Mini 695 - Futurama Mafia - Over

[Porochaz]

confirm

[Porochaz]

mod: The voting system do you take

farside

as a vote or

vote farside

, just making sure cause you didnt bold it.

[Porochaz]

I obviously screwed the tags up there... 3 posts already and noone else has started... come on people!!! Apologies for the triple post so soon... Ill ask the question again do you just bold the name or do you have to put the bolded vote in front.

[Porochaz]

Gorrads in this sexy game, didnt even notice, I did notice Xtoxm was though, hes the SK, hes always the SK. Problem solved.

vote Xtoxm

[Porochaz]

pacman your post made no sense...

Now to the big matter at hand, when I said that, I was referring to mafia 585 - A Tempest Is Formed ran by Mitzef which both me and Xtoxm were in and arguing over who was SK (neither of us were, I was mafia, he was town), even so Im sorry for causing your day 1 play to be a disaster, but no matter what you have to be lynched now. Your an anti town role. Simple as. Even if the town are to take your claim that Im a mafia day rolecop (please honestly find me a game with that in)

Your quote

And he will say he was just saying it as a joke, but I have never been an SK before, so he's scum.

Is nonsensical. Its day 1 of course its a joke, in fact Im a bit confused as to whether your joking and Im taking you seriously. If you are, as I told Alabaska J during and after that game, now your a claimed SK, you have lost. Noone can take your word seriously anymore. You cannot help the town as you are against it.

Im sorry. You should of taken it as a joke and laughed it off. I wasnt serious. If I was I would of pushed it harder. I would of claimed and said what you were. I didnt, my post was obviously a joke you missed that and claimed.

My vote for Xtoxm stands for the duration of the day.

[Porochaz]

Thats fair enough, although it shouldnt be in a mini normal, its a rare role not to say its not in this game but its unlikely. Now your going to make me find the page arent you... in this slow internet connection... give me time.

[Porochaz]

pacman your post made no sense...

That's called a joke, as you said from your own post.
FoS: Porochaz
@wolf: I don't understand what's happening... this looks like either the biggest metagaming i've ever seen or the most complex breadcrumb ever existed. Or the biggest joke i've ever seen. I'm with the last, but it looks like it might be the first.
Sorry for the weird post, I'm tired...

I didnt understand thats all, I just wondered what you meant, I cant see how that deserves a FoS...

And claim as mafia, you know I wouldnt do that and you also know what I meant. If I was going to claim outing you as SK you know I would just claim Day rolecop, dont be stupid. I am an antitown role according to you a confirmed antitown role, which as far as I can tell, (pretty logically I might add) is not a good basis. You are nowhere near a vig. You are a SK, ones protown, the other is anti. One trying to kill scum, the other trying to kill everyone. Dont try and play this as the good guy, people will not buy it.

[Porochaz]

pacman your post made no sense...

That's called a joke, as you said from your own post.
FoS: Porochaz
@wolf: I don't understand what's happening... this looks like either the biggest metagaming i've ever seen or the most complex breadcrumb ever existed. Or the biggest joke i've ever seen. I'm with the last, but it looks like it might be the first.
Sorry for the weird post, I'm tired...

I didnt understand thats all, I just wondered what you meant, I cant see how that deserves a FoS...

And claim as mafia, you know I wouldnt do that and you also know what I meant. If I was going to claim outing you as SK you know I would just claim Day rolecop, dont be stupid. I am an antitown role according to you a confirmed antitown role, which as far as I can tell, (pretty logically I might add) is not a good basis. You are nowhere near a vig. You are a SK, ones protown, the other is anti. One trying to kill scum, the other trying to kill everyone. Dont try and play this as the good guy, people will not buy it.

[Porochaz]

Are you reading what your posting before you press submit? really.

btw viewtopic.php?t=8110&postdays=0&postord ... start=1350 this page. Although you will have to go back a few more pages to get the whole thing, post 1353 (or 1535) is the one of relevance, the one where he thinks Im SK.

[Porochaz]

Hopefully players like Llama and kloud will think SK = anti town = "hes trying to feed us bullshit" = lynch.

[Porochaz]

sorry you quoted 1364, I dont know if you read this right but I said 1353, which is this post

The main thing that makes me doubt AJ is I really can't see him killing the doc, rather than making maf do it.

Infact, i've been thinking it's Poro who's SK

cos EG is the only one I can see doing that.

AJ, why did you kill MM?

Now please, put your glasses on, those post numbers are difficult to read...

At Pacman

meh, whatever, I missed the joke. I wasnt frustrated or annoyed at the confirmation stage, just asking the mod to clarify which she clearly did.

[Porochaz]

If hes playing as a Jester hes putting in one hell of a performance, I highly doubt it though for two reasons, 1, his whole reaction towards me and the claim of SK, 2, knowing farside, our mod, I can see her being outlandish in her roles but a Jester is one of these contraversial ones that not many people like, as it goes against the ethos of the game farside I believe being one of those people. However thats an opinion not a fact.

There are reasons why a town rolecop would keep quiet but then there are similar reasons for a scum rolecop to stay quiet as well. It really depends on the player.

[Porochaz]

Further, Xtoxm is saying that Porochaz needs to be a scum daycop trying to breadcrumb the claim. Is there a great reason that a town daycop role wouldn't consider outing a threat to the town day one even if it was a SK rather than mafia? I don't know enough of how these two play to have a read on how they've chosen to interact thus far.

Rolecop is a scum role, only scum get it so he can't claim it and claim town. Town cops only get alignment.

Bullshit if mafia can get rolecops then town can as well, why wouldnt they?

If they can't win there's no fundamental reason for them to play in a pro-town manner. I respect the move to stay alive using whatever means necessary but I don't buy the motive given.

Not on the surface, no. But I like the line up of players here and i'd like to be able to play as town in this game, and so I would like to stay around and do that despite have "lost". Although I don't consider it lost as such, me being lynched today is what i'd consider lost, but that's irrelevent in terms of win conditions.

Again also bullshit.

[Porochaz]

He said day rolecop.

Ok I havent seen a farside modded game before, I just thought from her play and MD posts that she would stick to the more normal roles. Outguessing the mod is bad though so I shall not go further down that road. Your right about lynching too soon before we have more discussion however I still think no matter what Xtoxm is todays lynch for definite.

[Porochaz]

This is true, Zorblag. However I dont like considering Jester roles especially on page 3/4 of a thread, its a lot more likely hes an SK panicked. His play suggests it. Hes been given a reprieve for the moment lets see how things play out.

[Porochaz]

Volunteer for my nightkill right there.

This is making good on the vig promise...

[Porochaz]

my vote stays on Xtoxm, and I feel it's clear why. He's claimed he is the Serial Killer -- so by definition, he is a Threat to the Town.

This

His actions dont speak protown, what would he be there for an extra kill that we decide on beforehand... well I can see that falling right into scums hands... really the extra kill to be deicided upon before hand, being influenced by scum, good call... not. We have an anti town role here or what Im calling an ABR townie. (Someone who is so antitown the only good thing would be to lynch them) No matter what outcome he should be lynched, I am quite happy to have a chat for the rest of the day about everyone else but as long as we have a rope round xtoxms next by sundown. I cant trust a SK's kill, what if he decides to help scum on the last day, force a draw between scum and SK. Its a dumb move to keep him and he should go

[Porochaz]

Well your making a HUGE case to stay... Im sorry but lynching me based on a claimed SK's suspicions and the reasons he gave(Ill repeat it shall I? Day rolecops dont go to town) aren't even 100% true, there is no reasons why a rolecop couldnt go to town. The post was obviously a joke, I even gave the link to the game I was referring to, even direct to the page. I think Ive given enough reason to prove that Im not a mafia rolecop so if you really truly want to start helping town maybe you might want to help look into other cases, Hmmm?

[Porochaz]

Ok look at it from this side, by keeping you alive we have an extra kll that they can influence. Its all very well to say you'll be a townie vig which would be fine if it was only townies making the decision for you but its not. You could also easily change sides at the last moment and make scum win because you dont have the words "town" or "scum" in your role PM. We cant trust you. Well we cant trust anyone but least of all someone we know isnt fully on our side.

[Porochaz]

The only way you were ever going to keep people on side, was to do exactly as they say. I always thought it was a bad idea, this is why.

[Porochaz]

I only said that because i#m not trying to keep myself alive.

Obviously

[Porochaz]

I think roleclaiming does not effect the game in any way and couldnt care less if someone claimed

[Porochaz]

Lynch someone whos possibly town, and the whole rolecop thing is 100% n the basis of what the antitown player has said. Why?

[Porochaz]

Fair enough, however some homework I hope you will take on whilst we are at night. Look through the last few mini themes (ie. 10/20 or so) and find out how many of them had rolecops and whether they were mafia or town, also look at the context of the post where I made my vote. Its obviously made in jest then later on when I post the link to the thread that it is based on.

What Im trying to get through to you is how unlikely this is. It really is. Please check the past mini theme threads.

[Porochaz]

Its obviously a joke and I have explained it and even linked to the post/thread I was referring to, its possible sure and in my last post I wasnt denying that it isnt possible but its just very unlikely, and I think its so unlikely that Im asking him to look through completed games to see how unlikely it is. Not an unfair thing to ask. Im not even sure why Im defending myself against a case made initially by an SK trying to survive. If after hes looked that up and still think Im a mafia rolecop, fair enough but I personally think it would need more than a minor coincidence and an overreaction by a SK.

[Porochaz]

Lying about what?

[Porochaz]

I can't say that I'm thrilled with how this game is going so far. Apparently Xtoxm was the SK he claimed he was. Unless there's some twist involving him later on (and that doesn't seem too likely) I'm not at all convinced just now that he was playing by rule 2.

2) Play to win, but also to have fun. See rule 1.

I take that trying to win to be something the players have all agreed to do when I'm trying to figure out the cause for their actions. For a one person faction to die that willingly (going so far as to self-hammer) the first day does not count as them playing to win. In this case he's done even more harm though. The way he's chosen not to win arbitrarily hurts the town and helps the scum despite the fact that he wasn't aligned to either.

Of course, when I say he hurt the town and helped the scum I have to be fair here. We followed his lead and went straight for the quick lynch on day one without discussion of much of anything. We got minimal posts from several people and now have to try to figure out what's going on without the benefit of interactions we would have gotten on a typical day one. We did exactly what I warned we were doing (though I didn't make nearly enough of an issue of it so I get blame for this as well.)

OK, the game seems to be dragging a bit at this point. Xtoxm doesn't seem as though he's going to be a willing tool for the town if he is a SK (which I still don't fully buy.) At this point I won't have any real issues with him getting lynched at the end of the day. On the other hand, lynching him right now means that we've gained very little information and go into the second day giving scum the advantage of initiative so let's see what we can do to talk about other things that might lead to useful information down the line.

So now, here we are in day 2. We did give initiative to the scum and they used it to take out our doc. If we're going to pull a town victory out of this we're going to have be more aware as we go forward. We've got a couple places to start from today (but not nearly as many as we should) and I'll take a look at them this afternoon and see where my suspicions lie but I'm really hoping that we don't continue to play this game like we have so far.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I think its fair to say that when he outed himself and it was clear we wernt going to keep him alive it was all he could do. Also your last paragraph is rubbish... unfortunetly I have to rin off to uni so cant finish this post but the fact that the doc got hit I think was totally random and was done more for Gorrads seniority than anything else. We have a few leads as far as I can see and as the day goes on the game will develop further. And by the way I hope we do continue the game as we have done. We have just lynched scum on day 1. Our aim is to eliminate all mafia.

[Porochaz]

...and the SK.

[Porochaz]

The xtoxm lynch was only made so quickly because it was bllatantly obvious he was scum.

[Porochaz]

@Porochaz: I realize why we lynched as quickly as we did. What I'm trying to argue about us doing to quickly is perhaps summed up well by:

...trying to come up with a way that Xtoxm could be a non-scum role.

X wasn't scum, he was third party. He was anti-town, of course, but not scum. My main reason for not voting him was for this reason. We need to find scum and

day 1 ended before we got very far at all on that subject.

At this point it's neither here nor there though. We're in the state we are so I'll drop it and focus on figuring out who the scum are.

I find day 1 doesnt give you much anyway unless someone slips up, then they are a good day 1 lynch. Looking back on it, we already had a good day 1 lynch from Xtoxm slipping up. I dont think we would of found or discovered much more letting night fall was a better idea than dragging on the day with question without any basis and discussing the nightkill that happened (or failed to)

So lets discuss then...

[Porochaz]

Sorry I got mixed up with my other game, Gorrad died.

Therefore we have someone who picked up on the breadcrumb
(as earlier folk said not a wise idea to discuss this and since I think its unlikely Ill leave it)
or we have someone who went for a seniority lynch

As to my feelings currently over the past few pages I'm going to disagree with wolf, I dont think Llama was being tunnel visioned. He made a case on who he thought was scummy and whilst I dont feel its worth a vote yet, I do agree with him. I dont feel he should of had to make a townie/scummy summary of everyone, but if he felt ok doing it then fine.

[Porochaz]

@porochaz: I feel that alot of your posts deal with the whole role cop business and the SK. If you think Llama is not tunnelvisioned, do you think he makes a good point and its worth any other questions at this time? What other current suspicions are valid and which if any are BS?

I already said he made a good point I felt Wolf was scummy particularly that post Llama quoted before he (llama) wrote that post. I was involved in another discussion and don't feel it right for me to enter into another discussion which stemmed from whether I personally am scum or town.

I dont feel he should of had to make a townie/scummy

I also said this and this essentially answers the last part of your question as essentially your asking me the same thing. However having said that, I feel currently suspicion on wolf is well founded, i'm not sure about the dukes case and I don't understand the case on GW at all. Will have to look through DP posts to see what he said. Pacman I didn't understand to begin with but felt his play slightly weird, I will be watching him if he returns

(mod, prod?)

[Porochaz]

The ghost wagon is not a good wagon, I would like to see him replaced or posting more but I dont find him scummy because of lurking.

[Porochaz]

it's in

my

best interest to shut up

Thanks for quoting this kloud. Your best interest is not to help town at all. Your stance is dumb as hell, by shutting up you are just gaining more attraction to yourself. This is not an individual game. It's a team game and if you are town you should know this. If you are scum then you are, in my opinion, more likely to take your chance at saving your own skin. The

my

here is whats making me want to vote you Dukes because I can't see a townie saying that, or trying to save there own skin over catching scum.

Im going to look over the votes that Zorblag and pacman made for you and then make my decision.

[Porochaz]

Ok I read over Zorblag and pacmans posts and then Dukes. Whilst I dont mind Zorblags Day 2 vote I dont think either vote adds much to my growing suspicion on Dukes. However, I want to see a u-turn in the post kloud quoted.

For Now

FoS Dukes

[Porochaz]

My suspicion list:
1. Pacman -- The posting has been rather brief and erratic.
2. GW -- The posting has been rather non-existent.
3. Wolf/Llama -- Their little snap just rubs me the wrong way.
4. DP -- He's been quiet most of the game and recommends lynching an inactive; right or wrong, it's rather dangerous.

Ok just something I noticed, you have GW at no. 2 in your suspicions list for not posting but you have DP at no 4, for voting him because of that. Can you explain your thoughts on both of them more clearly please?

[Porochaz]

Porochaz, (good to see you in a non-newbie game) I'm on page 2, and not sure how you got Xtoxm as a SK already. I'm sure I'll see that as I read more though. The role Xtoxm mentioned does exist, and knowing Farside's modding, I wouldn't be shocked to see it here. You said that during the night, people should look for likeliness of the daycop role. Ok, look at how many times you have seem a Voteless Random JOAT. Farside used that role in Family Guy. Point is, in a game that Farside is modding, Anything is possible

Meh I havent read Family Guy Mafia, Ill put that on my to do list. However I still state its an unlikely role. Having a wacky mod increases that likely hood but Im still going with it being unlikely.

Thanks for reminding me, I would like to know the result of the looking through past games?

A voteless JOAT, Ive only played one once where I was scum and Glork was a voteless JOAT. It was an Ether scumchat game and was unusual I guess.

Pacman, I am having such a hard time understanding you, I don't mean to be rude towards you or anything so please forgive me if I ask you to reword some of the things your trying to say to me.

[Porochaz]

What breadcrumb are you talking about?

[Porochaz]

Jack of all Trades, they usually have a range of one shot abilities they can use.

[Porochaz]

Do we still get a votecount next top of page?

Yes.

[Porochaz]

DP always plays with couplets, I can give you an example in a couple of days if needed. Please dont read into it him doing that, its not a PR.

[Porochaz]

pacman, have you watched futurama before?

[Porochaz]

I thought pacmans behaivour might have something to do with him not understanding family guy (a it of confusion for myself), he has now confirmed that he has an understanding thereore I

vote pacman

, I haven't liked many of your posts in this games so far.

On a related topic, purely for conversational value, I think I cried for the first time watching a cartoon during Jurassic Bark, if you havent watched it, it is in my opinion the best episode ever.

[Porochaz]

His first discussion with me and his defence against Llama are prime examples, however very little of his posts have caused me to think he's town. I did mean Futurama, sorry.

[Porochaz]

Well the second post you quoted answers the first.

Also politeness is a virtue. Demanding me to explain is something not noteworthy to success in getting me to talk politely to you.

Your first posts to me confused me, I initially thought it was just some problem in the way one of us worded something, on my reread of your posts after the defence I felt it was something more. Every single post(with content) has been kind of fishy to me. I would like to explain more which I hopefully will do tomorrow. I want to have a look at your long defensive post in more detail tomorrow.

[Porochaz]

While I hate to use a superficial reason on top of all the others I've noted, SHOUTING AT PEOPLE WHO QUESTION YOU DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD.

This. It didn't seem a large enough point and does not make you scummy.

[Porochaz]

to mention it a post that is

[Porochaz]

Sorry my large post was blue screened yesterday and I cant really be bothered redoing it now in uni. Ill do it later

[Porochaz]

even without the lost long post, it should be obvious that Im not voting pacman for theme reasons, the reason I asked was because a part of what would make sme of his posts excusable is if he didnt know futurama. I would still be likely voting for him.

[Porochaz]

Reread are always good, they make you realize the really obvious stuff that you missed the first go around. I am going to go ahead and

unvote, vote pacman

.
.
.
.
In pacmans opening post he makes a joke vote. While in most cases there is nothing wrong with something like this, in this situation it is scummy. Shortly before this opening post, xtoxm claimed SK. I have a massive problem with you not even mentioning this, let alone not casting a vote, laying a FoS, or even commenting on who you believed. Random phase had just broken, so trying to revert to it is scummy.

When attention Is called to this, he FoSed Poro for seemingly unrelated reasons, and just stated he was confused, thinking that this was a joke instead of anything else. If it was a joke why the need to FoS poro, or even fail to mention it until prompted?

Calls the FoS on poro for doing something “really weird” which never got elaborated on. Still little mention of the exchange between the two players at this point.

Now he jumps to the xtoxm = jester conclusion. While I guess this finally gives some input to the conflict that is occurring, it really doesn’t add anything. He spends more of the time at the end of D1 mocking xtoxm instead of working on any theories, or even responding the ideas that I was creating.

Today we started off with the “damn” post which is a weak tell, but it still sets me off a bit when there is a comment of how the night panned out without any real backing to it, such as claiming a kill as from a vig, or protecting (or more in this case RBing) a kill.

Most of the case that pacman uses against Dukes is weak at best (which is ironic since that is the reasoning he voted Dukes), and OMGUS at worst (which it is more to me). The vote is also made for “strawmanning” which I really don’t think occurred in this case. I am bad with the word, but have never seen it used on the first post a player makes in a game, even more so a joke post.

Later pacman goes on to say that his FoS on Poro was due to the fact that he did not understand his post against xtoxm early on, the one that he thought was a breadcrumb. This doesn’t hold up with his explaination of people later, in which he lists me, DP and kloud as “don’t understand” and no read on kmd and wolf (wolf is interesting here since I had pressed him already at this point). Using similar logic he should of FoSed us all at some point if he is confused.

So I feel that pac is using some very weak reasoning to be voting for Dukes, that stems mostly from an OMGUS origin. When you add on the fact that he has avoided most of the topics of conversation for the day, both the poro/xtoxm exchange for the early stages, and my attack on the players who I believe acted subpar and tried to set up D2 lynch before D1 completed.

Also I know this is going to get asked so I will say it now. I still consider wolf a decent lynch for today. At this point though pacman is looking like a better lynch.

First part: I didn't pay attention to Xtoxm's claim because I DIDN'T BELIEVE IT. When attention turned to him, I still thought that he would be rather a vi (no offense) or a jester or a mafiate making a really weird gambit.
Second part: My FoS on Poro was half a joke, half a very weird thought.
Third part: Read the post of the FoS. "That is called a joke, as you said from your own post".
Fourth part: A SK claim is very weird, and I didn't call it; the claim did really confuse me.
Fifth part: Does not compute... *explodes*
NOTE: This is not a breadcrumb. Seriously. I just didn't understand that part.
Sixth part: Dukes started attacking me due to my votes day 1, which were made just ON THE SAME POST. He said that I did make a vote to the first person who asked me about that: FAKE.
I also think that I misused the term; it means something like the take of a little part of the post ignoring the other part and making a weak attack based on that.
Please explain why do you think my case on Dukes is OMGUS on the worst case.
Seventh part: You didn't understand what I meant on wolf; I meant that I had the same on him than on you, i.e, I didn't understand well in him... maybe due to stupidness (from me)?
The part on Poro looks like a misunderstanding from me; Xtoxm did really confuse me... ouch...
I had no read on Kmd because I had no read on GW and because Kmd did just enter to the game.
I didn't get the last part of that paragraph. what did you try to say?
Final part: Holy jamaican limbo stick! What did you mean with that?! I didn't pay many attention to Poro/Xtoxm because that got me really insane...

sigh... blue screened 3 times making this post, I give up. I hate this post its a very weak defense to some quite large points, the fact you didnt pay attention to the largest part of the early game is scummy to me.

vote pacman

, your other posts as Ive said before havent been much better

[Porochaz]

unvote pacman

I saw your breadcrumb as well however I didnt really have any thoughts towards your alignment because of it. I have to consider your claim I dont neccasserily think youd fake claim that.

[Porochaz]

Because regardless to me, if he has a claim its wise in my view to take a step back and view the claim for what it is, this is what Im doing now. I may think he's scum but if he's claimed then I should review my case and be totally sure before I advocating a lynch on a powerrole. Because if he's telling the truth then it would be very bad for the town if we went through with his lynch. I haven't had a change of heart but claimng a powerrole changes things. I don't necasserily believe his claim but right at the moment in this day hes not a good lynch.

Also pac, why did you not use your power n1?

[Porochaz]

depends on the specifics of his role. He'll keep hiding behind people so wont get NK'ed, if he dies through hiding behind mafia then the longer he survives the more innocents we have. He has a powerful role if its true. If mafias dont kill him when he hides behind them then its less so.

Tomorrow yes, today no. The presense of an SK wants me to think there are 2 scum and a SK, not 3 scum and a SK. I think everyone claiming tomorrow is a good idea if we lynch town, due to us probably being in lylo. If tonight we lynch scum then I wouldnt. This is based on my thoughts that 3 scum/1 SK would be quite unbalanced. If someone else has a varying opinion then please state it.

[Porochaz]

I severely doubt there is a 3 scum/SK and if we are in doubt we shouldnt claim. I don't like wolfs stance on it, it's to dangerous to do at the moment and whilst I can accept others wanting to do it I can't accept his lackadaisical attitude towards the claim.

FoS Wolf

Im not confortable will a full/name claim now as if were not in lylo then its just giving scum more info

[Porochaz]

Zorblag and kloud have stated that they would rather wait till tomorrow, I have problems with DP but not as bad as you at the moment and Jahudo said no. So, I think that surnmizes why.

[Porochaz]

Its more likely we have 2 scum than 3. Having 2 killing roles a night is dangerous in a mini, yes its able to be balanced but the more power roles you add the more factors you have to add. Power roles get used on top of one another and it causes confusion. It makes it more swingy. More power roles does not nessacerily mean better odds for town.

Also if farside had a problem where the claims greatly assisted town to victory dont you think she'll amend that to make it harder. I think curiosity is getting the better of you or your scum hoping for that extra information. I dont see the claims as provable. I have a problem with this. I think essentially theres a higher percentage chance (lets say 66% to 33%) that its 2 scum and 1 SK to 3 scum and 1 SK. Playing percentages I strongly advise against claiming now all I can see is it outing roles to scum.

Im trying here to speak from experience arranging my current game and Batman mafia and balancing them - Where it went from scum/sk to scum/vig to scum for balance issues. I don't have that much experience setting up and balancing but I do have some, I think the only other person here that can say that is DP. Im only mentioning this because Im aware that many of you wouldnt have modded a game before and set up the roles.

But now Im outguessing the mod. Im not the mod for this game. Im guessing Batman mafia isn't as outrageous as Futurama simply because I made an effort to balance it. (which failed due to ABR) so it's possibility but so is a mafia rolecop (!) we keep trying to outguess farside and to be fair shes a pretty shrewd player, so Im guessing she's the same as a mod. We're not doing anything by outguessing her. I'm going by odds and by my past experience which is telling me even if we have 3 scum and an SK combo we should (need a) claim unless we really have to. Right now, we don't.

[Porochaz]

EBWOP: In the post above I did not been to state that farside did not make an effort to balance her game, just that when I made my game it was my primary goal to make sure it was as balanced as I could make it. So sorry if there was a misinterpretation there.

[Porochaz]

Remind you both: Xtoxm was a SK not a cult

[Porochaz]

Sorry had my parents visiting over the weekend am back now, still dead against the massclaim. Read over the last page when uni is over.

[Porochaz]

I would be willing to make a bet on there being only two scum because Im sure of it. Massclaim today is wrong, totally wrong.

[Porochaz]

Because Im playing odds. Its so much more likely that its 2 scum/1 SK than 3 scum/1 SK that Id be willing to bet on it. Massclaim when noone is sure is stupid. Massclaiming when its not needed is stupid. Massclaiming when its extremely unlikely were in LYLO is, once again, stupid. Its not an option, it shouldnt be considered, why it is, is beyond me.

[Porochaz]

Yeah... the odds still win all the way

[Porochaz]

Not very high, I wonder how many games thats happened in hmm...? I think Ill go with 1/690odd games. I fail to see your point. Well no, I do, its just not a very good one.

[Porochaz]

I'm saying that in Farside's games, odds don't mean shit.

Your putting to much emphasis on"its farside" so what? (no disrespect intended) mods do crazy and wacky things especially in mini's, there was once a role in a scumchat game where Glork was a big ball of beanie babies whilst I was a Nigerian Scam artist (he was a JOAT and I was a scum roleblocker) All mods do things out of the ordinary some are bastard mods and MANY like to keep things balanced for the fun of the players.

I mean put it this way:

Lets all claim because "its farside", let's all reminisce about our first memories in the hope that unlocks a special bonus because "its farside", lets forget about finding scum and just all reveal our roles and then make a campfire and toast marshmallows and tell ghost stories and revel in one anothers company thinking about how peaceful the Delivery company could be because "its farside", maybe I will get a post restriction for talking about how I had some great Shnu Shnu last night because "its farside, maybe we should all take photos of ourselves with it written on our foreheads our feelings about massclaims, maybe that'll give town an auto win?

Ill give you a clue here, its pointless outguessing the mod. All we really have is the odds, saying she put 3 scum in this game is the same as guessing what kind of paper farside wrote her set up on. Its useless, and I wish you could see that.

Also just to prove a small insignificant point here,

The o didnt turn out well.

[Porochaz]

We dont have 3 scum. There I said it. I think its blindingly obvious 3 scum and 1 sk would be a pain to balance.

8 townies 1 SK 3 scum Day 1
Lynch townie
Night 2 townies die
5 townies 1SK 3 Scum
Lynch townie
2 Townies die/1 Townie-SK dies
2Townies 1SK 3 Scum/3 Townies- 3 scum

Game over by day 2 (practically in the first one, actually in the second option)

This is why 3 scum/1SK is so unlikely in mini themes the game could potentially be over by day 2! You are over emphasising the information like its going to be a hot commodity when its not, let the remaining powerroles do there thing and stay silent. That way we can have our remaining roles actually do something useful before they get slaughtered by the massclaim. Because thats what your turning them into, sheep. Making it harder for town to win. I dont think I can make it any more clear how wrong I think this is when we are unsure. Adding a massclaim with 2 scum will confuse things and cause scum to take advantage by killing powerroles.

You assume by massclaiming that we will get an instant answer. We won't and we will probably end up lynching some vanilla townie. 3 scum - game over, 2 scum - live to see another day assuming option 2 is true then night passes most dangerous power role to the scum gets killed, town is in the shit, putting it mildly and lastly I think I can do a bit of the caps lock thing as well WE COULD LOSE BECAUSE KMD THOUGHT A MASSCLAIM WAS A GOOD IDEA WHEN WE ARE UNSURE WERE IN LYLO.

[Porochaz]

I'm checking in briefly this morning and I should have more this afternoon/evening. While I in theory agree with Porochaz that there are probably 2 scum rather than 3 I find his level of certainty to be troubling. Unless he has some sort of additional information that the rest of us don't have access to there shouldn't be a way for him to be as sure as he's claiming to be. The simplest way for him to have that information would be for him to be scum.

I was waiting for someone to make this point. The thing is I have made it perfectly clear that its from an odds and a common sense point of view than anything else.

Additionally Porochaz has been focused on massclaim issues to the exclusion of anything else

because its the main thing thats been brought up and I feel so strongly against it that Im going to fight against it, theres no point arguing suspicions if a massclaim is going to overrule it

since we started talking more about suspicions (while most everyone else has been looking at other players which should be helpful.)

Im looking but currently this is more important

As such, Porochaz has risen on my list of potential scum from a borderline entry to a much more solid entry.

FoS: Porochaz

.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Also what could benifit me, if I was scum by not having the massclaim. Scum should be revelling that town want a massclaim, that I will go into once the game is over. Massclaim benifits scum, no massclaim leaves them in the same position as before.

[Porochaz]

But then I doubt were in lylo,were going round in circles.

However, whilst your post is possible, that could backfire. If town jump on a scums wagon. Massclaim is a lot more benifical to them than that.

[Porochaz]

Im sure were not in LYLO, the town can decide. Ive made my case and I think its a stupid idea, hopefully the majority of town will agree with me. Scum are enjoying this and more than likely pushing this massclaim. But can we vote now on whether we do or dont

vote no massclaim

and get it over with.

[Porochaz]

question for you then, have you ever balanced a game? Also have you looked back at past games to check my conclusion isn't as strongly warranted?

[Porochaz]

I dont think its impossible, by all means, there could be 3 scum, 1 SK but I seriously doubt it, just from my experience, and dont think "its farside" is a decent enough excuse to push it.

[Porochaz]

I can do more than one thing at a time and will, once the massclaim has been voted on or at least till the weekend, whatever come first.

[Porochaz]

I think we need some prods

[Porochaz]

Do wee ned to bld I asssumre faisude will se it.

[Porochaz]

its ok better you said it

[Porochaz]

We need Jahudo and pacmans replacement to give there opinions.

[Porochaz]

sorry you are correct.

[Porochaz]

2 SK's in the one game, amazing... I'll be honest Im still expecting an auto vote off xtoxm.

[Porochaz]

So yeah Xtoxm, It would be useful for you to read over and then tell us if your for or against the massclaim?

[Porochaz]

Fos Xtoxm

out of the possibilities this is the worst, why risk lynching wolf if were in lylo? Surely you would want a massclaim first. I also think you should reread before you answer that question or automatically asume someone is scum based on your first wee bit.

[Porochaz]

This is going to sound stupid from me, but I like how your ignoring kmd (i thought I was answering to Jahudo there...) I said I personally think there is 2 and would be willing to bet on it. I didnt say there was no way. I did say "There is not 3 scum, there I said it." or equivalent, but Im sure I backtracked very slightly and said that it was very unlikely and that balancing it would be hard but not impossible. Apart from the statement above quoted above Im sure Ive not been as definate, I will be checking then placing a vote on you kmd, your pushing and exaggurating what Ive been saying has not gone unnoticed.

[Porochaz]

Well you seemed to be very strongly against the massclaim to me. You seemed pretty sure that there are 2 mafia in this game. Maybe I misread it, but that's the way it looked.

Xtoxm has come out and done the opposite. He seems very sure that there are 3 mafia.

I just thought both sides seemed relatively sure, so I noted the differences. My apologies if you weren't as sure as I thought.

I looked at my posts it seems to me that I did show I felt that strongly. However I did repeatedly say Im playing the odds, but if you watched me play Texas Hold Em last night then you'll understand that Im not always right. I do feel strongly about it. I said I am sure that there is definetly 2 scum. Me making statements like that is a brash thing to do. I seriously doubt is a better way of putting it. It sounds like Im going back slightly and Ill be honest, I am, however I am still firmly in the no massclaim camp, more specifically the "seriously doubting were in lylo" part of the camp.

[Porochaz]

That makes me sus of Poro.

In a game a played with him, already heavily referenced in this game, there was 3 Mafia and an SK (Town had 3 powers, plus lovers which hurts town). I could link many games where there have been 3 Mafia and an SK. P is just plain BSing when he suggests a 2-man team, especially with a dead doc and RB.

I looked that up, but that game was clearly scewed, we had problems with the roles in that game. Having a game with mafia, SK and lovers was stupid and should of never won, although they did, thanks to jailkeeper skruffs, godfather alvinz (which less face it is a big detriment to mafia), a claiming SK (should NEVER NEVER happen) so the game turned balanced.

[Porochaz]

Im not. Im not stating my play on that game was good or bad, however the problems in that game did exist.

[Porochaz]

Remember you were the SK here.

[Porochaz]

Links to what? Whats your point? Your trying to make a point on a game that was f***ed up. Like all games with alvinz or a claimed SK usually are. The game was terribly unbalanced. You want a link to 2 scum, 3 powerroles? I'll look but I dont think there is a game like that unless scum are uber powerful. In those games there would be 3 scum. What Im trying to say is you as SK changes things.

[Porochaz]

Its like playing pocket aces against pocket 2's if you want to keep going with the Hold Em similie, its very good odds. Besides Xtoxms game in my view doesnt count and the other game I cant remember... and no, if I think its a possibility then it should just be as simple as that, because if were wrong its very damaging to town as weve gone over numerous times and besides you could, and about the faulty premise as Ive said before - when you decided to caps lock me - say the exact same thing about the opposite way

[Porochaz]

1, question, how is that information useful if all our powerroles are dead?

2, pretty sure it was you, earlier on I caps locked you back

3, But then I dont think were in lylo. (deja vu)

Why are we arguing about this again, we should just wait for animorphs opinion and be done.

[Porochaz]

I was trying to write no on my head as a point to what I wrote earlier, I just couldnt get a pen to work on my head (its made of leather, you know) so used hair dye. You can see the no! but its a bit smudged.

[Porochaz]

Thank you to Zorblag and kmd. That answers my question.

Now the question we all want answered massclaim, yay or nay?

[Porochaz]

5 votes to 3, no massclaim. Now to carry on Im going to do a reread on players to see who Ill be voting for...

mod can we get a votecount and the date of the deadline if there is one, thanks

[Porochaz]

Also, the massclaim conversation is a reason to suspect Porochaz. I don't think I've been very clear about that.

Yes, one thing I want to ask poro is why he didn't care if anyone roleclaiming and saying it didn't affect the game day 1 but is against claiming now?

Can you quote the post for me?

Xtoxm have you read the game fully now?

[Porochaz]

What I meant by that is exactly what you said, claiming your role at that point, meant claiming a robot. Thats your role whether it be Bender, Calculon, Hedonismbot or the other robots that appear in futurama, he had claimed he was a robot not what he actually is. Hence using roleclaim in that way. I still dont think it matters. OTOH massclaiming is different as Ive gone into countless times, however although Im sure it wouldnt help Id still post my character if need be.

[Porochaz]

Thats the problem isn't it. I feel with pacmans claim we cant lynch Xtoxm today as much as it would be nice. Its to big a risk.

[Porochaz]

Exam, LA for 2 days

[Porochaz]

Due to my stance I think my vote is obvious, pushing for a massclaim at this time when we dont know we are lylo I think was wrong, kloud and kmd fall into this category, having read through both of them Im going to

vote kmd

[Porochaz]

Before you go out to lynch Xtoxm remember that he has claimed already, making it less likely that hes scum despite the fact he rarely makes a post that you would think is town.

[Porochaz]

Heh 3 mafia... I told all of you but you just wouldnt listen...

[Porochaz]

There was a few problems with this game -

1. Xtoxm, need I say anymore.
2. Myself, insisting massclaim was wrong with 3 people, I still stand by my odds status , the game had a lot more power roles than I would expect is my defense.

I am suprised by the split in for/against massclaim...

[Porochaz]

Massclaim was definetly not the right move if were not definetly in lylo.

[Porochaz]

No there was another wagon, you NEVER self hammer, never as SK, never as townie. You were totally wrong, not "theres only 2 scum" wrong I mean "Accidentally claiming SK, thinking you could get away with a I want to play as town, calling Prozac a mafia rolecop, self hammering twice especially the second time when he didnt have to" wrong.

[Porochaz]

That lynch was not changing. I don't care what you say, i'm happy with my play this game. (Second role)

Yeh, I screwed up with the SK.

There was 2 wagons at that point, one against you and one against scum it could of easily changed and was!!! I will be totally fair here, you were good in that mini normal we were both in when I was scum, I was wrong when I got the number of scum wrong, but I wasn't incorrect about the massclaim, if we weren't sure if we were in lylo or not then there shouldnt be a massclaim without good reason, there wasnt one. You failed as SK, you were doing okay in your second role until you self hammered, that was 100% wrong for reasons above AND YOU NEVER SELF HAMMER (exception is extenuating circumstances as scum). Besides you were a claimed power role... sheesh there was so much wrong with what you did. Now as JDodge would say:

ACCEPT IT!