Mini 679 - BSG: The Basestar (Game Over!)

[Farkshinsoup]

Vote: Channeldelibird

unvote

vote: iamusername

Dude, your centurion is showing.

[Farkshinsoup]

KingEnigma, you seem reluctant to random vote.

[Farkshinsoup]

Vote: Channeldelibird

unvote

Fark, what was this all about?

I won't answer at this time. Try again later, maybe.

[Farkshinsoup]

KE, that's funny, before my post 20, I did a quick meta on you and I must have stumbled on the 2 games where you random voted (one of them was your first newbie game in 2004 - bad sample).

Perusing your recent games, I see that you don't random vote. Carry on.

[Farkshinsoup]

So Tarhalindur might have some restriction that requires him to vote for a different person every time he posts. Or he's vote hopping maniacally for some other reason.

[Farkshinsoup]

Unvote: Vote Elmo

It seems like you are voting King solely because you have a gripe with his play style. Not good.

[Farkshinsoup]

I think that Elmo has a legitimate gripe with what KE is doing. It's not just play style.

I also think that Elmo has a legitimate gripe with KE. But that's not the issue. The question here should be: is KE's behaviour thus far a scumtell, or a null tell? I say it's a null tell because that's his meta. Of course, it doesn't mean that he's not scum, but I'd like Elmo (or anyone else) to make more of a case for it.

[Farkshinsoup]

unvote, vote: Farkshinsoup

for a highly unhelpful page 1. I don't know when deliberately not trying to help the random vote stage kickstart the game became

in vogue

, but it has to stop.

You shot who in the what now? What did I do ( or not do) on page 1 that you have a gripe with?

[Farkshinsoup]

Vote: Channeldelibird

unvote

Fark, what was this all about?

I won't answer at this time. Try again later, maybe.

That, basically, reads to me like "woo I'm so mysterious no info for you! Let's undermine the random voting stage by refusing to discuss things but intimating that they are important!"

I would draw a distinction between "refusing to discuss things" and "temporarily withholding information".

In every game I've played on MS, my first, random vote always goes to the first name on the list of players in post 1. I also usually explain this along with my vote. But I wanted to try something different this time (I stole this idea from Natirasha, who always self votes first, but doesn't explain it) and since iam's avatar is a cylon centurion, I also really wanted him to be my first vote, because it seemed too perfect. Hence my first post.

I wanted to see if that post would ping anyone's radar, and if anyone would check out my other games and figure out why I did it. Iam asked about it, Grimmy speculated (incorrectly) about it, and now my answer to iam's question has gotten you twisted up enough to put your vote on me. I now also know that the 3 of you have not checked out any of my previous games, so that tells me a little something about how you guys play.

I'd argue that that has generated more discussion than if I had just answered, "Oh, I always vote the first person on the list."

I find it interesting that you reacted so strongly to my non-answer. To characterize it as a "highly unhelpful page 1" is an overstatement. It seems like your vote on me is there to discourage a certain kind of play. Or possibly, it's a reaction to the fact that you don't know why I was acting the way I did, and that made you nervous for some reason. I'd like to hear more from you.

As far as I know, his meta is that he asks questions (etc) instead; I count not doing (or delaying) that as a small scumtell. Do you follow my train of thought, here?

Yes. This I can get behind. When I have a little more time, I'll try to read more KE games and see if this is the case.

unvote

[Farkshinsoup]

I approve of Tarhalindur vs. Timeater (BTW, how do I pronounce your name? Are someone who eats Time, or who eats Tim? Cause those are 2 very different kinds of eating. )

Information Instead of Analysis, anyone?

Since you're asking anyone, I think you're reaching a bit. Seemed like he was just summarizing his impressions of people up to that point.

What makes you think you can just demand answers out of everyone in this fashion under the guise of good scumhunting?

He has every right to ask you (or anyone else) these questions, and he really isn't being all that aggressive (I'm trying to imagine how thestatusquo would have done it). I would call it "direct and to the point".

I'd like to hear your answers. You seem evasive.

[Farkshinsoup]

And since when is there a Timeater vs Tarhlindur debate, Farkshinsoup?

I really just used "Timeater vs. Tarhalindur" as a shorthand to denote the interactions between you two.

[Farkshinsoup]

The "first vote" thing is really all I know about the guy. I've never played with him. My play style is still evolving, and i keep ripping stuff off from other players as I see fit.

So who else can we talk trash about?

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm not Tar But I think there is a good chance Fark is scum. Few things really stand out:

Vote: Channeldelibird

unvote

vote: iamusername

I won't answer at this time. Try again later, maybe.

Unhelpful much?

Yes, it was unhelpful. I've already explained why I did that. Why have you leap-frogged over my explanation from post 78 and reached back to point out that the original post was unhelpful? Do you believe my explanation? This feels like fake scum-hunting to me.

Unvote: Vote Elmo

It seems like you are voting King solely because you have a gripe with his play style. Not good.

Thats not at all why Elmo was voting for king. At least thats not the impression I got. I think he saw Elmo as a threat with his extremely proactive posting and came up with a BS reason for a vote (a reason which really isnt even technically correct) That doesn't sit right with me. Then he later goes on to conform when called on it.

I stated that this was my interpretation of Elmo's vote (Note the word "seems"). But you first categorically state that I was wrong about why Elmo was voting King, and then in the next sentence you say that this is your "impression". Which is it, verifiable fact, or your opinion?

And yes, I changed my mind, and my vote, after Elmo responded. Seems like you are trying to twist that to fit your notion that I am scum. Could it be that you, the admitted Elmo fanboy, are convinced I'm scum because I dared to challenge Elmo in the first place? Or is there another reason?

(directed at me)I'd like to hear your answers. You seem evasive.

I like how he doesn't bother answering the said questionaire himself but wants to hear my answers and goes on to state I'm being evasive. That just irks my scumdar. Its like one of those oh-so-subtle pot-shots scum take at townies for anything, ANYTHING, that could be construed as scummy. Those little, sometimes innocent seeming "pot-shots" are a great scumtell imo (and I've had alot of success with recognizing them).

This is ridiculous. Tarhalindur explicitly directed his questions to YOU in post 82. (and to KE in post 81). Why would I answer the questions? Please feel free to point out where I have evaded questions DIRECTED TO ME in this game. This is the scummiest thing I've seen in this game so far.

I approve of Tarhalindur vs. Timeater (and then goes on to backtrack saying he just used it to denote interactions bla bla bla)

I still say this is an attempt to brew up confusion and conflict. Thats just my personal view, but I'm sticking to that.

Well, at least you admit that this "argument" is only your opinion.

That crappy post, coupled with your strange veneration of Elmo (as if you have some inside knowledge that he is town) and your earlier evasiveness, is enough for me to

Vote:Timeater

[Farkshinsoup]

People I want to hear more from regarding the game so far: CDB, andersonw, Grimmy, Awesome Pants.

Timeater: vote placed against player who is making specious arguments against you =/= OMGUS. I leave it up to everyone else to determine the difference.

Also implying that Elmo and I are somehow connected is ludicrous. I have acknoledged him as a good town player and should be treated as such. Would I really be STUPID enough, if I were scum, to try to create a WIFOM-esq bond like that d1? The answer is no.

Sorry, I should have been clear, I wasn't trying to imply that you and Elmo were scum buddies when I said this:

Could it be that you, the admitted Elmo fanboy, are convinced I'm scum because I dared to challenge Elmo in the first place? Or is there another reason?

My implication was that as scum, you would have inside knowledge that Elmo was town, and would benefit from buddying up to him. How are you so sure that he is town at this point?

Really, is it fair of you to sit back and judge me of being evasive about not answering a questionaire style post when it easily could be applied to any player in this game?

Yes. The question was directed to you, and you obfuscated. I wanted to hear your answers and found you evasive. I called you out on it. What does "fair" even have to do with this?

I guess my main response to you, Fark, is this:

requoting questions that were asked of him and KE

I'm going to resist the urge to respond to that with extreme sarcasm. You've totally sidestepped my argument by just asking me the questions that were originally asked of you. I'm sure you're hoping that I won't answer them, so that you can then argue that I've evaded answering the very questions that you yourself did not want to answer. Wish granted! If anyone else but you wants me to answer these questions, I'd be glad to.

Now, please respond to my original argument. I'll post it again for your convenience:

(directed at me)I'd like to hear your answers. You seem evasive.

I like how he doesn't bother answering the said questionaire himself but wants to hear my answers and goes on to state I'm being evasive. That just irks my scumdar. Its like one of those oh-so-subtle pot-shots scum take at townies for anything, ANYTHING, that could be construed as scummy. Those little, sometimes innocent seeming "pot-shots" are a great scumtell imo (and I've had alot of success with recognizing them).

This is ridiculous. Tarhalindur explicitly directed his questions to YOU in post 82. (and to KE in post 81). Why would I answer the questions? Please feel free to point out where I have evaded questions DIRECTED TO ME in this game. This is the scummiest thing I've seen in this game so far.

[Farkshinsoup]

I didn't think anything in particular would jump out at me during a re-read, but there's this here:

KingEnigma, you seem reluctant to random vote.

You know, I probably wouldn’t have even noticed that KE didn’t random vote if Fark didn’t point it out. Then, after things got stirred up, he immediately withdrew his suspicion. Then, later, Fark jumps on people for criticizing KE’s “play style," when he really started it.

My original statement was pretty neutral. I usually try to choose my words pretty carefully. Notice I did not say, "I find it suspicious that you are not random voting." or "I find it scummy that you are not random voting." It was early in the game, and I was trying to generate discussion by pointing out something I had noticed. So there was no suspicion to withdraw, and I never criticized his play style in the first place.

This is really what stood out to you on your re-read? I'd like you, and others, to weigh in on Timeater's arguments for my scumminess: Good, bad, or ugly?

[Farkshinsoup]

OK, this is kind of ridiculously hypocritical. Either it's scummy to evade these questions or it isn't. You can't have it both ways. Sure, maybe Timeater is using them as a smokescreen to distract from other things. Why can't you point this out AND answer the questions?

I think "ridiculously hypocritical" is a bit of hyperbole, but I get your point. Since you've requested, I'll answer:

Given what you currently know, do you think Elmo is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

No, cause I haven't seen any real scumtells.

Given what you currently know, do you think iamausername is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

No, he's active and is asking the right questions, IMO.

Given what you currently know, do you think that I, Timeater, am scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

Yes, based on stuff I've already posted. Not certain by any means, but you're my top candidate.

Given what you currently know, do you think King Enigma is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

Don't know, jury's still out.

Given what you currently know, do you think Tarhlindur is scum? Please answer yes or no, and give reasoning.

He's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, etc. I have no read on him.

Now, onwards.

Is it good town play to avoid questions posed in a serious manner that hope to benefit the town? The questions I posed were not meant to be sarcastic, merely answered so the game is even.

What is your obsession with "fairness" and things being "even". This game is, at its core, full of unfairness. It's unfair when innocent townies get lynched. It's unfair when townies are set up by scum. Why does everyone have to ask and answer the same questions? How does that help catch scum, who, by the way, have an "unfair" advantage by knowing who their buddies are and the abiliity to talk to each other and kill at night?

Also, it's disingenuous for you to imply that you asked me those questions because you thought my answers would "benefit the town."

Sure, maybe Timeater is using them as a smokescreen to distract from other things.

QFT.

[Farkshinsoup]

I think Tim's arguments are good. I didn't feel the need to repeat them.

Fair enough, it's good to know where you stand.

I'm claiming that you're an instigator.

QFT. I was trying to generate discussion early on, when there wasn't much to talk about. But why do you equate "instigator" with "scum"?

It's funny that you raised an issue, which raised suspicion on both people who participated in the argument (KE and Elmo) and you seemed to slip away unnoticed.

I take issue with "unnoticed". I've been noticed by CDB, Timeater, Iam, you, and Elmo in the short time this game has been going on. I've hardly been hiding in the shadows, either. If you're reading all of this into that original statement about KE's lack of a random vote, you're making a lot of assumptions, IMO.

I'm going to shut up for a bit. There are players I'd like to hear from, and I feel like me vs. Timeater could be giving scum the opportunity to lurk.

[Farkshinsoup]

mod, I have a vote on Timeater, and I believe he has one on me.

[Farkshinsoup]

EBWOP: oops, sorry, realized I never unvoted

unvote, vote: Timeater

[Farkshinsoup]

Timeater, that last post feels to me like, "Well, I can't get a wagon going on Fark, so I'll jump on the one against KE."

That having been said, King Enigma, every time you post you say bupkis. When we were in the random stage I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but now there is plenty to comment on, aside from the fact that you get lynched early in all your games. You say you play differently. Could you please explain what it is you do, aside from take up space?

[Farkshinsoup]

Mod: I will be V/LA this weekend, please see my sig for details.

[Farkshinsoup]

Aside from Tar's post, not a lot happening. That post did make me smile, though.

I'm not trying to smokescreen anything, lol. Please tell me what I'm "smokescreening".

Anyway, looking over your answers, only one thing stands out:

Quote:
Don't know, jury's still out.


Whats this mean, you basically will follow votes and join a wagon if the critical suspicion mass on KE reaches its teetering point? I dont like that. Please clarify if thats not what you meant. Also, I dont see how this information, as you claim, is disingenuous. Can you point out how I am not being sincere here?

Tarhalindur specifically asked me to respond to this point. At the time, I meant that I couldn't get a read on him because there wasn't much there.

Now I would say that he seems more scummy to me. When I call him out for not scum hunting, he votes me. Not really OMGUS, but it just feels... lazy, for lack of a better word. Not enough for an FoS, let's call it IGMEOY.

Awesome Pants, we need to hear more from you. What is your read on me? On Timeater? Who's your top scum?

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm here, but not really feelin' it. Day one discussion is boring.

Sorry, not good enough. I asked you some questions, please answer them:

Awesome Pants, we need to hear more from you. What is your read on me? On Timeater? Who's your top scum?

[Farkshinsoup]

Sorry for not posting, I got distracted by a new gadget.

What would you think of me if I found you town? Scum? Why did you ask what I thought of Timeater?

The point of me asking, and you answering, is to try to get you to take a stand on the two "bandwagon" players in this game. You haven't taken a stand on anyone or anything in this game so far, I haven't seen any scum hunting to speak of, and that's making it impossible to for me to get any kind of a read on you.

In other news, I've seen nothing to make me change my mind about Timeater. His recent actions have left me confused, to be honest. Awaiting an explanation.

[Farkshinsoup]

Elmo, can you please elaborate on why you tried to float a no lynch, and why you floated it towards Iam specifically?

[Farkshinsoup]

Hi, I'll post something tomorrow. For now, I'm curious to see if anyone else figured why.

I tried to think on it, but i'm in the dark. Anybody?

[Farkshinsoup]

Elmo, you want to elaborate now?

[Farkshinsoup]

Timeater hasn't posted anywhere since last Sunday. I would like to hear from him. I'd also like to hear from Elmo about his no lynch comment to iam, the difference is that Elmo has been posting everywhere on the board, so

FoS Elmo

for lurking.

We have a deadline coming up, and I think we should all start thinking about who we'll vote for. Anyone who lurks or passively allows this day to go to no lynch will be my first target on Day 2.

Obviously, my first lynch choice is Timeater, but I could probably get behind a KE lynch at deadline.

[Farkshinsoup]

My first lynch choice is Farkshinsoup, but I could probably get behind a Farkshinsoup lynch at deadline.

I've always found it odd that people wouldn't vote for who they think is the scummiest, just whoever has the best chance of being lynched? Come ON!

Sometimes, to avoid a no-lynch situation, especially on Day 1, it's pro-town to lynch someone other than your top choice. Please show me how it's not.

So do you'd rather stick with a useless vote until deadline than go to the next person down your list in order to reach a consensus? Is that a passionately held (and wrongheaded) belief, or did you just now adopt it because I listed you as my number 2 lynch choice and you did the math with the other players?

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm starting to get torn here - I really think that Timeater is scum, but I'm extremely reluctant to lynch an inactive player (since said inactive player will not have a chance to claim).

QFT. This is why, with the deadline looming, we need to identify where everyone stands. Timeater has not posted anywhere, and he's in another active game where his last post was prior to his last post here. I don't think he's lurking, he most likely has RL issues.

[Farkshinsoup]

AP, deadline coming - who would you vote for? Please stop being so obtuse. It's irritating.

[Farkshinsoup]

Mod, what are the chances of a deadline extenson?

It's been nearly a week since Timeater has been on the site, and since he's our top lynch candidate at the moment, this kind of throws a monkey wrench into the works.

More later.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm really not liking Tarhalindur's post. There's a lot of text, but not a lot of persuasive argumentation. Was Elmo lurky earlier? Yes. Could his recent actions be interpreted as anti-town? Sure. But it seems like you are inflating the case against him, trying to make him the lynch. Also, this, in particular, troubles me:

even if you were guaranteed to be town I would consider a policy lynch.

At worst, Elmo is being deliberately obscure and tight-lipped. To suggest that this behaviour is worthy of a policy lynch, regardless of his alignment, is a scumtell, IMO.

FoS Tarhalindur.

[Farkshinsoup]

Thread explosion. I need to go back and re-read from the start. I may have been wrong about Tim/Flask. For now,

unvote

.

[Farkshinsoup]

Sorry guys, been busy. I'm about half way through my re read, post coming later today.

[Farkshinsoup]

Ok, re-read is done.

Tar is my top scum, mostly because of his post 291 (Page 12), where he jumps on Elmo and suggests the policy lynch, REGARDLESS OF ALIGNMENT. As has been suggested, Elmo's behaviour seemed like a null to me, designed to inflame, but not necessarily scummy.

Vote: Tarhalindur

But this mystery needs to be solved first:

I don't know about you guys, but I have a destiny.

Speaking of that... testing, testing, one two three...

Unvote, Vote: ChannelDelibird
Unvote, Vote: Timeater
Unvote, Vote: Rishi
Unvote, Vote: Farkshinsoup
Unvote, Vote: Awesome Pants
Unvote, Vote: iamausername
Unvote, Vote: Tarhalindur
Unvote, Vote: Elmo
Unvote, Vote: andersonw
Unvote, Vote: MacavityLock
Unvote, Vote: Grimmy
Unvote, Vote: KingEnigma
Unvote

Pardon me, I should probably do this now. Part 1:

Unvote, Vote: KingEnigma

Part 2:

Unvote, Vote: Timeater

There. What's done is done.

What is the deal with this Tar? Is this some role requirement?
Is this something that you are not allowed to discuss?

Or is this a red herring? (This one is directed at everyone else) I guess I'd like to see some kind of role claim from Tar sooner than later so that if we need to go elsewhere for our lynch we have some time to do it. Any thoughts?

Fos: Forbiddenlight

Mostly, for this:

Look, I think timeater is the lynch whether he's active or not.

At the time, I was checking on Tim's status on the boards and could see that he'd dropped off. I was fairly certain that the mod, if requested by us, would replace him and extend the deadline. But Forbidden seemed to be exhorting us to get on with the lynch no matter what. I would vote her as a 2nd choice.

I'm getting kind of a bad feeling from Rishi:

I didn't think anything in particular would jump out at me during a re-read, but there's this here:

KingEnigma, you seem reluctant to random vote.

You know, I probably wouldn’t have even noticed that KE didn’t random vote if Fark didn’t point it out. Then, after things got stirred up, he immediately withdrew his suspicion. Then, later, Fark jumps on people for criticizing KE’s “play style," when he really started it.

My original statement was pretty neutral. I usually try to choose my words pretty carefully. Notice I did not say, "I find it suspicious that you are not random voting." or "I find it scummy that you are not random voting." It was early in the game, and I was trying to generate discussion by pointing out something I had noticed. So there was no suspicion to withdraw, and I never criticized his play style in the first place.

This is really what stood out to you on your re-read? I'd like you, and others, to weigh in on Timeater's arguments for my scumminess: Good, bad, or ugly?

I think Tim's arguments are good. I didn't feel the need to repeat them.

And, yes, it did jump out on me. It seems like a neutral statement, but the fact is that you were the catalyst to the whole conversation about KE. It's funny that you raised an issue, which raised suspicion on both people who participated in the argument (KE and Elmo) and you seemed to slip away unnoticed. I'm claiming that you're an instigator.

This post sticks in my craw (and not just because he had just voted me). Many players have acknowledged that Tim made some crappy arguments, it's why I went after him so hard (and made a few of my own crappy arguments - that's how I roll, yo!). But Rishi, who's a pretty sharp player, upon rereading, has no problem with them. To boot, the thing that sticks out to him is this observation I made about KE and his reluctance to random vote. And to top it off, at that point I had clearly been pretty active and aggressive, yet he accuses me of instigating and slipping away unnoticed.

Rishi has also called me out for lurking after the "heat" shifted from me. Huh, What? Much more lurky players than me. It seems like he's trying hard to make a case against me wherever he can with some pretty flimsy accusations.

Not sure what to make of it. I'll probably look closer on Day 2, but I wanted to put that out there today, just in case.

FoS Rishi

In other news, as I've said before I do believe that scum will have a vested interest in seeing a deadline pass with no-lynch, so let's see where we stand so that doesn't happen.

Question to everyone: Who would you be willing to lynch today?

Some of you have already answered, I know.

[Farkshinsoup]

I should really check the rules before I mouth off.

10. At deadline, the player with the most votes (marked with a asterisk) will be lynched. In the event of a draw, the player who had the most votes before being tied will be lynched.

I've been operating under the assumption that we needed a majority to lynch at deadline. (I assumed this back before the first deadline got changed, as well) My bad.
I'm aware that my current vote on Tar is the one that would lynch him if nothing changes. I'm okay with that. I do still think that it would be better to get votes from everybody before the deadline.

[Farkshinsoup]

Yeah, how in the hell is iamausername tied with me for second place?

[Farkshinsoup]

At the time, I was checking on Tim's status on the boards and could see that he'd dropped off. I was fairly certain that the mod, if requested by us, would replace him and extend the deadline. But Forbidden seemed to be exhorting us to get on with the lynch no matter what. I would vote her as a 2nd choice.

Problem with that is I didn't check his activity. I actually figured he was active lurking because he didn't want to deal with everything levied at him.

Here's what I said in post 252, near the top of page 11:

Timeater has not posted anywhere, and he's in another active game where his last post was prior to his last post here. I don't think he's lurking, he most likely has RL issues.

A little further down the page, in post 259 (posted about 1 hour after mine), you said this:

Look, I think timeater is the lynch whether he's active or not. I honestly think it would not be conducive to try to switch bandwagons with only four days left. I'm also pretty sure that tim is scum.

You didn't have to check his activity levels, because I mentioned it in thread. Since we were all discussing whether to lynch Tim in his absence, and you clearly engaged in that debate, it seems strange that you would now claim that you didn't have any knowledge of his activity levels on the board.

[Farkshinsoup]

Just because I participate in a debate doesn't mean I pay attention, odd as that sounds.

So, to be clear, you never read my post 252 and had no knowledge that Tim hadn't posted anywhere on the site?

(Also, have to agree with Rishi, could you please post the name of the person quoting when you quote? I noticed when I went back and did my reread that it was difficult keeping things straight in your posts, especially when you quote multiple sources in the same post )

[Farkshinsoup]

I agree with Elmo and Flask's latest posts, and I find both claims plausible (I give Forbiddan more points than Tar, though) I'll wait for Tar and Forbiddan to chime in first.

Unvote

I'm interested also to hear what you guys have to say about post 399.

Oh, and condolences to Rishi.

[Farkshinsoup]

Limited access for next 48 hours - I am cylon, not part of an informed minority.

[Farkshinsoup]

Hi camn.

I should be able to post more later today.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm really sort of stuck for where to go now; I've got an unusually long list of people I don't want to lynch for D1, but no one at all that I have any particular desire to see dead.

QFT.

Last I checked, D'anna was a royal PITA to everyone, right?

What does this mean?

[Farkshinsoup]

Hmmm, Grimmy's posting elsewhere on the board. He seems to be in a lot of games, and he may be prioritizing where he posts, he complained about RL issues in another thread. Worth an

FoS

.

Vote: Anderson

. He seems to be posting just enough to stay off the radar, haven't seen much scum hunting. He seems to get out of the way when there's a skirmish. Need to do a proper re-read on the guy.

Hi KoC.

[Farkshinsoup]

EBWOP:

Just to be clear,

FoS: Grimmy

[Farkshinsoup]

Interpreted by you, maybe. But since I've already said I'm a cylon, I see no harm in this. I'm a number 2 (no toilet jokes please). For those of you keeping track, that's Leoben, the whackadoo who imprisoned Starbuck on New Caprica and who thinks she's got a destiny. I was never given a name by the mod, just a model number, but thanks to wikipedia, I figured it out.

[Farkshinsoup]

And I would like to reiterate. . I am against this claiming business TODAY.

I get why you are against this. But think of it this way - in a regular game, your role would say something like "you are a vanilla townie, you win when all the scum are dead." So you know what team you're on, you know you're not a part of an informed minority (that's scum), and you also know that scum are going to try to pretend to be town in order to win.

In this game, though, (based on what I can glean from my role pm), all I really know is that I am not part of an informed minority, one of the conditions for being "scum". I don't know what team I'm on, and I don't know what team scum are on, so to speak.

So this limited claiming is necessary, because I assume that scum, (which could be humans, cylons, or some combination of the 2) know who they all are. Basically, it's like we are claiming "townie" without any knowledge about what side that puts us on. We all need that information so we can direct our lynches in the right direction. So far, we're not asking people to reveal everything about their roles, but names and identifiers are going to help town, I think. We are giving scum some information, (although they would already know who they need to kill to win) but we're getting much more info in return.

I'll tell you, when I first started the game, I wasn't actually certain that I was "town", but since I had so little information, I decided to just proceed as if I was, and now that we've gotten this stuff out in the open, I'm on much surer footing.

And remember, both Forbidden and Tar basically roleclaimed because they were lynch candidates. That happens in every mafia game once someone is about to go down.

Twos are aligned with the Sixes and Eights (sans Boomer) in the "Can't we all just get along?" rebel faction.

That's how I remember it. KoC, nothing I can really say to defend myself here, since it's all based on flavour interpretation.

I'd like to hear the other cylons give their model numbers, and names.

Also, I've completely lost track of who is and isn't a cylon, I'll have to go back and make notes about that.

[Farkshinsoup]

simulpost - I see you unvoted me KoC.

[Farkshinsoup]

Just an FoS? Isn’t that the definition of lurking? Ignoring one game while posting actively in others?

Yes, but he already had some votes on him, I was more interested in putting my vote on anderson, who I consider to be actively lurking. (posting without saying much). It's a worse crime IMO.

With the deadline, we should start talking about who we would lynch. Remember it will just take a simple majority, so we should actually be able to figure it out pretty easily.

I'd lynch Macavity, Anderson, maybe rishi, although I'm less keen on that now.

[Farkshinsoup]

I don't like grimmy's claim at all. It doesn't fit. Any name or model number, Grimmy?

[Farkshinsoup]

Just to refresh everyone's memory, this was how I claimed:

I'm a number 2 (no toilet jokes please). For those of you keeping track, that's Leoben, the whackadoo who imprisoned Starbuck on New Caprica and who thinks she's got a destiny. I was never given a name by the mod, just a model number, but thanks to wikipedia, I figured it out.

Not much more to say about it, really.

Farkshinsoup claims to be a number 2 but doesn't have a name, a wiki search reveals number 2 to be Leoben Conoy.

One question: why did you need to search to find this out, I specifically mentioned how I had to search wikipedia for the same info in my post where I claimed.

The question is: would there be a Leoben and another 2 who isn't specifically Leoben? It's certainly possible, and a good way for the mod to keep us guessing.

Was anyone else given this much information about their alignment?

No.

[Farkshinsoup]

God, I hope you did that on purpose :}

Oh my gods, yes!

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm not liking the no lynch, I'm interested in what KoC has to say about recent developments. As encouragement,

unvote, vote: Knight of Cydonia

[Farkshinsoup]

Fark, if you are a town-aligned cylon, why would you make this random vote?

Remember, I was uncertain at the start about exactly what team I was on. I didn't deliberately place that vote to seem "anti-cylon," if that's what you're implying. There wasn't a lot of deep thought there, it mostly just seemed amusing to me that your av is an actual centurion, so that's where I put my vote during the random stage.

I will say that it did not seem like a good idea at the time to proclaim my cylon status - I wanted to wait and see.

[Farkshinsoup]

oh, and

unvote

.

[Farkshinsoup]

camn, if I was a non-cylon deliberately trying to mislead back in my first post, why would I fake claim as a specific cylon model when I had no pressure on me, and no reason to do so?

[Farkshinsoup]

You're right, I misspoke. The second part of my claim (model #) came after you called for that info. I answered not because I was worried about being caught in a lie, but because putting that info out there seemed innocuous enough. So let me re-phrase my last question to camn: if I was a non-cylon deliberately trying to mislead back in my first post, why would I originally fake claim as a cylon when I had no pressure on me, and no reason to do so?

[Farkshinsoup]

Ok, I see your point, and I see how my vote for the guy with the centurion av could be seen as a strategy to appear non-cylon. I wasn't really thinking about any of this when I voted him. I can't really defend it.

To be honest camn, I'd rather you lynched me than vote no-lynch, if that's what it comes down to. Of course, I'd much rather we lynched someone else entirely, but you know, if it comes to that, I'll fall on my sword.

[Farkshinsoup]

KoC: you replaced in, so you probably missed the first part of the day where I went hard after Timeater. After he disappeared, I admit that I kind of lost my focus. I also got a little lazy in this game, and I'm sort of waiting for the day to end. I apologize for that, but that's the way it is. I have no strong scum feel from anyone, and I've been hoping that someone would slip up or start acting scummy.

[Farkshinsoup]

Ok, here's the full claim: I am Number 2, a toaster who is allied with the cylons. I choose a player during the day (it has to be before we get to night), and that night, I confuse him with spiritual thoughts and mysteries so that he can't do anything. I assume I'm some sort of roleblocker. (this was another reason that I was confused about exactly whose side I was on). I win when all enemies to my side are dead. (I've been careful to paraphrase here, don't want to get modkilled)

Anderson, I'll try to answer your question tomorrow (I don't have time right now).

[Farkshinsoup]

Do you know who your fellow cylons are? Can you communicate at night?

Again, I want to be careful here, don't want to violate general rule number 3, but let's just say that I asked myself these exact same questions and before we started Day 1, I was satisfied that the answer to both of those questions is: no.

[Farkshinsoup]

And why, pray tell, did you have to ASK yourself if you knew who the other cylons were?
Did you get SOME names of other players.. but it wasn't indicated if they were cylon?

Me.. I got NO names of anyone... so it was pretty clear that I didn't know who anyone was. I didn't have to ask myself anything.

I don't get it

.

Sorry camn, I'm not being as clear as I would like because I don't want to be mod-killed. I need you to extrapolate a little here.

I also got "no names of anyone", but because I was a cylon, I thought there may have been an oversight on the part of the mod. Let's just say that I received clarification, and that answered my questions. The same questions that Rishi asked me in post 565.

(Thanks for the birthday wishes. I'll be eating cake later. And drinking. Not necessarily in that order.)

[Farkshinsoup]

Huh. So it's Mac or KoC. I'll try to look a little closer and have a vote by tomorrow morning.

[Farkshinsoup]

Questions for Macavity:

As I said, I am Natalie, a Number 6 model and leader of the group looking to find the Final Five cylons so as to unite with the humans. I win when my group is safe from all dangers.

I'm still unclear about who you are allied with. How much of this is you extrapolating? You earlier said that you were a cylon allied with the cylons. Were you told that you actually lead a group? A group of what or who? And your win condition is that you win when your group is "safe from all dangers?" Can you please clarify.

I am also very good at taking hostages. I have much experience from when the humans tried to betray my faction last time.

To be clear, what are you referring to when you say "last time"?

[Farkshinsoup]

If I'm counting right, that puts Mac at L-1. Mac, can you please post your info about model 3 that you keep alluding to? Please no one hammer until Mac has a chance to post.

For my part, I have not decided how I will vote yet, I'm waiting for the answers to my questions from above, but I will make a decison in a few hours if we haven't heard from him.

[Farkshinsoup]

I've never said anything about being a "cylon allied with the cylons". I'm pretty sure that was someone else.

My bad, I jotted down some notes, and I was unclear about what you had said. This is it, for the record:

As for mini-claim, I am a cylon, with no reason to believe that I am part of an informed minority.

My role PM indicated that I was the leader of the cylon faction looking to unite with the humans, but that I did not know who was who around here due to memory loss.

The memory loss thing seems weird. Did someone else have that in their role, or am i thinking of you? Could be a flavour thing to justify you not knowing who your teammates are.

I don't know what to do here. This is a damn good fake claim if it is one, 'cause it's got me wondering. I'm going to go with my head and vote for KoC with the idea that losing a vanilla townie won't be as bad as losing the power role that Mac potentially represents. If KoC is town, then we can be 100% sure that Mac is scum, and lynch accordingly tomorrow.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

[Farkshinsoup]

1) you said this "I am Number 2, a toaster who is allied with the cylons." Did you insert the word "toaster".. or did you read it?

Toaster was inserted by me to avoid directly quoting my pm.

2) You also mentioned that Mac was "a cylon allied with the cylons"... where did that come from? He never said that... did you maybe read it in your OWN PM?
Yes, it's in my own PM. Also, forbiddan said it in post 388, which is why I believe her claim. As

I said previously, I had jotted down a note that Mac had claimed cylon, and when I read over the note, I "misremembered" that he used the phrase, but he never did.

3) In your last post, where you vote KoC.. you say "This is a damn good fake claim if it is one". How was it a good fake-claim? Specifically. Jailkeeper/godfather?

Well, at it's most basic level, I thought it was a good claim because I found it believable. Specifically, there was no other Natalie out there, which was a calculated risk, and the claim seemed quite detailed in a way that I tended to believe it. Also, he was a power role, so I was inclined to keep him alive. Ultimately, I found it just believable enough to put my vote on KoC.

Now, onwards: we had no NK last night. I did choose a target to block last night, and I'm wondering if those two events are connected. For the record, I used my jedi mind tricks on Rishi.

I also think it's possible that we have 2 scum groups - 1 cylon (of which Macavity was a part) and 1 human. This is based on the fact that Mac was revealed as being part of the Cylon Mafia - implies that there is another kind of mafia out there.

[Farkshinsoup]

So.. you area cylon allied with the cylons.
Mac was also a cylon allied with the cylons.

No, Mac was Simon, a cylon allied with the Cylon Mafia. There's a difference.

[Farkshinsoup]

My reason for voting KoC was simple: MacLock claimed a power role while KoC was (at that point) a vanilla townie. Yeah, I found ML more suspicious than KoC throughout Day 1, but we had a situation where we had two players, one of whom must have been scum. I was hoping that, if ML was telling the truth, we'd still have the power role around.

This is exactly why I voted KoC. It may not have been the best move, but just saying, it's a plausible explanation.

I think that, if we have any other protective roles, we need them to come out now - that's the only way we can build on Fark's claimed block of Rishi.
It almost looks like D1 again - one of them is probably lying, and is scum - it's simply a case of picking the right one today, and hoping.

I don't think we should set this up as an "either/or" situation. It's not like yesterday, when clearly one of you was lying - it's possible that we are both telling the truth. The only way to shed light on it would be to expose our other protective roles (if we have any), which, at this point, I am against.

After thinking about it, I think that my RB of Rishi is a bit of a wash. That's not to say we shouldn't ultimately string him up, (I obviously find him scummy for other reasons, particularly how he tried to push my lynch for weak reasons when I was fighting with Timeater) In fact, I will

vote:Rishi

And

FoS andersonw

. Anderson, who is your top scum candidate right now? Doesn't have to be 100%, but I want to hear you express a firm opinion on someone.

[Farkshinsoup]

Promising to claim, stalling, and then walking out is pretty scummy.

Am I missing something? When did this happen?

[Farkshinsoup]

Yeah, I'm slow, I had a suspicion that was what was happening, but I almost asked my question before he answered.

[Farkshinsoup]

Sorry, I'm hoping to post something more substantial later this week.

Farkshinsoup is more due to the wagon that formed on him at the end of the day, but more importantly he is the one who just claimed Jailkeeper.

For the record, I claimed roleblocker, not Jailkeeper.

[Farkshinsoup]

Still here, still very busy, I apologize, things should be better soon.

[Farkshinsoup]

I haven't found much to comment on since it appears to me Rishi is just digging deeper and everyone is calling him out on it before I can. I'll try to do better with this.

What she said.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm focusing my efforts on another game that I've neglected (even more than this one) at the moment, but I am here, and hope to be a bit more involved in the next few days.

[Farkshinsoup]

Sorry, I almost missed that - I can target during twilight apparently, so I should be good, I just sent it in to the mod. I targetted anderson.

[Farkshinsoup]

Sorry guys, I would have liked to have done a whole re-read before choosing my target (especially Day 2, which I'm not up to date on), but I got caught out there. Here's hoping I make it to Day 3.

[Farkshinsoup]

Well, as I announced during twilight yesterday, I blocked andersonw. So, yeah, WIFOM for sure. What does everyone think about a mass claim at this point?

[Farkshinsoup]

Centurion Claus! Comes down your chimney and delivers shiny, metallic death to all the human boys and girls!

[Farkshinsoup]

Again, I'm for a mass claim, waiting for elmo and KoC to check in and give their 2 cents. I'd like to do a re read of Day 1 as well, I'm sure there's some good info there, but I don't have time at the moment.

Right now I'm asking myself what is more likely: that anderson is our scum, and got rb'd, or that the remaining scum chose not to submit a NK, hoping that anderson would be mislynched. That would mean leaving me alive, with the possibility that I might rb them tonight. It would also, if kison is telling the truth, mean that they would be exposing themselves to an investigation last night, and possibly one tonight (if they chose to kill me and were not rb'd). Does a gunsmith get a "dangerous" result on a Godfather?

There has to be some kind of power role on the scum side, and I don't think we've seen any yet.

[Farkshinsoup]

What does Strong Bad do when he comes down the chimney?

Nunchuck guns in every stocking! (thanks for the av!)

[Farkshinsoup]

A possibly better plan than the one Incog suggested above might be to no-lynch and ask Fark to roleblock anderson. If anderson is scum, he's still screwed. If anderson is town and someone else is scum who tried to set him up, they'd have to kill, which would clear anderson and avoid us mislynching him.

Am I thick here? Why couldn't this hypothetical scum just do the same thing he did last night, i.e. no night kill?

[Farkshinsoup]

Ok, right. That sounds good to me.

[Farkshinsoup]

ok, let's make sure we give kison time to do his vote voodoo thing. I've already submitted andersonw as my roleblock target.

[Farkshinsoup]

Haven't heard much from Iam today.

[Farkshinsoup]

Have I just been dayvigged? Cause if you're gonna do that then please at least spell my name right!

I'll also

vote: Grimmy

, if that means anything.

[Farkshinsoup]

ok,

unvote

. Oh, Grimmy. Dear, sweet, Grimmy. I'll miss you most of all!

[Farkshinsoup]

Sheeeit, that was fun! I've been following along since I got frakkin daykilled (no hard feelings, grim). So many twists and turns. Good game all! I'm so proud that I had Rishi's number from early on - it's probably the first time I've really had a good read on scum that early in a game. (of course, I was also dead wrong about timeater/ flask on day 1 - gotta take the good with the bad)

It was a pleasure to play with so many good townies - I learned a lot in this game.

So scum was provided with fake claims by the mod? Is that common on MS? First time I've encountered it.

All of this, and BSG to boot. The game ends just in time for the final season!

[Farkshinsoup]

Thanks, destructor, I had a blast.

I have to agree that Tar's fake claim was great, but ultimately I think he made a mistake with the whole voting pattern thing. While it did make his claim more believable, in my eyes, it also required him to pretty much fake claim from the start, before he had even garnered any suspicion.

Kison, thanks for replacing into that difficult situation and seeing it through. Also, thanks again for my xmas avatar.

As for game balance, I'll leave that to some of our more theory oriented players.

[Farkshinsoup]

I think that town should be congratulated for 2 actions (or non-actions) that happened after I died.

1- not automatically assuming that grimmy was scum for his daykill.
2- not automatically assuming that camn was scum for lying about her role. (I must admit, that on the sidelines, I was yelling, "Lynch All Liars - she's scum!")