Mini 638 - Batman Mafia - Prozacmod 1 - Over

[Inspector Godot]

Ok, expect my thoughts after the reread to be posted sometime within the next 24 hours.

[Porochaz]

Votecount sponsered by Hugo Strange

Danger - 2 - Zoneace, Wolframnhart

Zoneace - 1 - Danger

[ZONEACE]

KE and SL need to contribute to the game NOW.

IF you do not contribute i will make sure you die or are replaced. and I'm not talking about a "oh i'm gonna re read post" I"m talking about a useful contribution to the game.

WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS? seriously. we're likely at LYLO and you couldn't give a fuck it seems.


WHY IS THAT? is it because you stand to gain from our being at LYLO cause you're SCUM?

[KingEnigma]

Yeah wow, next time I see a game that zoneace is in, i think i'll pass. Geez dude calm down.

Ive given my thoughts in a well thought out post on the last day, and i'm sticking with my guns that godot is scum.

What more do you need, gesides a chill pill (yeah I went there)?

[KingEnigma]

also i'm more of a one proglem at a time type of person, so, yes I understand that there are more scum that one, gut this is the one I found, once this proglem is dealt with, I will move on.

[ZONEACE]

....................


thats it???? thats ALL WE GET???

unvote vote KE

i see we have a scum trying to stay out of the limelight and not get involved in the hopes that the town shoot themselves in the foot.


well, no more.


NOW YOU DIE.

[ZONEACE]

So yeah, looking at his posts in isolation, KE has added almost nothing to game, making a total of 14 posts over 18 pages.


I'm very confident in my vote


now, why aren't the rest of you killing him yet?

[kloud1516]

Sorry everyone, here are my thoughts:

First off, the NK and the results of the pwnz lynch completely befuddled me. I was near certain that pwnz was scum by the way he was responding to the questions and comments directed at him. Wow. And secondly, I can't make heads or tails (no pun intended) of Grimmy's death, for I could really find anything within the thread that would possibly explain the choice with any sort of substantial evidence.

I did come across these posts contributed by Grimmy:

ABR was acting very anti-town, and saying I told you so after the fact does not help anything.

fos: Charter and Singing Librarian

Like I stated before, Im still sticking with my heroes=scum theory, as I was before ABR set off everyones scumdars. Charter, more so because of his "you are all stoopid" remakrs towards everyone, AFTER the lynch had occured. Distancing yourself from a townie lynch that would only be obvious to scum.

S.L.- Only because he claimed he was a hero, but Im not going to vote for him unless either everyone else agrees to test the hero=scum theory, he provided evidence that he is town. To his credit, he claimed in theface of knowing I would liekly vote for him knowing he was a hero. That is either a balls the wall scum move, or a townie move. hence the hold on the vote.

Right now, Charter is scummier than S.I. right now. i want to hear more from Charter before voting though.

Grimmy
everything makes perfect sense AFTER the fact

and this

Which is why I said that kevethcing about it AFTER THE FACT is useless, yet you tried to position yourself as someone who spoke out against it BEFORE it occured.

Also, your reason for voting Godot, IMHO, is fuled by stupd reasoning. While there are some valid reasons to vote for him, your initial vote for him was because he was stating the obvious.

Vote: Charter

Now on the other side of the coin

Godot, you have been making "blanket" observations to try to fly under the radar. There are more reasons to vote for you, but right now, Charter sticks out more as the scummiest. More on you later. Right now, Im sticking with the Charter vote.

grimmy
tails you lose.

In which Grimmy continues to address his suspicions of Godot and Charter/danger. I can't make an argument based off of this alone, as I would much prefer to stay away from WIFOM given my current state of confusion, but there may be something of value in response to Grimmy's repeated suspicions and vote that could prove helpful for actually hitting scum today.

As of right now, my main suspect is Charter/Danger. I still do not like how Charter acted throughout his time within the game, especially Day 2. He continued to be abrasive in short about the ABR mislynch, and seemed to not want to let it go even after everyone (I think everyone) that placed a vote on ABR explained themselves several times.

Ok, everyone that voted for ABR, justify it now. You can't have actual reasons so I want to hear your BS. This kitty is mad.

What part of if you weren't an idiot you wouldn't have wanted him lynched don't you understand. As bus driver, attracting a vig kill makes PERFECT SENSE. Nothing he did yesterday was anti-town if you have a brain and can think.

LAL is possibly the dumbest policy I've ever seen in a mafia game.

My feline feelings are saddened because you can't get your role that you were on the outside.

Anyhow, Godot is still scum.

vote Godot

Not only is Charter's short-fuse sending off sparks via his posts, but he is also continuing to drop ad homs all over the place. This doesn't serve any purpose except getting others angry as well, and I find his persistence for incorporating ad homs into his posts to suspicious.

unvote; vote: ABR

Your vig, then your vanilla, now your not vanilla. I can't trust you as far as I can throw you, and seeing how Scarecrow isn't the strongest villain that wasn't very far to begin with. You have been caught in several lies, and stirring up all of this confusion with your quick changing in position isn't helping the town. My diagnosis: poison ivy is just an irritable weed that needs to be exterminated before it can take root and fester.

IMO, this is substantial reasoning for voting for him. ABR was leading the town around in circles, claiming vig, then taking back the claim and promising he was vanilla, then withdrawing this claim as well. His antics were unhelpful and distracting, and this is why he was lynched. There was no need for him to lie about his character or his role, and him doing so several times was the most suspicious thing in the game at the time to me.

What part of if you weren't an idiot you wouldn't have wanted him lynched don't you understand.

As bus driver, attracting a vig kill makes PERFECT SENSE. Nothing he did yesterday was anti-town if you have a brain and can think.

LAL is possibly the dumbest policy I've ever seen in a mafia game.

My feline feelings are saddened because you can't get your role that you were on the outside.

Anyhow, Godot is still scum.

vote Godot

1) It would be one thing for him to act suspicious in order to attract a vig, but the ABR's chain of claiming and confessing he had lied WAS anti town. It was distracting and was providing no assistance to scum hunting at all.

2) None of us could have known he was bus driver, and of course his actions are going to make sense

AFTER

his role was revealed, so you condemning all that voted for him isn't going to get us anywhere (and neither are the ad homs). I can't speak for the others on the bandwagon, but I made the decision that I thought was the most logical with the content we all had been provided with, and that was to vote for the most suspicious player. The method might make sense to you, but it made more sense to me to lynch him, as it was only hindering the town.

FoS : charter

As I and others have already said, that whole situation provided nothing to game progression save keeping everyone in a state of frustration and pointless squabbling. I agree that this appears to be an attempt made by Charter to make himself look more pro-town, but, in doing so, was called out by a good number of players within the game. He then responded with the same abrasive tone, and cherrypicked arguments.

This game is stalling horribly. Question for everyone not voting, what are you waiting for? (I'm not telling you vote)

After several posts in which charter argues that ABR was singled out for aspects of anti-town play that applied to more than just ABR and after this argument was refuted by several people, the post above is what Charter provides. I see this as a deflection of any further comments. Charter sees that others are beginning to find him suspicious, and he decides to alter his course of action in order to avoid more spotlight.

He then singles in on Godot once more and continues with his tunnel vision perspective that he had Day 1, and continues it throughout the remainder of his time in the game.

FoS: Danger

For reasons against the person you replaced stated above

FoS: KE

also i'm more of a one proglem at a time type of person, so, yes I understand that there are more scum that one, gut this is the one I found, once this proglem is dealt with, I will move on.

Even if you are a one problem kind of guy, waiting around for a Godot lynch isn't going to help contribute much to the game. Now that you have "one scum found," you

could

start looking to others and stating how you find them to be suspicious.

[wolframnhart]

@KE

Fine you find Godot scummy, but you don't vote him you don't try to push for him, nothing at all really. I can see why Zoneace is voting for you for lack of even a pulse in you it seems, but I am not ready to vote your way yet because I don't want to lynch someone just because they are a crappy player (we have done that twice now and both times were townie).

[Inspector Godot]

Ok, I've done my reread and keep in mind that I'm not the kind of guy for huge posts but I may do one later on.

Danger, a lot of the reason why you're named is because of Charter. His tunnel vision and attempt at looking townie after our ABR lynch is probably the deciding factor. To be honest, I haven't really gotten much of a read from you. To be honest, I've been happy with a Charter lynch for a long time.

Vote Danger

Flameaxe, you don't seem to be posting much and I'm a bit concerned. Are you trying to fly under the radar?

That's all for now but I think I'll be making another post soon.

[Flameaxe]

Yes, of course I am. [/sarcasm] But in all seriousness, the middle of the week is pretty hectic for me, and this was no different.

Something as soon as possible.

[ZONEACE]

Axe's lack of posting is a nulltell, its what he does.


but yeah, we need to kill danger and KE both today. its a damn shame we can't do that. If my KE wagon doesn't go anywhere i'll put an end to danger, cause well, its necessar.


why the hell is it that 2 town players felt the need to act so damn scummy the first 2 days? that was really unhelpful.

[KingEnigma]

day 1 i'll throw my vote on someone i think is scum.
day 2 i'll throw my vote on someone i think is scum.
day 3 i'll throw my vote on someone i think is scum, gut not if we are down 2 townies and people are geing lynch happy.

I reiterated that i was still thinking that godot is scum, gut nobody else is interested in that line of reasoning. my vote was on him the entire "day" yesterday and the only other people on it that i can rememger, were gloodthirsty anyways.

and thanks for calling me a crappy player, i'm pretty sure getween this and the other game i'm in, i'll not ge playing mafia anymore, everyone has gotten pretty mean.

[wolframnhart]

Take it with a grain of salt KE, and don't pull a charter here. If people are calling you out on your play it's up to you to change it, not just say "Fine I am not going to play anymore"

[KingEnigma]

Long post, for me at least.

Godot is scum, i know this, everyone knows this gut nobody is voting for him, which is odd. Okay thats 1 scum down.

at one point on page 3 zoneace said

Its entirely possible that the heroe's are scum, 3 scum in a mini is not unstandard.

I'm not the only one that thinks this am I? I mean, it would seem reasonable for for the 3 heroes to be scum and have been given false claims AND PRs.

that the heroes are not necessarily scum. two posts later we get a they are all scum, lets vote that way. Weird? Yeah.

Kloud also starts really wanting a massclaim, gut we as a group pretty much decided against it at that point.

Zoneace on page 6 now says heroes are scum again...

when did I decree that all the scum were heroes?


stop tryin got push shit on me

Kloud again pushes for a massclaim...

I agree, the mass claim could very well assist in gaining momentum, so I am not opposed to the idea. Do you think we should vote on the issue, if the majority of people decide it is a good idea we claim if not we don't? I also think the dice roll idea would be a nice way to get this started.

Kloud agrees with me!!

*gasp* KE didn't substitute his "b's" for "g's"!!

Back to the game. I agree that some of Godot's posts when it comes to the mass claim do seem a little opportunistic, but there are other aspects of your post that I do not agree with. The only proponent of your reasoning that I am not following is the last section referring to the conversation with Godot and Crub. I do not see how Godot explaining that 3 scum in a mini isn't unnatural is considered suspicious, nor do I find him suspecting Crub for not being active (at least I think that was what he found suspicious about Crub) to stand out either.

All other points you made I find to be viable at the moment, but I am going to wait for Godot to respond before placing my vote.

Godot responds "Good reasoning (paraphrasing) and then.....Kloud

I am not liking your response, Godot, for the way this is phrased above makes it seem like you are agreeing with KE's reasoning, and in doing so makes me feel like you just admitted the suspicions were valid. That makes you look scummy.

WHY NO VOTE!? YOU PROMISED ME!!

and a few pages later Kloud again

I will say, however, that while I feel KE adequately justified his reasoning for voting Godot, I am not liking post 289. It is one thing to strongly believe that a player may be scum, but is another thing in my opinion to focus solely on this one person and completely ignore all others, as it provides more opportunity for other scum to slip under the radar. I have nothing against you feeling that Godot is scum, as I feel that your logic is viable, but I would think that if you believe that you have hit scum, you would be looking at others now in hopes of finding Godot's (hypothetical) scum buddies.

Godot

I find Flameaxe suspicious but as far as I'm concerned it's either you or pwnz today.

also on page 13 Kloud had a huge post in godot's defense..which I will not repost, but look at agove, and then think about it.


Here are your scum: Godot, Kloud, and Flameaxe. While Zoneace is insane, and geing overly hostile, I dont see him as scum.

Vote: Godot

[Inspector Godot]

Here are your scum: Godot, Kloud, and Flameaxe. While Zoneace is insane, and geing overly hostile, I dont see him as scum.

Vote: Godot

Now this strikes me as very odd. Because, in my eyes, a scum pairing between me and Zone seems to be most obvious due to his sharing my views on almost everything. At least, that's what our dearly beloved Charter seemed to think. It's got me wondering.

[kloud1516]

I would like to point a few things out here:

Kloud also starts really wanting a massclaim, gut we as a group pretty much decided against it at that point.

I think I must be reading a different thread than you, KE, for I cannot find anywhere in the thread where I started off pushing for a massclaim. Could you please specify exactly which post it is that I started really wanting a massclaim?

The first time I see that I even mentioned a massclaim was in post 138, which you have quoted below. I do see, however, others that pushed for the massclaim almost from the get-go.

My examples:

Should we massclaim our characters? I've got a few of them down from the cat-firmation stage.

Should we massclaim our characters? I've got a few of them down from the cat-firmation stage.

While I am not FOR a massclaim, i AM curious at to who is on your list.

Grimmy
giggling at the cat-firmation.

So if the heroes are mafia in this game then we have three mafia members: Batman, Robin and Nightwing. A mass character claim could work I guess.

I didn't even enter the game until page 2 with post 38, by which time two players had already expressed interest in the massclaim, and then two posts after my entrance Godot does the same. I am not seeing this as the group deciding against massclaim either, so I feel that your argument is slightly fallacious.

Here are more examples from later on in the thread that I have found.

Ok, this kitty doesn't understand why everyone feels the need to quote everyone's posts and then put up what role they think they have.

I think it was my first post, but shouldn't we massclaim our roles? This will put an end to speculating and maybe we can get some better discussion going. I don't see what harm it can do to the town.

I'm pretty obvious, Catwoman.

It seems we've established a bout half the roles int eh game haven't we???

What more is there to do? mass name claim isn't a bad idea, at least it gives us somewhere to start. Yes someone coul dbe lying. But we could get everyone to roll the dice and then go in order so as to randomize it as best we can.

Role claiming is fine, but what do we think that we can gain from knowing who everyone is? I mean, we already have half of the characters pegged based solely on posing flavor text, don't we?

Kloud again pushes for a massclaim...

I agree, the mass claim could very well assist in gaining momentum, so I am not opposed to the idea. Do you think we should vote on the issue, if the majority of people decide it is a good idea we claim if not we don't? I also think the dice roll idea would be a nice way to get this started.

Every single one of the posts provided above precedes my own. At this point, I count four times that Charter has brought up massclaiming, and you are saying that

I

had been pushing for a mass claim. ?? . You've lost me here KE, as I don't see how me agreeing to the massclaim idea as me pushing for it either.

Wait though, for there is more:

And I'm not opposed to revealing my character, I'm just saving it just in case we get a mass character role-claim which would be so awesome. If you want me to claim, say the word.

Claim. Same goes for everyone else.

I find it interesting that you failed to mention any other players that accepted the idea of massclaiming. I find it even more interesting that you peg me as a person who was pushing for it, when posts like the one immediately above went unacknowledged.

Kloud agrees with me!!

*gasp* KE didn't substitute his "b's" for "g's"!!

Back to the game. I agree that some of Godot's posts

when it comes to the mass claim do seem a little opportunistic,

but there are other aspects of your post that I do not agree with. The only proponent of your reasoning that I am not following is the last section referring to the conversation with Godot and Crub. I do not see how Godot explaining that 3 scum in a mini isn't unnatural is considered suspicious, nor do I find him suspecting Crub for not being active (at least I think that was what he found suspicious about Crub) to stand out either.

All other points you made I find to be viable at the moment, but I am going to wait for Godot to respond before placing my vote.

The first bolded section above is what I agreed with. His vote

did

seem opportunistic, and I acknowledged that. I then went on to say that I disagreed with other aspects of your case. When I say all other points you made I found to be viable, I meant that the suspicious behavior of the vote was what I mainly agreed with, as well as the massclaiming hesitancy, for that is what what comprised your case if I am not mistaken.

Godot responds "Good reasoning (paraphrasing) and then.....Kloud

I am not liking your response, Godot, for the way this is phrased above makes it seem like you are agreeing with KE's reasoning, and in doing so makes me feel like you just admitted the suspicions were valid. That makes you look scummy.

WHY NO VOTE!? YOU PROMISED ME!!

I never promised you that I would jump on the Godot wagon. You quoted me above, so you should be able to see this. I said I was going to wait for Godot to respond before placing my vote. I did, and I admitted that I didn't like his response. He then responded to what I did not like about his initial response, and I accepted the response. In addition, I felt as though other players had exhibited far more suspicious behavior then Godot at the time, so I continued to hold onto my vote.

See posts 259 and 264. I had forgotten about this little interaction between Charter and I until reviewing it moments ago. As you can see, I am pointing out problems I found in charter's arguments as well, which I had been doing for quite some time I believe. This, imo, justifies why I didn't vote for Godot, as there were others that stood out more prominently to me.

and a few pages later Kloud again

I will say, however, that while I feel KE adequately justified his reasoning for voting Godot, I am not liking post 289. It is one thing to strongly believe that a player may be scum, but is another thing in my opinion to focus solely on this one person and completely ignore all others, as it provides more opportunity for other scum to slip under the radar. I have nothing against you feeling that Godot is scum, as I feel that your logic is viable, but I would think that if you believe that you have hit scum, you would be looking at others now in hopes of finding Godot's (hypothetical) scum buddies.

I am not seeing what your point with this quote is. I am stating why I feel that, while it is okay for you to suspect Godot, you should have been looking for his scum buddies at that point. This alludes back to my whole 'tunnel vision' problem with charter, as you both were seemingly insistent on pushing the Godot wagon and not doing anything else until this was accomplished. As I said above, even if Godot was/is scum, he would have two scum buddies as well, but you seemed intent on not doing besides keeping your vote on Godot, which I felt was not very helpful to the town. This is what I was getting at in my post 432 as well.

also on page 13 Kloud had a huge post in godot's defense..which I will not repost, but look at agove, and then think about it.

I am currently looking at page 13, and am not seeing the huge Godot defense post that you are referring to. I see post 300, which you have already quoted above, and my post 310 in which I gave my reasoning for finding pwnz's actions scummy and then voting for him. Not seeing defense of Godot in either of these, so if you could point out particular instances it would be appreciated.


On the whole, I feel that the first argument you were trying to make (which I am nut understanding in all honesty) with me pushing the massclaim to be fallacious. I also find that your preceding arguments to be flawed for reasons stated above. You seem to be trying to create a case based off of cherry-picked evidence and distorted facts, which is not very pro-town.

I have already leveled a FoS against you KE, and I would vote for you, but seeing as how we have limited opportunities of lynching scum left I am not going to do so just yet. There are others I must investigate further before deciding who I will be voting, but IGMEOY.

[ZONEACE]

WOULD YOU FRIGGIN VOTE SOMEONE PLEASE????

seriously, this game is going no where because NO ONE IS VOTING.

[KingEnigma]

Kloud

There could be several reasons for defending him, a big one being that one doesn't find Godot to be scum. I am still waiting on charter's recap of all things he finds suspicious when concerning Godot, but I know where my vote is going today.

vote: pwnz

Post 310, you you want see what everyone else feels like on Godot, you admit that he is acting scummy, you mention there are several good arguments on him gut you never vote for him.

How is that entire post not a defense? You gasically shoot down everything pwnz had to say and yet agree when other people vote for him. Its crazy man, crazy!! CRAZY!!! Pick one 1. Godot is scummy. 2. Godot is not scummy. Dont say "Hey, your right he is acting like scum gut dont anyone vote for him!"

[kloud1516]

Kloud

There could be several reasons for defending him, a big one being that one doesn't find Godot to be scum. I am still waiting on charter's recap of all things he finds suspicious when concerning Godot, but I know where my vote is going today.

vote: pwnz

Post 310, you you want see what everyone else feels like on Godot, you admit that he is acting scummy, you mention there are several good arguments on him gut you never vote for him.

Um, no, that was not what I was doing in 310, and if you would read it in its entirety you would see that. I mentioned there were logical arguments, yes, but as I said in my previous post, others were standing out as well, and so I wasn't yet ready to commit my vote to anyone in particular. Then, enter pwnz with this little number:

VOTE Inspector Gobot

L-2

In which he votes Godot without any reasoning whatsoever. Yes, Godot had been exhibiting several suspicious actions, but pwnz not providing any reasoning made him look ten times more opportunistic--the very thing you were voting Godot for. When others asked him to explain his case against Godot, this is what we were given:

To everyone else that wanted me to give some sort of explanation as to why I decided to vote for Godot:

A vote is a vote, usually put on someone when you are suspicious of their posting and overall demeanor. I placed my vote on him because I believe that he is the most suspicious player in this game so far. I'm not the only one, either, because I see others saying that he looks relatively scummy as well. So, to all of you that want me to explain why I put a vote on someone, how about we instead ask the person who has the votes on him why we shouldn't lynch him.

It is he who should be questioned instead of you who should be defending him, because you then look like you have some specific reason that you don't want him dead.

In which he completely avoids providing any kind of evidence, any kind of case against Godot whatsoever. He knowingly put him at L-2, and then uses this, plus the cases made by others as his reasoning. The quote of mine that you have supplied above was a response to the bolded section shown in pwnz's post. I felt this was a tactic in which pwnz was trying to jump on the wagon with the most momentum, and then argued that all players that possibly exercised dissent/concern about his actions should be looked at more closely. I took it as "you either agree with me, or you are scum; don't pay attention to what I just did, look at Godot."

It is he who should be questioned instead of you who should be defending him, because you then look like you have some specific reason that you don't want him dead.

Why exactly is it he that needs to be questioned as opposed to you right now? He already has been questioned. So, what you are saying is that either someone can agree with you on Godot's alignment, or they are automatically suspicious to you? If this is not the case, feel free to say otherwise when you decide to explain your vote. There could be several reasons for defending him, a big one being that one doesn't find Godot to be scum. I am still waiting on charter's recap of all things he finds suspicious when concerning Godot, but I know where my vote is going today.

I then proceed in this post to ask him why exactly it is he, who has provided no explanation to his vote and continues to dodge answering, that should not be questioned over Godot. I argue that Godot already has been questioned, and pwnz is trying to deflect attention off of himself. The segment of this post that you quoted above is directly addressing the part I quoted, which I have already explained why I found scummy.

He says that those that defend Godot will look like they have a reason for not wanting him lynched, and this is why I say that a reason that a player might not want him lynched is because they might not feel that he is scum. I was pointing out the flaws with his arguments and giving an opposing perspective to his logic, not defending Godot.

How is that entire post not a defense? You gasically shoot down everything pwnz had to say and yet agree when other people vote for him. Its crazy man, crazy!! CRAZY!!! Pick one 1. Godot is scummy. 2. Godot is not scummy. Dont say "Hey, your right he is acting like scum gut dont anyone vote for him!"

1) It is not a defense for reasons just stated above. You took something out of the context of its original meaning, and are trying to use it against me.

2) Yes, I shot down everything pwnz said because it was all fallacy and a means of evading to actually respond to interrogation. He was trying to get others to not focus on him, and divert attention onto Godot.

3) I agreed with other peoples reasoning in the sense that I felt it was logical. Pwnz provided no initial reasoning and then followed it up with illogical posts, and this is the key difference that makes the two situations incomparable. I called him out because he provided no case against Godot. Others did. Big difference wouldn't you say?

4) Okay. As of now, taking everything up to this point into consideration, I am going to say that Godot, while he had scummy moments earlier, is not scum. My logic behind this is

a) Two players have been aggressively pushing a Godot wagon for days now, assuming a tunnel vision perspective to get him out.

b) Town is perfectly capable of looking scum at points, but is not actually scum--a fact made blatantly clear by our two mislynches. Both appeared to be the scummiest players in the game, and one was a power role while the other was vanilla.

c) I personally do not see any connections between Godot and the two players I believe to be scum, except for the possibility of extreme distancing/bussing.

KE, you have also failed to respond to my rebuttal of your "Kloud had been pushing for the massclaim!" argument, so can I assume that my arguments against your initial statement to be accepted as valid?

[kloud1516]

EBWOP^^

Kloud

There could be several reasons for defending him, a big one being that one doesn't find Godot to be scum. I am still waiting on charter's recap of all things he finds suspicious when concerning Godot, but I know where my vote is going today.

vote: pwnz

Post 310, you you want see what everyone else feels like on Godot, you admit that he is acting scummy, you mention there are several good arguments on him gut you never vote for him.

Um, no, that was not what I was doing in 310, and if you would read it in its entirety you would see that. I mentioned there were logical arguments, yes, but as I said in my previous post, others were standing out as well, and so I wasn't yet ready to commit my vote to anyone in particular. Then, enter pwnz with this little number:

VOTE Inspector Gobot

L-2

In which he votes Godot without any reasoning whatsoever. Yes, Godot had been exhibiting several suspicious actions, but pwnz not providing any reasoning made him look ten times more opportunistic--the very thing you were voting Godot for. When others asked him to explain his case against Godot, this is what we were given:

To everyone else that wanted me to give some sort of explanation as to why I decided to vote for Godot:

A vote is a vote, usually put on someone when you are suspicious of their posting and overall demeanor. I placed my vote on him because I believe that he is the most suspicious player in this game so far. I'm not the only one, either, because I see others saying that he looks relatively scummy as well. So, to all of you that want me to explain why I put a vote on someone, how about we instead ask the person who has the votes on him why we shouldn't lynch him.

It is he who should be questioned instead of you who should be defending him, because you then look like you have some specific reason that you don't want him dead.

In which he completely avoids providing any kind of evidence, any kind of case against Godot whatsoever. He knowingly put him at L-2, and then uses this, plus the cases made by others as his reasoning. The quote of mine that you have supplied above was a response to the bolded section shown in pwnz's post. I felt this was a tactic in which pwnz was trying to jump on the wagon with the most momentum, and then argued that all players that possibly exercised dissent/concern about his actions should be looked at more closely. I took it as "you either agree with me, or you are scum; don't pay attention to what I just did, look at Godot."

It is he who should be questioned instead of you who should be defending him, because you then look like you have some specific reason that you don't want him dead.

Why exactly is it he that needs to be questioned as opposed to you right now? He already has been questioned. So, what you are saying is that either someone can agree with you on Godot's alignment, or they are automatically suspicious to you? If this is not the case, feel free to say otherwise when you decide to explain your vote. There could be several reasons for defending him, a big one being that one doesn't find Godot to be scum. I am still waiting on charter's recap of all things he finds suspicious when concerning Godot, but I know where my vote is going today.

I then proceed in this post to ask him why exactly it is he, who has provided no explanation to his vote and continues to dodge answering, that should not be questioned over Godot. I argue that Godot already has been questioned, and pwnz is trying to deflect attention off of himself. The segment of this post that you quoted above is directly addressing the part I quoted, which I have already explained why I found scummy.

He says that those that defend Godot will look like they have a reason for not wanting him lynched, and this is why I say that a reason that a player might not want him lynched is because they might not feel that he is scum. I was pointing out the flaws with his arguments and giving an opposing perspective to his logic, not defending Godot.

How is that entire post not a defense? You gasically shoot down everything pwnz had to say and yet agree when other people vote for him. Its crazy man, crazy!! CRAZY!!! Pick one 1. Godot is scummy. 2. Godot is not scummy. Dont say "Hey, your right he is acting like scum gut dont anyone vote for him!"

1) It is not a defense for reasons just stated above. You took something out of the context of its original meaning, and are trying to use it against me.

2) Yes, I shot down everything pwnz said because it was all fallacy and a means of evading to actually respond to interrogation. He was trying to get others to not focus on him, and divert attention onto Godot.

3) I agreed with other peoples reasoning in the sense that I felt it was logical. Pwnz provided no initial reasoning and then followed it up with illogical posts, and this is the key difference that makes the two situations incomparable. I called him out because he provided no case against Godot. Others did. Big difference wouldn't you say?

4) Okay. As of now, taking everything up to this point into consideration, I am going to say that Godot, while he had scummy moments earlier, is not scum. My logic behind this is

a) Two players have been aggressively pushing a Godot wagon for days now, assuming a tunnel vision perspective to get him out.

b) Town is perfectly capable of looking scum at points, but is not actually scum--a fact made blatantly clear by our two mislynches. Both appeared to be the scummiest players in the game, and one was a power role while the other was vanilla.

c) I personally do not see any connections between Godot and the two players I believe to be scum, except for the possibility of extreme distancing/bussing.

KE, you have also failed to respond to my rebuttal of your "Kloud had been pushing for the massclaim!" argument, so can I assume that my arguments against your initial statement to be accepted as valid?

[wolframnhart]

@KE

Much better posting there with your case against Godot. I may not agree with you on it KE but it is that kind of indepth posting that most players want, even if you end up being wrong, at least you were trying and showing why you thought certain things.

[kloud1516]

Bump

[size]

[kloud1516]

EBWOP^^ Bump. Preview = friend >.<

[Porochaz]

James Gordon looked at his watch he had been waiting for ages and he needed some sleep... so off he went to bed for the first time in 3 days and let Renee Montoya or Harvey Bullock (its his choice).

I will be back on the 5th, Oman will look after this game until then. If you need a votecount/prod, please ask him. If there is a majority lynch it will be twilight till I come back. (Im away to France, WOOOT) Thanks.