Greeting's Mini Normal Review, February 2022

[Ircher]

This feels like one of those setups where even if it were in theory balanced, scum would not enjoy playing it at all. The main problem is that there are too many potential clears being generated from the town prs, and scum are going to be forced to kill clears rather than the people they want even in the worst-case scenarios for town. The cop is a clear, the FN is a clear, and it's quite likely that the cop will generate at least one clear over the course of the game. That's going to be an uphill battle for scum even if they manage to block one of town's prs every night.

[Ircher]

This feels like one of those setups where even if it were in theory balanced, scum would not enjoy playing it at all. The main problem is that there are too many potential clears being generated from the town prs, and scum are going to be forced to kill clears rather than the people they want even in the worst-case scenarios for town. The cop is a clear, the FN is a clear, and it's quite likely that the cop will generate at least one clear over the course of the game. That's going to be an uphill battle for scum even if they manage to block one of town's prs every night.

What changes would you suggest? I am open to strengthening scum by giving them a one-shot Vigilante, but I am not sure if this is allowed in a Normal Themed Game. I could also remove the Jailkeeper (but I'd much rather leave both Cop and Tracker) and give town a weaker role instead.

I apologize for not getting back sooner. I think replacing the jailkeeper with a role at a similar power level to the mafia mailman and making the watcher 2-shot or odd night probably puts this into the realm of balanced while not being too frustrating for scum. mastina has final approval over the setup, but that's what I'm thinking after looking through past completed reviews.

Also, in normal games, there cannot be a limit on the number of characters in the message that the mailman sends.

[Ircher]

Neighborizer should work fine.

Global daytalk is allowed provided it is specified in the ruleset. As to rule 11... Eh, I think you should ask a list moderator about that one. If implosion or another list mod says it is okay, then it's okay.

[Ircher]

I will make a summary post which will entail all the changes we discussed.

I think it will be better for you to repost everything just so we don't miss anything. mastina's comment implied that she would accept the setup, so you can go ahead and do that.

[Ircher]

Rule 6 under Miscellaneous (about day talk) should go under game-specific information. Also, your ruleset is very long. You may want to consider having a summary of the essential points somewhere as people don't tend to read long rulesets. Most experienced players skim or skip everything that isn't a setup-specific rule. Another option would be bolding your more unusual or important rules.

This is minor, but in the town's win condition, it should read "You win when there

are

no more mafia..."

For the tracker pm, the role name should read as "Town N1 N2 N3 Tracker". The role should flip as such as well. I would delete "only" from the sentence that mentions the night phases in the tracker pm.

I think you are a bit confused about how a neighborizer works. I'm a bit short on time rn, so I'll clarify later. Alternatively, you can look at the wiki page for neighborizer.

Technically speaking, mafia have to have a member alive to win in normals. (Your current win condition doesn't reflect this.) This is less of a concern though in a mini where the only time that may not be the case is with a vig, but it's good to not inadvertently give away info about the setup.

In the mailman role pm: "The player will also be allowed to quote the contents of the message directly into the game thread." --> Please delete this. This is too risky for game integrity purposes. You can probably allow copy-paste but not quoting.

[Ircher]

We also need result pms for the cop, tracker, and watcher.

[Ircher]

Okay, a neighborizer in a normal game has the following characteristics:

1) They start with no others in their neighborhood.
2) They can add a player to their neighborhood each night. Players added after the first are added to the same neighborhood not a different one.
3) The neighborizer action doesn't fail if the player is killed.

Your description is quite a bit different. If you want a neighborizer to only recruit one player, you would have to make it one shot. Unfortunately, there is not a way in normal games to refund shots if their action fails. If you want the target player to specifically know who neighborized them, that's not exactly normal either, but you can come pretty close by making the neighborizer loud. (They would receive a separate message that X targeted them last night in addition to the standard "You have been invited to a neighborhood" message. If you go that route, make sure the two messages are sent separately and not as a combined message.)

[Ircher]

The neighborizer should not be directly informed if their action fails (though they can certainly infer as much), but everything else looks fine to me.

[Ircher]

It's the way things are on this site. Roles generally aren't informed their action failed unless they specifically get a result of some sort. Like for the neighborizer, sure, they'll know something is up when the person they targeted isn't in the neighborhood, but it's up to them to make that deduction. You risk accidentally giving away information you shouldn't. (To be clear here, I'm not saying this is usually the case or necessarily the case here, but it can happen.)

Also, for normal games, it is important that things like action resolution is standardized. This ensures a consistent set of expectations from players. As already mentioned, the current standard is that neighborizers don't get notified if their action fails. Deviating from the established standards can influence the way players perceive the setup and the deductions they make about it.