help much.

[Kmd4390]

TI, why are your reads all so non-commital? You should say whether you think the person is town or scum. These reads of "here's the good, but then this is bad" don't really help much.

This batch was mostly on people whose posts have trickled off. I generally base of my scumhunting on how people answer my accusations.

And who has been unsatisfactory in their answers?

[Kmd4390]

EBWOP: Also, I had a serious bust-up laughter fit when Charter said "not as town as Xtoxm." Please tell me I'm not alone in thinking Xtoxm is scummy?

No, you aren't alone.

[Kmd4390]

Xtoxm, you say you are putting full effort in... Why the more laid back style this game? I remember you leading the town in the Family Guy Mini, along with Llama and reborn. I'm not seeing that here.

[Kmd4390]

Xtoxm, you say you are putting full effort in

... Why the more laid back style this game? I remember you leading the town in the Family Guy Mini, along with Llama and reborn. I'm not seeing that here.

That's entirely the point; i'm not.

Well, I thought you were saying you were. New question then. Maybe not new, but slightly re-worded. Why not?

[Kmd4390]

I dare Charter to make a post that doesn't make me suspect him more.

But what if he picks truth?

[Kmd4390]

Wow, now I can say I have played a game with Gimbo. Lol.

[Kmd4390]

Ignoring questions is just as anti-town as tunnel vision.

[Kmd4390]

Any reason for not answering this?

Xtoxm, you say you are putting full effort in

... Why the more laid back style this game? I remember you leading the town in the Family Guy Mini, along with Llama and reborn. I'm not seeing that here.

That's entirely the point; i'm not.

Well, I thought you were saying you were. New question then. Maybe not new, but slightly re-worded. Why not?

[Kmd4390]

I don't know who the "his cases" refers to, and I'm not dismissing them, Charter's just at the top of my list.

You don't know who "his" is, and then you specifically mention Charter?

Could spol, tajo, zilla, BA, kmd, hybris, pacman and TI explain why they are either voting for someone that isnt going to be lynched or not voting at all? Given that deadline at the latest is in about three and a half days, it doesnt make much sense, especially since there isnt a lot of talk about why we should be lynching these people instead of TM or TI.

I've already said why Porochaz is scum. Nobody here likes that as a reason though. I would prefer a TI lynch to TM though if that's what you are asking.

[Kmd4390]

I'd agree with an Xtoxm lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Xtoxm should be putting effort in. And I already gave an example of a game where he did put effort in. Ironically, it was the Family Guy mini.

As far as why it's being discussed, it has been brought up a few times. Most recently, Blak said that he would be for it. I agreed. You (Porochaz) agreed. We have a discussion.

[Kmd4390]

I'll be honest. I don't really like either of the TI or TM wagons. TI is a better lynch than TM, but I'd prefer other people to them. Porochaz, Xtoxm, CC, EK to name a few.

[Kmd4390]

Why EK?

Mostly gut. EK seems to be voting the same way as Xtoxm, or maybe the other way around. I haven't really looked closely at EK, but I get a scummy vibe. Porochaz and Xtoxm easily top my list.

[Kmd4390]

Posting so I do not get replaced. Kmd4390 sounds fishy like he was tring to save scum on his team. Wont change my vote but I will keep my eye one him.

Meaning you really think that both TM and TI are scum? Are you aware of the term "scumbait"? Because that's what both look like IMHO.

[Kmd4390]

Remember that someone agreeing with you, or you agreeing with them doesn't make them town. (I mean Xtoxm here.)

[Kmd4390]

Scumbait is usually a newb lurker who gets called out, or an active newb who is easy to manipulate. Scum will pile on votes, and paint everything they do as scummy. They end up being an easy lynch that requires no explanation about being wrong because, hey, they were scummy.

Actual newb scum, you usually see more indecision from the people on their wagon.

That's why I think TM at least is scumbait. TI could fit into either category I guess.

[Kmd4390]

I'd like to try out a wagon on Xtoxm. If it gets close to deadline, and it's not happening, I'd still prefer TI to TM.

So, Porochaz is still scum, but...

Unvote, Vote Xtoxm

Let's see if this goes anywhere.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, well, if Xtoxm is going to become a feasible wagon again,

vote: xtoxm

.

You haven't unvoted TM.

I still love the fact that you think Im scum over a game of T or D.

Noted.

[Kmd4390]

Misprint, or vote switcher?

I think they mean the fact that it says 1 vote on Xtoxm with 3 names listed.

[Kmd4390]

Last game which was a mini had someone thats vote did not count, and someone was made into a double voter.

And the double vote was busdriven, and went unnoticed even after it affected three lynches.

Anyway, yeah, if the Xtoxm wagon doesn't pick up before deadline, consider my vote on TI.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, the Xtoxm lynch isn't going to happen today. Nobody is jumping on, and Zilla just switched. Deadline is today, so I'll do what I said I would.

Vote The Internet

[Kmd4390]

TI, a claim within the next few hours would be nice.

[Kmd4390]

Early Morning Action News Report: Our top story is 3 townies were found dead. Who was behind it, you ask? Porochaz. Developments from the previous day reveal that he is scum due to T/D and his unwillingness to vote TI.

Vote Porochaz

[Kmd4390]

For our current top story, why wasn't CC looked at as much as TI/TM yesterday?

[Kmd4390]

Going to vote

TM

Reporting live from Quahog to ask why.

[Kmd4390]

Don't make me get Herbert (the dirty old man) in here to start doing prods. He might stay awhile and visit if you are young and strapping boy.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 43&start=0

[Kmd4390]

@kmd - Why is Poro scummier then Nitro?

Breaking news, I don't see the case on Nitro.

[Kmd4390]

hell I dont even think he is the pants SK.

Reporting live to ask why.

[Kmd4390]

I am willing to put a pretty big bet on it. The way the whole day went down to me makes TM town. The timing of the wagons, the speed, the voters, it all makes more sense that TM is town. Even the only people who think TM is scum are the ones who were deadline voting him yesterday.

And we go live to Llama to ask how this is different from what is happening with Nitro today.

Llama?

[Kmd4390]

Lot more resistnace from players then there was with the TM wagon where most people just said "yeah I agree" or ignored it for the most part. There also is a much more aggressive and fixed in counterwagon that never much happened with the TM wagon.

New developments show us that TI was lynched. Over to Llama again: How was that not a counterwagon?

[Kmd4390]

Also, to everyone not voting NS, would you vote him over TM?

Reporting live to say that I don't think either is scum, but yes, I'd vote NS over TM.

[Kmd4390]

Recent developments in our top story show that Charter has no case.

[Kmd4390]

Live from Quahog reporting that Zone could be scum even with the role he claimed.

[Kmd4390]

This just in: Porochaz is drunk.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, building a case with a post restriction is hard, so I'm going to go without it again. I feel like the restriction is forcing me to not say as much as I'd normally like to. I don't agree with the cases on Zone, Charter, Nitro, or TM. I'm getting a scummy read off of EK. Here's my case:

I don't think charter really has a post restriction. Faking it is probably just a joke.

On closer examination, looks like just KMD with it, and Tom style restriction...Or one of them, anyway. Charter's quote made me think what I said before.

I wonder what he meant when he said you're wrong.

I guess, it's just that I can't see KMD being other than Tom and I can't see KMD knowing what role Charter has.

Let's just try to adhere to this:

Non post restricted people should neither be acting like they have post restrictions or acting like characters. It will only manage to end badly.

These are consecutive posts. Nothing between them. Nothing taken out of any of them. EK is discussing the post restriction(s) and nothing else. Why is this scummy? It does nothing as far as scum hunting (why I do always get the typo of scum "hinting"?) and is a way to still participate. Scum jump on things like this all the time. It's just like in a newbie game where a theory discussion comes up, and a scum IC jumps all over it to look like a key contributor when they are actually doing nothing for the town. That's what I'm reminded of with all of this post restriction discussion. Not that it's bad to discuss at first, but some scum hunting around that time would be nice.

One more question. If it is fake, where you attempting to make a soft claim to reference later?

This question seems loaded.

Now this is still about the post restriction, but is starting to go somewhere. Except why not elaborate on the question being loaded? Why not call Blak scummy for it? Just a one liner accusation isn't going to get much attention. But again, you are posting, so you aren't lurking.

Soft claims are scummy. Nobody's going to be like "oh yeah I'm scum and I was faking a PR and trying to set up a soft claim."

Or did you mean breadcrumb?

Ok, so here is a follow-up to the accusation. The question at the end bothers me though. Two reasons. One, it's a picky detail about his word choice. Two, it gives him a backdoor answer to your accusation. I'm starting to see a possibility at an EK-Blak scumpair.

Most important things I see going on: llama is interrogating zilla. zilla doesn't like being questioned. Hybris answers questions for zilla (when llama asked why zilla was voting PP, Hybris answered for her).

I don't mind llama asking questions. That's good. I wonder why he's not voting zilla since he seems to have a problem with her, but w/e.

I don't like Hybris jumping into the situation to answer questions for zilla. This is why: hybris already came into the game moaning about it being unserious but not doing anything to change things. Then she shows she is following along with llama/zilla argument, and even helps by reposting zilla's reasons -- but she never adds any opinions of her own. It's a pattern of unhelpfulness, and of no attempt at scum hunting.

So in this one post, you go after 3 different people. You ask why Llama isn't voting Zilla. You follow the crowd in attacking Hybris for answering a question directed at Zilla. And you go after Zilla for not adding opinions. So after Blak, who you never voted, nor did you continue or dismiss the case, you have now mentioned 4 suspects. But no vote on any of them? Waiting to see what case sticks?

LEt's not get too crazy with WIFOM. Sometimes I do use it in my own head (scum wouldn't do "x"), but I don't think it should be used as the main reason for voting a person, or even speculated on in the game too much. It's just too easy for scum to manipulate the town if they know we're open to too much WIFOM. And it leads to long distracting arguments that bore people and cause them to flake.

KMD's statement was something like "If I was scum I'd be voting zilla." I would much prefer he say why he thinks the people voting zilla are scummy or why the reasons to vote her are bad. Because that would be more rooted in argument than WIFOM.

This is a lot like the PR discussion. It's just a post about why we shouldn't use too much WIFOM. That's a very general stance that one will likely keep in any game, regardless of alignment. Again, adds nothing to the game. (For the record, I see nothing wrong with WIFOM which I may have said already.)

Trying to stop a discussion of your scummy statements by retracting them is really the scummiest thing I've seen you do.

You can't retract scummy statements. Well, I guess you can, but that doesn't stop them from being scummy when you said them.

Speculating that certain role can't be scum is inherintley flawed and makes me wonder if you have ulterior motives for wanting KMD cleared.

Can you tell me why you thought KMD role would make him town? Because I need to hear a good explanation, not a retraction.

I cut out the Zilla quote for purposes of length. This is in response to Zilla though. All this suspicion on her, YET STILL NO VOTE. Why, at this point, haven't you voted outside of joke votes? Plenty of suspects, but no votes. Not even an FoS. Is it because you don't want to draw attention to yourself?

Zilla self-voting and saying she won't post again, and then posting less than an hour later to unvote herself... is worrying to me. Self-destructing people are sometimes town and sometimes scum -- I've seen it go both ways. But the fact that she says she probably won't post again and then posts less than an hour later to unvote herself? That seems manipulative to me. Like she never meant to try to lynch herself. And the "this is probably my last post" was just a ploy.

Hybris is still scummy but zilla more.

unvote; vote zilla

Finally a Zilla vote after she starts to look like an easy enough target, and an easy enough lynch.

I've seen scum do it... just like this...

I thought WIFOM was bad...?

If I needed an excuse to vote you, I could have done it a long time ago instead of trying to get info out of you. If I'm bloodthirsty, then why are you voting hybris? You're just going to the next largest wagon, and not thinking of any of your own reasons for doing so. That way you can blame it on KMD if things go bad with hybris -- he put forth the reasoning, not you.

Ok, let's look at what is going on here. EK is getting attacked for voting Zilla. For looking for excuses to vote Zilla more specifically. Still continues attacking Zilla, but with more sniping than anything. Keep this in mind.

I understand what Charter means.

Wolf made a statement advising Hybris that answering questions for others is bad, especially if you are town. Which is the sort of thing you would say to a player THAT YOU THINK IS TOWN.

If you think the player is scum, you wouldn't be advising them how to play better as town (since you don't think they're town). If you think the player is scum, you assume they did whatever because they are scum, not because they made an error in play. You don't advise scummy players how to look more townish.

I agree with Charter. This is a tell that wolframn

thinks

hybris is town, and he is voting for someone he thinks is town.

unvote, vote wolframnhart

Did you keep it in mind? This is the NEXT post EK makes. Immediately after taking heat for the Zilla vote, EK jumps on probably the worst wagon I have ever seen. Why? Zilla's wagon was drying up, and EK needed somewhere else to go. So she jumps on this bad case.

Also, the bolded. That's not agreeing with Charter. Charter called it a slip because Wolf "knew" Hybris to be town. Not that he "thought" Hybris was town, and voted him anyway. You try to all out agree with Charter, but end up saying something completely different. This is just a bad vote.

So, I still think wolframn made a scum tell when he said "don't do "x," expecially if you're town." It's the kind of statement that seeps in if you're scum. It's the kind of thing that I try to avoid saying if I'm scum because it does tip your hand if anyone notices it.

I also am glad that zilla is contributing more, although I still have a problem with the self vote and "I'm not going to post again" statement, followed WITHIN THE HOUR with another post and an unvote. It's too manipulative.

And I agree with llama that Internet is almost purposely unhelpful.

Backing up the Wolf vote. Backing down from Zilla, but still showing some suspicion so you can go back to it later. And now calling TI unhelpful, but not elaborating or specifically calling him scummy.

I won't quote them because this is getting too long, but go back and check for it if you need to. There are 3 consecutive posts from EK defending her Wolf vote. The very next post, she unvotes and votes Puta. It's the same as her Zilla vote. Start taking heat, and switch to another easy target.

Zilla throws temper tantrum when she's very far from lynch.

Zilla self-votes and says she won't be posting any more, then unvotes less than an hour later.

Zilla dislikes Charter's case on wolframn, calls it scummy, then votes wolframn.

In addition to charter, attacking me and xtoxm with vague or nonexistent reasons. We were the ones on her wagon. Coincidence?

Still attacking Zilla, yet never revoted Zilla. It seems as though EK's top choice for a lynch is Zilla. But EK isn't voting Zilla. Why? There are easier town targets out there.

TM is definitely acting anti-town. Although, having played with him before, and lynched him as town (BM's recently completed Mystery Mafia), I can't say that anti-town manner actually means he's anti-town.

I notice llama is advocating TM or TI lynch for similar reasons. TM's anti-townness is more blatant and characteristic of his play in general, while TI is more unhelpful, and uncharacteristic of my sense of his general playstyle. Which makes me think TI would be a better lynch if it's between those two. Although TM is not a bad lynch either. Because you don't want to set a precedent in games where you allow anti-town behavior because of a meta, or whatever -- because that severely decreases your chances of finding scum when you excuse outright scumminess. Then you start to lynch people for being too-townie, and all manner of dumb things and you lose the game.

So I could go along with either of these lynches, but would still rather lynch PP or Zilla.

Manages to take the top 2 wagons here and say that both look scummy, but DOESN'T VOTE EITHER. I can see still trying to push Puta or Zilla until we are closer to the deadline. That's fine. What bothers me is that EK calls BOTH TI and TM scummy, and says she could go with a lynch on either. That's not taking a stance on one over the other until one wagon picks up more steam. It sets up a vote on whichever is needed at deadline.

Also, not a fan of this post:

I don't really see the case on TM, but then again I guess that is the point. He hasn't posted at all [exageration] and when he does post its usually something quiet scummy. So, that is the case I believe. and I can support a lynch on someone with a case like that (since he hasnt posted at all)

unvote, vote: TonyMontana

He says how he doesn't see the case, then outlines the case and says TM is quite scummy, then votes the guy. I'm not seeing where CC doesn't see the case. I think he sees it pretty well...

Something about it seems manufactured.

Same thing she did to Blak, Llama, and Hybris. Suspicions without elaborating or voting.

Later, finally does vote TI. I definitely think he was bussed by a buddy or two.

Also, I think CC never has any original thoughts. Look at his last post. He just summarizes the general consensus without even stating any strong feelings. I often see scum that will go with the flow of the game thinking that will not upset anyone and they can coast by. But it makes me suspicious if you don't have any original thoughts and/or strong feelings. Shows you aren't trying to find scum and you don't really care who dies.

Seriously, why haven't you voted him? And why did you vote NS? You said "maybe people will listen to the reasoning today." Is that still because of the "slip" that Charter "caught"?

It's also about how wolf/NS/you tried to push the wagon off TI and onto TM. There was a lot of suspect interraction between wolf and TI, and TI was scum. I think llama put some quotes up about it in case you didn't get to that part yet.

Why not mention this when you voted?

Pororchaz also an option since I think he was somewhat the same as BA (pushing TM over TI). Although I just don't buy into the truth or dare BS that KMD was talking about.

vote Blakadder

oh and MErry Christmas!

So you chose Blak over Porochaz just because I am voting Porochaz? Any other reasons why Blak and not Poro?

Short version bulleted case:
-post restriction discussion (destracting and looks like an attempt to appear to be contributing)
-active lurking
-one-liner accusation at Blak
-too much attention to detail on "breadcrumb" vs. "softclaim"
-possible connection to Blak (admittedly very weak, especially after the Day 2 vote)
-4 suspects early, yet no vote
-Votes an easy target in Zilla
-contradicts anti-WIFOM stance with a WIFOM statement.
-the Wolf vote
-acknowledges Llama's point on TI without adding much of an opinion outside of saying he is "unhelpful"
-backs down from Wolf vote after taking heat. Switches to Puta, another easy target.
-constant attacks on Zilla without revoting. Instead, stays on Wolf or Puta.
-lack of stance as soon as TM vs. TI comes up.
-small snipes at CC
-NS vote. Seems to stem from Wolf's "slip", but later mentions a TI connection.
-No apparent reason for picking Blak over Poro after considering both as options

I think I have enough here to do this.

Unvote

Vote elvis_knits

So worth dropping the restriction for the day.

[Kmd4390]

Llama, why dismiss cases on both Charter and EK just because of the lack of a connection to TI? We had 3 kills last night. I'd expect that at least 2 of those kills were anti-town kills, meaning either SK or a second scum group (probably SK).

Zilla, you realize I voted TI, not TM, right? You asked Llama for opinions on Poro, Blak, and myself, and the way it's worded, it looks like you are going after TM voters.

I played a game as a confirmed mason with Charter. Playing a game like that gives you a strong meta read on someone. You know they are town from the beginning of the game. You get a real feel for how they play as town. Charter is playing a lot like he did in that game. He took heat for it there too. I don't think Charter is scum right now. I haven't seen his scum game yet though.

Llama, I admit I used T/D wrong. I've had it explained better to me by someone from SA who was around when it was popular. I don't think it's as gamebreaking on mafiascum. Not that Poro is auto town or anything now. I just didn't use T/D right.

[Kmd4390]

Hyrbis, if you think there are better lynches, vote for one. If not, stay on TM. Voting no one doesn't help.

[Kmd4390]

So is my EK case going to be ignored?

[Kmd4390]

I'll switch if needed at deadline. I really like my EK case though.

Anyway, deadline switch if needed... Right. Of the current wagons (2-3 votes), here's the order of preference in my opinion:

1.Blakadder
2.Hybris
3.Tubby
4.ZONEACE
5.Charter

EK above all 5 of course.

[Kmd4390]

Llama, I think I have plenty to back my vote. It's been ignored. You say rejected, but I haven't seen a counter argument to it.

My opinions were made clear in my last post. If it comes down to deadline, that's my preference for the main wagons. If I just wanted any lynch right now, my vote would be on Tubby. Him and Charter have 3 votes, and I don't think Charter is scum.

I don't see why I should be voting Tubby RIGHT NOW though. If I need to, I'll switch before deadline. It looks like I probably will need to, but I don't want to see EK ignored like this.

Not sure what you'd be so pissed about. All I can think of that I've done recently is break my post restriction, make a case on EK, and list my preference on the most likely lynches. Breaking the restriction may have been needed to properly give my opinions. I presented a case on my number one suspicion, so I see no problem with that. And I think it's helpful to make my opinions clear on the main wagons. Not sure what it could be.

[Kmd4390]

Charter, what do you want me to do? Say Zone is definitely town or lying about his role? I don't believe that. I think that he could be scum even with his role.

Llama, I see your concern. I still would love to see EK lynched, but it won't happen today. Expect my vote to go there tomorrow assuming EK and myself are still alive. But for now, considering a deadline approaching...

Vote Tubby

I don't want to force a 3 way tie by voting someone with 2 votes. I don't think Charter is scum. That leaves Tubby.

[Kmd4390]

Sorry, forgot to unvote EK.

unvote, vote Tubby

What is the case on Charter? His pursuit of Wolf?

[Kmd4390]

Crap case on Wolf=pursuit of Wolf.

Tunnelvision=pursuit of Wolf.

extended BS=pursuit of Wolf.

Continuing crap case against 2 replacements=pursuit of Wolf.

As much as I disagree with his case, I don't see how he is scum for it.

[Kmd4390]

RF, either you are joking, or that's as strawman as it gets...

[Kmd4390]

vote count:

Hybris 1 vote: (bigbaldguy31)
Zilla 1 vote: (populartajo)
Puta Puta 1 vote: (Xtoxm)
TonyMontana 7 votes: (RestFermata, forbiddanlight, Nitro Styles, Porochaz, tubby, The Internet, BlakAdder)

The Internet 8 votes: (LlamaFluff, charter, CoheedCambria09, TonyMontana, Elivs knits, Zilla, Kmd4390, Knight of Cydonia)

Not voting:

So TM and TI were actually tied?

Mod, what is the tiebreaker for a deadline lynch?

In Futurama, the tiebreaker was whoever had

a

vote placed on them first would be lynched. I've gone back and checked, and if that's the case, TM should have been lynched in case of a tie.

If it's whoever reached the tie first, that's TI.

I've seen a scum double voter before too.

TBH, I think Tubby is telling the truth about being a double voter. What I'm still wondering about is his alignment.

[Kmd4390]

In case of a tie, whoever received a vote first is lynched.

What about unvotes? Does the vote have to stay on to count? Or if someone random votes and unvotes, does that count?

[Kmd4390]

Actually, TM would have been lynched either way. Either there is at least one other vote manipulator on one of the wagons, or Tubby isn't a double voter.

[Kmd4390]

Thanks Farside, that makes perfect sense.

In this case, Llama voted TI. RF voted TM. Llama later voted TM and switched back to TI. TM would have been lynched in case of a tie.

[Kmd4390]

The example of strawmanning I presented was

supposed

to be strawmanning.

Ok, my bad then. That's what I was looking at.

[Kmd4390]

Hybris, thoughts on Tubby's claim?

[Kmd4390]

Ok, Llama picked that up I guess. I know I didn't.

I agree with RF completely about Tubby. I think he is a double voter. I think he is Adam West. I have no idea if he is town or scum.

Tubby, why did you feel the need to say that you are town aligned in both of your last 2 posts?

[Kmd4390]

The assumption that goes along with a claim is that you will claim town. I don't see the need to specifically state it both when you claim AND in your next post.

And if you are town, I'd agree that 2-3 scum are probably on the wagon.

[Kmd4390]

Tajo, what makes you think Tubby would be a Godfather if he is scum?

[Kmd4390]

Clarify the reasoning please. You say additional benefit. Isn't a double vote enough benefit?

[Kmd4390]

We've already had a framer flip. He wasn't a Godfather.

[Kmd4390]

Brian: Oh, just die already.

A possible message from the mod?

She did do that last game...

[Kmd4390]

Llama, you say we get info from a ZONE lynch. What info exactly do we get? I don't disagree, I just would like to see that you know what info we are getting, and won't ignore it later if we do actually lynch ZONE.

Zilla, I see your point on Llama. I've been his scumbuddy before in a 12 player game (3 scum). He bussed both partners on Days 1 AND 2. Something about his play bothers me too. The way he is trying to control the entire game. I mean, yeah, his playstyle is a very well thought out kind of game, but to actually take everything and control it the way he has, it reminds me of his scum game.

Llama, minor thing, but I don't like when people say they are 100% sure about anything. You can't possibly be 100% sure Zone's role is "mommy" unless you are a role cop (which I'm not suggesting) or cheated (which I'm also not suggesting).

Charter, why has FL bought a ticket to endgame? And why is Llama town?

[Kmd4390]

I tend to do better when I have controll of a game (and also when I am VT). You have played with me as town before too though, I always try to be vocal regardless of alignment. People listening to you is always a plus since you have a bigger effect on the game.

Also the bus of you was because a different wagon fell through after a claim and there were no other moves at that point, but thats not a part of this game. You know that the TI wagon was not like yours in that game.

Yes, you are vocal as both scum and town. Just the way you have control reminds me of your scum game though. You have a protown style as both town and scum. The difference? You seem more confident as scum. Not sure I should tell you this because you will probably work to change it now, but that's what I see.

And the bus was understandable. I wasn't saying it was a bad move. You played an amazing game. Fact is, Fuzzy wasn't going to be lynched, and it was Fuzzy or me. If you spoke up calling me town after listing me as a #2 suspect the entire time, it would have looked scummy as hell. That was one of the best scum performances I have ever seen. I'm getting off topic now though.

[Kmd4390]

@RF - Yes AF was rolefishing a bit

too

. Your push of trying to figure out where a cop claimed was a fish too though. Then again I can find a few other instances of other people fishing, been a lot of it in this game.

Slip?

[Kmd4390]

Hah,

I actually know this and am still working on that one.

There are a few other small ones, but thats the only tell I have that I know, even if its not always constant. I used to play a lot on facebook (ugh I know), and the other people who played a lot like me could read exactly what I was D1 as I could with them, there are three standard metas for each player. More on that later.

Also the too was ment to be "like you were" since I still say RF was fishing with that comment.

The bolded is something I caught in this game based off of 628. The fact that you see it makes me think you are more likely to be scum.

[thisisofftopicsodontreaditifyoudontwantto]That's funny that you played some on facebook. I've modded a game on myspace and played one on a shared microsoft word file. Forums are much better for mafia.[/thisisofftopicsodontreaditifyoudontwantto]

Ok, looking back I see that that could apply to RF on the "too" part.

[Kmd4390]

Wait, that's what the fishing case against RF was?

How does it help scum to ask a question like that. The question was something like, "who claimed cop because I missed it?" The answer is obviously going to either be the name of a player who claimed cop, or no one claimed cop. It was a legitimate question. I was curious about the same thing.

Anyway, back to my point. How does it help scum? Ok, they can assume we have a cop. They don't know who it is. They can't kill them.

As long as no one is stupid enough to jump up and say, "Oh I'm the cop. I didn't claim though.", it's not going to help scum. And I think RF is a smart enough player to expect that no one is going to do that.

[Kmd4390]

Claims really. I was blown back by how solid ZONEACEs claim really was, I never expected it to be something that made so much sense in this game. It even answered what I was trying to figure out in the terms of the

"why did KoC just flip 'Daddy' while xtoxm flipped with a specific role".

I took it as a strong claim, while still thinking what wolf/NS had done was scummy, I moved onto someone else who was scummy, plus was part of a scumgroup I had mapped out.

We saw this last game too. I was a cop and flipped "Hot Mama".

[Kmd4390]

ZONEACE is the logical choice for me then. I get quite a bit of information to help bolster my reads on charter, kmd and EK amung others who were on that wagon.

When was I on the wagon?

[Kmd4390]

The New Year kept me away until now[/excuse] I'll catch up tonight or tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

I was increasingly sure of him being

town

scum due to

most

of the players on his wagon giving me town reads

Faulty logic.

Town will vote for town. The game works that way. You know this though. What you are trying to say is that if he were town, scum would jump on the wagon too. But town reads on "most" of the players? Well, what about the others? Could they be scum? And could some of your town reads be wrong too? The answer to both is yes.

Worst post of the game so far, especially the bolded bit, in particular the underlined bit. Zoneace quiet, wrong. Considering he was favourite to lynch based mainly (not totally) off your

really crap

wording case and its gone because he claimed something

legitimate

and hasnt been counterclaimed, I think thats fair, hmmm? He screams and bitches, well isnt that Zoneace anyway? Besides from that, how is that scummy.

Would you honestly expect a counter claim if ZONE is scum?

And the third one, while I wasn't 'buddying up', is null in any case because that was after your vote on me and if you can't provide any sort of reasoning for your vote on me from before I voted you, which I'm pretty sure you aren't able to, then you voted me for essentially no reason. And I think thats pretty scummy.

Nice strawman.

Vote count:

tubby 5 vote: (Hybris, forbiddanlight, Kmd4390, Elivs knits, populartajo)

Hybris 4 vote: (RestFermata, LlamaFluff, tubby216, Zilla)

[/color]

Notice Hybris red here. Hybris actually has 5 votes with Tubby's double vote. Tubby has 4 with FL's vote not counting.

Anyway, I'm starting to think less and less that Tubby is scum, and I'm starting to think more and more that a Hybris-Llama scum team is likely. Llama does bus as scum. He'll try for a town lynch first, but won't risk looking scummy in order for it to happen. Hybris just looks terrible lately. Also, my EK case still stands.

So, my vote being on Tubby would contradict my thoughts at this point.

Unvote Tubby.
Vote Hybris

[Kmd4390]

Worst post of the game so far, especially the bolded bit, in particular the underlined bit. Zoneace quiet, wrong. Considering he was favourite to lynch based mainly (not totally) off your

really crap

wording case and its gone because he claimed something

legitimate

and hasnt been counterclaimed, I think thats fair, hmmm? He screams and bitches, well isnt that Zoneace anyway? Besides from that, how is that scummy.

Would you honestly expect a counter claim if ZONE is scum?

I would expect something considering we have a mother. Granted role might not be indicitive of alignment but I think we can be pretty sure that Zoneace is town.

I don't expect any counter if he is scum. He could easily tell the truth about his character without being honest about his alignment.

[Kmd4390]

I'll ask again. Is the Charter case just based on his pursuit of Wolf?

[Kmd4390]

I really want to hear from kmd

What do you want to hear? I see no reason to try and run up another wagon after a vanilla claim.

[Kmd4390]

I really want to hear from kmd

What do you want to hear? I see no reason to try and run up another wagon after a vanilla claim.

what about charter?

For his pursuit of Wolf? No thanks.

[Kmd4390]

I really want to hear from kmd

What do you want to hear? I see no reason to try and run up another wagon after a vanilla claim.

what about charter?

For his pursuit of Wolf? No thanks.

Did you read the big long post? May I suggest reading it with the list of his posts by the side of it. Then you can go "oh yeah, he hasnt done anything else all sixty something pages of this game!"

Your case still stems from his pursuit of Wolf. That's it. I saw him do the same with Nameless in Gurgi's Tranquility game. I knew him to be town that game because we were confirmed masons. Not the slip part. The whole "I've got my scum, lynch him then maybe I'll look somewhere else" thing.

[Kmd4390]

Not the same.

Well let's look at it.

Did he catch Nameless on 4 words?

No. He caught him on naming too many suspects and then did what he could to make anything else Nameless did look scummy.

Did he do absolutely nothing else all day?

Basically. He looked at another player or two, but mostly based on connections to Nameless.

Did he attach himself onto a wagon as soon as he saw it wasnt going to work out?

After a double cop claim, he voted the actual cop partly based on connections to Nameless, who was still alive. I admit I voted the same way as he did on the cop claim.

Did he act all emotionally when anyone attacked him and called them scum straight away?

Yes. Exaggeration was a major point against him.

Did you read my post, regarding this? I mean all of it, its a hard slog I know and I would be put off myself from reading it but really, it is a solid case and deserves to be looked at properly. Even looking at his response you can see he's defending himself poorly...

I understand your case, but I really do disagree with it. Charter's town game is once he finds scum, or thinks he finds scum, all he wants is that player lynched. He doesn't care how scummy he looks. If that player is lynched, he served his purpose.

Please, look, see that its not just about wolf, but the whole game. The wolf part forms a big part of it, but thats only because of the relentlessness without the exansion. Its definetly not all of it. Ive summarised some of it above but really you need to look at my post along with all his. Ive referenced each post in my one so to make it east for you.

I realize the entie case isn't just "He called out Wolf for a slip", but everything does

stem

from that. Until someone shows something that I see as scummy, I disagree with the case.

[Kmd4390]

Hybris' claim is why I wanted to hear more from kmd. We have a heavily post restricted Tom and a Vanilla Diane, this doesnt make a lot of sense to me, and I have this wierd feeling that there is something more to this connection then meets the eye. I really hate to start speculating (actually I love it since it gives me role ideas for future games) but one of my first reactions was lyncher/lynchee, which is why I wanted to see kmd react to the claim of Diane. I dont think this is what we are dealing with but kmd voting for Hybris just sits poorly with me.

Ohh. The Diane part. Understandable. As far as I know, there is no role connection between myself and Diane (Hybris). Not sure what to say to the lyncher thing. The only defense I really can use is "You're wrong", which you are.

[Kmd4390]

we know self-aligned is in this game

We do?

[Kmd4390]

Well, I tried. I sucked way too much to really help, but I tried. Good luck without me, and kill the FCC bastards.

*Dies*

Purpose for this post?

[Kmd4390]

can anyone point me to claims that have been made before the day ends?

You should do this on your own, but it's best for the town that you know.

ZONEACE- Bonnie-searching masonish role. Had to find Joe in order to bring a "baby" into the game.

Tubby- Adam West- Double Vote

Hybris- Diane- Double Vote

FL- Voteless.

And obviously you claimed Greased Up Deaf Guy- Vanilla.

Did I miss any?

[Kmd4390]

Either that or mafia gets two kills or there are two mafia or there are two vigilantes.

I really don't like Hybris' pre-death bah post. :/

In Farside's Futurama game, I was scum and had 2 extra kills that I could use either at night or during the day. I never ended up having to use them, but they were there. Also, 2 pro-town killing roles is possible. I'll admit SK is the most likely possibility, but we don't "know" that self-aligned roles are in the game.

And I don't like the "bah" post either...

[Kmd4390]

ok then kmd, lets look at it this way. If all game he does the same are you never going to vote him even though at the very least the way hes playing is so anti town that its hurting the town really badly and is to arrogant to see it? Because at best this what is happening now. At worst he is scum playing really badly and getting away with murder.

If I still feel he is town, no I won't vote him. I am against lynching any player who I think is town, even if their play is anti-town. While his play may not be the best, mafia is also a numbers game. If he is town, his death would hurt us.

Now if something comes up to show that he is more likely to be scum, I'm with you on the lynch. I just don't see that yet.

[Kmd4390]

hybris isn't a doublevoter, she claimed vanilla...

My bad, not sure how I did that.

can anyone point me to claims that have been made before the day ends?

You should do this on your own, but it's best for the town that you know.

ZONEACE- Bonnie-searching masonish role. Had to find Joe in order to bring a "baby" into the game.

Tubby- Adam West- Double Vote

Hybris- Diane-

Vanilla

FL- Voteless.

And obviously you claimed Greased Up Deaf Guy- Vanilla.

Did I miss any?

Fixed.

TM, this is correct now.

[Kmd4390]

Tom Tucker reporting live with excitement....err....sadness regarding my partner's death. I'd like to officially report that I was not a lyncher or anything similar, and in no way gained anything from Hybris's death.

Our crew is investigating the vampire kittens. If anyone has any information on this, they should call us or just post here saying what they may know about vampire kittens in Family Guy. (OMG ADAM WEST? CAT LAUNCHER ETC?)

[Kmd4390]

Vote LlamaFluff

Bring back recent new stories and saying that Llama's game seems to match his scum meta. In other news, I'm confortable laying a vote on him.

[Kmd4390]

"Daddy" could mean anything. In the mini, I was Lois- "Hot Mama". That's it. And I was actually a cop. No one knew until endgame.

TM, Stewie was inventor, not cop.

I actually am starting to see ZONEscum as a possibility.

Don't forget my EK case.

[Kmd4390]

Don't forget my EK case.

Oh, should I respond to it? I don't even remember what was in it.

Probably a good idea.

Ok, building a case with a post restriction is hard, so I'm going to go without it again. I feel like the restriction is forcing me to not say as much as I'd normally like to. I don't agree with the cases on Zone, Charter, Nitro, or TM. I'm getting a scummy read off of EK. Here's my case:

I don't think charter really has a post restriction. Faking it is probably just a joke.

On closer examination, looks like just KMD with it, and Tom style restriction...Or one of them, anyway. Charter's quote made me think what I said before.

I wonder what he meant when he said you're wrong.

I guess, it's just that I can't see KMD being other than Tom and I can't see KMD knowing what role Charter has.

Let's just try to adhere to this:

Non post restricted people should neither be acting like they have post restrictions or acting like characters. It will only manage to end badly.

These are consecutive posts. Nothing between them. Nothing taken out of any of them. EK is discussing the post restriction(s) and nothing else. Why is this scummy? It does nothing as far as scum hunting (why I do always get the typo of scum "hinting"?) and is a way to still participate. Scum jump on things like this all the time. It's just like in a newbie game where a theory discussion comes up, and a scum IC jumps all over it to look like a key contributor when they are actually doing nothing for the town. That's what I'm reminded of with all of this post restriction discussion. Not that it's bad to discuss at first, but some scum hunting around that time would be nice.

One more question. If it is fake, where you attempting to make a soft claim to reference later?

This question seems loaded.

Now this is still about the post restriction, but is starting to go somewhere. Except why not elaborate on the question being loaded? Why not call Blak scummy for it? Just a one liner accusation isn't going to get much attention. But again, you are posting, so you aren't lurking.

Soft claims are scummy. Nobody's going to be like "oh yeah I'm scum and I was faking a PR and trying to set up a soft claim."

Or did you mean breadcrumb?

Ok, so here is a follow-up to the accusation. The question at the end bothers me though. Two reasons. One, it's a picky detail about his word choice. Two, it gives him a backdoor answer to your accusation. I'm starting to see a possibility at an EK-Blak scumpair.

Most important things I see going on: llama is interrogating zilla. zilla doesn't like being questioned. Hybris answers questions for zilla (when llama asked why zilla was voting PP, Hybris answered for her).

I don't mind llama asking questions. That's good. I wonder why he's not voting zilla since he seems to have a problem with her, but w/e.

I don't like Hybris jumping into the situation to answer questions for zilla. This is why: hybris already came into the game moaning about it being unserious but not doing anything to change things. Then she shows she is following along with llama/zilla argument, and even helps by reposting zilla's reasons -- but she never adds any opinions of her own. It's a pattern of unhelpfulness, and of no attempt at scum hunting.

So in this one post, you go after 3 different people. You ask why Llama isn't voting Zilla. You follow the crowd in attacking Hybris for answering a question directed at Zilla. And you go after Zilla for not adding opinions. So after Blak, who you never voted, nor did you continue or dismiss the case, you have now mentioned 4 suspects. But no vote on any of them? Waiting to see what case sticks?

LEt's not get too crazy with WIFOM. Sometimes I do use it in my own head (scum wouldn't do "x"), but I don't think it should be used as the main reason for voting a person, or even speculated on in the game too much. It's just too easy for scum to manipulate the town if they know we're open to too much WIFOM. And it leads to long distracting arguments that bore people and cause them to flake.

KMD's statement was something like "If I was scum I'd be voting zilla." I would much prefer he say why he thinks the people voting zilla are scummy or why the reasons to vote her are bad. Because that would be more rooted in argument than WIFOM.

This is a lot like the PR discussion. It's just a post about why we shouldn't use too much WIFOM. That's a very general stance that one will likely keep in any game, regardless of alignment. Again, adds nothing to the game. (For the record, I see nothing wrong with WIFOM which I may have said already.)

Trying to stop a discussion of your scummy statements by retracting them is really the scummiest thing I've seen you do.

You can't retract scummy statements. Well, I guess you can, but that doesn't stop them from being scummy when you said them.

Speculating that certain role can't be scum is inherintley flawed and makes me wonder if you have ulterior motives for wanting KMD cleared.

Can you tell me why you thought KMD role would make him town? Because I need to hear a good explanation, not a retraction.

I cut out the Zilla quote for purposes of length. This is in response to Zilla though. All this suspicion on her, YET STILL NO VOTE. Why, at this point, haven't you voted outside of joke votes? Plenty of suspects, but no votes. Not even an FoS. Is it because you don't want to draw attention to yourself?

Zilla self-voting and saying she won't post again, and then posting less than an hour later to unvote herself... is worrying to me. Self-destructing people are sometimes town and sometimes scum -- I've seen it go both ways. But the fact that she says she probably won't post again and then posts less than an hour later to unvote herself? That seems manipulative to me. Like she never meant to try to lynch herself. And the "this is probably my last post" was just a ploy.

Hybris is still scummy but zilla more.

unvote; vote zilla

Finally a Zilla vote after she starts to look like an easy enough target, and an easy enough lynch.

I've seen scum do it... just like this...

I thought WIFOM was bad...?

If I needed an excuse to vote you, I could have done it a long time ago instead of trying to get info out of you. If I'm bloodthirsty, then why are you voting hybris? You're just going to the next largest wagon, and not thinking of any of your own reasons for doing so. That way you can blame it on KMD if things go bad with hybris -- he put forth the reasoning, not you.

Ok, let's look at what is going on here. EK is getting attacked for voting Zilla. For looking for excuses to vote Zilla more specifically. Still continues attacking Zilla, but with more sniping than anything. Keep this in mind.

I understand what Charter means.

Wolf made a statement advising Hybris that answering questions for others is bad, especially if you are town. Which is the sort of thing you would say to a player THAT YOU THINK IS TOWN.

If you think the player is scum, you wouldn't be advising them how to play better as town (since you don't think they're town). If you think the player is scum, you assume they did whatever because they are scum, not because they made an error in play. You don't advise scummy players how to look more townish.

I agree with Charter. This is a tell that wolframn

thinks

hybris is town, and he is voting for someone he thinks is town.

unvote, vote wolframnhart

Did you keep it in mind? This is the NEXT post EK makes. Immediately after taking heat for the Zilla vote, EK jumps on probably the worst wagon I have ever seen. Why? Zilla's wagon was drying up, and EK needed somewhere else to go. So she jumps on this bad case.

Also, the bolded. That's not agreeing with Charter. Charter called it a slip because Wolf "knew" Hybris to be town. Not that he "thought" Hybris was town, and voted him anyway. You try to all out agree with Charter, but end up saying something completely different. This is just a bad vote.

So, I still think wolframn made a scum tell when he said "don't do "x," expecially if you're town." It's the kind of statement that seeps in if you're scum. It's the kind of thing that I try to avoid saying if I'm scum because it does tip your hand if anyone notices it.

I also am glad that zilla is contributing more, although I still have a problem with the self vote and "I'm not going to post again" statement, followed WITHIN THE HOUR with another post and an unvote. It's too manipulative.

And I agree with llama that Internet is almost purposely unhelpful.

Backing up the Wolf vote. Backing down from Zilla, but still showing some suspicion so you can go back to it later. And now calling TI unhelpful, but not elaborating or specifically calling him scummy.

I won't quote them because this is getting too long, but go back and check for it if you need to. There are 3 consecutive posts from EK defending her Wolf vote. The very next post, she unvotes and votes Puta. It's the same as her Zilla vote. Start taking heat, and switch to another easy target.

Zilla throws temper tantrum when she's very far from lynch.

Zilla self-votes and says she won't be posting any more, then unvotes less than an hour later.

Zilla dislikes Charter's case on wolframn, calls it scummy, then votes wolframn.

In addition to charter, attacking me and xtoxm with vague or nonexistent reasons. We were the ones on her wagon. Coincidence?

Still attacking Zilla, yet never revoted Zilla. It seems as though EK's top choice for a lynch is Zilla. But EK isn't voting Zilla. Why? There are easier town targets out there.

TM is definitely acting anti-town. Although, having played with him before, and lynched him as town (BM's recently completed Mystery Mafia), I can't say that anti-town manner actually means he's anti-town.

I notice llama is advocating TM or TI lynch for similar reasons. TM's anti-townness is more blatant and characteristic of his play in general, while TI is more unhelpful, and uncharacteristic of my sense of his general playstyle. Which makes me think TI would be a better lynch if it's between those two. Although TM is not a bad lynch either. Because you don't want to set a precedent in games where you allow anti-town behavior because of a meta, or whatever -- because that severely decreases your chances of finding scum when you excuse outright scumminess. Then you start to lynch people for being too-townie, and all manner of dumb things and you lose the game.

So I could go along with either of these lynches, but would still rather lynch PP or Zilla.

Manages to take the top 2 wagons here and say that both look scummy, but DOESN'T VOTE EITHER. I can see still trying to push Puta or Zilla until we are closer to the deadline. That's fine. What bothers me is that EK calls BOTH TI and TM scummy, and says she could go with a lynch on either. That's not taking a stance on one over the other until one wagon picks up more steam. It sets up a vote on whichever is needed at deadline.

Also, not a fan of this post:

I don't really see the case on TM, but then again I guess that is the point. He hasn't posted at all [exageration] and when he does post its usually something quiet scummy. So, that is the case I believe. and I can support a lynch on someone with a case like that (since he hasnt posted at all)

unvote, vote: TonyMontana

He says how he doesn't see the case, then outlines the case and says TM is quite scummy, then votes the guy. I'm not seeing where CC doesn't see the case. I think he sees it pretty well...

Something about it seems manufactured.

Same thing she did to Blak, Llama, and Hybris. Suspicions without elaborating or voting.

Later, finally does vote TI. I definitely think he was bussed by a buddy or two.

Also, I think CC never has any original thoughts. Look at his last post. He just summarizes the general consensus without even stating any strong feelings. I often see scum that will go with the flow of the game thinking that will not upset anyone and they can coast by. But it makes me suspicious if you don't have any original thoughts and/or strong feelings. Shows you aren't trying to find scum and you don't really care who dies.

Seriously, why haven't you voted him? And why did you vote NS? You said "maybe people will listen to the reasoning today." Is that still because of the "slip" that Charter "caught"?

It's also about how wolf/NS/you tried to push the wagon off TI and onto TM. There was a lot of suspect interraction between wolf and TI, and TI was scum. I think llama put some quotes up about it in case you didn't get to that part yet.

Why not mention this when you voted?

Pororchaz also an option since I think he was somewhat the same as BA (pushing TM over TI). Although I just don't buy into the truth or dare BS that KMD was talking about.

vote Blakadder

oh and MErry Christmas!

So you chose Blak over Porochaz just because I am voting Porochaz? Any other reasons why Blak and not Poro?

Short version bulleted case:
-post restriction discussion (destracting and looks like an attempt to appear to be contributing)
-active lurking
-one-liner accusation at Blak
-too much attention to detail on "breadcrumb" vs. "softclaim"
-possible connection to Blak (admittedly very weak, especially after the Day 2 vote)
-4 suspects early, yet no vote
-Votes an easy target in Zilla
-contradicts anti-WIFOM stance with a WIFOM statement.
-the Wolf vote
-acknowledges Llama's point on TI without adding much of an opinion outside of saying he is "unhelpful"
-backs down from Wolf vote after taking heat. Switches to Puta, another easy target.
-constant attacks on Zilla without revoting. Instead, stays on Wolf or Puta.
-lack of stance as soon as TM vs. TI comes up.
-small snipes at CC
-NS vote. Seems to stem from Wolf's "slip", but later mentions a TI connection.
-No apparent reason for picking Blak over Poro after considering both as options

I think I have enough here to do this.

Unvote

Vote elvis_knits

So worth dropping the restriction for the day.

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd: What penalty do you incur for breaking your PR?

Dont answer this yet. We will get to it if needed.

Better questions

1) What is your PR exactly?
2) Do you get strikes or is it one slip and you are done for the day?
3) Was breaking your PR yesterday worth it to you?

I'll respond to this post because I'd rather not answer Blak's question yet. Not that it's a huge deal, but big enough that I don't want to do it.

1) To make every post a news report. (hopefully that isn't quoting anything. Haven't seen my role PM in a while so I should be ok.)
2) One slip= done.
3) Yes.


Zilla, no harm answering these IMO. And if you forget something you already said, go look it up. None of your posts have been deleted or anything.

[Kmd4390]

Tubby, who else are you suspicious of?

[Kmd4390]

Llama OR Zone, EK, Blak, and Acid OR Coheed are scum if there are 4 more. Poro OR Zilla is SK. Tubby, TM, Charter, and Tajo are town.

Anyone want to disagree or argue with any of that?

[Kmd4390]

Zilla, these are just my opinions. EK and Blak aren't confirmed scum in any way. My opinion is that both are scum though, and I'd be ok lynching either. The reason why I assumed myself town is because what I listed are my opinions. I obviously know myself to be town.

[Kmd4390]

Leading suspects. General scum feel and lack of connections. I have nothing solid behind it.

[Kmd4390]

I guess he still thinks its me due to the No in the truth or dare game. Of course its a tradition that kmd finds me scummy in any game we play in together.

T/D was done wrong. I screwed it up.

And yes, I tend to find you scummy normally. I even call you scum when I'm scum. I'm trying to be more careful of this because I don't think I've seen you as scum yet.

[Kmd4390]

CoheedCambria09 has requested replacement. Wish me luck. [/color]

Good luck.

[Kmd4390]

(Not using quotes for purposes of making this shorter and more reader friendly.)

You could have gone harder on BA if you wanted him to talk.

No, I don't consider you a lurker. You are posting plenty.

It looked like BA was one of your only suspects early in the game. The way you didn't go very hard on him looks more like distancing than anything.

You say you were voting Hybris at the time of your post that I mentioned brought you to 4 suspects. I just looked at your post history, and don't see a Hybris vote. If I'm missing it, please quote it and give me the post number.

I'm not calling you scum for not using FoS. I'm calling you scum for questioning 4 people without voting ANY of them. (Including Hybris as mentioned above.) The most you've done is mention suspicions at that point in the game.

I don't care how long it took in real life time to vote Zilla. I'm saying you kept questioning Zilla, and others, and never voted them until this point.

You said WIFOM was bad, and then used it yourself. THAT is my point.

The "excuse" thing, I think you are missing the point. You were mentioning Zilla as almost a back of your mind thought in several posts. Like an, "I want Zilla lynched, but that's not important right now" kind of thing. You jump off the wagon just because you are being attacked for it.

Yes, I disagree about Wolf's "slip". No, that's not what makes you scummy. It's the way you made a case, got attacked for it, and immediately jumped on the next possible wagon. It's like, "Oh crap, people don't like my vote." *Switch wagons*

Then you do the same with Puta after people question you for voting Wolf. And again, you are misunderstanding my points. What I am saying is that when you start to take heat for your actions, you do something else. If you truly believe in the case you are pursuing, try and show it. Keep pursuing it. Show what you think. Don't tell the town what we want to hear, tell the town what you think is right.

How is my point unsupported? You are sniping at Zilla, but you only vote the easy targets. Wolf and Puta are examples of this. That is supporting my point.

If TM and TI both looked scummy at that point, why were you still voting Puta? And your argument that you voted TI over TM is exactly the argument scum who bussed would use. That point in your defense is null at best. I'm not using it as a point against you though. My point against you is that you call both players being wagoned scummy and don't vote either.

Let me ask you this. What do you think of Blak and CC now? Do they seem scummy to you? Would your opinion of them change if a wagon formed on them?

The fact that you stuck to TI means nothing. I once made the deciding vote on a scumbuddy on Day 1. He was lynched and the town saw me as town after he flipped scum. It's a great move for scum. So again, null.

Yes, you obviously can only vote one person. Can you answer the question though? Why were you voting Nitro over CC? Because other people were?

Llama's point or not, it was enough to back your opinions. It's worth mentioning. Or are you saying Llama made the point after you voted? Because that would explain it.

And again, the Wolf "slip" is not a tell on you or even Charter. It's just a dumb point that I disagree with.

So, the remaining points (with some changes):
-one-liner accusation at Blak
-too much attention to detail on "breadcrumb" vs. "softclaim"
-possible connection to Blak
-4 suspects early, yet no vote
-Votes an easy target in Zilla and then backs off of it when taking heat
-contradicts anti-WIFOM stance with a WIFOM statement.
-the Wolf vote
-backs down from Wolf vote after taking heat. Switches to Puta, another easy target.
-constant attacks on Zilla without revoting. Instead, stays on Wolf or Puta.
-lack of stance as soon as TM vs. TI comes up.
-small snipes at CC
-No apparent reason for picking Blak over Poro after considering both as options

And I'd really like your opinions on Blak and CC.

[Kmd4390]

I've done it on all 3 days, and yes there is a negative effect for it, but it's actually worth it IMO. Some people may disagree with me, but we'll discuss that at endgame.

[Kmd4390]

If enough people would like me to, I'll explain.

[Kmd4390]

If enough people would like me to, I'll explain.

Understand that it would require claiming though.

[Kmd4390]

It's not fishing. It's understandable.

[Kmd4390]

If it were fake, I'd pretty much have to be scum. Why would town fake a PR. Actually, why would scum break a PR only to break it on 3 consecutive days? I see no reason why anyone would want to fake a PR unless they are scum hiding behind it for the entire game as a way to not have to contribute. If anyone thinks I'm doing that, they aren't playing attention.

If everyone wants me to claim, I will. But I don't see why we need to keep getting distracted like this.

[Kmd4390]

I said only scum would fake it. And if they did, they'd stick to it for the entire game.

I am not faking the PR though.

[Kmd4390]

I said only scum would fake it. And if they did, they'd stick to it for the entire game.

Unless their memory failed them on occasion.

Then they could say something like 3 strikes a day and they are modkilled or something.

Ok, this is going to be a distraction unless I do this. If I break the PR, I lose my night action. I think my night action is kind of weak anyway, so I try to get it, but if I feel the need to make a real post, I'll make the sacrafice to post normal. So I haven't been able to use my night action at all. That's it.

[Kmd4390]

The PR seems easy, but I found myself commenting sparingly under it which is NOT good play and is never something I like to do.

And the most I will get from the PR is the same as I can get in thread.

Ok, I've said enough that I might as well fullclaim.

Tom Tucker, News Reporter. Must post as if I'm reporting news. If I don't, I lose my night action. My night action is that I can ask a player 2 questions at night. I can't ask about their role or alignment. So basically, the most I can ask is things I'd ask in thread anyway.

Not sure how you can say I'm not playing to win. I'm essentially playing as vanilla and I think I've done a good job of getting my opinions out.