Mini 697: Prisoner's Dilemma Mafia {Game Over!}

[Albert B. Rampage]

confirmed with extreme prejudice

[Albert B. Rampage]

So yeah, I made this big post before on how to break the game, but it got deleted. I'll do the quick version here.

THE PLAN:

Elect arbitrarily* 2 players, X1 and Y1, to send to prison. They are to answer NO to the question. They are both to choose cop investigation the next day. They are to investigate each other.

If they find each other innocent, they are sent to prison again the next day. They again answer NO, and pick cop investigation. They then proceed to investigate another player of the town (both have to investigate the same person). This process is repeated until scum is found.

Upon positive investigation result, X1 and Y1 are sent to prison again. They are again to answer NO to the question, but this time they are pick to the daykill and target the found scum the following day. This process is repeated until the daykill goes through.

Provision 1, if one of X1-Y1 is found dead after a night in prison, a different couple of player, X2 and Y2, shall be elected to be sent to prison, they are to answer NO, investigate then daykill the surviving member of X1-Y1.

Provision 2, if a player investigated positive and daykilled by X1-Y1 cardflips town, a couple X2-Y2 shall be elected to investigate then and proceed accordingly.

Provision 3, if X and Y are in discord upon an investigation result, another couple of player are to be sent to prison to verify the result and act accordingly.



* or by popular vote of the towniest players.

Vulnerabilities to the plan:

# False positives: to avoid this MILLERS SHOULD CLAIM NOW
# Sanity of the cop: though it wouldn't make sense to twist investigation results in this game, this can be at least tested out before making any lethal commitment
# Godfather: my plan has no mean of detecting a GF, but hopefully we can weed out at least non-investigation immune scum before worrying about the GF
# Scum who can interfere with the answers given in Prison: if this ability exist, it would be worrying, but I think it is detectable enough with the double control system.
#Scum who are immune to daykill: well, detecting them first isn't half bad, we can worry about how to kill them after.

I think I haven't forgot anything. Your thoughts?

I support this plan and its creator.

[Albert B. Rampage]

On the other hand, its always more fun to

not

have a plan

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah sure.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Oh, p.s., anyone here actually want to go to jail? Anyone here that doesn't?

I want to go.

If you're going to send me, please specify whether you think I'm scum or town beforehand.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I pledge to answer no to the question.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unless the investigations take place during the day, they wouldn't be able to investigate each other because they are both jailed (refer to Rule 5).

They do take place during the day.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why does Tony have so many votes?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think we can agree that from now on, we only send suspicious felons to prison.

[Albert B. Rampage]

When you send someone, specify whether you find them scummy or not and for what reasons.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I want to see how this turns out. If OP is indeed scum and the kill was scumbuddy aid, I think another visit to the slammer will decide that for sure.

Makes sense.

Send: Spring

Send: orange

[Albert B. Rampage]

It is logical to send you to prison because it will create a scenario where the originator of the plan goes face to face with the plan breaker. Good drama.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You are certainly right. OP, claim please?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unsend everyone

Only skimmed the post above but I don't want to end the day yet.

[Albert B. Rampage]

There is merit in your case SlySly.

Send CarnCarn

He must be purged from the town tonight.

[Albert B. Rampage]

1.)

He never voted D1

, nor has he actually come out against someone aside from latching on to Seraphim's vote earlier (and that is even arguable as a real solid stance on who is scum).

2.) He pushed very, very hard to get jailed D1, and even went so far as to ask why other people were getting votes with the implication that he should be getting them.

3.) His contributions, and I've posted almost every contribution he's made, are almost always responses. The only pieces of original content I've found are him asking why TonyMontana was getting sent to jail, and him saying that only scum should be sent to prison.

1. Of course I didn't vote on D1. The day was unnecessarily rushed. We gained little to no information.

2. No, the implication was that the day was being rushed.

3. So your argument is that scum write responses rather than make original content? That is a very minor charge against me...

[Albert B. Rampage]

1. Of course I didn't vote on D1. The day was unnecessarily rushed. We gained little to no information.

2. No, the implication was that the day was being rushed.

3. So your argument is that scum write responses rather than make original content? That is a very minor charge against me...

1. If you thought that, why didn't you speak up? Why were your only contributions basically along the lines of politicking for your own jailing?

2. I disagree, that's not what I got out of that at all. But I hope the town rereads this post in its context and makes up their own mind. I think you and CarnCarn are jumping on this idea that you were these two mavericks in trying to stop the town from lynching so quickly D1, when the fact of the matter is nothing of substance was done to slow us down.

3. From my experience some scum try to act like they're involved in the game by making plenty of posts... except most of them aren't really saying or contributing anything.

I only skimmed the thread at the time. I assumed players who actually read it would probably know what they are doing better than me. Therefore I didn't try to "stop" it, instead I asked "why", because I didn't see the reasoning behind voting TM. And instead of answering my question, you just bandwagonned someone else and ended the day. What can I do.

When I'm unsure of what to do, I don't get involved. How simple is that?

(Most of the time I am sure of what I'm doing, so don't worry.)

[Albert B. Rampage]

No, spring. Yesterday we sent two players we "trusted".

Iceman, your plan won't work. Because...when will we kill the scum lol? Once they've had majority? There's no time to day-cop everyone one by one...ffs.

Its better to just play without a plan and let the chips fall where they may.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Its a foolhardy plan. Iceman how do you feel about saying goodbye to it and playing it as we go?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I am sure the post above is sound but I will not read it.

This is an example of my philosophy. Let the people who know what they're doing do it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well if the general town concensus is that my plan is invalid, so be it. But ABR, what do you mean by "play it as we go?" How are we going to get anywhere? What do we do from here?

I mean we play like normal mafia, as if this was a normal setup, except we lynch 2 people and they have a chance of surviving. No crazy macro-strategy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Bad news, guys, I'm in the game.

I've skimmed/read most of it, but I'll be up to speed entirely soon.

wow I remember you. Its been a WHILE.

[Albert B. Rampage]

One of CarnCarn and TCS is definitely scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Send CarnCarn

Send TCS

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sly, can you "take care" of CarnCarn if we send you to prison tonight?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well, Carn, if we send you to prison are you going to say yes or no?

[Albert B. Rampage]

(if you are locked up with Sly)

[Albert B. Rampage]

One of CarnCarn and TCS is definitely scum.

ABR plz explain. Not liking my wagon, here.

1.You both agree a lot. Generally scum agree with a town to look better when said townie dies.

2. You both want some sort of "plan". Which helps the scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well, Carn, if we send you to prison are you going to say yes or no?

That will probably be irrelevant. And considering what I think about my would-be inmate, I would say "Yes" anyway.

Okay so you will vote for him to die. Good to know.

Unsend TCS, send SlySly

Sly you have no choice but to vote yes as well.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So if you are sent to prison with TCS, will you answer yes or no?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Wait, what? So are we gonna send them in to say "yes", now?

Yes. We want blood.

CarnCarn, if we send you with TCS, will you answer yes or no?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Another thing...you and TCS speculate WAY too much about the setup to be any good to the town...

When I consider this, it makes a lot of sense. If we send two townies, they can play their prisoner's dilemma game. If we send two mafia, they get caught (or they play prisoner's dilemma to some other effect, perhaps?). And then if we send a townie and a mafia member, the townie dies. Since there were no other mafia kills last night, we might suspect mafia lacks a normal nightkill. This is one possibility.

However, it's entirely possible that we have only the prison to work with, and the kill from last night was just some sort of mafia superkill (or even the result of a third party superkill), and this speculating is useless.

Actually, thinking about this some more, we may not need to actually

kill

scum, just lock them up. Sure, it might be possible to use the daykill ability, but I think if we just send them to prison, they will just get locked up for life or something (which leads me to strongly believe that there are more than 2 scum in this game, because an accidental D1 scum pairing could end the game right there).

What's up with this horseshit guys? Spend less time setup speculating and more time scumhunting.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Willing to self-hammer the two of us (me and Sly). Suspecting a SlySly, orangepenguin, icemanE connection.

You're already both hammered.

[Albert B. Rampage]

CarnCarn, if we send you with TCS, will you answer yes or no?

I already answered this above. Besides, if we are really playing PD, it won't make a difference what I say now because no one can force me to stick to my choice.

I don't like your antagonistic attitude. Hopefully you will take scum down with you tonight if you are indeed town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

=P