Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams - Over

[pacman281292]

Vote: RandomGem

DIE AOPS SCUM DIE!
(note: AOPS=math forum)

[pacman281292]

I forgot to say that I will be on V/LA during the next week. Sorry

[pacman281292]

FoS: Brut3Forc3.

We are on MafiaScum, not in AoPS
oh wait

UnFoS, FoS: RandomGem.

Lynch him!

[pacman281292]

Vote on pacman stands for not voting.

I voted randomgem

[pacman281292]

MOD: I'm not FoSing veerus. I'm just FoSing RandomGem.

Darox: I generally agree wit the policies, but a better policy: RandomLynch RandomGem.

[pacman281292]

ow... this V/LA sucks
MOD: Note the same veerus noted.

[pacman281292]

Then Natirasha is something like a lyncher? IDK

[pacman281292]

Unvote, Vote: Cybele.

Cybele, randomvoting is over (I think), and "I feel like it" is NOT reason for voting (I think).
I really hate (and don't understand) your 192. Looks like a false dilemma (I think).

[pacman281292]

posting to avoid being prodded

will make a real post when i understand all the posts

Same here. I'm really confused (and a little busy).

[pacman281292]

A mass claim right now is silly. It's been confirmed that there are at least five sides and, I'm guessing, probably at least twice as many WCs.

Yeah. Massclaim D1 (as I've seen in "normal" games) is something stupid that just works in case of open setups.
But Tar games are not "normal games"...
No. I don't agree with massclaiming. That's (imo) stupid).
@armlx: vig? who commented about that (I've nto payed too many attention, but...) ?

[pacman281292]

Wait, so there are town and scum in the game... they have different names (AOL, Shadow, Vorlon).
Aahh... now I get it . Good point, Kinetic.

[pacman281292]

I do not endorse the race claim as it will have the exact opposite effect Kinetic is saying it will.

... and not claiming it will have the exact effect Kinetic is saying it will. If we ignore the race stuff until late in the game, we will focus back on scumhunting, not in racehunting.

Heavy FoS: Kinetic

for trying to screw the game to all us.

[pacman281292]

I think that we must try to ignore races; we just need to fulfill ONE OF THE WINNING CONDITIONS. Town/scum is enough; let's play it as a normal Mafia game. We most hunt for scum, not keep discussing about WCs.

[pacman281292]

I think that we must try to ignore races; we just need to fulfill ONE OF THE WINNING CONDITIONS. Town/scum is enough; let's play it as a normal Mafia game. We most hunt for scum, not keep discussing about WCs.

-.- Scum?

-.- why?
I think that I don't care about who claims first. I'll vote myself to claim first, but still think that this will be a (little) waste of time. Why? because we are lossing time to scumhunt.

[pacman281292]

It is just a big circle guys. We're all hunting each other and in the end the scum will win. We must ignore these win conditions and work toward the Army of Light win condition.

This. This is exactly my toughts.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!

raceclaim might make some weird greedy guys go on and screw the game against town. That's why I think that we must not WC massclaim. In my opinion, we must only try to ignore the race stuff nowm and possibly make this later.

Please continue to scum hunt. I'm trying to make your job easier and all you're doing is making mine harder. I never said stop looking for scum. If you haven't gained a whole ton of information thanks to all the discussion this has brought up then you haven't been paying attention.

hmm... the problem is that we are unfocusing discussion with all this stuff. Scum possibly is laughing at us while we run in circles with this claim; they have no problem with claiming because they can make a true claim and there is no problem. In my opinion, we must keep hunting through all the stuff we have now, and then go on and keep playing this as a Mafia game.

[pacman281292]

raceclaim might make some weird greedy guys go on and screw the game against town.

I assume Kinetic has information that negates this.

@veerus: 1: Whoops, stupid lazy pacman... I meant raceclaim...
2) Wait, so Shadow and Vorlon have no races?
I have no idea; I've never seen the serie this is based in...

[pacman281292]

oops, malth posted inmediately above me... veerus' post I'm speaking about is:

pacman.. we're not WC claiming.. we're race claiming in an effort of uniting all the AOL races to go after the scum. (kinda like it went in the series.. good job mod, if that's indeed the idea)

[pacman281292]

um what?
What do you mean?! I'm not throwing random stuff; I'm throwing my thoughts. And, yeah, possibly I'm missing some things discussed yet, but I don't see how would this discussion help town to catch scum.

Stop saying that I'm not scumhunting; I just think that this discussion is not the best way for going on. I think that it's better if we ignore our secondary WC rather than yelling it. OK?

And also, the scum can have no problem right now; they can just post an "I agree, please personX claim first because blahblahblah", or whatever they want. And yeah, this is discussion, but I think that this kind of discussion is easy for scum, and we must not let the scum screw us.

Organizing my post part-by-part. Please don't say I'm posting random stuff...
Also, my grammar sucks, and I'm tired. Sorry if you can't understand this.

[pacman281292]

Negative effect like make the game all about what race someone is rather than whether they are scum or not?

"We can't lynch him, if we lynch him there will only be one Bab-5 left and then XYZ can kill him and win!
...
You say it'll stop people from trying to achieve racial victories. This could not be further from the truth.
Without any knowledge of who has what race, people CANNOT focus on their racial win conditions because they don't know who is of that race. They would be taking stabs in the dark and it would be much more profitable for them to focus on their other win conditions, because the racial win is more likely to come through chance and it is better to focus on more tangible goals.
...
Massclaiming races will divide the town and create tension whenever someone of a certain race dies, especially when that race is getting thinned out. I don't want this game to get that racist.

It's a bad idea.

That's what I've tried to say a lot of times. My really bad english and my weird mind (and the fact that I'm busy, and most lately) did screw it all.

[pacman281292]

I think pacman is neutral. He is acting protown, but his reluctance to do the plan suggests to me he has problems with raceclaiming.

I don't have problems with raceclaiming. If it's down to raceclaim, I don't care of when to claim (first, last... no matter). I think that raceclaim is pointless and might divide the town.
Why do you think I'm neutral? Because I don't like raceclaiming? then, OMGOMGOMG! WE HAVE 8 NEUTRALS! MOST WEIRD SETUP EVER!

[pacman281292]

When did we ever say 8 neutrals?

I'm certainly not "neutral", I just have a preference for one mafia

(You hear me, Vorlons?)

. hp is the opposite. I'm fairly sure there is at least one survivor(because there not being one makes us pretty much a strictly easier to win town. That's one(three if you count us, I guess).

VisMaior said that I was neutral because I looked protown and I was against the raceclaim; There are 8 people against raceclaim. So, using that crappy logic, there are 8 neutrals. And it's, either a weird game, or impossible.

[pacman281292]

@Kinetic:
I'm still against. Why did you count me as neutral?

[pacman281292]

hmm... I really don't like how this is going.
5 days to deadline; SERIOUSLY. DO WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO RACECLAIM NOW?
hmm... I insist: if it's down to raceclaim, I want to raceclaim first, still when I think this is completely useless and dangerous for us.
(I mean, mass raceclaim)

[pacman281292]

I insist: there is no time.
hmm... who starts? Are you all completely sure that we must start raceclaiming now? or no? If so, I'll claim tomorrow as early as possible.

[pacman281292]

bleh, I still don't like it.
We must focus on lynchinc/finding suspicions.
But, since we started, let's finish.
I'm Earthforce. And bored.

[pacman281292]

OMG, this is becoming REALLY confusing.
I'm seriously needing to make a whole recheck of the last pages. Please wait.

[pacman281292]

B5:
Veerus
Forbiddanlight
Empking
Mana_Ku
VisMajor

Narn:
Dybeck
Malthusis
Farside
populartajo

LoUW:
armlx
cr3t1n
MafiaSSK

Earthforce:
pacman281292
hp [leaves]
DrippingGoofball

Centauri:
RandomGem
The Internet

Minbari:
Natirasha
Darox
Kinetic

Again without KoC's claim.

And newly added: the WC of the races according to Kinetic.
Minbari: Kill Earthforce and Narn, they are hunted by Babylon 5 and Unaligned Worlds
Earthforce: Kill unaligned and Centauri, are hunted by Babylon 5 and Minbari
Babylon 5: Kill Earthforce and Minbari, are hunted by unaligned and Narn
Centauri: Kill unaligned and Narn, are huned by Narn and Earthforce
Narn: Kill Centauri and B5, are hunted by Minbari and Centauri
Unaligned: Kill B5 and Minbari, are hunted by Centauri and Earth force

The only ones which don't fit are these WC:
Earthforce need to kill LoUW (3) and Centauri (2)
LoUW need to kill B5 (5) and Minbari (3).
B5 need to kill Earthforce (3) and Minbari (3)

Or am I wrong here?

I'm bored, so I'll give you a hint.
Earthforce looks like opposite; actually, we need to kill B5 and Minbari. Not the opposite.
Sorry, I know that this totally screws all, but w/e. That's the truth.

[pacman281292]

OH CRAP OH CRAP OH CRAP I JUST REALIZED THAT DL IS TODAY?!

WC guess in accord to Kinetic, cr3t1n and pacman:
(underlined=confirmed by claim)
Minbari: Kill Unaligned and Earthforce, are hunted by B5 and

Earthforce

Earthforce: Kill

B5

and

Minbari

, are hunted by Narn and Minbari
Babylon 5: Kill Centauri and Minbari, are hunted by Earthforce and Unaligned
Centauri: Kill

unaligned

and

Narn

, are hunted by B5 and Narn
Narn: Kill Earthforce and Narn, are hunted by Minbari and

Centauri

Unaligned: Kill

Centauri

and

B5

, are hunted by Minbari and

Centauri

[pacman281292]

oops... i forgot to underline some ones on the "hunted by", but that's the idea.

[pacman281292]

I can confirm the LoUW win con.

Minbari: Kill Unaligned and Earthforce, are hunted by B5 and Earthforce
Earthforce: Kill B5 and Minbari, are hunted by Narn and Minbari
Babylon 5: Kill Centauri and Minbari, are hunted by Earthforce and Unaligned
Centauri: Kill unaligned and Narn, are hunted by B5 and Narn
Narn: Kill Earthforce and Narn, are hunted by Minbari and Centauri
Unaligned: Kill Centauri and B5, are hunted by Minbari and Centauri

This can't be right, as the Minbari and Centauri WC's would be exactly the same, and you have the Narn committing suicide.

I still laugh at myself... oops.

[pacman281292]

Minbari: Kill Unaligned and Earthforce, are hunted by B5 and Earthforce
Earthforce: Kill B5 and Minbari, are hunted by Narn and Minbari
Babylon 5: Kill Centauri and Minbari, are hunted by Earthforce and Unaligned
Centauri: Kill unaligned and Narn, are hunted by B5 and Narn
Narn: Kill Earthforce and Narn, are hunted by Minbari and Centauri
Unaligned: Kill Centauri and B5, are hunted by Minbari and Centauri

I'm not sure who posted this and when (I'm guessing Kinetic and sometime in the past 17 hours ), but the B5 condition is wrong.

B5 needs to kill EF and Minbari.

I did
I'll correct it inmediately when D2 starts.

[pacman281292]

now what

[pacman281292]

Those three extras are another faction.

Obviously. What faction? Do survivors really count as a faction?

Obviously.

I don't think so.

[pacman281292]

Mana_ku I'm sorry for not having ever played a Deep South setup before. I even asked Tar whether I was a daycop or a regular cop before I went V/LA. I was just confused about it.

Ok, first of all I have no knowledge of the series. When I got my role PM, I had to google Alfred Bester. I'm a cop, not a vig. I have no ability to kill. I don't even think that I have a gun, either. I also have no idea why both I and Mana_ku are still alive. Even if veerus was right and I was a shadow operative and he was a vorlon operative, we'd still both get killed day one.

Now, the possibilities:
1. Malt is scum, probably Vorlon, and is trying to get rid of me as soon as possible.
2. Both Kinetic and Malt are immune to investigation. (fat chance)
3. I got targeted by the vorlon roleblocker and mana got blocked by the shadow roleblocker. (but wouldn't we get a "you got roleblocked" message?)
4. Tar is fucking with us and all the role definitions we got are wrong.

I personally vote 1.

I also don't get why you're voting me off just because I have the ability to kill? I'm still anti-vorlon and I'd be targeting Vorlons. I had no idea that there was an Army of Light or Shadow operatives until RandomGem's role PM was revealed or Nat claimed.

Cops usually do have guns. No matter they don't kill. Also, docs have knives, and they do not kill.
Sorry for not posting; I'm very confused, and overloaded of games (currently playing 7, which is way over my usual limit of 4), but I'll try to keep on this
oh wait, you said shadow operative?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[pacman281292]

@ Pacman, SSK, and cr3tin


My claim:

Another fact dawned upon me as I got my results. I'm now thinking that each of the mafia's faction WC's must have mentioned their anti-factions in them for them to get the idea of claiming them, so this logically means the mafia's win conditions do not require them to kill each other. (And if their mentioned WC's had anti-factions in them, this indeed puts a lot of doubt on the people who claimed the anti-races in the first place). Another hit against Mana_Ku is that I simply don't think that Tar would put a cop in a game without a drawback or restriction.

I am not a cop, I am gunsmith-like role. I got a guilty on [hp]who claimed cop, not vig. He even denies he has any vig powers.

I meant that cops do have guns, so your guilty in hp is not accurate.
It doesn't mean he is not guilty. So, if your case is just that, it's not enough strong.

Maybe it's my advanced age, but I'm unable to read cretin's posts.

I'm 15, and I also can't read his posts. So, it's not your age

[pacman281292]

Possibly intended
hmm... I still don't get malth's case; either his role is not a gunsmith but a "kill detector" (and then hp is lying) or something is going weird here.

[pacman281292]

When one's ability says (You can investigate someone and see if they are able to kill) I'm pretty sure.

hmm... SO WHAT?! DANGEROUS OR KILLER?!

[pacman281292]

If hp shows up as a non-killer, I'll slap you, malth.
(And lynch you, though)

[pacman281292]

If hp comes up as a Psi-cop, then:
a) he is "dangerous" in any weird way (possibly a "kill miller")
b) malth misinterpreted his role PM/his results
c) any weird role screwed the results
d) malth is lying
Using Occam's razor, it would reduce it to a) and d), but that razor is not enough reliable, and I might be wrong.
If not:
a) hp lied.

[pacman281292]

I'm really willing to hammer hp and see what happens.
Sincerely, I have no read on The Internet . I haven't read well his/her posts... and 50 pages of posts are not kind to read...

[pacman281292]

oops... clicked wrong
I'm willing to hammer and see if malth lied or not; however, I'm not completely sure. I need to think carefully, but if nothing new appears, I'll hammer.

[pacman281292]

I'm gonna slap everyone...

[pacman281292]

In other news, pacman is scum.

Also, I don't mind a Minbari win, they've earned it.

unvote, vote: MacavityLock

I'll do something scummy, but serious.

Vote: DrippingGoofball
Extreme FoS: Kinetic, MacavityLock

Unfortunately, your theory is just BS. I'm a vanilla AoL/EF, and if you wish, you can lynch me and proof that.
I'm talking seriously; DGB is scum trying to use others' theories on his favour. Also, keep an eye on Kinetic; his "agreement without words" voting me is really scummy for me.
Macavity... he claimed Scum, and that makes me think that he might possibly have had been a frustrated cult, or possibly a bomb, or scum. Keep a serious eye on him too.
I AM NOT MOVING MY VOTE DURING THIS DAY AT LEAST, OR POSSIBLY TO OTHER OF THE FoSED, AND I'LL KEEP AS ACTIVE AS I CAN IN SUCH WAY I'M NOT REPLACED; IF YOU WANT YOU CAN LYNCH ME AND YOU'LL SEE THAT THEIR THEORY THAT EF IS SCUM IS NOTHING MORE THAN BS.

[pacman281292]

Lynch me. Just that, and you will see; I'm telling the truth.
Seriously. I know that sounded OMGUSy, but that's what I see on your theory of "Narn an EF must die in order to let Town win".

[pacman281292]

And BTW: You misinterpreted the part of activity. I don't want to be replaced, so I'll keep active. I have things to say.

[pacman281292]

I just realized that you stated something funny in your post.
I meant that, if I'm voting someone today, it's one of you three. Yeah, Kinetic, your efforts on trying to win the game are good, but the way you believed DGB's theory of "EF+Narn=SCUM" made my eyes explode. You three are (to me) some of the scummiest players on the game. There are some players, I haven't paid attention to, but I'm completely sure that the theory of EF is scum is nothing more than BS, and my role PM itself contradicts that.

[pacman281292]

EBWOP: Cross-posted.
that's supposed to be to Kinetic.

[pacman281292]

OMG I HUNTED YOU DGB
THAT MOVE WAS OBV


I knew it. "Fight for WC" crushed us. I hate you (Kinetic), and I can't believe no one listened me. Effectively; WC goals went over. Good job, kinetic. I hate you.