Read Your Role Mafia - Game Over

[charter]

vote shadowgirl

This isn't a joke and is serious. We need to lynch her now on the chance she is scum. If she is then we are already screwed!

[charter]

(That was actually a joke by the way)

[charter]

Ok, we're on page 4 and nobody's really given me an excuse yet. Who are we bandwagoning? I sort of hate bandwagoning entirely at random, but we're almost at that point.

A shadowgirl wagon would be good.

[charter]

A Sens wagon would be dumb, he is town I am fairly sure.

[charter]

Oh boy, I seem to be picking up votes like it's my job. The reason why I think Sens is town is the way he's arguing about completely pointless things (in my opinion) which he did against scum in another game I was in with him.

I will also join the ooba wagon since the SG one never materialized (which probably means a loss for the town).

unvote, vote ooba

I only agree with his being too wagon hopping happy.

[charter]

@SG, we need to lynch you before you can pull your alignment changing wizardry

1- Agreed. Also, there are plenty of others doing this (to a greater degree) as well.
2- I've only played in one game with him, but I've read several other games he's been in, so I do feel confident in my read (for page 5). That's the best I had to go on when I posted it. Is it set in stone? Of course not.

Going back and rereading a little and some questions,
forbidden, why wait so long to vote me?
Caboose, why only vote after Yaw tells you to? Not even going to wait for my answer? Already decided you don't like it, eh?
ooba, going to vote me for pressure, but what are you even pressuring me for? Or was I just randomly picked?

Wish there had been something else to question upon since my last post. I'm actually amazed that I'm catching flack for that one statement, when most of my posts are saying 'wagon her' or 'don't wagon him'.

[charter]

@Caboose, I took this to mean that you wanted me to explain why I was so confident Sens is town on page 5.

Nope. But it was sure fun. Thinking on it, the way charter is pushing pro town sens is unsettling.

Unvote, vote charter

I would like to know why charter is so confident that Sens is town on page 4. Please.

Then you go to voting me without giving me a chance to explain. It seemed, to me, that you'd already decided that my declaration was enough to warrent a vote, regardless of my explanation. The only thing in between your first request and your vote was Yaw telling you to vote me.

[charter]

So what is the point of those again? There really isn't anything else to say for those voting me. If you want to lynch me over that, I've already explained, so be it.

Ooba, why jump wagons so much?

[charter]

Fair enough, I personally didn't see any usage for them, but I generally don't go after lurkers. (I was talking about the lists by the way).

[charter]

I also find it interesting that the charter bandwagon lost steam very quickly - while I'd like MafiaSSK to be more specific, I think there's some value to whatever meta he's seen. I also think that charter's posts, especially the one of being sure that SensFan is town, is scummy.

So

unvote, vote: charter

Let me get this straight. So my meta read on Sens is that he is town, and using that is scummy. MafiaSSK's meta read on me is that I am scum, and using that is the best course of action? How is the situation any different?

Same thing for the others who hold this belief.

[charter]

I actually find SSK's read irrelevant to my vote.

Your vote I understand. I'm looking for reasons from the others (using MafiaSSK's meta read).

So you want us to stall?

That isn't what he said, or implied, at all.

[charter]

I haven't seen anything from charter trying to defend himself, which is odd. Did I miss a post or something?

post 130

Electra, answer my questions.

[charter]

post 130

Oh your deflection. Yeah, no.

Vote stands.

Did you read my post? I'll go ahead and quote for you my defense.

The reason why I think Sens is town is the way he's arguing about completely pointless things (in my opinion) which he did against scum in another game I was in with him.

That's the reason I said what I said. I don't understand what else anyone is looking for.

If you mean why I haven't defended against MafiaSSK's 'case', what is there to defend? He has an airtight case of how I played as town in two games. I play differently in all my games.

[charter]

How did I "randomly" do anything? I haven't done anything random this game. I said I voted ooba for wagon hopping. It lets him use whatever reason for voting he pleases after he sees people's reactions to his vote. Sociopath had a good post in 171 showing this. I don't think it's protown to do this.

Since my vote he hasn't done much to lift suspicion. I think SocioPath's orginal questioning of ooba was really good, and ooba weaseled his way out of it when SP got confused by ooba's hypethetical and by some poor wording by SP.

Unvote

As I look on, the case for ooba gets weaker. And weaker. And weaker. I can see some benefit to continuing on with it, but way less than I previously thought. I really still want to hear more of that meta before voting for Charter. *kicks MafiaSSK* Get moving!

Already decided you're going to vote for me, so why do you need to wait for SSK?

[charter]

I don't agree with that, but I understand how someone else would think it works.

@Sens, it goes to that newbie game where you were arguing with Romanus. A lot of what you were posting was (in my opinion) dumb. I saw the 'why would a pro-town role vote themselves' arguing to be identical in nature as your 'scum trying to appear helpful one' in NG 638.

[charter]

Ok, well I saw them as both being very obvious answers that you can generate an argument out of thin air for.

Yaw, basically everyone in the game is waiting on SSK or ooba, until they post, or people try and look elsewhere, it's probably not going to get better.

[charter]

Yaw, basically everyone in the game is waiting on SSK or

ooba

, until they post, or people try and look elsewhere, it's probably not going to get better.

Who is waiting for me exactly?

Sorry, I thought I'd asked you a question, I went back and realized I didn't. Here is one though.
Why did you hold off giving reasons for your votes, and then changing the reasons after you had gave them the first time? SP had a good post explaining it,

You have made two serious votes this game in a short amount of time.
You weren't the first for either of them and just hopped from one to the other.
Your statement that you weren't going to random vote means that yes, both of your votes were serious.

The reason you stated voting for Natirasha: ______
Later reason: Not random.
Even later reason: "Obvious" because he hadn't posted.


The reason you stated voting for charter: ______
Later reason: Pressure
Even later reason: Him saying he thinks Sens is town.


Generally it is best to at least have a reason first before voting, especially if you imply that everyone of your votes has reason, as opposed to voting first and covering yourself with reasons later as more develops. Especially when stating that everyone of your votes has reason with the statement of you not random voting.

But I'm not saying you were indecisive, because you weren't, I want to know why you didn't give your reasons when you initially voted, and then later changed them. Twice.

[charter]

Alright,

unvote

Why did we have to pry to get your reasons from you?

[charter]

Perhaps I can save you all some time. I didn't even bother checking the games that he listed until now. One of them I wasn't even in (530). No idea where that's coming from.

[charter]

I'm doing amazingly poor play for myself in this game. I am fine with myself being a deadline lynch.

vote MafiaSSK

[charter]

I've agreed with basically everything SP's said. I still think he's right, and I don't think he's scum. I certainly don't think he's 85% scum. MafiaSSK acted terribly anti-town today and if he keeps doing it it will be impossible to win.

[charter]

Well, we wasted practically all of day one waiting on him, all for nothing. Whos to say it won't happen tomorrow? What if he just declares someone else scum, doesn't elaborate and we waste D2?

I know he's been very anti-town, and I'm not convinced on Electra so he's the best option.

[charter]

Electra, do you think SocioPath is town or scum?

[charter]

I don't think SP is scum, I think MafiaSSK is.

[charter]

Sens, why are you instructing SSK? It also seems like you're giving him a free pass, why.

[charter]

Hunt Scum well enough to avoid a lynch. Don't hunt Scum well enough to be killed.

At this point, you need to focus on the first part. Especially since you claimed a non-Town role.

That looks like instructions to me. That's saying more than just scumhunt.

[charter]

After deep thinking...I didn't like the Sociopath lynch. After his roleclaim, I quickly backed off. I thought his roleclaim was solid and really have no idea why people continued to vote for him. The case against him was incredibly weak.

Why are you bringing this up today? When it does absolutely no good? If you actually thought this, you should have brought it up yesterday.

I also find charter suspicious for being very pro-Sociopath near the end of yesterday- he talked about not finding SP suspicious and agreeing with him and such - it would be a mafia thing to do since he knew that SP would turn up townie.

Go back and reread how I pretty consistantly thought he was doing good scumhunting. Not just at the end of the day.

[charter]

Some thoughts as I go through.

Still have issues with charter. Yes, there's that original tell. But there's also the nice post while SocioPath was being wagoned in which he says he strongly believes SocioPath is town, and agrees with everything SocioPath has said. (As a side note, what the hell? I find this incredibly hard to believe, if charter actually read SocioPath's posts.) Looks like he could have been setting up the old "I told you so."

When I say I told you so, you can pull this out. I agreed with what SP was saying, hence why I thought he wasn't scum.

Unlike charter, it doesn't look like Seraphim set up an "I told you so" yesterday. That said, he's definitely trying to take advantage of the mislynch today.

He didn't set himself up maybe, but now he's trying to pull it today. However, I don't view it as scummy (I understand that others do).

vote MafiaSSK

because I still think he's scum.

[charter]

Can we get prods?

MafiaSSK hasn't done anything remotely protown, but has done plenty of scummy things, so I still want to lynch him.

[charter]

Holy crap. Good work Kinetic! Can not believe you pulled that out for us. I will go ahead and nominate you for some scummies, that was a great performance you did when your predecessors did you no favors.

Sens also did good getting someone besides himself lynched.

Great work Caboose too, vigging 2/3 of the mafia was damn good. I actually thought Yaw was a PGO, didn't realize it could be a vig.

I thought this was a good game, it was a nail biter the last few days. Thanks for modding PJ!