Mini 634 - The Baron's court: Game over

[qwints]

Hey everyone. I'm reading back through the thread now.

[qwints]

OK, here are my initial impressions.

I find Mariyta and thinktank the most suspicious.

I thinks proposal for a bandwagon lynch is extermely scummy.
Maryita pushed the binary vote possibility on day 1 really hard and turned out to be wrong. She has also antagonized a number of players (which would be a null tell).

Next on my list is MafiaMann, his post to open D2 was a little too obvious (the one that mentioned the admiral's vote.) Also his refusal to clarify what his early bold comments meant feels weird.

I also think we should take a close look at Cass. The rules said there would be negative consequences for the town on a no-lynch and then Cass arrives...
This also implies that sekinj has not been cleared by Cass's information.

My predecessor was pressed for a claim, I'm not sure how much to divulge. I feel safe revealing that I am a female character played by a male.

I'll be back in eight or nine hours with a more detailed analysis.

[qwints]

EBWOP

would should be could.

[qwints]

Who wants to know what about me?

[qwints]

Why are you so eager to get names, sekinj? It looks like the 'b' thing you mentioned earlier has had very little impact. I've got no idea what names or nicknames mean in this game and so will wait to reveal mine until I know what the point is or until there's a clear demand for a roleclaim.

I'll go ahead and

unvote

for the moment while we figure out if we want a mass name claim.

[qwints]

Rage - wants me and Gremwell to roleclaim, ok with name claim
Sekinj - no roleclaim, wants mass name claim
Mariyta - ok with a name claim, has already revealed nickname
Gremwell - wants mass name claim

I guess I'm ok with a name claim. That makes five in favor. So I'll go ahead and reveal my name - Camille Vanderton.

[qwints]

So far we have,

seking: Chancellor Jeeves "Sage" Templeton
Mariyta: Frederic "Honor" Evergreen
qwints: Camille Venderton

[qwints]

seking should be sekinj

[qwints]

Sekinj - I notice that there are no names beginning with b. How do you explain that?

[qwints]

I received no anonymous letters. I was told in my flavor text, however, about someone sent by someone else to the area (some of you will know what I'm talking about.) I suppose that knowledge could have come by way of a mysterious letter.

I have to say that I find sekinj extremely suspicious at the moment. He seems to have been demonstrably wrong at least once (though I suppose it might have been a good scum-trap.) He was primarily responsible for the death of OGML, and ThAdmiral was critical of him. He has sought lots of information and tried to explain away of suspicion.
Thus, I will

vote seking

.

[qwints]

dammit, i mean

vote sekinj

[qwints]

I didn't ask if you received anonymous letters, I asked if you received any letters at all. This isn't incriminating right now, per se, it's just something I'd like to point out.

Let me be clear. I've received no letters. My flavor text implies that I have found something out. I suppose that (in flavor world) I could have found that out through letters.

I suppose that knowledge could have come by way of a mysterious letter. I don't understand this. Are you saying that I've received a mysterious letter, or that your flavour text may have been given to you by a mysterious letter?

As I said above, it's the latter.

Scum-trap, where? Evidence, please!

If someone claimed to have a first name starting with b, and then sekinj revealed that his knowledge said that no one had a name beginning with b then we sekinj would know that person was scum.

Rage, I'm not willing to role claim based solely on your request. If a majority asks for it, however, I will make one.

I was not responsible for OGML's death. I was not even voting him.

This is obviously false (as rage acknowledged.)

[qwints]

Nope, you made a pretty accurate read.

However, I don't think that a lack of outside information removes suspicion from sekinj. ThAdmiral was still pressing against sekinj before he was killed. OGML's death was completely due to sekinj.

His requests for information still bother me, though a re-read does show they didn't come out of the blue.

[qwints]

Why is OMGL the best candidate?

It looks like most people think the best lynch today would either be OGML or me. People are leaning toward believing me and lynching OGML because I have provided more detailed information and OGML has just said, "she's lying, I'm vanilla townie".

I think this post represents a little more antagonistic position than you represent.

[qwints]

Sekinj, I do not deny that your style is subtle, but you certainly weren't putting the brakes on the OGML lynch.

[qwints]

qwints, you are floundering horribly.

I don't understand what your point is. I thought I was pretty clear that I haven't received letters in game, but that it's plausible that my character has received letters.

I stand by my accusation of sekinj. The positions she took on the first day clearly led to the death of OGML. Just because she acted like she was against the lynch in no way changes the fact that the claim she made led to the lynch. Although she claims she was not voting for OGML's lynch, she did put him at L-1 in post 295 (although time was running out) and voted for him at post 268.

She has requested information early and often. Often these requests were in response to others asking for information, but I don't think anyone objectively reading the thread could say she was not responsible for a lot of information coming out. In post 60, she suggested people sharing her first name. This suggestion was in no way prompted by someone else asking for information first.

Combined with these two facts, sekinj seems unwilling to release much information. How much information does she really have? Is it worth the town not ever knowing if she gets nk'd?

I see no reason to disbelieve rage, but that in no way clears sekinj. The evil chancellor is a pretty common trope in fantasy. Maybe those who seem to believe sekinj have inside information I'm not privy to, but I see her as the best suspect.

On the other hand, I can confirm one of her statements. At one point, she said there were three known section, one unknown and one that would come into use. I know that there are five possible rooms: The village inn, the stables, the guest quarters and the mansion's left and right wing. Rage has also confirmed that a note was sent to her. Can anyone else confirm information from sekinj?

[qwints]

I mean that it is possible from my flavor text that my character received letters in the days before night 0. Since the game has started, i.e. since night 0, I have received no letters.

[qwints]

qwints: Do you seriously believe that because sekinj came out with her information way before OGML claimed that it's her fault he claimed when/how he did? OGML didn't reveal any role information until after sekinj had been in the spotlight for some time.

It is her fault if she made the information up. No one has a first name that starts with b. Cass has not claimed to have night powers (which would have gone a long way to verifying sekinj.)

[qwints]

I'm going to start with a few brief comments. First, that my role information does not contradict anything Sekinj has said. My arrival also seems a decent explanation of the misunderstanding on day one that led to the unfortunate death of the squire.

This is what Cass said. It does not prove that sekinj's original statements were true.

[qwints]

"My role information does not contradict anything Sekinj has said." How does that not confirm sekinj's information on 10 people having night actions? I guess it depends on how you interpret it, so please tell me, how did you interpret that?

Cass does not know who else has night actions. At the very most, Cass is only saying that he has a night action.

Mariyta, I believe you are town, but I think you have information that I don't. Otherwise, I don't think you would be so sure of sekinj.

[qwints]

1 person saying they have night powers does not confirm a claim that 10 people have night powers.

[qwints]

So everyone currently alive except sekinj has a night action?

[qwints]

I'm not looking for people to role claim. I was just seeing if anyone besides OGML didn't have one. One person without an action would certainly place sekinj's claim in a new light.

I still think sekinj pushed for more information than anyone else has. But given everyone's explanation, I will

unvote

.

[qwints]

Maybe. Maybe not. They saw what happened to OGML. Not to mention the fact that a lot of players seem to have unique win conditions based on what happens to another player.

I am, however, reading the defenses of sekinj as relatively solid proof of his good character, if not his truthfulness.

[qwints]

Read sekinj's post by themselves. She makes lots of requests for information and offers some information that has never been confirmed. That is why I was suspicious of her. Given other player's reactions and a re-read, it seems clear that those were not as scummy as they seemed at first glance.

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(2) qwints - Mariyta, Rage
(1) thinktank - sekinj

Not voting:

Cass, Gremwell, MafiaMann, PimHel, qwints, thinktank

Deadline:

Sunday 28 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[qwints]

I'm in the left wing of the mansion. My knowledge is what told me about the various rooms. Rage - there's nothing I can do to refute your knowledge. I think I've been consistent in my answers if unclear in my wording. My flavor text tells me I have acquired knowledge before the game started.

Furthermore, I've got no reason to suspect you rage. All I can say is I was truthful about my name. I count 4 people who seem to want a role claim from me - gremwell, sekinj, maryita and rage. If one more person requests, then I will claim.

[qwints]

I think I know what role you're hinting at.. but balance-wise it wouldn't make sense. That is, if you are pro-town. I won't say more until you've claimed, though, because otherwise I'm giving you wiggle room.

1. I am not the baron.
2. My night power is non-traditional and fairly weak.

[qwints]

Allright, here's my claim.

I am the Baroness. My full name is Lady Camille Vanderton. My power is an ability to move people between quarters at night and a one shot command ability for servants. I know that a messenger has come from the Prince to try to cleanse the area of a supernatural. (This was the information that came from a letter.) My predecessor never moved anyone.)

I have no choice but to reveal my identity and ask for loyalty from the servants.

Rage, I order you to vote for MafiaMann

vote MafiaMann

MafiaMann has failed to adequately explain what ensorsel meant and seems to be less than cooperative.

[qwints]

@qwints: do you know what purpose it serves to move people around between quarters?

No. I do know that they don't have to stay where I put them and that they can move around after that. This implies that others have the ability to move between quarters. Does anyone have that ability?

If I had to speculate, I would guess that scum might get an advantage from being in the same quarters as their target. Thus, my ability might slightly hinder scum or backfire and help them.

[qwints]

Maybe rage isn't a servant....
This will only work if rage is not a servant-

thinktank vote:MafiaMann

[qwints]

I figured the mod would have checked the thread in the last 24 hours.

[qwints]

I have no idea which roles are servants.

[qwints]

Mafia, why do you refuse to claim? You've already proclaimed yourself a good target. I don't understand what you or the town gain from such a vague claim.

[qwints]

It's a partial claim. It's clearly incomplete and somewhat vague. Does that mean that if sekinj had targeted someone on night one you would then have been able to switch her target?

And gremwell, is the dispell thing something real or were you just screwing around? If mafia

was town

wouldn't that make you anti-town?

[qwints]

@qwints: what made you think Rage is a 'servant'? Or thinktank? Is changing votes the only thing you could have commanded? Or could you, say, command someone to claim or to direct their night action to a specific target, to name a few examples?

Scribe seemed like a servant role to me. When it didn't work, I decided it to try on a player who hadn't claimed to see what happened. If rage eventually follows the command, then my command to thinktank will do nothing.

I could have commanded someone to claim, but I don't know if that would have guaranteed a truthful claim or just that they say something about their role. I could not have commanded a night action, only an action during the day.

[qwints]

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that rage followed my order confirms that he is town. I think he is wrong about me, but I think he is honestly wrong. I used my one shot ability today because I thought there was a chance I would be incorrectly lynched. I used it in order to maximize our chances of lynching scum today. I used it, and I can no longer use it.


Mafia, I want to know - did you have anything to do with ThAdmiral's death? Was the scum trying to kill sekinj?

[qwints]

It sounds like you've been over-representing your power. Or maybe you're trying to downplay it now. Why haven't you done anything else since?

[qwints]

1. Scribe sounded like a servant role.
2. As I said before, I was afraid I would be lynched before I got the chance to use my one shot ability. So I used it to maximize the chance of a mafia lynch - who I feel is scummy.

Yes, I was following what you said, Rage. I thought the fact that a day or two had passed suggested that the order hadn't worked. The fact that you followed the order confirmed you as town in my book.

[qwints]

So it's just a coincidence that no one died when you didn't ensorcel and that some one died when you did?

[qwints]

@Rage
Yes, I realize you're the only player that has claimed with information about me. I've never pretended that I chose you at random. I chose you as the one that would maximize the chances of a scum lynch. With all due respect, you are simply wrong about me.

I don't think I could have commanded sekinj, although I might have been able to. Scribe was the obvious choice. Sure, you can command those lower down the chain then you, but I was obviously able to command you. That also means that you are confirmed town.

I had thought that sekinj was scum for reason I had explained earlier, but the defenses from maryitat, who I think is pretty clearly town, and you, who I now know is town, convinced me otherwise. Mafiaman's refusal to elaborate on his role given the information he has already revealed is what makes him my number one suspect.

Let me make this crystal clear, I used my power on rage b/c
1. It was most likely to work on him if he had told the truth
2. I thought he was the most wrong about me
3. This is a critical lynch and I want to maximize our chances of getting scum.

Lastly, in response to the point about drawing out the day - I don't think there's much chance of us going another day without a lynch. I'm sure that most players will vote the most likely suspect when the deadline comes and that they'll shift, as necessary, to lynch the consensus choice. In fact, I think we should all commit to lynching the plurality choice at the deadline.

[qwints]

My cards are on the table.
MafiaMann's aren't.

That's all I can say.

Thinktank,gremwell and PimHel you need to pick a side here.

@gremwell, are you saying that you did not get a letter from rage, but that you believe rage's claim anyway?

[qwints]

I think that my position is very clear and that there is nothing left for me to say. I will, however, answer any question anyone has.

[qwints]

Although I know realize that Maryita's post is directed to MafiaMann, I summed up my answer for the last few question before I did so. I hate to see such a post go to waste

Why did you use it on me?

Let me make this crystal clear, I used my power on rage b/c
1. It was most likely to work on him if he had told the truth
2. I thought he was the most wrong about me
3. This is a critical lynch and I want to maximize our chances of getting scum.

But I don't see what quintz is trying to get at saying MM has over-represented or is now downplaying?

Im a powerful pro town role why would you want me lynched?

followed by

no i i switched sekinjis spot with rage and thats all

By the way, why exactly do you think MafiaMann is scum more than anyone else?

1. Way too close mouthed at this point in the game
2. Clearly affiliated with the supernatural
3. Has not adequately explained the effect of switching people - does this mean that whoever targeted sekinj on day 1 hit rage instead?

[quote="cass']
why would her power refer specifically to 'servants'?
[/quote]

I don't know

[qwints]

As I've already posted, my knowledge says that there are only five possible night quarters - none of which involve a palace. There are two wings in the mansion, a guest quarters, a stable and the village inn.

[qwints]

My pm from the mod contained a section entitled knowledge. This is where I learned that info.

[qwints]

How directly am I allowed to say this? I don't think we're allowed to directly quote my pm, but my knowledge does tell me that those are the five night quarters people can use.

[qwints]

I don't see any basis for there being two scum groups. I think, however, that there is probably the equivalent of guards or masons.

[qwints]

Maryita, I think you're mixing mine and Cass's posts.

Cass suggested that there might be two scum groups. I said I didn't think there were two scum groups, but that there might be a group of pro-town players that was working together.

[qwints]

I think my position about the letters is pretty clear, Rage.

I have received no letters in game. It seems reasonable that my character was receiving letters before the game began (that is before night 0) based on my flavor text. I think a fair reading of my earlier posts will show that this is a consistently held position.

As for my powers, it's pretty clear that our powers for the game are unusual. They are what they are. My knowledge about the messenger comes from my flavor text.

I think you have summed up my position accurately, but I don't think that your implications make a lot of sense.

All I can say it that I've been a lot more open than MafiaMann has.

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(4) MafiaMann - qwints. Rage, Cass, thinktank
(3) qwints - Mariyta, MafiaMann, sekinj

Not voting:

Gremwell, PimHel

Deadline:

Sunday 28 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[qwints]

-has not received any anonymous letters
-states that flavour text may have been given to him by letter [before the game]


-has not received any letters at all
-thinks he may have received a letter [before the game], which he says would explain his flavour text


-before the game, it is possible that he has received letters
-during the game, he has received no letters


-confirms he hasn't received any letters at all
-confirms he might have received letters [before the game]

brackets are my addition

This is an accurate summary of the four quotes of mine you have addressed. I don't think they are as silly or inconsistent as you have portrayed.

My flavor text says that I have learned that the prince is sending someone to the manor. It makes sense that my backstory contains me getting a letter (before night 0). Thus another player's flavor text could say that they had noticed me receiving letters. That said, I have received no letters (that is pms) since the game began.

[qwints]

The only pm I received pre-game was my role pm.

[qwints]

FOS: gremwell and PimHel

You needed to take a side in this one. Refusing to participate at this point is scummy.

[qwints]

Was Maryita's vote the hammer?

[qwints]

We need to make sure we get a lynch. There's only an hour til the deadline and something weird might be going on, so let's get votes from PimHel and gremwell just in case.

[qwints]

We already know that rage is town. TheSweatpantsNinja is an unknown factor since his predecessors were so inactive.

That leaves sekinj, thinktank, cass and maryita. There's probably two or three scum in the bunch. Thus we are almost certain to hit scum today. Here are my thought:

sekinj - I was suspicious of her yesterday, but rage me she was town. I find her all out attack on Mariyta strange. Mariyta's hammer was clearly designed to prevent a no-lynch.

Maritya - interesting claim. i don't think there's any objective evidence for the claim, but I don't see a strong reason to disbelieve it/

thinktank- LURKER. Way, way too quiet.

Cass- A little too passive for my taste. Is is this the emissary?

I'm not sure enough to vote yet. I am curious to know is sekinj has anything to tell us at this point.

[qwints]

All I can say is that mafiamann appeared the scummiest yesterday. He was just way too closemouthed for the situation. Not to mention the fact that he got his location wrong.

[qwints]

Here's my claim, for convenience.

I am the Baroness. My full name is Lady Camille Vanderton. My power is an ability to move people between quarters at night and a one shot command ability for servants. I know that a messenger has come from the Prince to try to cleanse the area of a supernatural. (This was the information that came from a letter.) My predecessor never moved anyone.)

If I wasn't roleblocked last night, cass and sekinj can confirm that I moved them to the stables. My one shot ability has been used.

I am in favor of the mass roleclaim and add that sekinj needs to reveal his information once all the information is out. Furthermore, everyone needs to remember that we may be at lynch or lose. Thus, votes need to be used carefully lest scum pile on. (Though that might be a bit hard logistically.

[qwints]

I think we can trust Cass if there's no counter-claim. It seems clear that others have verified that there is an emissary. Cass's late arrival is consistent with my flavor text.

[qwints]

Is it just sweatpants and thinktank who haven't claimed?

Claim, please, and lets here what sekinj has to say.

[qwints]

I have no special win or lose conditions.

[qwints]

Are you claiming cop-like abilities Cass? What could possibly be the point of not revealing how you are certain at this point? I think you're just too scared to try and make something up at this point. Especially since Gremwell's nickname was sleuth.

Here's why everyone thinks you are suspicious:
1) You arrived the day after a no-lynch and we were promised dire consequences after a no-lynch.
2) Sir Lothar

Guile?

That's a suspicious last name if I ever heard one.
3) You cast suspicion on Maryita, Thinktank, Gremwell, MafiaMann, me and Sekinj yesterday. That looks a lot like scum trying to cover all their bases.
4) After a roleclaim, you say that you "know for a fact" that I am scum without explaining why.
5) You discourage a mass claim (and maybe are going for a fast lynch?) when only two players are left to claim. Are you trying to protect thinktank after you and others cast suspicion on him yesterday?

Even if you all are convinced I am scum, it is absolutely imperative that we get a roleclaim from thinktank and sweatpantsninja. That maximizes town's chances of using sekinj's information successfully.

Here's my current scum list
1) Cass - for reasons mentioned earlier
2) thinktank - for not being helpful and yesterday's lynch attempt
3) Mariyta - much less, but her strident attempts to distance herself from the hammer yesterday is a little scummy. (Though the hammer itself does make sense)
4) sweatpantsninja - this is my 0 point. Simply an unknown quantity.
5) sekinj - pretty sure she's town based on rage's defense of her
6) rage - I'm certain he's town b/c he followed my command yesterday
7) myself - I know I'm town, obviously

[qwints]

Also, why wait to claim certainty until after others have expressed skepticism? Cass is pretty much guaranteed to live through the night if Mariyta is telling the truth. Only once people (even though who seem convinced I am scum) didn't believe Cass right away did Cass claim that he "knew for a fact."

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Cass is trying to prevent thinktank and sweatpantsninja from having to roleclaim. I doubt this is a town move at this point in the game.

[qwints]

Am I correct that it's 4-2 with 1 abstaining in favor of thinktank and sweatpantsninja claiming.

I think that : rage, maryita, sekinj and I favor a role claim
Cass and sweatpantsninja oppose one.
Thinktank hasn't commented.

[qwints]

Well, it looks like everyone is pretty much convinced that I'm scum. All I can say is that I've been completely open and have done my best to be helpful.

With Cass's claim, it's clear that either Cass or I are scum. If there are three scum then today is lynch or lose. Thus we can't afford to make a mistake. It will probably be too late to lynch Cass once I come up town. So I want everyone to look back at yesterday and see Cass's strange behavior that I set forth earlier. Remember that he came the day after a no-lynch.

[qwints]

Vote: Sweat

His claim is a lie. He is really either an Alchemist or a Bard.

The biggest tip off he gave was his night quarter. The Baron's Quarters is not a legit area. My knowledge says there are 5 night quarters, and I can personally verify what those 5 are. 4 of them are confirmed in the death information in Johoohno's Post 0. and then I was moved to the stables last night, which confirm the 5th. The Baron's Quarters do not exist, which lead me to believe as Rage mentioned ealier that the mod is probably the Baron.

I'm still suspicious of quintz, but sweat has given himself away.

We lynched MafiaMann because he got his night quarters wrong. I don't think that's as strong a tell as you make it out to be.But sweatpantsninja feels really scummy to me. So

vote sweatpantsninja

After he flips scum, we should either lynch cass or thinktank. I think those are probably the scum based on their actions.

[qwints]

I know cass is scum. Unfortunately a number of you seem to have lose conditions linked to his death. That certainly doesn't prove he's pro-town, but makes his lynch unlikely.

Sweatpantsninja's posts just don't add up. So my vote stays where it is.

As for my "having given up," I don't have much to add at this point to what I've already said. My cards are on the table, Cass is refusing to fully explain. I believe that Cass and thinktank need to explain their roles more. We're at lynch and lose, therefore it makes no sense to play your cards next to your chest.

[qwints]

1. I wouldn't count on traditional mechanics in a game like this.

2. MafiaMann is being vague about how his role works. He seems to be saying that it's sufficient to know that it's like a cop. But there might be sanity or other issues he hasn't explained.

3. Well, aren't we at lynch or lose? 2 scum with 12 initial players seems unlikely.

[qwints]

Obviously by MafiaMann, I meant Cass.

Hmm, perhaps the reason I am going after Cass is because he's lied about finding me guilty? All I can say is that I know I'm town and that means Cass is lying. Remember that Cass can right after a no lynch, and a scum causing town players to lose if they are lynched would be a dire consequence.

[qwints]

I disagree with stopping the game at this point. I thought the stealing of a vote only lasted one day and today isn't lynch or lose.

[qwints]

I'll let the mod fully explain the roles, but I felt like both sides had some super-powerful roles. It was my understanding that stealing votes wasn't guaranteed (which I thought was why no vote was stolen on day 3.) Given that situation, there might have been enough votes for a lynch on day 5.

I'm interested to see what the dire consequences from the no-lynches were. Surely it wasn't 2 no-lynches = a loss.

[qwints]

To be fair, I thought we had a forced win when I started attacking sekinj.

[qwints]

Questions for the mod:
1) How was there no kill on night 2 if a no lynch meant the kills always go through?
2) Did PimHel steal Mariyta's vote on day 3?
3) How did TSN fail to steal a vote on day 4?
4) What was up with day 5? Either it's end-gamed or it's not...

Comments - allowing me to have the one shot command ability along with a scum-mate with a vote steal was way too powerful. We needed one night kill and one mislynch to take control of the voting completely. Town could have been end-gamed on day 2.

I'd be interested to hear people's thought about another use of the one-shot command and would love to see a list of night actions.

All I did was move people around on n3.

[qwints]

The game was closer than it should have been b/c raverblood flaked before they sent in their night actions. TSN also apparently misunderstood their power by failing to try and steal a vote.
These problems made thinktank and I believe the town was a lot more powerful than it was.

@Rage, we never believed there was another scum group.