Open 845 | 09:12 [Game Over]

[The Muffin Man]

Sup

VOTE: malc

[The Muffin Man]

Pretty sure Malc is an imposter, not enough swearing

[The Muffin Man]

Malcolm is actually scum if you want to not get distracted arguing about whether or not outing two conftown day one is a good idea

can't tell if serious

also STD entrance = bad

[The Muffin Man]

andante, camping page tops instead of leaving them for players is very bm

[The Muffin Man]

wagon?

VOTE: std

[The Muffin Man]

generally dislike a contentless first post when something is already happening, dislike the shade on house for the claim based on the justification of a fake claim in grand idea which, as he's already mentioned, is a pretty apples to oranges comparison to base anything on when it comes to play

[The Muffin Man]

also the specific language bugged me

"I can see house lying about this as scum"

it's not actually calling house a liar about it but it leaves the door very open to transition into that position later while suggesting to people that he might be lying

like non-confrontational shade

[The Muffin Man]

it felt awkward for you to first make a completely disjointed joke post but then to transition immediately to talking about the claim

[The Muffin Man]

bc we also have a claimed town rb ?

[The Muffin Man]

ooh the omgus

watch it flow

[The Muffin Man]

what?

[The Muffin Man]

this is essentially mountainous, the claim makes sense for that setup as maf role cop's utility is totally negated by the roles being outed and coordinating becomes more valuable than keeping it ducked

[The Muffin Man]

Both Dwlee & StD treating claims from 2 known shitposters as 100% legit...

so you're lying then?

[The Muffin Man]

bro if I'm wrong why are you so upset over what should just be an early d1 shitpush to you

[The Muffin Man]

also, like, chill? I've called you scum but there's no need to be insulting on a personal level

[The Muffin Man]

ty

if I'm misreading things then I'll prob be able to get there in a bit

so far you've pinged me the most from what we've had

[The Muffin Man]

sorry if I pissed you off, I'm just looking to have a chill time and lim some scum

[The Muffin Man]

whoops, I forgot about this

I'll get round to this properly this evening but for now VOTE: galron

[The Muffin Man]

thats E-1, please someoen unvote so we can maintain discussion time for now

What else needs to be discussed

[The Muffin Man]

Gimme til tomorrow to actually catch up but from after the flips

[me]
[malc]
[dwlee]
[frog]
[koba!slot]
[N_M]
[Galron]

[The Muffin Man]

Tbf i would also lowkey be down to kill N_M

Galron just scummier tho, so if we have the votes...

[The Muffin Man]

Not meaning literally rn obviously

[The Muffin Man]

Okay I gots to bounce again, if u want me to focus on anything when I catch up then lmk right under this post

I’ll check it befor I get to it

[The Muffin Man]

Huh

Well that was easy

VOTE: dwlee

[The Muffin Man]

so I mean... in what way is that argument not equally applicable to me re:killing the conftown?

whereas viewed overall this is clearly an easier ELO for you than the alternative, but in particular this is a much worse ELO for me than the alternative

like frog was already susp of you, and was more active than me/more likely to be perceived as town, bringing malc instead is just throwing

my guess is that you weren't sure if you were making progress on frog and you weren't sure where I'd go, whereas I'm prob an easier target and this way you knew exactly who you'd be playing against

[The Muffin Man]

anyway @malc whatever dwlee or I say today should be taken with a big pinch of caution and tbh you should base the decision more on prior days/actions than the talking element today

that being said, if you do want me to clarify anything lmk but I think it's fairly obviously dwlee

[The Muffin Man]

Given you hadn't expressed a read by virtue of not being around at all yesterday, I have no reason to not at least try bringing frog here in case you scumread them over me. The only perspective it makes sense to bring conftown to ELO is when you know everyone's positions: which only you could have as scum because, again, you weren't around yesterday

this makes zero sense and totally disregards my ability to read up overnight? also we'll pick up on this later, but I think it's disingenuous to not think that my reads would change from pre-Galron-or-NM-flips after those both came round -- but I never got the chance to talk about either until now

I also buried NM yesterday by pointing out how Malcolm being roleblocked is essentially a guilty on NM

NM was going down yesterday regardless of what you did, and your play around him was in no way clearing -- firstly because ofc scum are bussing there) and the speed of your vote actually was antitown bc it let NM drop the self and end day early, which is actually v convenient when you wanna, let's say, target someone who hasn't posted before they get a chance to

Yeah I was faking, half to try and draw the NK, half for shiggles. Koba kill is... interesting. It feels like a wifom kill but why would scum not want the dwlee-Koba conflict in ELo?

Also this post is like hard leaning in to trying to mislim me

mmmm

Gimme til tomorrow to actually catch up but from after the flips

[me]
[malc]
[dwlee]
[frog]
[koba!slot]
[N_M]
[Galron]

Your argument is actually hella contradictory too now that I look at your reads! You say frogs was obviously town so I wouldn't bring him, but if I were scum and was looking for who to bring to ELO... you had frogs lower than me. You didn't even remember your own fake read

this is also bad, and I think speaks to how you're trying to narrativise this and engage without good faith

my reads have obviously changed, and I think it was p easy to predict that frog would go up in reads --> he was consistently applying pressure to NM on d2 and was the hardest pusher on D3 when the flip happened. I think that given that you were also gonna have to go for the bussing play, you didn't want to go against frog who you'd have to also argue he'd bussed too when he was looking better than you in the interactions between the two

Like why would I bring conftown instead of "nonconftown that townread me over frog"

It's -EV in two ways

And last quoted post by Frogs is Koba saying I'm ic levels of town

So for me to be scum I
1.) Didn't shoot conftown
2.) Shot a person with momentum to townread me
3.) Shot a person that was more scumread than me by the last remaining townie
4.) Didn't shoot conftown???

Like what?

in reference to these three posts:
again, your entire argument for me being scum is that I apparently would do these things? which I'm assuming is based on this being a new account, but I'm quite obviously not a new player

but yah, your entire pitch here fails to account for why I don't just shoot the conftown (when a frog/dwlee/me endgame doubles my odds of getting a vote on town and I only close down my options while still having to 1v1 there if scum so.... it's like ???? as an explanation for me either)

you're arguing that frog had momentum to TR you --> I don't think his engaging with you is the same thing as "momentum to TR", it's just part of assessing? I certainly don't think that based on his final posts you'd have had any sort of confidence that you had brought him round enough for him not to insta-vote you

and for the 3rd bit again that you'd have to be assuming my reads were unchanged and I don't think that's something you realistically think if being honest

[The Muffin Man]

Mod said I have to post content or whatever so here's a readslist

Spoiler:

F

r

o

g

s

t

e

r

k

i

n

g

M

a

l

c

o

l

m

T

u

c

k

e

r

T

h

e

M

u

f

f

i

n

M

a

n

D

k

K

o

b

a

D

w

l

e

e

9

9

G

a

l

r

o

n

N

o

t

_

M

a

f

i

a

Not that NM's read list here exactly went into detail, but I don't see why they put their teammate so high up. Also don't believe NM would jump onto the final vote of an initial bandwagon started by his teammate, personally feels a bit too obvious.

My only concern re MM is that they did push that initial bandwagon but have been largely quiet riding the game out since then without much suspicion. There's a certain convenience to that, but we'd have to be extremely unlucky statistically for my role check on MM to end up being mafia as opposed to townie.

okay i'm ngl, not sure i should mention this but:

NM would 100% hammer in any circumstance and you shouldn't be clearing me off that

also your check on me should be disregarded now that we know that NM was rb. mechanically dwlee and I are equally likely, you need to base your decision here on play

[The Muffin Man]

Like he completely sets up this interaction:
Make Koba scumread me by saying I'm not a power role -> kill koba -> try to frame me for the kill.

you don't get points for killing people who have SR you then getting out in front by saying that it's a frame job homie

[The Muffin Man]

But also, yea, muffin has been coasting off nothing for three days.

also I'm trying to get out of the multipost habit but:

this is exactly why dwlee brings me to elo. he can't easily pin down on why I'm scummy, so he's focusing on lack of activity (which if you wanna try to explain why that's scummy as opposed to NAI, go for it) and trying really hard to build a narrative of why I would choose this Elo and he wouldn't (despite the fact that all the reasons for him not choosing it apply just as much to me if not more so)

anyway, malc, is this helpful or nah? I can be around and respond to dwlee if you like, if you wanna ask me about what I was thinking at certain points in the game I can do that insofar as I remember, but like lowkey idk if any of that really makes choosing easier and I stand by the fact that highest accuracy in elo comes from looking at past days (the main reason why I'm even talking today is bc I know my content has been low and therefore I figure it might be harder to base a choice just off that)

[The Muffin Man]

gg all

thanks for modding, andante

@malc, for what it’s worth that was a tough spot to be in. I do think that generally elo decisions are best made on the strength only of prior days but the other thing to consider is whether a player is the kind who tends more towards playing mechanically (a la our charming co-mod S_S) or someone who likes to set up a particular endgame and play for that (more my style, but obv it was impossible for you to know that at the time)