Mini 681 - Mish Mash Mafia - THE END!

[RestFermata]

Late first post. Sorry! Gotta read the thread and rules now, hold on a sec.

[RestFermata]

Upon reading the rules, I got the impression that we vote for whom we want to lynch, but the lynched person gets to kill one other before they go down. You guys all seem to be interpreting it differently, so maybe I'm wrong. But that's how I read it.

[RestFermata]

That's the way I read it, but don't take my word for it.

[RestFermata]

Wait. I think I was wrong. Now I think we elect the executioner via vote, he/she kills someone, and then the person who was killed by the executioner gets to make one last kill.

[RestFermata]

I don't think so, ShadowGirl. According to my role PM, neither side can directly kill the other; that's what the mish mash games are for. So there probably won't be a standard NK. The game might even be nightless.

[RestFermata]

I definitely think that maximum democracy is good for the town. sekinj's plan is a good one.

[RestFermata]

Probably absent over the weekend. So

Unvote

. Please don't elect me in the meantime.

[RestFermata]

sekinj doesn't seem to understand. We obviously can't do away with the mechanic of electing the executioner. What we

can

do, however, is hold the executioner accountable to the will of the town. It's kind of like the US Electoral College. The power of the vote is actually with the electors, but the electors have pledged to cast their ballots for the candidate that won their respective states.

I agree with the idea that we elect the executioner to carry out the TOWN'S plan. It makes the process more democratic. It hands the power to the majority, which favors the town. We're not making a theme game into a standard game. We're just making the most out of the process we're given. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[RestFermata]

I say we elect sekinj to be executioner. Even though I kind of agree with LBF's strategy, sekinj has already asked us to hold the executioner accountable for going against the town, so I don't really find it all that different. The executioner

always

has the option of going against the town, even under LBF's plan, even though it'll probably get them into

huge

trouble the next day. In practice, I don't think it'll end up that different. We're all going to want to elect an executioner that we think will listen to our opinions, so if they don't, I hope we'll make them answer for it tomorrow.

I say someone (not me! I'm terrible at counting!) should keep

Lynch

and

Shoot

counts so that the executioner has to give reasoning for going against the will of the town should he/she choose to do so, rather than just say "Oh, I didn't realize you guys wanted me to kill XXXX, guess I miscounted." Now, whether or not we believe that the executioner

should

have the final say over who is lynched, the truth is he/she

will

have the final say over who is lynched. I just want them to take the full burden of responsibility for any deviations from the will of the town rather than making lame excuses.

Now. I say the executioner should

Lynch

orangepenguin. I find the "I WANNA PLAY MISH MASH MAFIA NOT A MINI NORMAL" thing to be pretty contrived. Obviously there is a built-in change in mechanics already, so it's not a mini normal regardless. I'm not buying it.

I don't have an opinion on who should be shot yet, since I haven't found anyone else I think is particularly scummy, but I may soon.

Vote: sekinj

I think that's, uh, E-1.

[RestFermata]

Lynch: orangepenguin

[RestFermata]

Clean Campaign - If you use no other powers in a given round, add +15 to your Defense.

[RestFermata]

25 on Rally

[RestFermata]

I did bid, but I was outbidded. I haven't played this game before and I wanted to take a more conservative strategy. I don't want to spend too many of my energy points.

[RestFermata]

I'm still confused as to how this works. It sounds as if it would be really easy to "quickhammer" someone.

[RestFermata]

I think it's weird how he said "it's not like 1 attack does anything!", completely ignoring the fact that he just used Obama Bomb.

[RestFermata]

I'm sorry for not posting more. I am very, very confused by this format. I also believe that Empking is scummy, but I have refrained from attacking him because I'm afraid that so many people attacking him would just finish him off, as I said earlier. I don't mean to be lurky or "not play", but I also don't want to do anything rash. So for now I'm going to allocate

Defense: 100

until I can understand the rules better.

[RestFermata]

I wanted the most powerful ability to stop scum from getting it, to stop the game from going on forever but mostly because I thought it'd help me survive.

This ^
It means you care more about your survival. There was no need for you to worry about it, but it seems most people find you scummy and you ignore their comments while still attacking.

Honestly farside has a good point. You're just arguing semantics, which I find scummy.

[RestFermata]

Vote: Caboose

I feel strongly that Caboose is town, especially from what I saw of him D1. I'm pretty confident that his ideas have been genuine.

[RestFermata]

I believe that Caboose is town because he was the first to come up with a plan that involved town participation D1. He definitely got under fire for it from KoC, but I thought it was a pro-town plan:

We each pick a person that we would kill if elected executioner. Once we have everyone covered (everyone's got somebody that would kill them), then we play like a regular mafia game. Instead of voting for the person we want to lynch, we vote for the executioner who would kill that person.

sekinj's plan wasn't actually that different in effect, even though the process was different. But I am voting Caboose because he was the

first

to take the initiative to come up with a plan. That makes him look town in my eyes, and he hasn't done anything to convince me otherwise. His contributions have all made sense and seemed genuine. I agree with his attack on MafiaSSK (I haven't said much about who I find scummy, if anything, but that is a bad habit of mine and I'll try to discuss it more from now on) and I didn't find his attack on Empking to be scummy.

[RestFermata]

Sorry for lurking. I have a competition this Saturday. I'll post as I can.

[RestFermata]

I don't like how KoC said he was happy to put Caboose and sekinj in "for now"...as if he has reservations about it. News flash, KoC. You can't take it back later. And if we save the wrong person, it's over. So I think you should be pretty damn sure.

[RestFermata]

I wish I would post more too. I really have a problem with this, and I'm sorry. I have a time management problem so when RL obligations hit me, they hit me really hard.

I'm pleasantly surprised that sekinj would vote to save me. I thought I had lurked enough that many people would feel very iffy about voting me. Glad to see that sekinj isn't taking advantage of that--makes me think she's town. If she's unsuccessful in leading a save wagon on me, I'll probably vote for her. Could be buddying up, but I've found her town so far, for similar reasons as Caboose D1. I like the people who seemed like leaders of the D1 discussion, and sekinj, though not the first to come up with an idea, was one of them.

I don't understand lord_hur's continued accusation of Caboose. How can he continue to attack Caboose now that he is cleared as town? If Caboose was mafia, the game would be over. We've entered the next voting stage, so he needs to lose the tunnel vision and look for other pairs. Even if the mod's a bastard and the game is over but we don't know it yet, we HAVE to consider Caboose town because if not, there's no point because everything we're doing is useless anyway. I'm not finding LH super scummy at the moment, but he's not my first choice to save because the way he went from "these two players are pro-town" to "these two players are probably scumbuddies" fairly quickly strikes me as being possibly dishonest.

Two players that I'm

really

not planning on voting to save at this point are MafiaSSK and SG. MafiaSSK isn't afraid to accuse people, but often does so in an annoyingly vague way. I also see some weird overly trusting vibes from him toward sekinj--if sekinj is in fact town, which I believe she is, this could be an example of trying to get on her good side. Overall MSSK strikes me as really uncooperative. The only thing holding me back from declaring "obvscum" is an occurrence in another game--I won't get too specific about it for obvious reasons--in which I said the same things and the player in question flipped town. So apparently uncooperative behavior and vague accusations are not

necessarily

a scumtell, but they are anti-town. And we should not be saving anti-town people at this point.

SG is another one I'm iffy about. I know my participation D2 was sub-par, but I was confused about game mechanics and didn't want to do anything rash accidentally, whereas SG seemed to be pretending to participate by playing mod. She was posting continually but not as a player. It seemed like she was just letting everyone duke it out round her as she watched. I don't feel very comfortable with that. Lurking in plain sight is more of a scumtell than true lurking for me. I especially didn't like that she asked for prods on certain people. She was the one who needed a prod--a participation prod, not a posting prod. Not a fan at all as of D2.

I'm not a fan of KoC's self-lynch vote D1 either. His attitude isn't my favorite, but I'd feel just a tad more comfortable saving him than MSSK or SG. But anyway, I obviously support a RestFermata wagon--for me, the safest idea.

Vote: RestFermata

[RestFermata]

Oh yeah, you're right Reread that. For some reason I thought the mod had said if ANY of the three mafia were declared safe the game would be over. So I'll have to look at it from a different angle now.

@Caboose: Figured it would raise a few eyebrows, but I feel more comfortable casting a vote on myself than on anyone else, period. If a wagon on someone else I think is town forms, of course I'll change my vote, but we're in lylo and desperate times call for desperate measures. If you think it's scummy, I'm sorry, but it stands.

[RestFermata]

It's a fair accusation, SG. I tend to lurk a lot. Basically I bite off more than I can chew when it comes to games. I just asked for replacement in two of them, though, so it should be better.

[RestFermata]

Oh, come on. It's not like as mafia I would have really believed that I could "clear" Caboose by lying about the game mechanics when any shmuck (except me, apparently) can look back at Niv's post and see that it's not true. I don't think anyone's going to take my word for it, especially when some people are obviously going to contest that. The only two options you should consider are

A. I was genuinely confused about the game mechanics
B. I am playing dumb.

But I take offense to your accusation that I am trying to "completely clear" Caboose. I am not so stupid that I would think that would work.

In a post that you yourself quoted, I also showed ignorance of the game mechanics:

And if we save the wrong person, it's over.

So I think that accusation is pretty weak sauce.

Basically everything else in your post seems to be examples of me thinking that sekinj and Caboose are town. I do think they're town. I guess sekinj thinks I'm town, though I'm not too sure about Caboose. Yes, and you're right that I believe I need all the votes that I can get, because I and I alone know that I am a safe choice for the town, though one unlikely to be chosen. That is a nulltell. Both scum and town could find it beneficial to self-vote in my situation.

There's also the hypocrisy accusation. I will acknowledge that I did not participate D2, but it was for reasons of caution. And I see now that I was right in my fear that it would be "very easy to hammer". Empking got absolutely pummeled into the ground. I think that it only would have taken a few players to do it, and I don't think anyone was explicitly aware they were "dropping the hammer" when they attacked him. Although that's another great mask for scum to hide behind, by the way...I'll have to check that out. You can't be sure of my motives, but I can't be sure of yours, either. I'm not pleased with my own D2 actions or lack thereof, but nor am I pleased with yours.

Beyond that, I guess it's best to let sekinj and Caboose defend themselves. I don't see this as a wholly honest accusation--it makes a lot of assumptions and assumptions upon assumptions, i.e. the scum are RF, sekinj, and Caboose, they are "going for the perfect" because two of them are already saved, because the scum are RF, sekinj, and Caboose--but I would like to hear from them about it.

P.S. A self-lynch vote is much stranger than a self-save vote. I believe that KoC's self-lynch vote could have been to set up a persona that is willing to self-sacrifice, which seems more pro-town. It was also completely unnecessary--he could have just voted to lynch OP. Seems contrived. A self-save vote is different. I'm not saying it's good, but like I said, we're in LYLO. I think any pro-town player should be willing to vote or hammer themselves in this situation, especially if it looks like the wagon will shift onto another player that is of course riskier, because all other alignments are unknown. Scum would want to do the same thing, of course, so in my mind it's a nulltell. It's definitely not going to inspire anyone to buy me a bouquet of flowers, but KoC's self-lynch vote looks like he was fishing for some sort of attention.

[RestFermata]

I hate stuff like this: "Oh, just ignore X. He

always

acts anti-town. He did so in game Y, was lynched, and flipped town. So now we just let him get away with whatever the hell he wants." You run the risk of making this game incredibly easy for the scum. I'm definitely not going to be casting a save vote for MafiaSSK anytime soon, that's for sure.

[RestFermata]

I'm not saying it's an effective strategy. My point is there was absolutely no good reason for KoC to make that self-lynch vote. I think he must have had some sort of ulterior motives, successful or not, because he could have achieved the same result by voting to lynch OP.

[RestFermata]

EBWOP: The same result...without dying.

[RestFermata]

No, I don't hate meta. I just hate people using meta as an excuse. ESPECIALLY when they use it as an excuse to other people. It just makes the game unfun.

[RestFermata]

So sekinj is at Save-1? I'm cool with putting her through for the reasons I mentioned before.

Unvote, vote sekinj

[RestFermata]

She allegedly thinks we have already saved 2 scum. But I think that SG is scum.

[RestFermata]

I agree with this plan.

[RestFermata]

SG makes me laugh. I'm quite sure the game won't be over because you are scum. But you can go ahead and try to pin it on me when that happens.

Vote: lord_hur

[RestFermata]

Unfortunately we have to save everyone but one person.

[RestFermata]

Save: KoC

Not my favorite save, but better than SG in my opinion.

[RestFermata]

Look Caboose, we have to save all but one person. It's just like deciding who to lynch in LYLO. Only the mechanics are a little different. We just have to hope we're right about SG, just like if we were lynching her the standard way.

[RestFermata]

So you're basically saying KoC should be today's lynch. Do you think that SG is also scum?

[RestFermata]

We can only lynch one person. We need to be extremely confident that one person is scum. If that person is not scum, we will lose.

[RestFermata]

God, I really don't like voting for SSK, but here I go...

Vote: MafiaSSK

I think that was the hammer. I really hope I'm right about SG. If I'm not, this is a loss, and I'm sorry. If the game isn't over after this, well, it's probably just going to be a big bitch fight between SG and I, but I encourage you not to get distracted.

[RestFermata]

Good game. I really was sure SG was scum. Sorry SG. You were sure about me too. At least you were right about sekinj. I was suspicious of LH and SSK but too confident about SG.