Mafia 86 - mafia.gif - Game Over!

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote: Jebus

because wagon.

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote; Shadowgirl

Voting using dice tages = scum.

Vote; Shadowgirl

Voting using dice tages = scum

my

.

Fixed.

Unvote, Vote: ooba

for rushing to SG's defense.

[Erratus Apathos]

Im bored.
Im vanilla.
Discuss.

Unvote, Vote: populartajo

There is absolutely no valid reason whatsoever for a townie to claim like that. More votes for tajoscum please.

It wasn't "Oops, RANDOM!", it was always a joke.

...and what exactly was funny about it?

[Erratus Apathos]

Notice the Im bored.

Notice the "valid".

[Erratus Apathos]

So, uhh...how exactly does

claiming vanilla

alleviate boredom?

[Erratus Apathos]

So, uhh...how exactly does

claiming vanilla

alleviate boredom?

Also, how does Stef's avatar make him more likely to be a newb?

[Erratus Apathos]

unvote vote BlackAdder

votes Skitzer when skitzer gets heat.

comes in and throws suspicion on Pop and Stef, when they are getting heat.

vote count comes out with Pop leading, he votes Pop.

I dont mind bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagon day 1, but this looks like he is trying act like he is participating, while adding nothing knew, scum hunting, or asking any questions.

Because you're trying to shift suspicion off of Stef, and along with Stef voting you, it looks like scum distancing.

Now Pop is "scummy" because he is attempting to deflect a Stef wagon, but he is also scummy because Stef is voting him. These are all silly stretches.

What are your current thoughts on Cybele, tar, skitzer, armlx, and now myself. Do you have a completed game where you were scum that you can provide a link for?...a good link when you were town and felt like you played well?

FoS: CKD

textbook chainsawing

[Erratus Apathos]

wow, been playing this game for over a year...never heard the term chainsawing..please define.

Chainsawing: Attacking a player (BlakAdder) in a manner that discourages their attack on a third player (populartajo).

Now that BA's had a chance to defend himself, I'll go into more detail.

1. CKD rips out the context of BA's wagon hops.

unvote vote BlackAdder

votes Skitzer when skitzer gets heat.

comes in and throws suspicion on Pop and Stef, when they are getting heat.

vote count comes out with Pop leading, he votes Pop.

I dont mind bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagon day 1, but this looks like he is trying act like he is participating, while adding nothing knew, scum hunting, or asking any questions.

CKD makes a fair bit of effort to show that BA jumped on popular wagons, conveniently ignoring his reasons for getting on those wagons, in an effort to label him a wagon-hopper. This comes off as disingenuous and opportunistic, and not at all like legitimate scumhunting.

2. CKD attacks BA for logical fallacies regarding Tajo.

Because you're trying to shift suspicion off of Stef, and along with Stef voting you, it looks like scum distancing.

Now Pop is "scummy" because he is attempting to deflect a Stef wagon, but he is also scummy because Stef is voting him. These are all silly stretches.

This section attempts to show that BA is wrong. Actually, it doesn't even do that; it only says that BA is wrong, but bear with me. Showing that he's wrong is fine, but it does dick-all to show that he's

scum

. Why, then, did CKD attack him for being wrong? Discrediting the Tajo attack is a pretty good guess.

3. CKD focuses on the weakest link.

What's CKD's opinion on Tajo, or the rest of the Tajo wagon? He didn't say anything about them. He put the spotlight on the "silly stretches", ignoring the real case.

These three things all together tell me that he's trying to chainsaw on behalf of Tajo.

[Erratus Apathos]

Tajo, you done stalling yet? Or do you still need more time to think up believable answers for these questions:

So, uhh...how exactly does

claiming vanilla

alleviate boredom?

Also, how does Stef's avatar make him more likely to be a newb?

[Erratus Apathos]

Not impressed by the BA case.

Vote: Cybele

I still expect an answer to this:

It wasn't "Oops, RANDOM!", it was always a joke.

...and what exactly was funny about it?

[Erratus Apathos]

@Erratus; okay. How am I supposed to answer that anyways? It seems to me to be more of a snide comment than a real inquisition. Okay. It wasn't funny. Is that what you'd like me to say?

When your early Skitzer vote was called into question, you backed off and said you were just being funny. Now that I called that defense into question, you're backing off from it too?

[Erratus Apathos]

Backing off how? i maintain that that post was a joke, and it was always meant to be one. And the only reason I'm saying it wasn't funny now is because you seem determined that it was serious. So yeah, I admit it may have been a bad joke, but it certainly wasn't serious.

Then you're capable of explaining how it was meant to be a joke? Because I'm pretty sure that's what I asked you to do.

[Erratus Apathos]

unvote, vote skitzer

Who unvotes and then doesn't revote during the random voting stage? Scum, that's who.

same bullshit attack was used on me in invitational 8 to hang my townie has Day 1.....not believing this line from a "newbie"

unvote, vote cybele

EA, your voting Cybele Day 2 after all the shit that has gone down for that?

Unvote, Vote: curiouskarmadog

[Erratus Apathos]

your reason for voting cybele was completely different from mine.

I voted her Day 1 because she attacked skitzer for unvoting but not revoting...you are voting her

Not impressed by the BA case.

Vote: Cybele

I still expect an answer to this:

It wasn't "Oops, RANDOM!", it was always a joke.

...and what exactly was funny about it?

you are voting her because you want her to explain a joke...

unless I am not understanding why you are voting her....was cybele stating that her skitzer vote was a random joke vote?

Yes you and I didn't have exactly the same reason for voting, but that's not the point. The point is that yesterday you voted Cybele for the "random" skitzer vote. Then she lurked for the rest of the day, and today you pushed BA's wagon instead. What sets off my radar is when I pressure Cybele for the things you were supposedly curious about day 1 and she never explained, you now try to draw my vote off of her like it's a bad thing. You can say "BA is a higher priority!" all you want here, but if you were legitimately suspicious towards Cybele's random revote you wouldn't have any problem with my questioning of her even if you felt BA was scummier. That you did have a problem with it, indicates to me that you don't have the townie curiosity.

[Erratus Apathos]

ok going back, it looks like EA IS indeed asking Cybele to explain her explanation for voting skitzer as a joke,, so I think i misunderstood there. But the question still stands. given all the shit that happened yesterday, you are still harping on that? Might be worth looking at it later, but it is not enough to blatantly ignore what is going on today....I think BA is a much better lynch. You said you didnt like the BA case...why? What part of it do you not like? Seems to me that his actions yesterday should be at least warranting some sort of alarms, but you just seem to ignore it. And you dont find the fact that Emp is dodging my question interesting either?

I'm not ignoring BA. I came right out and said that I don't find him suspicious, I'd think that would imply that I'm paying attention to him.

Once you get past BA's misuse of the word "clear", the main argument against him boils down to "he linked tajo to Stef". Which is true, but his reasons for linking them, and for attacking tajo rather than Stef, made sense at the time. Am I really supposed to believe that a townie couldn't read tajo's "give Stef some slack because he has a South Park avatar" bullshit and draw a connection? That makes sense to me.

Unless the wagon on BA is

because

he misused the word "clear", in which case I should EBWOP a few million "really"s onto my "not impressed" post.

What question did Empking dodge? I don't see it.

[Erratus Apathos]

ok going back, it looks like EA IS indeed asking Cybele to explain her explanation for voting skitzer as a joke,, so I think i misunderstood there. But the question still stands. given all the shit that happened yesterday, you are still harping on that? Might be worth looking at it later, but it is not enough to blatantly ignore what is going on today....I think BA is a much better lynch. You said you didnt like the BA case...why? What part of it do you not like? Seems to me that his actions yesterday should be at least warranting some sort of alarms, but you just seem to ignore it. And you dont find the fact that Emp is dodging my question interesting either?

I'm not ignoring BA. I came right out and said that I don't find him suspicious, I'd think that would imply that I'm paying attention to him.

Once you get past BA's misuse of the word "clear", the main argument against him boils down to "he linked tajo to Stef". Which is true, but his reasons for linking them, and for attacking tajo rather than Stef, made sense at the time. Am I really supposed to believe that a townie couldn't read tajo's "give Stef some slack because he has a South Park avatar" bullshit and draw a connection? That makes sense to me.

Unless the wagon on BA is

because

he misused the word "clear", in which case I should EBWOP a few million "really"s onto my "not impressed" post.

What question did Empking dodge? I don't see it.

I dont think you understand my case against BA...the fact that he used the word "cleared"...or "not scummy"..or what has little to do with it. the fact that he was trying to do it in the first place is ONE of my problems with BA. It is the action not the words. The others, i stated YESTERDAY and restated today...(ex: only voting the wagon of the hour and lack of scum hunting)...

I wasn't talking about your case, I was talking about the wagon in general.

In any event, I don't think having jumped on two wagons is sufficient evidence that he's just trying to blend in, and I don't see how he hasn't been scum hunting when there's been so much focus on his attack on Tajo/Stef.

also, you really dont see the what questions EMp has been dodging? Are you really going to make me go back and repost the whole back and forth? I assume you think i am just making it up?

Hilarious that you dodge my question here. No, I didn't see Empking dodge questions. I've been focusing my attention on the BA wagon and my discussions with Cybele and you, so Empking was never on my radar. I don't see why you would make it up; why do you assume I think that?

[Erratus Apathos]

@EA - it seems like you are saying that you arn't paying attention to anything but your case and your suspects?? dont' you think that is too tunnel visioned? shouldn't you be reading everything happening in the game if you expect to be able to catch scum?

I read Empking's posts, they just didn't grab my attention.

Looking over CKD's review of Empking, I don't believe it's a tell. I think he honestly believed he'd given satisfactory answers.

[Erratus Apathos]

Unvote, Vote: Empking

As if the backtracking isn't enough, his stream of insults reminds me of Mini 617, where kuribo caught me like page 2 and I, bereft of alternatives, RELEASED THE FUCKING FURY. Didn't work then, won't work now.

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote: Rush

for active lurking mainly, but I'd also like to see him expound on this:

I'd like to see the suspicion spread out a little bit. there is too much uniformity on ba which makes me think lynching him would be a mistake.

There was relatively more "uniformity" on Empking (8 votes) when you voted him than there was on BlakAdder (6 votes) when you said this. Why did the uniformity on BA make you think it was a mistake, but not the uniformity on Emp?

[Erratus Apathos]

post 28 BW page two already?

I only wagoned on page 2 because I was too slow to wagon on page 1.

Post 245 how was ckd using chainsaw defense?

He was attacking BlakAdder for his vote on tajo, without giving his own opinion on the tajo wagon.

post 394 there is so much more going on I don't get this vote. So far unimpressed.

CKD attacked Cybele day 1 for the "just kidding, unvote skitzer" thing. When I attacked Cybele day 2 for the same reason, which she still hadn't yet answered for, CKD actively tried to shoot down the attack. Even if he became more suspicious of someone else, he still shouldn't find it necessary to stop my Cybele attack if his Cybele attack was genuine.

[Erratus Apathos]

EA: The point is I'm not sure if you are just tunnel vision or not reading the game, but there was a lot more going on at post 394 then CKD and cybele. Do you even have a suspect or thoughts on who is scum and why upon reading the game?

Did you miss the posts where I argued why I didn't care for the BlakAdder wagon, asked for the Empking case, disagreed with the Empking case, agreed with the new Empking case, and now today where I'm voting Rush? What exactly am I missing with my "tunnel vision or not reading the game" here?

[Erratus Apathos]

EA: The point is I'm not sure if you are just tunnel vision or not reading the game, but there was a lot more going on at post 394 then CKD and cybele. Do you even have a suspect or thoughts on who is scum and why upon reading the game?

Did you miss the posts where I argued why I didn't care for the BlakAdder wagon, asked for the Empking case, disagreed with the Empking case, agreed with the new Empking case, and now today where I'm voting Rush? What exactly am I missing with my "tunnel vision or not reading the game" here?

Yup. I saw that on day 2. Why did you wait to day 2 to really say anything else beside the whole Cybele and CKD comments?

Oh you mean before day 2. In that case, did you miss the posts where I attacked ooba, and later populartajo?

[Erratus Apathos]

Post 74 - EA: Do you seriously call that a defense?

It's a very backhanded kind of defense. Like if Alice calls Bob scummy, and Carl says "Yeah Bob is scummy, but not as scummy as Alice thinks he is," with the intent to get Alice to be less suspicious of Bob.

[Erratus Apathos]

massive: please explain what makes you think Tarhalindur tracked Seraphim.

[Erratus Apathos]

Where's Ku_F and Rush?

[Erratus Apathos]

Unvote

, looks like Rush is a flaker.

I'm even less impressed with the case on ShadowGirl than I was with the case on BlakAdder.

Massive is a good lynch. He claimed to not know why populartajo was lynched in (6) despite being part of that wagon. He assumed Tarhalindur tracked Seraphim in (10) based on a Tarhalindur post that doesn't suggest he's going to track Seraphim at all. After getting flak for it, he silently drops the Seraphim vote in (15) to jump on the ShadowGirl wagon because she provided vote counts. Seriously. After acting all "back in my day we never lynched town twice in a row", I expected better votes than the two he's provided.

Vote: massive

[Erratus Apathos]

EA, why do you keep mentioning you didnt like the BA case?...is it a badge you want to show off?

I don't need no stinkin' badges. I mentioned it as a reference point for my opinion on the SG case.

unvote, vote ShadowGirl

Her helpful vote counts pre-both-lynches coupled with her joy of the previous night's events are a desperate attempt to appear townie. I don't believe a townie needs to do that.

Voting for the next highest vote getter when you are in the suspicion spotlight = mafia to me.

vote massive

Oh, so you ARE still here? I see you're still using the "lurk, lurk, lurk, jump on a wagon, lurk, lurk" strategy too. And you didn't even bother to answer my questions from the beginning of the day. It's obvious that you're more interested in avoiding attention and surviving than hunting scum, and for that I will see to it that you hang, scum.

Unvote, vote: Rush

EA, I would very much like to hear your general thoughts at this point in the game.

What do you mean by general thoughts?

[Erratus Apathos]

How many more times does Rush need to jump on a bandwagon without scumhunting and then intentionally lurk to avoid being questioned about it before we realize he's not just dead weight, he's dead scum weight?

[Erratus Apathos]

How many more times does Rush need to jump on a bandwagon without scumhunting and then intentionally lurk to avoid being questioned about it before we realize he's not just dead weight, he's dead scum weight?

Remember this when I get lynched as townie.

For someone who only had 1 vote at the time, you're exceptionally confident you're going to be lynched. Why's that?

(Who am I kidding? He's never going to answer that.)

[Erratus Apathos]

FOS: skitzer

Why did you wait until CKD's post to start reading the thread?

I don't see how Skitzer's one post shortly after CKD mentioned him makes him an 'active lurker' though. Who is to say he wasn't accidentally online at that very moment and happened to post just after CKD.

If you believe that, I will sell you land on the moon.

[Erratus Apathos]

Oh seriously, obviously I meant "all 4 killing groups." If you really think I'm intimating that there are 4 mafia groups, you are using blatant opportunism and have quickly risen in my "likely to also be scum" list.

This is a scum reaction.

Vote: massive

[Erratus Apathos]

I'm a vig. I shot ooba night 1 because he ignored my accusation when I voted him. I shot sekinj night 2 for insisting that Stef's smiley meta wasn't a tell even after he turned up scum. I shot CKD last night because of the way he tried to pull my vote off Cybele D2. (I of course would have shot either Rush or massive if they weren't in the duel, making killing them a potential waste.)

Jebus isn't fakeclaiming, therefore BA is.

Unvote, vote: BlakAdder

[Erratus Apathos]

unvote
vote EA

BA is not Jap, Seph fits more with Greek then Jap, EA could fit as Jap.

Even though I shot Japanese scum night 2?

[Erratus Apathos]

Unvote
Vote: massive

From what I understood, he had his chance to send in your target after the duel took place. His excuse is void.

God damnit you're right. I sent in my action before.

@farside - EA doesnt get lynched if no one counters vig. If you are vig, counter him. I already how showed taking out a faction works given the WIFOM situation it makes for scum involving their next NK.

You want if someone is the vig to claim? Is that smart considering that unless niv is the last jap that there is a chance that person could be killed? Sorry but that is the facts. No I'm not counter claiming I'm just saying that outing a PR is bad.
Why would the vig kill CKD? That's who Jebus targeted and EA admitted to. I never saw CKD as scum in any way shape or form. I want a reason and a valid one on why EA targeted who he did.

CKD dismissed my D2 Cybele vote to try to get me to switch to BA, despite my case on Cybele basically being a repeat of his D1 case on Cybele. I thought that was scum sensing a new easy target and forgetting the old one.

[Erratus Apathos]

Can we get a vote count?

[Erratus Apathos]

I am not the SK.

Vote BlakAdder

, because he's definitely not town either. My bet is on BA being Jap mafia, because of his interactions with Stef and Tajo on day 1.

I know there are people who believe believe BA is really a vanilla townie because he reacted 'genuinely' to Jebus's gambit, but that's a terrible argument. As pointed out before, if BA didn't kill GW himself, then it would've been easy to figure out Jebus was lying. A vanilla townie and a mafia would react in exactly the same way if they knew Jebus was lying.

Town and scum

never

react in

exactly

the same way. Case in point:

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I'm a vanilla townie. If the game isn't over tomorrow, promise me you'll lynch Jebus, and possibly LlamaFluff as well when Jebus flips scum. The way Llama's been acting towards Jebus's claim makes me think that they are scum partners

At this point, it looked impossible that BA wouldn't be the lynch - he defied Jebus's claim, then I confirmed it. Rather than try anything and everything to get out the lynch, as scum would do, he accepted that he was going to be today's lynch, and then asked for Jebus's lynch tomorrow.

If BA was Greek and didn't kill GhostWriter, there is no way Jebus would have been lynched tomorrow if BA was lynched Greek today, because it would add veracity to Jebus's claim. Accepting his own lynch under the pretenses of Jebus falling tomorrow would be a ridiculously shitty play if he was Greek.

And if he was Japanese or SK, he wouldn't even care about tomorrow at all since his lynch today would spell game over - his top concern would certainly have been survival. BA's post here is pretty much the polar opposite of survival.

This post really only makes sense from the vantage point of a townie giving up in order to get scum lynched tomorrow.

[Erratus Apathos]

@Massive/EA - Is SG or BA more likely scum?

SG, since I'm confident BA is town.

But since there's a last minute SL wagon popping up, I'd prefer that over SG or BA. Xtoxm made the point that she lurks as scum, and she responded by saying that he was never in a game where she was scum. Which is, of course, completely irrelevant to her lurking as scum. I think xtoxm caught her and she was looking for a way to brush his accusation aside.

Unvote
Vote: springlullaby

[Erratus Apathos]

I agree with LF on the claim.

Once again, if anyone has the inclination to hammer me, I'd like a last word.

Alright, I'll see where you're going with this before I hammer.

[Erratus Apathos]

I'd rather go Fonz, Jahudo, massive, Sierra.

[Erratus Apathos]

I have doubts about LF's claim, but I don't think I can win as SK at this point anyways, so I'm just going to hope he's telling the truth and did get roleblocked on day 1. I am in fact the serial killer.

With that cleared up, if LF is honest then this leads to a guaranteed town win plan:

Today: We lynch Fonz.
Tonight: LF recruits me, Jahudo vigs Sierra, Jebus watches Jahudo.
Tomorrow: If both me and LF are both alive to confirm a successful recruit, we lynch massive. Otherwise, we lynch whichever of me and LF is still alive, then Jahudo vigs massive.

(Note that Fonz, Sierra, and massive in this example are interchangable.)

Does anyone have a problem with this plan?

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote: The Fonz