FFVII Mafia: Over

[wolframnhart]

OOGEY BOOGEY

vote: MrBuddyLee

for not reading rules

[wolframnhart]

Lol you kloud, you have the evil avatar for this theme

[wolframnhart]

Yeh, well unfortunatley I do not have mod confirmed info that he is scum, so I can't be certain.

You clearly don't plan to change, so just carry on voting for the mislynch.

Have fun.

Giving up a little too quickly here aren't we? ilord was just asking you some questions and you have already gotten a lil huffy over it.

[wolframnhart]

Oh yeh, that's why I stopped playing games with Arlmx.

I shall merely attepmt to ignore him.

For everyone else, what he says is a complete lie. Don't listen to him. Anyway, go ahead and lynch me.

I'm quite positive armlx is scum.

Lynch him tomorrow.

Thats nice that you are quite positive armlx is scum, but you have not made anyone else positive of that, in fact from the way your posts seem (especially this one, it seems childish and bias)

unvote, vote: Xtoxm

[wolframnhart]

When did you use this day vig ability? Was there certain restrictions on when you could? Also why did you choose armlx right away to investigate out of everyone here?

[wolframnhart]

ok.. you rolled a die. Why armlx though?
And i am guessing if you rolled a die you are cat sith?

[wolframnhart]

gah i am just so confused about this apparent role of yours.
You said VT, then just T, now day cop, with a die that apparently has peoples names on it and it tells you if they are guilty or not?

My head hurts

[wolframnhart]

Xtoxm, I'm going to stop trying to explain how obvious it is that you are lying.

Please, just admit that you're scum and make it easy on all of us so that we don't have to suffer through this nonesense.

Or, if you drop your defeatist attitude, give explain your actions and give us a rolename.

I'm a German Philosopher.

*eye roll*

[wolframnhart]

i can go with german philosher in his role, based on that info. However, i can't see cop role for Xtoxm. Rolls a die? just

happens

to find "scum" out of 26 players? And it happens to be he one person Xtoxm doesn't wanna play with?

[wolframnhart]

So you go with the one person that MBP provided for you to be the cop role.

FoS MBP

[wolframnhart]

unvoye Xtoxm

alright i may not have liked you play, and the way you kept avoiding role question from ilord, and your general attitude, but heres the thing:
a)if we keep xtoxm around, and actually lynch armlx, and he turns up NOT a shinra opeative, then xtoxm would be killed right off next day.
b)if we lynch xtoxm now, and he turns up cop as he said, i would hope everyone would lynch armlx, being as xtoxm would have been telling the truth, but we would be left without a cops investigation skills.

[wolframnhart]

ebwop

unvote xtoxm

[wolframnhart]

unvoye Xtoxm

alright i may not have liked you play, and the way you kept avoiding role question from ilord, and your general attitude, but heres the thing:
a)if we keep xtoxm around, and actually lynch armlx, and he turns up NOT a shinra opeative, then xtoxm would be killed right off next day.
b)if we lynch xtoxm now, and he turns up cop as he said, i would hope everyone would lynch armlx, being as xtoxm would have been telling the truth, but we would be left without a cops investigation skills.

Wouldn't this require that we, at some point, kill armlx? So when do we do that? There's only two ways to confirm the claim/report, and that is to either kill Xtoxm, or kill armlx.

Also, I have to

Unvote

, because it's logical, for the moment.

Very true GW, we would have to lynch either Armlx or Xtoxm, and since i believe that if we lynch Xtoxm and do loose a day cop role, it would seriously hurt us on day one. If we lynch the apparent scum role, or Shinra Operative, as Xtoxm claims Armlx is, then we loose a person true, but if he is townie we know Xtoxm was lying and would be the immediate lynch day 2, or Xtoxm was telling the truth and we have kept a good role for the next day (if he survived the nigh now that he has claimed cop).

And don't thank me yet Xtoxm, if Armlx does end up being townie, i will be the first vote on you day two.

Vote Armlx

[wolframnhart]

But if we lynch Xtoxm first, and he does turn out cop, we loose a useful role for town.
I see that as the worst scenario.
Take emotion or personal like/dislike out of it, look at it from what would be best for town. Xtoxm's possible cop role would be best imho.

[wolframnhart]

was about to say he could survive if there are protective roles, but i was beat to it.
I understand iLord where you are coming from, as i said i didn't/don't like xtoxms attitude before all this, but i see it as being better for the town to see if his scum claim against armlx is correct, and hopefully if it is right, someone will protect Xtoxm so he can give us another result.

[wolframnhart]

it would be nice to see some of the less active players give some input as well right now.

[wolframnhart]

if that happens FL, then xtoxm would still be helping us narrow down the suspect list everyday that he remains alive. first mistake would be death for him.

[wolframnhart]

In a way. Except that he'd just have a bunch of townie visions after he's been "proven" with armix. We wouldn't go around lynching Xtox's views if we believed him saying they were human, right?

True. he could have a ton of "townie" visions, some of them being his scum partners (going off the scenario that he is bussing one(?) of his partners early on. But a)Would he really buss early on just to have a safe claim the entire thread? b)Would you be willing to loose a possible cop role early on? c)Eventually he would be night killed (unless protected every night) or would slip up on his claims, and we would catch him (if this happened i would pray its early on, again going under the assumption he might be scum false claiming).

I believe the lesser of the evils is to go with his investigation atm. If armlx turns scum, Xtoxm was right all along. If Xtoxm ends up being scum at the end of the game (assuming he lives that long) then i would give him a bow for bussing his partner so early in the game to win. If we lynched Xtoxm and lost a cop role, i for one would feel like crap for it. I would much rather keep Xtoxm around for one more day and go with his investigation for day one. it is the best info we have gotten so far from an apparent power role.

[wolframnhart]

I agree that I have seen ABR lie about his role, even as a townie, but only in one game that I replaced into, and since it is still ongoing I cannot link it right now. I can believe ABR is Cid, but if he has an airship i would almost think he is a Bus Driver role, not someone who builds a powerful scope that can see energy levels and is therefore a cop role.

[wolframnhart]

in the aftermath of the airship battles where the Sierra is severely damaged, cid uses his knowledge of high-tier technology to build a spec scope that can detect abnormal levels of mako energy (jenova cells?) in their bloodstream. he can only use this once a day.

I am still going to go with the armlx vote. This might come back to bite me in the ass later on if Xtoxm really does turn scum, but ABR's post bothers me. He counter claims just at the right time, and against a player that admittingly seems scummy, so most people that were staring to go with Xtoxm immediatly unvote and join the wagon again. With ABR's post, it seems so much like what a mod might send him in a PM, i would think that he would have been mod killed had it been a real claim.

That with the fact that i have seen ABR lie about his role as a townie before (again the game i cannot link right now as it is still on going) i just find it way too hard to believe him.

[wolframnhart]

who is leader?

[wolframnhart]

You wanna know why? Fine. FINE.

BECAUSE IM A DAYCOP. COUNTER-CLAIM, THERE YA GO. IM CID HIGHWIND.

I haven't used my ability yet..

Now..who's claim is more believable?? Fucking Cid who appears in every FF7 game, or some german philosopher???

That seems pretty smart ass to me.

[wolframnhart]

This is assuming that ABR would not lie as town.

This is a bad assumption.

MBL, are you suggesting a scum day cop?

With ABR's post, it seems so much like what a mod might send him in a PM, i would think that he would have been mod killed had it been a real claim.

This is the worst reason to disbelieve a claim ever given the fact the claim was like 2 lines long. I've seen this be valid before, but not here.

I am not trying to say it is lock solid, just that it is my belief.

Why is it valid somewhere else and not here?

[wolframnhart]

The post seems pretty elaborate to me. Granted I haven't played an Elias game before this, so i don't know how else he writes a role PM except for mine, but it seems elaborate enough to me.

[wolframnhart]

Sorry for not posting much these last few days, just been real busy. Ill start posting more now.

Think you have posted more then a few players lol

[wolframnhart]

Eh, since the Xtomx debate ended, there isn't really that much to talk about.

It's not going to end until either Xtoxm or armlx is lynched, which is the only logical way for this day to play out. You're not voting for either right now; why not?

Vote: iamusername

So... you are voting iamsurename for..what? Saying he logical way this day will end is in an armlx or xtoxm lynch? Right now i agree with iamusername.

[wolframnhart]

Even if it comes back to bite me in the ass later, i just can't bring myself to believe ABR after seeing him lie about his role as a townie before.

[wolframnhart]

It doesn't affect my views at all. I am willing to go along with the claimed cop (the one i can believe more) with his guilty investigation. If it turns out Xtoxm lied, then he would be lynched auto next day. While it is true i haven't seen anything truely scummy from Armlx, that doesn't mean he is scum. I have two running games that I would love to link and talk about, but since they are active I can't, and I don't know if giving a summary on what is important about them that affects my views is against the rules I will just leave it be.

[wolframnhart]

I haven't no. I found his behavior very bad (even made a comment on that twice now i think) for a cop, but not scummy. Maybe I am not looking at him correctly but for now I am treating him as a townie until proven otherwise.

Even though I think that you might have lied about your role ABR, i am treating you as townie as well until proven otherwise.

[wolframnhart]

Right, it isn't ABR, i should have made it more clear, but since I have been saying I can't bring myself to believe ABR, i am going with Xtoxm.

[wolframnhart]

And if Xtoxm turns town, with the char he claimed to be, what happens then? Armlx ge lynched day 2?

Also is Xtoxm turns scum, again then what? We really haven't discussed much else.

[wolframnhart]

They were being thrown yes, but would they truely be damning enough for a real discussion? As it is a few players are very inactive for such a large game. I would hope that there would be a lil more discussion on day 1 before people start hammering. ALso i never really liked it when a person asks if everyone is ok with a hammer, usually means the next day if someone turns town they can use the "You said i could" defense.

[wolframnhart]

Hmm.... well, we got a possible cop saying that Xtomx is a scum, and not a jester. Should I go ahead and hammer him?

Sounds like he is asking to me

[wolframnhart]

With two mods you would think we would have the day wrapped by now

[wolframnhart]

LoL then comes the mod kill.. or PR for you

[wolframnhart]

LoL i know it wouldn't happen, but what if the mod had a bad RL day, got bitched at by the boss, dinner was cold, car broke down, then he comes and sees a prod.. by a player?????? *BAM* Death to you!!! *BAM* LoL

[wolframnhart]

vote: Albert B. Rampage

iamusername beat me to it, i saw that too after Xtoxm's death.

[wolframnhart]

I wouldn't believe any claim he gave anyways, just like i didn't believe his original claim. ABR there was no reason for you to do that, and the fact that you seem proud that you did it and got a townie lynched is just dumb. If you do turn scum then I will look at Armlx tomorrow because maybe, just maybe, Xtoxm was right and just guessed on who really was scum and you decided to save your partner (who might not have been in trouble anyways since people had a hard time believing Xtoxm anyways) by counter claiming. This is probably the least likely of scenarios but i will definitely look at it if you turn scum.

If you don't turn scum, then you are just plain stupid and ruined Day one and Day two (assuming you turn town with your lynch).

BTW, that aries in the picture on the vote count...ugly as sin.

[wolframnhart]

unvote

I still don't like the way you went about your claim ABR, lying is anti-town in my view and I would normally string you up for it, but, with three people dying last night and if we are wrong about you then loosing a fourth townie and then three more people getting killed off, it is better to be more certain of someone, if we keep up the mislynch's this will be a short game.

[wolframnhart]

there are 22 people alive here folks, lets get a few of the non-posters to chime in here.

[wolframnhart]

I don't mind if they aren't voting, I would just like to see them chime in with something, a thought, a disagreement, a person they believe to be more scummy etc.

[wolframnhart]

mmmm point taken.

[wolframnhart]

setup spec doesnt always help imo, but others might disagree.
Also, barret was killed at night, sooo that takes away one of your possible shooters-mafia.

[wolframnhart]

I think you are thinking of someone else (unless i am completely wrong here and am thinking of someone else myself)

Barret, the token black guy on the team, had the machine gun for an arm, had hired cloud to help him destroy the mako machine things. Not Shinra, was against Shinra he was.

[wolframnhart]

Just looking at the flavor again.

iLord was obviously killed by Sephiroth during N1; and the massive bullet hole narrows it right down to who done the shooting too [game fans just have to think about that one, really. Needless to say it all reeks of Vendetta].

That leaves two ordinary shootings on the townies and I'd say that as good as confirms we've got more than one Shinra Hitman. On a quick reread I've got a few suspicions but nothing that really sits as comfortably as taking out ABR for his insanely anti-town behavior in D1.

Also, Armlx I'd say that the N1 deaths and the lynch have given us a pretty good idea that this game is running strictly on the same good/evil tracks as the game.

Reno was scum.

Bug, Barret and Dio were Town, pretty much as you were really.

I wouldn't rule out a few surprises down the line but I severely doubt any of the major good or evil roles would be reversed.

I'm not sure i agree with this entire post. Sepiroth would make the most sense o kill someone with a sword, but for it to be obviously the case i dunno, same with the bullet holes, still could be anyone. As far as it being a shinra hitman that killed the townies, again, not sure if that is the case. It could have been a non-shinra vig.

[wolframnhart]

I see more of a scum vibe from Zac. He never explained the iamusername vote, i can be taken as an OMGUS, and the vote on Xtoxm was just a one liner explanation. I'll

FoS Zac

right now.

Zakeri did get off the ABR wagon today, a few of us did, but is the flip flop enough for a vote?

[wolframnhart]

Oi I forgot Emp was in the game

[wolframnhart]

For what?

[wolframnhart]

And we needed to know this because...?

[wolframnhart]

nevermind, i should have learned from Small Town that conversations with you go no where.

[wolframnhart]

So if i have followed this correctly Cavebear, do you find it odd that ABR was not killed a night after claiming a major character and powerrole?

[wolframnhart]

So if i have followed this correctly Cavebear, do you find it odd that ABR was not killed a night after claiming a major character and powerrole?

I don't really have an opinion either way about that.

I'm of the opinion that it's mostly pointless to speculate about why someone DID NOT die, especially early in the game. (Speculating about why someone DID die is slightly more useful and interesting, but still not something I often do.) There's all sorts of possible reasons why he'd still be alive, many of them wifom:y.

Fair enough, was just seeing if I was following your line of thinking.

[wolframnhart]

Vote: Armlx

Specifically at post 603 where it seems to me that he's pushing for the ABR lynch (and if I'm wrong, please tell me.)

I don't really get how ABR can think this, but he's claimed a pro-town power role under the alias of a semi-major and recurrent character (according to wiki), and since no one's countered, I'm willing to believe his claim for now.

His case against Yosarian seems legitamate as well, though I'm not sure I'm willing to go with ABR on that ~

This doesn't really make sense to me...

Armlx isn't pushing for an ABR lynch, in fact he has been very anti-ABR lynch. He only said that people should be voting, nothing at all in 603 ha suggests they should be voting for ABR.

[wolframnhart]

Not to mention, Jebus, that Albert has already admitted that the power role claim was a complete lie...

Which one, the day-cop one or the Cid one?

being as it said "Power role" and the fact that if you read the posts you would see ABR admitted the day-cop was a lie, but the Cid role was not.

I still think your vote for Armlx is way too weak and not very valid at all.

FoS Jebus

[wolframnhart]

Lynching all liars sounds nice at first, but not when you recall that people, generally speaking, are incompetent morons. I'm not talking about anyone in particular now (well, not anyone in this thread at least, but google Darwin Awards) but humans in general can do really stupid things. We make mistakes, we misremember, we tell white lies for whatever reasons, we post when we really should get some sleep... It all adds up. My point, of course, being that everybody lies, advertently or inadvertently. Town as well as scum. That's why LAL is a bad policy. My point being, of course, that I'm not prepared to vote/lynch ABR (I would consider a utility lynch, but I hate utility lynches and won't do that until it's clear that it's either that or a no lynch; I'm hoping it won't come to that).

The point that is stuck in my mind is this:
ABR plays this way all the time. How often does it get him killed for it? And with that, at what point will it just become "he does it all the time, so there is no reason to lynch him over it" which gives him a free pass to do whatever he wants as either town or scum. This may be the game where he is trying this strategy in order to get by as scum, knowing people will not vote him for this meta, and it gives him a cover to continue.

While I emotionally like the idea of lynching someone to teach him a lesson, it sadly isn't a good plan if the goal is to win this game. Long term, I've already learned to not trust ABR in these situations - the damage is already done. Besides, us lynching him probably won't do much good, he has to figure out why it's a bad idea himself.
As long as ABR refuses to stop doing this, it really does apply as a town tell, and it makes more sense to overlook the fake cop claim thing. Not saying we can't lynch him, but if he's going to get lynched, let it be for doing something else.

Yeah, OK, I guess my ABR vote is more "If he's scum and gets away with this, I will be SO MAD" than actually thinking he is definite scum. And I guess that's not the best play to make.

Unvote

.

But seriously, if he is scum and gets away with this, I will be SO MAD.

---

I've gone back and reread D1 with the knowledge of iLord's alignment to see if I could pick up a connection with anyone, but I got nothing. Xtoxm/armlx/ABR eclipsed everything else.

Gonna

Vote: CallMeLiam

.

- He made a serious attempt to get someone besides Xtoxm or armlx lynched, thus delaying the resolution of that issue for another day. Up until that was resolved, everyone else would pretty much get a free ride.

- His statement of wanting to "test the cop who claims first" makes absolutely no sense. There is no reason why the order that Xtoxm and ABR claimed in should have made a difference. If he'd said he didn't believe ABR's claim, that would be different, but he never gave any indication that he didn't believe the claim, just that he wanted to ignore it until Xtoxm's claim was tested.

This game could do with some picking up of pace to draw out some more lurkers, and this is a decent case. Also don't forget the part in his last post where CallMeLiam wanted ABR to re-claim if he's got a power role.

Vote: CallMeLiam

QFT
and i do agree the case is a good one against Liam

vote Liam

[wolframnhart]

Hi all. I'm replacing Zac apparently. Can anyone please repost any outstanding comments/questions about him and I will attempt to answer them the best I can.

Also, a summary of what has happened so far would be nice.

TBH he'd earned my vote by being the only person to have crossed Forbiddanlight before FL turned up riddled with holes. It was low key enough to go under the radar but significant enough to stick in my mind.

May I inquire as to the page number. I have no intention of wasting my time reading more than 10 pages, so...

Why would it be a waste to read over the game? If you don't plan on reading the game, and just ask people to summarize and give you some topic discussion about the person you replaced, that just seems to mean you are too lazy to come to your own conclusions and just want to go off others opinions of the game/players so far.

[wolframnhart]

No need to prod me, i am here.

[wolframnhart]

If xtoxm really is a cop, and he really got a guilty armlx, he's insane at best. In which case, he would still be our best lynch.

Taking a look back at the quote a couple people believe is the damning evidence on Tony it does seem like a major slip up. Why would Tony believe xtoxm to be insane at best if he got a guilty on Armlx? That doesn't add up to me.

Tony, if you haven't already explained why you said this, I would like an explanation. Why would xtoxm have to have been insane to get a guilty result on Armlx?

[wolframnhart]

If Tony is lynched and flips scum[...]

I won't flip scum, and I will never be lynched

What makes you so sure of that? And please answer my question in post 796

[wolframnhart]

Pro-town players aren't supposed to lie. Obscuring of information only helps the most informed group (the mafia), and masks the people who have to lie anyways (also the mafia).

So in your words ABR is not pro-town and could be masking his role as a mafia since he has to lie?

[wolframnhart]

With 6 days to the deadline do the non voters (4 of you i believe there are and i am too lazy to look at who it is) feel they have any read on someone to place their vote at? I would hate to see the 6 days drag out with little to no discussion.

[wolframnhart]

I agree with Cephir about jebus and cavebear but I also think we need to hear from callmeliam again. He has been very quiet being so close to a lynch, i believe he is hoping some people will forget him or ABR might incriminate himself to the point where everyone votes him, because he is the mos vocal defending himself and come deadline time that might be where most people change their vote to, the loudest (forgive the term) player.

[wolframnhart]

Edit: Whoops, I didn't see Kloud's name up there. Guess I was right about that.

Vote: MBL

I'll take a look through the topic again, and see if anything sticks out.

why exactly the vote there Zakeri if you are going to be looking to see if anything sticks out?

[wolframnhart]

vote Lowell

He never really explained why he didn't like carn carn's post 1201. He has only posted twice, once to say he is here, the other to vote without completely reading the game. His predecessor DynamoXI if you look back seems to have stayed under the radar the entire time. he did build a case against Xtoxm, later unvoted him and the next day voted ABR and stayed there with a sentence or two every now and then, in other words he really hadn't tried to help scum hunt, just stayed out of everyone's view while the wagon's each day were rallied on.

[wolframnhart]

Who was that grimmy? I was in that game with you and unless i am reading the roles wrong i wasn't aware of that power.

[wolframnhart]

And how did you come to that conclusion Riceballtail?

[wolframnhart]

I'm still waiting on Lowells:

Hi all. I'm replacing someone or another. Will read and astound you all with my prescience.

He then posts:

I'm nowhere near caught up, but I want my vote in the action, starting bandwagons, wreaking havoc. For now, I don't like 1201. vote carncarn.

I've never played FFVII. Is it gauche to ask who the claimed character is?

And after I question him and vote him he immediately:

@wolfram- the reason I didn't like Carn's post was that he said he wanted to wait to hear what others thought of the claim before acting on it. Often this indicates scum trying to figure out whether it's "safe" to attack a claimed player. Given that he's already claimed, however, I'll retract. unvote, vote wolfram.

and even admits it's

^^^^ OMGUS

He might try and say it was a joke vote or whatever, but the thing is he hasn't helped in any other way and to place a OMGUS vote, joke or not, at this point and time in the game is seriously stupid.

[wolframnhart]

mod can we prod Lowell?

seriously i am still waiting to be blown away by his read through and thoughts

[wolframnhart]

unvote, vote zakeri

. Let's get our bandwagon on.

So you are voting for no other reason then to get a bandwagon going, when you still haven't done the read through and give us your thoughts on the game so far? Just hoping to glide on by this day i see.

[wolframnhart]

And you aren't a hider Lowell? And opportunistic at that with your voting on the current wagon?

[wolframnhart]

Do we need some prodding here? Game kinda stalled with a few players not posting here.

[wolframnhart]

mod can we get an official votecount?