Mini 679 - BSG: The Basestar (Game Over!)

[Rishi]

Vote: Rishi

for thoroughly confounding me in Newbie 614.

Vote: ChannelDelibird

For being confounded.

[Rishi]

Timeater - Nothing to add other than we are out of the random voting stage? If you think we're out of the random stage, why not comment on what's going on?

I'm with Elmo on this one. If you're going to complain about the random stage, do something that is purposeful and not random.

Of course, Grimmy never seems to leave the random stage - even on like Day 3. And he seems to do okay.

[Rishi]

Do you find this behaviour scummy?

I find it only a tiny bit scummy - it was probably one of the most notable things I saw on Page 2.

Unvote: Vote Elmo

It seems like you are voting King solely because you have a gripe with his play style. Not good.

I don't like this. I think that Elmo has a legitimate gripe with what KE is doing. It's not just play style.

Well, it does seem we are out of the random stage. Whats wrong with me unvoting? I just had nothing to contribute at that point.

There's nothing wrong with unvoting at that point. But, if we're out of the random stage, you should have something to say. Your post seemed like you were trying to not make any waves and were trying to look as inconspicuous and uncontroversial as possible.

[Rishi]

In fact, I think he had a very good question there, and I'd like to hear some answers. Why is everyone voting the person they are voting for? Elmo and Fark are the only ones with any particular reasoning behind their votes that I can see.

My vote's on CDB. Started as random, but I don't see the need to remove it until he starts participating.

[Rishi]

In every game I've played on MS, my first, random vote always goes to the first name on the list of players in post 1. I also usually explain this along with my vote. But I wanted to try something different this time (I stole this idea from Natirasha, who always self votes first, but doesn't explain it) and since iam's avatar is a cylon centurion, I also really wanted him to be my first vote, because it seemed too perfect. Hence my first post.

I'll post more later, but I felt that this needs to be said:

Natirasha is not a player you should model your play after.

[Rishi]

How do you interpret it? I think the answer is fairly obvious, but maybe i'm a minority here. BUT I'm going to assume your a fairly intelligent person and know why its suspect, so that brings into question why ask me why? You know the answer.

I got an idea, I'm not going to post anything for a while, cause apparently those who don't post are invisible and because I'm here contributing I'm getting asked redundant questions.

Did I just say "Hey, stop looking at me, nothing to see here, look over there!!"?

Maybe. This is a burden all vote leaders must bear.

I don't know about this. I really doubt that anyone would be dumb enough to defend their scumbuddy so early in the game.

[Rishi]

I'd really like to hear from Tar, Rishi - who said he was going to post more later but just ended up taking a little snipe at KE, and ChannelDelibird - who only has three posts.

Sorry. I thought I would have had more to say, but didn't. Can't really post when at work, so I'll look at the thread again tonight.

[Rishi]

I didn't think anything in particular would jump out at me during a re-read, but there's this here:

KingEnigma, you seem reluctant to random vote.

You know, I probably wouldn’t have even noticed that KE didn’t random vote if Fark didn’t point it out. Then, after things got stirred up, he immediately withdrew his suspicion. Then, later, Fark jumps on people for criticizing KE’s “play style," when he really started it.

That, and other things, like the Timeater vs. Tar comment makes me feel that Fark is trying to stir things up without really participating.

Vote: Farkshinsoup

[Rishi]

I didn't think anything in particular would jump out at me during a re-read, but there's this here:

KingEnigma, you seem reluctant to random vote.

You know, I probably wouldn’t have even noticed that KE didn’t random vote if Fark didn’t point it out. Then, after things got stirred up, he immediately withdrew his suspicion. Then, later, Fark jumps on people for criticizing KE’s “play style," when he really started it.

My original statement was pretty neutral. I usually try to choose my words pretty carefully. Notice I did not say, "I find it suspicious that you are not random voting." or "I find it scummy that you are not random voting." It was early in the game, and I was trying to generate discussion by pointing out something I had noticed. So there was no suspicion to withdraw, and I never criticized his play style in the first place.

This is really what stood out to you on your re-read? I'd like you, and others, to weigh in on Timeater's arguments for my scumminess: Good, bad, or ugly?

I think Tim's arguments are good. I didn't feel the need to repeat them.

And, yes, it did jump out on me. It seems like a neutral statement, but the fact is that you were the catalyst to the whole conversation about KE. It's funny that you raised an issue, which raised suspicion on both people who participated in the argument (KE and Elmo) and you seemed to slip away unnoticed. I'm claiming that you're an instigator.

[Rishi]

Remember to

Unvote

before placing a new vote.

D'oh!

Unvote, Vote: Farkshinsoup

[Rishi]

Need to catch up. Post coming in the next day or so.

[Rishi]

Okay, so Elmo asked me what about Timeater's arguments that I liked against Fark. I can see why some people are saying that Tim overreacted to some of the things that Fark said, but I also think that what Fark said in a couple places were pretty bad such as the "I won't answer this. Maybe later" comment (paraphrasing here) and the "Tar vs. Tim" comment. I agree that Fark is being evasive at points but expecting people to be up front with him. With Fark's questions, it seems like he wants to seem like he's contributing when he hasn't got much to say.

Of the arguments against Tim, I'll say it is pretty strange, given how much he was going after Fark, that he waits until a couple days ago to finally place a vote. It's also interesting how that vote comes on the heels of votes from me and KE. Kind of seems like Tim was waiting for a viable bandwagon. So, Tim, what's with the timing of your vote?

Mod: I am voting for Fark. You have Fark voting for himself in the count.

Whoops. Sorry, fixed. - Mod

[Rishi]

DIDNT I SAY LIKE A MILLION TIMES IM HOLDING MY VOTE UNTIL I HEARD FROM TAR AND OTHERS? AND THATS EXACTLY WHAT I DID I DONT SEE THE CONFUSION THERE. *INSERT RANT ABOUT IDIOTS HERE*

Okay, fine. But why did you feel the need to wait so long? It's not like Fark was in any danger of being lynched.

[Rishi]

..........BECAUSE I SAID I WAS GOING TO WAIT FOR TARLHINDUR TO POST? USUALLY ITS A GOOD IDEA TO DO WHAT YOU SAY YOU ARE GOING TO DO WHEN YOU'RE TOWN? I SPECIFICALLY SAID IN MULTIPLE POSTS OVER THE CORSE OF A WEEK I AM WAITING TO HEAR FROM TAR AND OTHERS TO POST BEFORE I MAKE MY VOTE. FOR FUCK SAKE.

No need to get snippy. I apologize if I offended you in some way. But, please calm down. There's no reason we can't be civil.

[Rishi]

I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that?

Ha. Funny.

Thread dying... good time to go after lurkers. Someone go after some lurkers.

[Rishi]

FOS: Timeater and Farkinsoup

Out of curiosity, do you think it's conceivable that both Timeater and Fark are scum?

[Rishi]

I am so lost.

Don't worry. I think most of us are.

[Rishi]

Hey forbiddan [sic]... when you quote people, could you please say who said the original quote? Sometimes I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Rishi]

Given what I've seen in other games I've read, I think it makes good sense to officially request a claim from any self-voter. How do people feel about this?

Why do you think this? Could you give an example of a game where it was helpful?

Honestly, I've never seen it done before. It's an idea I recently had (but didn't actually bring up) in another game where someone self-voted. (Game ongoing.) To me, it feels like self-voting is inviting a lynch on oneself. It feels like de facto L-1. I'm really not sure, which is why I brought it up as a question here, but I think it might be a strategy worth trying.

Obviously, that strategy would not come in to play during random vote stage.

Self-voting is pretty crazy. I think there's a very narrow range of possibilities where it's actually a good play. However, to say that it deserves an auto-claim is a bit too much of a stretch.

What's especially bad about your statements is that you're not even voting for Timeater and you want a claim from him? Anyway, I still would like Timeater to explain his actions, but I also want to know what the deal is asking for a claim from a person who you're not even voting for.

[Rishi]

I was asking for people's opinions on a claim, not directly asking for a claim. Sorry if that wasn't clear. If people aren't for that, and it sounds like most aren't, then I'm fine with not going there, and just asking for an explanation.

But were you supporting the idea of a claim? My impression is that you thought that claiming was a good idea, when, in fact, it wasn't.

@Grimmy: You didn't answer my question. Do you think it's possible that both Fark and Timeater are scum together?

[Rishi]

~Gonna go look up some Awesome Pants meta to see if he's always so... hands-off on D1~

Please do, I'd be interested to see what you find. I think I tend to lurk heaps more on day one and only really start to get/feel involved in the later days which is probably a fault in my playstyle I should work on.

I agree that Day 1 kind of sucks, but it's a necessary evil for getting to the later, more interesting days. People who complain about Day 1 without contributing much are the ones who make sure that it drags on, and then it sucks even worse.

[Rishi]

Gotta catch up again... I lost track of this thread halfway through the Elmo/forbiddanlight argument.

Will catch up in the next 24 hours or so.

[Rishi]

Okay, caught up. Don't have time to write a whole lot, but using this post to kind of mark where I left off.

That whole Elmo/forbiddanlight argument was a whole lot of nothing. If Elmo was scum, he'd be making newbie-level scum mistakes. And I don't think he'd do that. In any case, both forbiddan and Tar got defensive at that point and started attacking Elmo. Then Elmo puts together a great post on Tar. But, I don't know about his case. It almost feels like Elmo baited Tar and then went after him for chasing the bait.

FoP is looking bettter than Timeater.

I don't like how Fark and KE have been lurking lately now that the pressure is off them. I also don't like IAUN's lurking, but nothing was ever really suspicious of him.

[Rishi]

Elmo can continue to do his happy dance, but I like the FoP wagon better than the KE wagon. I've never really been that suspicious of KE and I think people are jumping on him because he's a fairly easy target - being busy in real life has made it look like he's lurking. As for FoP, what better way to avert suspicion and distance yourself from the predecessor than working hard in the game? (And it's much easier for two people to look active than one.) Anyway, I am just saying that we shouldn't give FoP a free pass at this point. I don't think FoP is a good lynch for today, by any means.

In fact, I probably wouldn't be willing to help lynch anyone right now except for Fark and MacavityLock (whose case never picked up the steam it deserved). Maybe one of the lurkers, if it came down to it (like Awesome Pants or andersonw), but only right at deadline. As for other wagons, no one has made a convincing enough case yet, for me.

[Rishi]

Then Elmo puts together a great post on Tar. But, I don't know about his case. It almost feels like Elmo baited Tar and then went after him for chasing the bait.

Why do you feel this weakens the case if true?

(Patrick)

Sorry for the double post, but didn't see this before. Because Elmo was dancing around and being all like, "Look at me! I'm scummy! I'm saying stuff that makes no sense and throwing out an FoS without justification! Wooo! Here I am!" Now, most of us know Elmo and know that he wouldn't do this without a reason and that he wouldn't pull such an obvious scummy move, so most of us ignored him.

Then, when Tar jumped on the case, Elmo was all like, "Ha! I was being scummy on purpose and you fell for it! I caught you, scum."

Now, I'll totally admit this might be a bit of an exaggeration, but I just feel that Elmo was setting up a trap. I'm not saying that Elmo is scum because of it - I'm just questioning the efficacy of the plan.

Actually, we can kind of resolve this since Elmo is here. Hi, Elmo, what were you trying to do?

[Rishi]

Hey guys. Had a death in the family. Should be able to catch up after the funeral, which is tomorrow. Sorry for my absence.

[Rishi]

Wow. A lot of things happening now. Caught up.

Thanks to those of you who offered condolences. I really appreciate it. Okay, now on with the game.

First of all, I am not a cylon. (Man, I've recently been playing the BSG Boardgame a lot, and I've been saying that sentence quite a bit.)

I feel good about Tar's claim. I'm actually more inclined to believe Tar's claim due to the fact that it seems somewhat improbable. It seems too far fetched to actually be fake. Also, Tar was breadcrumbing this claim from the beginning - not just when he was in trouble. I'm not sure where the targeting thing comes into play with Kara Thrace - though there is a lot of gun imagery in the series associated with Starbuck - she's a crack shot as a Viper pilot and she did threaten President Roslin once with a gun. Still, I'm willing to go with it for now.

As for forbiddan's claim, I don't know. I don't like how she was talking about her inevitable death. It sounded like she wanted to be lynched. Of course, if she had a compelling reason to be lynched, she could have self-hammered. I don't like the way she's been playing but, at least for now, I'll chalk it up to frustration rather than scumminess.

I don't like FoP's softclaim in 398. Not sure why. I guess I don't like unnecessary softclaims. I've seen them used by scum just as much as town.

Also, I guess I should address some older stuff before my disappearance.

There are others who pointed out scummy stuff with MacavityLock. Especially around the time he wanted someone to auto-claim after a self-vote.

So, Elmo, you weren't playing intentionally scummy? How is "^Kill plz. FoS: Tar" not at least a little scummy? It seems you were definitely trying to gauge reactions first before explaining what you were doing.

And, finally, to Fark. You can't say, "Well, Timeater's arguments on me were weak and so you seem scummy because you didn't recognize they were weak." Everyone will think, regardless of alignment, that the attacks on them are weak. In fact, I usually toss a few townie points to people who can freely admit that someone has a good point against them. Still, I'll admit that maybe I'm focusing on Fark for all the wrong reasons.

Unvote: Fark

So, yeah, I'm a little stumped right now. About halfway through Page 16, I would have jumped on the forbiddan bandwagon, but there's enough doubt in me now.

I'm convinced scum has to be in one of the lurkers. Not sure which one to look at, though.

[Rishi]

I don't like FoP's softclaim in 398. Not sure why. I guess I don't like unnecessary softclaims. I've seen them used by scum just as much as town.

Can you go into this a bit further? This doesn't really say much and actually seems somewhat wishy-washy as you seem to lament that you just don't like softclaims in general for some unknown reason but then you come to the conclusion that you see them being used equally in town and scum. What is it that you don't like about our particular hint in 398?

I’m trying to be cautious, not wishy-washy. Saying that forbiddan’s claim fit in with your role implied, to me, that you had some kind of knowledge that you were hinting at but not sharing. I guess my problem is why you didn’t just come forward with the fact that you were also a majority-aligned cylon. Instead, you made a vague mysterious statement and then came forward with the information a few posts later after others asked for it. I guess I’m not sure why you were being evasive at first.

• Rishi: I don't understand how saying essentially "I want to kill FL; I am suspicious of Tar" is gauging reactions. It seems the opposite, stating an opinion without regard to how it's perceived. I have no idea how it's supposed to be scummy.

Saying things like that without justification is scummy, no matter how you slice it. You can’t make statements without providing justification. You can’t say that it can’t be scummy because it showed that you didn’t care what people thought of the statement. If you take that statement a bit further, it means that town never has to justify their opinions.

Also,

Vote: Grimmy

His last post of any substance was October 23. Now I understand and respect people being busy in real life, but it feels like someone could find a free hour in TWO WEEKS to participate in the game. Anyway, the vote is to give him some motivation to post.

And, hi camn!

[Rishi]

Rishi: I said that I didn't understand how it could be gauging reactions, which is what you said originally. I still don't, or see how "kill plz" could be scummy... you've just sort of said "you can't do that!". Well, I did - why am I more likely to be scum because of it?

Okay, I’m not sure if this discussion is useful, but here’s what it seems like you did:

1. Said something without any justification.
2. Waited until someone accused you of being scummy for providing opinions without justification.
3. Jumped on them for asking you for justification because what you did wasn’t scummy.

So I’m not sure why you think providing opinions without justification isn’t scummy. It seems your argument is either: a) It can’t be scummy because if you were scum, you wouldn’t be so obvious. b) If you were sccm, then you wouldn’t be so apathetic.

Now, I think the phrase is overused, but I think both of those are WIFOM situations. I may not have explained why I think what you did is just a tiny bit scummy, but what I don’t understand is why you’re saying it’s not. All you’re saying is, “I don’t see why it’s scummy.” You’re playing dumb, and you’re a smarter player than that. That’s weird to me.

We just weren't sure initially how we should come forward with our information. I still have my thoughts about what the set-up could look like, and I know that I had one particular theory about the set-up that made me think coming forward might have done more harm than good, but we eventually decided to just come forward in some way anyway expressing our thoughts about forbiddanlight's role claim and its relationship to us.

You guys are allowed to discuss this game outside of the thread and you still came down on the side of being mysterious and evasive (at least at first)? Lovely. By the way, in response to FoP’s later question, the original post was evasive. FoP did come forward on their own, but it still looked like they were waiting to see how things would shake out before coming forward.

Hmmm, Grimmy's posting elsewhere on the board. He seems to be in a lot of games, and he may be prioritizing where he posts, he complained about RL issues in another thread. Worth an FoS.

Just an FoS? Isn’t that the definition of lurking? Ignoring one game while posting actively in others?

The thing that bothers me about this claiming business is that you’re making half the players name claim and the other half are not expected to claim. If you think name claiming is actually a useful information, then shouldn’t everyone do it?

[Rishi]

My argument isn't anything, at the moment. By default, an action isn't scummy. There needs to be some reason as to why it is; I can't think of one, and I don't believe you've put forth one. I don't see this as particularly useful, but I'll answer as long as you're asking.

The problem was also in the degree of the reaction. Tar's post was pure hyperbole. I would definitely look more favourably on "Elmo, that's scummy" rather than OMG MUST KILL. There is also the fact he latched onto what FL was saying, which is part of the reason I wanted to lynch him over her.

Okay, I can see your point now. You’re not saying that your posts didn’t deserve some scrutiny. But there’s a difference between my initial reaction (pretty much “WTF?”) and Tar’s reaction (pretty much “diescumdie”). It’s made worse by a fact that you pointed out earlier – that Tar has played with you before and should have an idea of your playstyle.

And this argument isn’t useful. This will be my last post on this subject for now.

I don't like KoC's assumptions. You aren't playing mafia, you are playing "outguess the mod", I think.

OMFG (Oh My Frakkin Gods). I agree with forbiddan, here. (As she can tell you, it doesn’t happen too often.) With so many claimed cylons, we have to figure that some of them have to be town-aligned. Some of the humans might be scum as well. I think the whole cylon/human thing is probably a null-tell.

Ok, here's the full claim: I am Number 2, a toaster who is allied with the cylons. I choose a player during the day (it has to be before we get to night), and that night, I confuse him with spiritual thoughts and mysteries so that he can't do anything. I assume I'm some sort of roleblocker. (this was another reason that I was confused about exactly whose side I was on). I win when all enemies to my side are dead. (I've been careful to paraphrase here, don't want to get modkilled)

Hmm. Town-aligned cylon. Do you know who your fellow cylons are? Can you communicate at night?

I don’t think that No Lynch is a good move here. I hear what camn is saying about an even number of players, but we need some information that'll come out in a lynch. Plus, we don’t know that there’ll be exactly one kill every night (could be zero, could be two some nights).

[Rishi]

I would strongly suggest that Macavity and/or Grimmy think about claiming. I do think one of them is the lynch, right now. I'll probably flip a coin tomorrow as to my vote.

Didn't Grimmy already claim? Or do you mean full claim?

[Rishi]

It's true.. and I am inclined to Follow Tar's lead, as crazy as he has been, with this talk of abandoning us... BUT... If KoC is lying.. and Mac IS a jailkeeper... does he not die tonight at the Mafia's hands?

Anyway .. here are the outcomes.. as far as I can see.
It seems pretty equivalent to me. Except for option E.

a) KoC is lying.

We lynch Koc,

losing 1 scum. the Scum kill Macavity, we lose a power role. Tomorrow we are down 2 (1PR, 1

scum

)

There's a flaw here, though. The rest of your analysis seems okay, but what if there's a protective role in the mix? If we lynch KoC and he turns out to be lying, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that MacavityLock will die.

It would seem odd that there would be two protective roles but something funky could happen during the night.

Unvote, Vote: Knight of Cydonia

[Rishi]

You know, there were other people on the KoC wagon (including KoC himself - the only reason that I ever feel a self-vote is useful is if someone is scum wanting to end the day early to limit the spread of information), so I'm not sure why I'm getting so much attention.

My reason for voting KoC was simple: MacLock claimed a power role while KoC was (at that point) a vanilla townie. Yeah, I found ML more suspicious than KoC throughout Day 1, but we had a situation where we had two players, one of whom must have been scum. I was hoping that, if ML was telling the truth, we'd still have the power role around.

I find two scum groups very unlikely. Since Fark's roleblock of me didn't have any effect, it means that two potential kills were stopped in two other ways, which seems a bit coincidental. Probably one scum group and something like a doc protection.

Finally, I'd like to hear from andersonw. It was obvious that either ML or KoC was scum towards the end of the day, but no vote at all?

[Rishi]

Meh. The jailkeeper claim was a factor, but it still seems weird to go for the guy you think is less likely to be scum. I'll repeat my question from before: you thought two protective roles would seem odd, what about two roleblocking roles? What's your opinion of Fark?

I don't think there would be two roleblocking roles either, but I could see one roleblocking role and one protective role. I need to re-read Fark - I know I was suspicious of him yesterday. I don't like how his playstyle changed (it could be real life issues). He was so active early in the game and has been a lot more quiet as of late.

May I ask why this is scummy?

Because it's an obvious move to avoid suspicion. If you jumped on the ML bandwagon, it might have been seen as bussing. If you jumped on the KoC bandwagon, then it would have seemed that you were trying to save ML. You took the "safe" approach instead, which is why it seems scummy.

Does this mean that you believe Fark's claim?

Not necessarily. As I said above, I need to re-read Fark.

I think that, if we have any other protective roles, we need them to come out now - that's the only way we can build on Fark's claimed block of Rishi.

Good job rolefishing. You do realize that you're not in the clear? We have no proof that you didn't bus ML by faking a claim.

[Rishi]

After thinking about it, I think that my RB of Rishi is a bit of a wash. That's not to say we shouldn't ultimately string him up, (I obviously find him scummy for other reasons, particularly how he tried to push my lynch for weak reasons when I was fighting with Timeater) In fact, I will

vote:Rishi

Okay, I mentioned this before in this game, but it's worth saying again. You cannot use this defense. We don't know your alignment. It sounds like you're saying that, because, I was trying to lynch poor little you, it makes me scummy. Of course you're going to think of any arguments against you as weak.

Let's ask this. Did I really pick the wrong side in that argument? Do you still find Flask of Pestilence scummy? In fact, I'd wager to say that most players in the game would put you higher on the scumlist than FoP.

Now, here's an interesting tidbit. Who else is on my wagon because I had "weak reasons" for attacking him? KoC. Just because ML is scum, why are we not willing to still entertain the idea that KoC was playing a gambit? He's looking fairly squeaky clean at this point, just because ML turned up scum. There's a strong possibility that KoC was bussing his buddy.

Plus, (and this makes Fark looks less scummy, to be honest), he was expressing suspicion on Fark just because he scanned ML. If he was suspicious of Fark, why didn't he scan Fark?

The way you phrased this, you make him sound guilty no matter WHAT he would have done.

-vote ml- your scum thats bussing
-vote Koc- Scum trying to save ML
-no vote- Also scummy

seems kind of close minded, and it discredits much of the suspicion.

Nah. I don't think I would have seen andersonw as scummy if he picked a side. It's the fact that he refused to pick a side. I was just going through his thought process. Just suppose he was scum. He has three options in front of his: Vote ML, Vote KoC or Don't Vote. (I guess four, since he could have voted for someone else entirely, but I equate that with No Vote.) What would cautious scum pick in that situation? I think the No Vote seems like the safest course.

With the holiday coming up, I will be on sporadically monday tuesday and wednseday, and then will be home for a foru day weekend with no access whatsoever.

Have a good turkey day/tofu day (for all you vegans) all

Thanks for letting us know that you're going to continue to not participate in this game. Thanksgiving was a week away when you posted this.

[Rishi]

There's a strong possibility that KoC was bussing his buddy.

I have yet to see any evidence provided to imply that I was buddy-bussing, or indeed any decent case against me that isn't meaningless conjecture so unless anyone wishes to provide some, I suggest you give up on that front. I wouldn't actually mind if you were accusing me properly, but you've completely failed to give any evidence, no matter how twisted, not just of this buddying, but of me being scum at all.

You suggest that we give up? Okay, thanks.

Okay, here's something decent. You opened Day 2 asking all power roles to claim. A few people pointed out that this was a scummy thing to do. Now, this is NOT meaningless conjecture. You didn't say a single thing in your defense afterwords. You just chose to ignore the issue.

I'll point out this is not the first time you've been role-fishing in this game.
I'll do a PBPA of you later, but I'd like you to talk about your role-fishing first. Why do you think it's useful for the power roles to claim?

[Rishi]

Claim: Felix Gaeta. No special powers.

[Rishi]

Because there was no night kill? We already have a RB claim against you from fark, and I wanted to see if we were going to get a counter-claim - if we had, I'd have probably been more wary of Fark, but as it is, you're already No. 1 on my scum-list.
And I didn't choose to ignore the issue, as you put it - I just ceased asking for a claim. And I didn't ask for all power-roles to claim - I said:

I think that, if we have any other protective roles, we need them to come out now - that's the only way we can build on Fark's claimed block of Rishi.

which was essentially asking for any counter-claim/claimed block of Fark. So thanks for trying to misrep me in order to save your own skin - as if I needed more reasons to string up scum.

Okay, I'll respond to this. First of all, I will concede that you did not ask all power roles to claim, but all protective roles. There is a difference. But, even though you say that the purpose of claims was to verify Fark's claim, that's not what you said. You specifically asked for all protective roles to claim, not for a counterclaim.

After people agreed it was a bad play, you IGNORED the issue. I don't see the difference between saying that you stopped asking for a claim and ignoring the issue. Maybe you could illuminate me as to what the difference is. People pointed out scummy behavior that you made and you never answer the questions. You either ignore them or act all incredulous. This means you're either hiding something or you're too thin-skinned to be playing this game.

And how am I saving my own skin? My lynch is nearly inevitable at this point. All I am doing is pointing out some of your scummy behavior so that when I turn up town that people might focus their attention back on you.

And, remember, this isn't the first time you asked for a claim. Maybe you think people have forgotten about this little gem here:

ALL CYLONS, CLAIM MAKE AND MODEL NOW. FAILURE TO DO SO WILL BE INTERPRETED AS A MAJOR SCUMTELL.

Lovely.

@KoC
a) How does this lessen Fark's claim? Fark could easily have RB'ed Rishi-town OR Rishi-scum with OR without a Doc.
b) Does Doc claiming ensure Doc death? Almost always.
c) is his death worth YOUR peace of mind re: Fark??

Please.. answer these questions.

Now normally, if KoC hadn't really proven himself YESTERDAY, I would also be suspecting him because of rolefishing. So Rishi is totally in the right to call out KoC on it, because it is bad play.

THIS.

Kison: Place a couple random votes on people so I can stop thinking about this!

But but but... I like it when you think about me.

Hey, I'm the one who is supposed to be flirting with camn. Except I was scum in our last game and she still hasn't forgiven me. Right now I'm just giving her some space.

[Rishi]

Again, Rishi, you're interpreting my requests for specific claims/counter-claims as requests for mass claims. Asking Cylons to claim make and model would have helped me work on who to target my ability. As it is, I didn't get that info, but I got lucky on ML.

And once again, KoC, you pick up on a relatively minor part of the argument against you and ignore the rest.

[Rishi]

Sorry for not posting in a few days. Will get caught up in the next day or so.

[Rishi]

Vote: Rishi

[Rishi]

This game wasn't bad for town, but I am not sure why anyone would think that you guys deserve a scummy. MacavityLock didn't do himself any favors on Day 1 and I didn't play much better on Day 2. I chalk it up to the fact that I have played very very few games as scum, so I was unsure how to defend myself once the pressure started mounting. Also, claiming human was definitely a mistake for me - I was trying to avoid attention and I didn't realize there would be so many pro-town Cylon players.

One thing, though. I really think it was uncool for Tar to replace out. It seems to me that he didn't ask to replace out because he didn't have time to play, but because he felt like he could no longer win. Even if the odds are stacked against you, I think you have an obligation to fight it out. Fortunately, I think Kison did a stellar job as his replacement, and if anyone deserves a scummy out of this game, I think it's him for Best Performance in a Losing Cause.

I'm also not sure how I feel about having a two-headed account as a "player" in the game. I think one of my biggest weaknesses as a Mafia player is the fact that I lurk too much - not because it's my playstyle, but because I am very busy in real life (which is why I generally only play 2-3 games at a time). Having someone else help me out with posting would tremendously shore up that weakness. Also, I was unclear on whether Patrick and Incognito were allowed to discuss this game outside of the thread. If so, it's like adding an extra team member to whatever slot the player gets added to. Nothing personal against either of those guys - but as a mod, I personally wouldn't have let a two-headed account into the game. I respect destructor's decision (which is why I didn't complain during the game), but I really think it screwed us over replacing someone who was about to get lynched with what amounted to a super-player.

[Rishi]

I sincerely doubt you'd have got a mislynch even if it was only one of us replacing in though.

Fair enough. Point taken.

Your disappointment at the replacement seeped into one or two of your posts, unfortunately.

Really? I thought I was careful about it and I looked over my posts and can't find what you're talking about. I believe you if you picked up on it, but maybe you can point it out to me? If I'm unintentionally dropping scumtells, then I think I need to know about them.

[Rishi]

Thanks for pointing out those quotes, guys. I was very frustrated with this game and it showed up more than I wanted it to. Oh well. Every game is still a learning experience.

[Rishi]

You were just sad that we were on opposite teams AGAIN.

We have never been on the same side, I think!

That is sad.

Maybe some day...