Read Your Role Mafia - Game Over

[wolframnhart]

vote<1>d<12>[/dice]

[wolframnhart]

EBWOP:
(god i suck at tags sometimes}

bah screw it, can't do the dice thing LoL

vote caboose

cuz everyone knows Church is the coolest character in Red vs Blue

[wolframnhart]

lol gotta keep that meta up huh forbiddan?

[wolframnhart]

LoL i just read it cuz i had to see it myself, good stuff there.

Also, how DO you do he dice thing? I got it wrong obviously and couldn' figure it out.

[wolframnhart]

thanks yaw ^_^

[wolframnhart]

any real reason to that?

[wolframnhart]

Damn you mafiassk! This sounds like your policy lynch you wanted to do against me before

[wolframnhart]

No one ever wants to distance me T_T

[wolframnhart]

damn that hurts

[wolframnhart]

I wonder if the mafia can recruit.

Bit of an odd thing to be wondering, isn't it? You know, given the posted role PMs and who our mod is.

How is it odd? never played a petrolium game before so is his modding style different or something>

[wolframnhart]

Even though i don't see the "having a birthday!" thing under your avatar Sens, the sight says it is your b-day soooo
Happy B-day.

[wolframnhart]

so you didn't want to random vote....
then why the vote on nat?

[wolframnhart]

if it isn't random, what is the reasoning behind it then?

[wolframnhart]

Voting for someone who votes for himself is stupid. If there was a Joker role, he wouldn't make it obvious like that.

Why would a pro-Town role ever vote themselves?

I dunno either, but from what I understand, nat does this every game, is that right? Not that this clears him in anyway of course.

[wolframnhart]

unvote, vote ooba

First you say you don't want to random vote, then you vote Nat on page three. When i ask you about it, you say it isn't a random vote, but never explain why you voted for him. Next you unvote Nat, again with no explanation, and now 2 pages later you jump on the Charter wagon with, once again, no explanation of why.

[wolframnhart]

1)no it was not obvious, and I don't see the point of voting someone if you aren't stating why, because then it could be for any reason you come up with, much like your reason for the Nat vote.

2)Why do you feel charter needs pressure? because that is where three other votes where before yours? or do you have any other reason aside from following a few people on this one?

[wolframnhart]

So you are upset that I had a problem with ooba's voting methods and took away from a wagon that you wanted to happen? And how was it the first band wagon? Wouldn't you call the first band wagon Nat's, then charter, then ooba?

[wolframnhart]

So you are upset that I had a problem with ooba's voting methods and took away from a wagon that you wanted to happen? And how was it the first band wagon? Wouldn't you call the first band wagon Nat's, then charter, then ooba?

Two votes do not make a bandwagon, and there were only ever two votes on Natirasha at one time. Concurrently, there were also two votes on Sens, and a variety of others (including myself) had two votes on them due to random voting. So no, Natirasha was certainly not the first bandwagon, and given Natirasha's consistency in voting for himself, a bandwagon on him at that time had little merit. The charter-wagon is the first bandwagon of the game that is based on anything approaching evidence.

My actual concern isn't that another bandwagon happened. It's that it occurred right after the fourth vote, at the point when the charter-wagon could actually be called a bandwagon, and was directed at ooba for...well, voting. (What did you really expect him to say? Two people had already explained why what charter said was suspicious, and it was based on one sentence. Do you really expect everyone voting on a bandwagon to repeat the same evidence over and over?) Given the timing and lack of justification for the ooba-wagon, I could see it as an attempt to deliberately derail the charter-wagon. If so, that is definitely suspicious.

1)If you count Nat's vote on himself, which i do a vote is a vote, there were three votes on him at any given time before people voted charter.
2)I don't care if he regurgitates his reason is the same as another persons, it is a reason, and that is the point. I am not going to guess why someone votes another person if they don't say why, they just vote and expect us to know why.
3)If you want to go on his voting partern, forbiddenlight voted nat first for not posting, then he second vote was ooba's. then ooba unvotes because nat posts (if you want to take ooba's reasoning as to why he voted in the first place) then he just goes ahead and votes charter because everyone else was. Even if he agreed with their reasoning he could have at least said so, because all i see right now is him voting where ever anyone else is at the time he reads the post.

[wolframnhart]

2)I don't care if he regurgitates his reason is the same as another persons, it is a reason, and that is the point. I am not going to guess why someone votes another person if they don't say why, they just vote and expect us to know why.

You're on your own on that one, then. Don't expect people to parrot other's reasoning, when its pretty clear why they're voting, like in this case.

That's absolutely fine with me Sens, i don't mind being on my own. As it is, there are 5 votes on charter now, so him being at L-3 I think yaw getting touchy that people didn't keep going on charter's wagon is a little weird.

FoS yaw

[wolframnhart]

Electra, why not just hit the watch topic button so you don't have to remember about the forum par itself? You can have all your games in one area...

[wolframnhart]

ooba's posts have been not anti-town to me, in fact he has defended himself very well and for now i am going to

unvote ooba

I am still not sold on the charter wagon right now, in fact I am not really liking Electra's vote on charter.

Okay, I promise to post more from now on, if I can remember this forum.

But anyway, I don't find ooba suspicious right now, as he started the game by saying that he didn't want to random vote, which I don't think scum would have done. It's too unnecessary when scum can just vote and blend in.

I also find it interesting that the charter bandwagon lost steam very quickly - while I'd like MafiaSSK to be more specific, I think there's some value to whatever meta he's seen. I also think that charter's posts, especially the one of being sure that SensFan is town, is scummy.

So

unvote, vote: charter

For her third post of the game (one which she apparently can't even remember) she jumps onto the biggest wagon, and with little reasoning. She says "some value to

whatever

meta he's (mafiassk) seen." Whatever meta doesn't sound to me like she has read it, understood it, and completely agrees with it. This seems more like a "Oh crap i am active lurking/not paying attention. Um Um let's see... charter has alot of votes on him, i'll just go with that."

FoS Electra

until I get better clarification of her post.

[wolframnhart]

It's not so much a complaint. You barely even remember this thread is here, and on your third post you went on the biggest bandwagon, and before that you didn't really do anything but comment on how you couldn't remember about this game. And it doesn't even sound like you read anything about Mafiassk's meta he has against charter because you said "whatever meta." Yet some how you saw enough of the "meta" to say it is a good enough case against charter to vote him, when you are also saying you want clarification on the meta, it just doesn't make sense to me.

[wolframnhart]

Really not liking how MafiaSSK basically brought up the meta thing against charter, then all his posts have been one liners (mostly) just saying things like "he played more agressive" "This game is the one" etc. then he has not really said a word.

[wolframnhart]

I agree with Caboose here. MafiaSSK has had plenty of time to post up on elaborating on his Meta against charter, was prodded and says he will catch up but three days later still has not done so and posts else where, and i still don't like the "Charter is scum i know cuz of meta" then drops off the game.

vote MafiaSSK

[wolframnhart]

You don't have to read. You just have to answer two things:

1 -- Provide specifics on what you meant by charter's meta.

2 -- Explain how your use of meta on charter is different from his use of meta on Sensfan, if you believe these uses are different.

You can read for other stuff afterwards.

He's pretty clearly stalling for time. Not only does he not have to read anything, but the thread is so small that he can''t possibly be "still reading". I mean, since he claimed he had to re-read, I've read the entirety of Kingmaker II...

QFT

[wolframnhart]

forbidden (or anyone other than me, for the sake of making sure SP doesn't call it OMGUS), do you agree with how bad it was that I'm supposedly scummy for posting 2 mins after him?

I don't believe it is scummy at all because I have voted or posted after someone before only because I did not preview before posting. And to nit pick after someone for two whole minutes is just ridiculous. Had it been two days, i could see SP's point, but it wasn't so it almost seems like he is just trying to attack whatever he can out of Sens posting.

[wolframnhart]

I'm going to try to fit in a reread.

In the meantime, while SSK is a safe lynch for today (either he's a survivor and thus his lynch doesn't hurt us, or he's lying scum), he has posted in other threads that he's V/LA until Friday. I'd advise trying to find scum among the players that are currently around in the meantime, and if we have nothing promising by then we can go with the more obvious lynch.

Not to sure i agree here Yaw. I do agree with finding scum amongst other people while SSK is apparently V/LA, but to say he is a safe lynch..
You could be right, he could be lying scum and we get a good lynch today, but to say he is survivor and (if he wasn't lying about that) his lynch would be safe i don't quite follow unless i am thinking about this the wrong way. Lynching him if he is survivor could mean two more townies (three if there was a doc block on one person) could be dead at night and that isn't a good thing at all.

[wolframnhart]

Give mafia some time, yes it's friday but a)it's the start of the weekend b)its halloween and c) things can come up

[wolframnhart]

Why do you like a MafiaSSK lynch? You vote for MafiaSSK but spend the entire post attacking me. And seeing as I've already posted my defense on all of your points, I don't feel a need to repeat myself.

And I don't think your defense really fits. I'll try to get more specific when I have more time. As for MafiaSSK, he's first a claimed survivor, and second, has been incredibly scummy in that he hasn't said anything helpful and he hasn't even been trying to put his thoughts out there.

I agree with Forbidden here, but would it be better to try and find someone who is actual scum? I realize survivor isn't a town role, but would it be best to save SSK's lynch until another date? Only reason i ask is everyone seems to be voting him due to his survivor role and if we analyze the wagon tomorrow it might be harder to pick apart what scum members might have been on the wagon (i realize he has acted scummy but survivor role seems to be the main point in the votes)

[wolframnhart]

Hmm good point.

[wolframnhart]

Why would you automatically think it is a pro-town vigilante electra? Even if you did say "maybe" it is an odd conclusion to immediately jump to.

[wolframnhart]

Not sure if Electra has really helped much here. First, charter could have tried to give Sens a townie pass incase he (charter) got lynched people could go back and say "Oh charter said he thought sens was townie and was trying to buddy up" much like Electra did. Electra's post also shows that (if she is telling the truth) that sens and serph are not of the same alignment, but it is not stated what aligenment either of them are, just that they are different. If we lynch one and said person turns town, then scum can get a kill in before their mate is lynched the next day. Or as Sens said Electra can be pulling off a gambit here, by lynching one and setting up the other person for the next days lynch by saying if one dies and is town the other is the opposite aligenment.

[wolframnhart]

@Ser

I did not see the wagon against Charter at the time on Day 1, I think i made that apparent. A person said they believed to be another to be town, looking back yes that could easily be seen now that Charter had more info then others, but at the time it to me seemed an innocent remark. You say i chalenged ooba, but lets not forget you went after ooba as well. And you agree MafiaSSKs case against charter on meta sucks balls, yet because i stop a wagon on charter wagon based on crappy case that didn't even hold with other players i give you weird vibes?

In the end, i don't see Sens flipping scum, you on the other hand I do Seraph

vote Seraphim

[wolframnhart]

I don't see Sens as scum because his play hasn't (in my opinion) seemed scummy. Yes he has broken down Electra's claim, and i believe that to be a good thing, to really see if she is telling the truth.

Seraphim on the other hand has acted scummy, and his last post made me believe he is scum due to his pointing out that i attacked ooba for his vote against charter, yet he neglects to mention that he also voted ooba for basically the same reason as i did, yet i am the scummy one for it?

unvote, vote ooba

First you say you don't want to random vote, then you vote Nat on page three. When i ask you about it, you say it isn't a random vote, but never explain why you voted for him. Next you unvote Nat, again with no explanation, and now 2 pages later you jump on the Charter wagon with, once again, no explanation of why.

Sorry about not posting lately; real life has been kicking me around in the shins the last week and probably will to some extent this week as well. I'll try to be more active, however. Here's my thoughts on stuff:

MafiaSSK: Your case on Charter is weak. While I do find his entire 'I'm fairly certain Sens is town' statement very...odd...it's not enough for to qualify for a vote. Ooba has been acting way more oddly with his random bandwagon jumping. Still, I don't see why had to pry information from your cold, dead fingers about his meta; if that's your case, be more specific.

Ooba: I covered this above, but your bandwagon jumping, IMO, is scummy as hell. Not to mention you stated that you hated random voting. I don't like that in the slightest.

Charter: I want to know why you are so certain Sens is town. It's very easy that it's his meta. That's fine, IMO, but if that's your only reason, then I'm not just taking your word for it.

Nat: Post moar. You didn't post much until prodded and you haven't posted since your meta discussion was completed. Lurking is frowned upon.

From my perspective: I think we should lynch Ooba until I see otherwise. His obvious following the leader with no reasoning of his own. Also, not much activity. Also, a hatred of random voting, even while random voting leads to discussion and scum-finding. IMO, all scum behavior.

Unvote, Vote: ooba

bolded I did. See first even he believes that MafiaSSK's case against charter is weak, yet again he points out in his last post that i give off an odd vibe for stopping the charter wagon. And he says it is odd i went after ooba, but again as you can see he gave just about the same reasoning that I had given before for voting ooba, and yet he says i am scummy seeming or it? Doesn't add up to me.

[wolframnhart]

I think i explained what i think about Sens reaction to Electra's claim, and his nitpicking as you call it of her role, on my previous post. Are you asking for me to elaborate?

[wolframnhart]

I think that Sens thought that you had misreped his words, and thats all. I don't believe he crapped all over Electra's night choices per se, just that he found them suspect because Electra based her first night choice on the fact that she believes Sens to be town, and Sep to be scum. I find it odd that for a cop role she isn't given the alignment, just that they are different, but the roles have been strange so far so i can't say anything on that. Is it bad for a person to criticize a claimed cops choices? No, especially since Sens is right, Electra did throw in the "i can't target myself" part. The doctor excuse Electra gave means nothing to me, because don't most doctor roles say you can't target yourself at night? Cop roles i have never seen say that, but maybe thats because most people would not need to be told that.

Does that explain my stance on it more or is there something i missed that you want an answer to Caboose?

[wolframnhart]

But to follow Electra's lead would be to vote you isn't it?

[wolframnhart]

It's simple; if SensFan flips town, then Electra is scum.

If SensFan is scum, then Electra is mostly likely town.

Vote stands. SensFan, now is a good time to claim.

Completely forgot to comment on this post by Seraphim. In a nut shell i don't like it. If Sens gets lynched today and flips town, then Seraphim is already calling Electra a liar about her role, trying to forgo the fact that based on her claim that if Sens flips town that he must be scum. So Seraphim is cool with going along with Electra's claim as cop and voting Sensfan, but not if Sens flips town (which I think Seraphim knows will happen and is therefore trying to cover his ass the next day).

[wolframnhart]

@ Tamuz - I had to reread your post several times to make sense of it. I'm not sure about Shadowgirl's modkill - while it did say she could be modkilled, it told her what would cause this, and so I think she would probably prevent it?

Tamuz didn't mention Shadowgirl specifically, so why would you assume he meant her death out of the others?

[wolframnhart]

Caboose, I also have a question for you: did you send in a night action last night? If you're some sort of power role, then it's very probable that Electra is actually the one lying here. Because if Sens really is telling the truth, then Electra is clearly lying scum. We have both claimed town at this point. We should try and attempt to see if you have any sort of power role in order to prove SensFan's roleclaim.

Because I certainly didn't send in any night actions last night. I'm just vanilla.

I'll describe my role later, but yes, I do have a night action.

Will wait to read this.

[wolframnhart]

I am not avoiding talking about the trio at all, i have given my thoughts about them Tamuz, an deven placed my vote on who i believe to be the most scummy. The reason i am waiting to see Caboose's claim is because Sens has outted a power role by claiming his role. Now depending on Caboose's role claim and what it is he did last night with his role could give the town a lot of useful information, and help us figure out who the remaining scum are.

[wolframnhart]

What would its use be to scum? Wouldn't an information finding role like that be more pro-town? Otherwise it is just giving scum more information on possible power roles for them to kill off.

[wolframnhart]

Not really much for me to do here because it seems you are all voting me just because we are near deadline. I still find Ser the most scummy, and Tamuz with his sudden MIA status makes me think he is content to sit back and watch people argue.

[wolframnhart]

Very true, and it looks like i will have to claim now, being as people have jumped onto my wagon, and i am sure one of them is scum.

I am a Survivor Town Person. Once per night I can send in a guess at what group will kill me. if i guess right, I win. If I am alive at end game with at least one town member I win.

As it is, it is strange to see no one going after Seraphim after most seemed to come to the conclusion that Sens is pro-town, just to see if Electras claim is what she says it is.

[wolframnhart]

Doesn't say, just says scum group. At first I was told i had to pick THE person that would do the killing, but PJ amended that and said i can just pick a player and if he/she is in that scum group that kills me then it counts as me picking the right person.

[wolframnhart]

yes i said group at first, it was a mistake on my part because of the amendment to my role later on that i stated in my second post. My original role pm said i had to pick the person that would do the killing, then was told afterwards i could pick a person and if that person group killed me it still counted, so there could be more then one group, and by that PJ might have meant Cabooses ability i don't know i am not PJ. I am not saying Caboose was lying i am just saying what my role said. I already gave the role name. I don't see the role being that much more different then a townie role so to have itbe unfair i don't think so but to each his/her own.

[wolframnhart]

EBWOP:
night 1 i picked sens fan, night 2 i picked charter. These choices were not based on anything but picking randomly. The results tell me nothing about either alignment (though now we know charter is scum) all it tells me is if they are scum, someone in their group did not try to kill me.

[wolframnhart]

I just don't see the Sens lynch honestly. He has an info gathering role, one that i believe to be pro-town. He knew you did something caboose, just not what, and it ends up you killed charter, which is a good thing. I think the most info without loosing a role that could help town would be Sera personally.

[wolframnhart]

If Sens flips town, I will attack Electra until she is dead.

Don't like this part by Sera, he is setting up tomorrows lynch because i believe he knows sens will flip town, and so he is trying to cast doubt on electra.

[wolframnhart]

Wow, no i am not scum, but you will see that and hopefully you will take a much closer look at Sera tomorrow. Good luck town.