Mini 660 - Star Trek: DS9 Mafia (Ruined = Over)

[Light-kun]

I was prodded and totally didn't realize this game started....
0.o

That said:
Insert obligatory random vote here...

And as for the current happenings:
At this point, it is easy enough to suggest that the use of the klingon language is completely irrelevant at this point. It was much to obvious to everyone for it to be a strong klingon and might be for the theme.... or it could be important... I *really* don't know...

Anyway, to answer the question asked:
I said, "in for next" and it happened to be this game. So, I am pretty much clueless on the whole Star Trek franchise. (I know what a klingon is, and that is about it.)

Anyway *pokes mod* sorry mod!

[Light-kun]

>.<
I have no idea what you are talking about. For the first time in a long time, I don't feel like the biggest dork, nerd, geek in a room.


@Jeebus: Wolves are awesome.

@Everyone: What exactly does the town hope to gain from playing around mindlessly with the klingon translator?



Still, I feel somehow obligated to be a hypocrite and join the geekfest 2008. (Oh yes, there will be a nerdgasm.)

qatlh ta' SoH rur yuch

[Light-kun]

Okay, so Jebus didn't pay attention to the opening. Although the claim is definitely scummy. Had even one person role claimed, then the mafia would have more information (and thanks to the win condition at the beginning) town would gain virtually nothing. (Unless their role was something ridiculous, but I know NOTHING about this series, so someone please dumb it down for me if you are think someone's claim is total BS...)

[Light-kun]

Repitition is a huge win Jeebus. (spelled intentionally that way.)

Okay, this is pissing me off, but Fire was prodded, so I am lax there.

FoS: Liam

Okay, I know someone minored it, but since I posted before this how stupid of an idea a D1 role claim is (you know, except for *probably* confirming townies of people who know nothing of the series), I feel obligated to put up the big bad bold meaningless Finger of Suspicion.

*Dramatic music and lighting is requested for the viewing of this post.

[Light-kun]

You can't defend your personal attack by saying you don't do personal attacks.

Sigged.

I just read this game. I'll have to look into it more as we don't have anyone as suspect except Jebus. I'll wait with my vote against Jebus. As I've seen a pre-game talk of his. Even though he says he isn't newbie, he has newbie thoughts which give others the idea that he's scum.

But I believe that games shouldn't influence other games. I don't think we should roleclaim at all. Most of us (right Light?) know the characters and can perhaps link the claimed with a mafia role, like a doctor or something like that.
Could you explain why you want us to claim? And what is that win-condition claim you talked about?

Your vote is no longer on Jebus because you predecessor unvoted. (I think)

Wincondition claim was answered.

And as I said, the only people who could possibly be cleared by a role claim now are the ones who know absolutely nothing about DS9. (waves hand wildly) However, it seems like everyone but me (and maybe ku) knows at least something about the series... I don't watch *any* star trek so...yeah...

Anyway, I just reread all of Jebus' post and he has been pretty okay until the bandwagon made him sweat a bit... and as ku pointed out, he claims to not be new, and yet, he has played a lot like how I would expect an amateur to approach the game. (ie, ku had something similar in his above post.) If he admitted that he was a novice, then I would think: "Okay, so he is new. maybe a *little* bit of slack should be given. I can see that as a novice error." but he claims to actually know that his posts come off as scummy... I do not like this play, so I will go ahead with this:

Vote: Jebus

[Light-kun]

Hm... Sekinj, while I do agree that jeebus is fairly scummy, I am just a little worried about your opinion that the loss of a townie is ultimately good for town.. *Granted... he has been scummy, but that thought process is just suspicious...*

*Waits for Jeebus to claim, and again, I know nothing of Star Trek, please tell me if claim seems really stupid, cause I think I would buy virtually anything.*

[Light-kun]

Unvote Jebus

Not because he is completely off, but based on everyone's response, I guess his response seems pretty believable. Admittedly, he is suspect because there is an indication that his claim is a bit of a stretch, and his play thus far strikes against him. So, I will take it off for now, but deadline or consensus pending, I still think he is best for scum...

Nothing else peeks my interest at the moment.

[Light-kun]

Okay, so if we lynch Zoneace and he is town, then Jebus has to be scum? (or vice versa)


Yeah, sure... THAT is likely.

So, he is trying to obvious claim Martork, but I see a possibility for reason behind such madness.

[Light-kun]

Aging is mandatory, growing up is optional. Conclusion, age is irrelevant.

Okay, back onto the argument:

The klingon claim seems to be scummier in your eyes for what reason? Couldn't it be that he is just very obvious at bread crumbing? Or maybe he is attempting to throw off scum... I don't know..., but I think Jebus' play still trumps the whole klingon thing.

So, is anyone voting him for a different reason or did I miss something that is more condemning?

[Light-kun]

Yes, Frelaras should be a bit embarrassed for not unvoting the klingon, and he made some rather strange comments... But, he did make one good point:

Mortak is a minor character and in this game he has a day kill that obviously work. I guess this makes him 100% cleared?

Liam huh? I don't see much of a case on him yet... maybe something seems suspicious, but he could have genuine speculation. On the flip side, his post about a d1 mass claim was super scummy. In fact, if we lynched him (and he flipped scum), I would assume that scum had been given safe claims... If he flipped town however, we wouldn't gain much information...

[Light-kun]

I personally think pressure voting one person to about L-2 or 3 would be more effective, Ozzy.

Vote: td

[Light-kun]

Sekinj! You, Farside, and I are all in two games with each other. When he was like: Pie replaces Farside, I was like, "What are the odds!?" *Obviously higher than I speculated*

Anyway, Liam has been relatively scummier than other players, but there are the lurkers who I want to post. So, my vote is staying on td till his bigger post comes up. Afterwhich, I will give Liam a once over, and I will see if I can come up with anyone else who seems suspicious.

[Light-kun]

FoS Light-Kun

for trying to disassociate himself from lurkers when he himself only has 11 posts.

I post approx. once a day, however, since I didn't know that the game had started for 2-3 pages, I don't really see how this has much water. (Unless of course, you are saying I am scummy for not knowing the game had started.)

Anyway, td posted, so as promised:

Unvote

Now, to look at someone random and see what they did for the thread:

Nudude:
1- Random vote!
2-It could possibly be worf? I believe this would be part of the early game nerdfest.
3-Acknowledges someone's hardcore Star Trek knowledge.
4-Asks if anyone is up for a game of quarks.
5-Reminds us of how to reprimanded novices. (Don't yell with caps, explain what you think is wrong, Zoneace.)
6-asks if anti-federation players would know each other before game.
7- Promises to make more decent posts eventually, after he is settled.

Okay, now, Liam hasn't seemed to be the most helpful of all the players, but I feel that having 6 posts (and then the promise to post post) of absolutely 0% content is pretty anti town on page 13, due to heavy lurking. Also, it is just the absolute lack of content in his post that bug me. I mean, I know some players who don't post often (perhaps intentionally), but they really put some content in their posts. (And they would, at least, post more than seven times over 13 pages, but meh.)

However, when it comes down to a decision between a player who looks scummy and someone who is heavily lurking, I will favor the one who seemed scummy.

Vote: CallmeLiam

[Light-kun]

4-Asks if anyone is up for a game of quarks.

Actually, he's asking for a game

at Quark's

, which is a bar run by the Ferengi Quark. The game itself is called “Dabo”.

Sorry, I don't watch the show, so I wasn't sure what he was talking about. *Still don't, but thanks for the correction.*

[Light-kun]

First: What is a "changeling?"

Second: *knocks* LIAM!? WHERE ARE YOU!

Mod, prod if possible

[Light-kun]

Wow, a ray of hope? *laughs*
That makes me feel awesome... oh wait, I destroyed it by joining in the nerd fest.

Next:
I am glad that we can end the character talk. While it is the main thing that happened,
it seemed relatively...pointless... I don't see anything gained from it.

Okay, which would be better...

Frelaras doesn't seem all here (but farside has valid points), and I made a comment about sekinj's unsettling post about Jebus. *so* I am thinking....

I am going to give this more thought. Look over it myself, and see where my vote belongs.

[Light-kun]

Well, from my understanding of it, I would highly doubt we have 100% changeling scum team, but it makes some since for one of them (the Godfather or some other "high level" scum role) to be a changeling...?

Anyway, lynching based on character claim (unless it is so far fetched that it truly deserves a lynch) is completely moronic. In fact, I think that if we find a majority of claims, it would still be better to look at scum power: town power ratio over the believability that character X is likely to be in the game. (Although, this may prove to have some merit after a few townies have been nked.)

Hm... nothing else at the moment...

[Light-kun]

Vote: Sekinj

For various reasons, some being apart of m4yhem's arguement.

I haven't seen you as very scummy, but this action is fairly suspect... why not post your other reason so that other players might be swayed to seeing you reasoning. (ie, using someone else's reasoning is not the best reason to vote in my book.)

@Zoneace: I just read a bit on Weyoun, and I don't see why. I mean, he is high on command, but according to an addmittedly not super reliable source, he is only second in command. But, if you were looking for specific character (in other words, if the changeling doesn't have a real character), I guess I can see it and that is what you are saying. *Feels like I just talked in circles*

[Light-kun]

farside, the weird thing is that every time I come up an idea for scum, it gets shuffled by the more recent posts. My initial scum list was pretty much Jebus.

Lately... I have been looking at two people a bit more closely, but mentioning who and what not could be a bad thing. It will take a bit of time.


@Timeater: That whole idea of yours will pave a road to hell as a crackpot theory. We cannot assume based off meta that a role is probably townie or mafia because people changed roles. That just doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe the person got busy or they don't like DS9/Star Trek much... (Or maybe there are a few players they don't like in this game, etc...) In short, go with your second half and ignore the assumption.

[Light-kun]

Okay, I was preparing a pbpa...and fell asleep...
And when I manage to get to the computer, I find this... which is...really, really agreeable...

*Sighs* frelaras didn't seem scummy to me, just weird, but in the idea of a m4yhem/frelaras scum pair (among others, I would assume for a twelve person game), it seems a bit better. BTW, I am wondering:

Sekinj: Who do you think frelaras was "coaching?" A. Mana-ku. Who replaced mana? M4yhem...

Hm.. I am starting to see it. If frelaras is scum, then m4yhem is probably scum. if he is town? Kind of null...

Naturally, this applies in the reverse too. Since (in my opinion), I thought frelaras was more weird than scum, I will do my own mini PBPA of Mayhem and his predecessors:

Fire: Post 0, random.
Post 1, unvote, replacement request.
Completely null.

Mana: Post 0, going to read. (null)
Post 1, relatively plus, agrees with me (which=town, jkjk) Seriously though, the post holds of on voting Jeb, and questions his claimed amateur level. Also, speculates that mass role claim is bad. (townish)
Post 2: Questions time's thoughts. I agree that this occasionally/often needs to be done since I am not a mind reader, and he sometimes posts as if the case is obvious. (Townish)
Post 3: Busy. (null) wonders why Jesus was killed... but, still null.

I see this person as slightly townie.

Okay... the posts are just...

Well... *Scratches head.*

Post 0: Good, fairly townish.
Post 1: Slightly townish...
Post 2: Arrogance (null) Is asked a question that is for his predecessor... but instead of answering to the best of his ability, he says that he cannot... but will later say he can form opinions and be valid even though he wasn't "present" at the time... Sorry, but this just seems scummy to me. (Slightly scummy)
Post 3: "Just because I wasn't playing doesn't make my opinion invalid." Yes, and why not apply this to Farside's question since YOU know more about it than anyone.
*Ignoring frelaras part for a moment.* Time eater part was fairly town... but (and this is coming from someone who doesn't care for meta), M4y seems a little worried about townie/scum speculation from outside sources such as meta or replacement request value of his/her predecessors. (Slightly scummy)
*&Frelaras part: Slightly town?
Post 4: Wonders why I withhold my suspects... well, maybe because they happened to not be under suspicion, so telling them that would ruin it? (Again, kind of kidding.) this post doesn't scream town or scum... (neither)
Post 5: Contentless post. Just what we all need.

Over all, closer to scummy than town.

The other two seemed either null or town, but the inconclusiveness tells me very little.

I am going to wait on his response to Sekinj since he did *also* suspected frelaras.

[Light-kun]

Sorry, if I forget, it is just easier to assume the male tense...since every language's default is masculine really, no offense. People have called me female, but I ignore it... *is not bothered by that in the anonymity of the internet.*
And yes, I was asking because you failed to point out that little piece of relevance.

[Light-kun]

Post 3: "Just because I wasn't playing doesn't make my opinion invalid." Yes, and why not apply this to Farside's question since YOU know more about it than anyone.

Because it requires me to mind-read. I don’t know what was going on in Mana-kun’s mind, I only know her role and there is nothing in her role to prevent her posting content.

Yet you are trying to mind-read me, even after I told you my intentions you just blatantly ignored that. I'm not saying you shoudl trust my version because I say so, I'm saying that if you can't mind read Man, whose role you took over, what makes you think you knew all about what was happening with my comments?

I don’t have a response, but if I did, it might be similar to Sekinj here...

M4y seems a little worried about townie/scum speculation from outside sources such as meta or replacement request value of his/her predecessors. (Slightly scummy)

And? I explained my reasoning; I don’t think it’s wise to assume replacements are cleared just because they are replacements.
I don’t think I said anything about metas. Personally, I have nothing against metahunting.

I agree that scum replace just as often as town. Light will have to comment to say what exactly he thought was scummy.

I suggested you were slightly scummy due to what *could be* paranoia. Even if meta does not apply to you, it may apply to your predecessors. *Shrugs* I don’t put faith in meta, but your reaction seemed like a flinch

Post 4: Wonders why I withhold my suspects... well, maybe because they happened to not be under suspicion, so telling them that would ruin it? (Again, kind of kidding.) this post doesn't scream town or scum... (neither)

Did you ever explain why you are withholding them? Because it still seems scummy to me. I don’t see why the town benefits from you hiding what you think, and it seems like it could be a setup- for example, if you see a bandwagon you want to join, you could just say ‘oh yeah, that guy has been one of my suspects for ages’ and noone could contradict you.

light already said it was null...

Actually, I didn’t have much opinion on who is scum, with the possible exception of Liam, but he was losing suspicion from me fairly quickly. (Until his sudden attack on Sekinj. I didn’t really understand that.)

Post 5: Contentless post. Just what we all need.

Give me a break. At least I posted that day.

congrats

Posting everyday when you cannot add nothing is not necessary. Far from it.

I don’t like how quickly you agreed with Sekinj, how wishy-washy your post was, or how you are trying to set me up if Frelasa flips scum.

Fos:Lightkun

for that reason.

I am not setting you up for a lynch. Yes, I am looking for connections, and to a certain extent, they exist. However, I see Freleras as weird, not scum. In fact, I am slightly more suspicious of Liam at the moment. (Your loss of suspicion form me is due, in large part, due to your reactions when accused, but these will be useful later in the game.)

Unvote, Vote Liam

for

unvote, vote: senkinj

Yes, the way you laid out your big post was unhelpful, and I dislike your case on Frelaras a lot.

Unless you explain why you found it unhelpful and why you disliked his post, I find this to be fairly scummy. It went relatively unnoticed (with the exception of Sekinj), which surprises me.

Wonder why...

[Light-kun]

I really don't care for the light/ forbidden interaction against Liam. I don't believe lights vote on Liam is for the right reason's either.
I agree that if someone is that providing context and is just posting without really saying anything it comes off as scummy.
Since I see frelaras voting sek and I don't trust him but I see a contection somewhere here I will

unvote:
vote: light

Farside, usually your posts make a bit of sense. What is a "Light/forbidden intereraction against Liam?" If you are trying to say my interaction against Liam...? No.. wait.. *is confused...* As for the right reasons for voting Liam, see rest of post.

Why are you voting for someone who claimed Quark and doesn't have a counter-claimer?

Well, I believe that Liam is the one who suggested that character claims are meaningless. You know, someone else actually explained that it would only help scum. So, what better ploy could scum come up with? They lay out a claim, acting as a foolish town, and then they are in the clear for a few days. Now, I am sure he will deliver some form of real reasoning when he responds, but until then, my vote stands.

Unvote, Vote Liam

I don't like it, the case against CallMeLiam is crap (as is the case against frelaras).

--

Right now, I'm torn between sekinj and Light-kun, I'll need to think about this some more (that shouldn't take longer than 24 hours).

The "case"* may be crap, but I thought the post is suspicious. I acted on it and gave some opinions. And unfortunately, a majority of today’s talk has been around DS9 and arguments related there to. So, I find it to be very difficult to find anything else scummy.

On a side note:
If I assume that my gut feeling is right (and I think it is), then frelaras is more weird then scummy. Additionally, most of my suspicion on M4y (which is obviously very low, or he would have been the target of my vote) is pretty much non existent.

therefore: Who do I find scummy?

Well, no one else interested me (or the town, since the opinions of others matter) is sekinj, Liam, and jeb (deceased).

Without Jeb, that leaves sekinj and Liam. And since Liam's last post left a bad taste in my mouth, I will pursue him until he responds. (And once he elaborates, as I requested, I am certain that I can move on to Sekinj and try and dig something up from this wasteland of DS9 arguments.)

PS: Seriously, Farside, I am a little confused on what your post was saying other than you voted me because I voted Liam. Please clarify because I don't know who forbidden is (because it looks like you are talking about a person named forbidden...)

[Light-kun]

PS: Seriously, Farside, I am a little confused on what your post was saying other than you voted me because I voted Liam. Please clarify because I don't know who forbidden is (because it looks like you are talking about a person named forbidden...)

Replace Forbidden with Sek. God I can't believe I got the two of them confused.

Okay, that makes slightly more sense. However, I was more or less thinking idly on Sekinj's suggestion of a M4y+fre scum team. But, I also posted thoughts that fre seemed weird, not scummy, and that most of M4y's (combined with his predecessors) is null (more or less). Since I cannot find a connection here that makes them seem scummy, I am temporarily placing them in the slightly town pile. (Especially after M4y responded to Sekinj, which made me feel that of recent actions, Liam deserved my vote. Questions on that, see previous post.)

Sekinj:

Post 130: Tries to get a lynch on jebus going because of his attacks. While I agree they have no place in a game, they're also not a reason to lynch a player but rather get them replaced or behaving better.

This is true… I think either zone or time had better reasons to vote Jeb. But, I can agree. (Although the response was quotable!)

Post 167: Rather than try and push for someone he finds scummy, she's happy to vote jebus because that's the only lynch she thinks we'll be getting.
Then she pulls a 180 on Jebus based on the claim. This is the pro-towniest thing she's done thus far but it's an entirely safe unvoting from a scum stance as even the power-role claim seems to have done little to halt the bandwagon.

True, this point is more or less null.

Post 221: Throws doubt on the Klingon claim...

In this game, character claims don’t mean much to me, but casting doubt… needs to look this up to be sure* could be either way… depends on situation.

Post 234: Let's lynch all the non-DS9ers is the scummiest single sentence I've seen in the game so far.

Absolutely.

Post 293: Hops onto what looks like an easy wagon on me, but doesn't place his vote until he sees it gathering steam in 301

At that point, I don’t think I was really understanding what made you appear scummy at that point. My vote on you was strictly for that one post (#390).

Post 317: Calls me a lurker without bothering to check my V\LA status.

Gr… could be null. I didn’t accuse you of it, but since I didn’t check... (Granted, it may be opportunistic but…)

Post 374: The case against frelaras is weak, and the vote undeserved.

Then the argument with M4yhem regarding which I find myself agreeing with M4y on pretty much everything.

True. There isn’t much substance outside of the small connections between between M4y and fres, and when I assume one of them is town the case has virtually nothing. Again, fres= weird, not scummy. (Thus far…)

Now, on to Sekinj…
I would have to check out a few of these posts in context (but I am on crappy school computers, so I will do this later). Anyway, good post and thanks for explaining.

Unvote

[Light-kun]

Light-Kun is just building a bigger and bigger hole for himself imo. After Sekinj has been properly forced to claim/judged/lynched, he deserves serious attention. I think Light has accrued more FoS's than anyone else in the game at this point. That has to count for something and we have to take those fingers in some direction. I think he realized the Liam vote was a little silly for a townie to do and backed off it.

First: Most (if not all) of those FoS are from you. Maybe you are reading a different game.

Second: What part of "look into him later" are you not getting. School computers=crap. I can not post because I am not using crap. And I will, asap.

Three: I think I explained I voted Liam because of that singular post and waited for him to respond.

Fourth:

I have 3 meaningless FoS, that is correct. (Maybe four, but I only recall three.)

Now then, I am going to address.

Even if meta does not apply to you, it may apply to your predecessors. *Shrugs* I don’t put faith in meta, but your reaction seemed like a flinch

A flinch? The comment that started all this was a question about whether replacements were

less

likely to be scum. I wouldn’t flinch from that, as scum, I’d be applauding.

True, and you are right about how it started. I misread and utterly ****ed up on comprehension. I thought they were speculating on whether either of your predecessors were more likely to skip out on a town role or scum role. Sorry for my confusion.

Actually, I didn’t have much opinion on who is scum, with the possible exception of Liam, but he was losing suspicion from me fairly quickly.

So wait...you don’t actually have any suspects at all, even though you said you did, but didn’t want to reveal them?

Yes, I lied. Between the game speculation, and the death of someone I thought was scum, I don't have a major suspect. However, Liam's post made me want to look into Sekinj. I may suspect him after a reread of his posts.

Posting everyday when you cannot add nothing is not necessary. Far from it.

I didn’t add nothing, I asked a question (which noone bothered with except my suspect, but whatever.)

(Your loss of suspicion form me is due, in large part, due to your reactions when accused, but these will be useful later in the game.)

Fine, but I still dislike the interaction between you and Sekinj. Especially since you are going after Liam, who is voting for Sek. The fos remains.

I am not pursuing Liam, reread my last post. (and several posts before then.) I voted Liam because he voted with little/crappy *demonstrated* logic. And unlike timeeater (who got pissed off and fos me because I voted him for the same reason.)

[It's not so much the listing of whom you suspect, but the fact that listing the suspects also gives away whom you

don't

suspect. Listing anything more than the top two suspects on day one is not helpful.

Nobody asked Light-kun for a comprehensive rundown of all the players but if he says he has suspects but won’t talk about them, that raises eyebrows. [/quotes]

Maybe, maybe. This is a valid point. Maybe that didn't need to be lied about. *Shrugs* Oh well. I am hoping to gain some suspects in a reread, which (if not done sooner) will be done Friday since I am off.

[Light-kun]

Yes, I lied. Between the game speculation, and the death of someone I thought was scum, I don't have a major suspect.

It really isn’t protown to lie.

However, Liam's post made me want to look into Sekinj. I may suspect him after a reread of his posts.

That seems a little convenient for my tastes; one minute you suspect Liam, the next you’re thinking of voting his suspect.

I am not pursuing Liam, reread my last post. (and several posts before then.) I voted Liam because he voted with little/crappy *demonstrated* logic.

Yeah alright, you unvoted, that doesn’t mean you never voted him in the first place.

[. . .]

Where’d everyone go?

1. Good, it is truth.

2. True, but I *had* a suspect, who was shot. And I was horribly wrong about him... Stupid Jeb just had to be town, didn't he?

3. Granted, and I have no remorse putting one vote on him. (I think he *might* have had one before I did, but it was irrelevant.)

4. I dunno. Just seems like a slow game.

[Light-kun]

We're pushing the Sekinj vote, get with it people. If it doesn't go anywhere, we lynch Light-Kun (multiple FoS's, multiple scummy statements, admitted liar, flounderer). Lets just get things moving. Both are totally viable IMO and both are worthy lynchees. Requesting count, Deli. Ooba the game isn't that long and you've yet to post *bitchslap*.

1. FoS: Two of them are from you for worthless reasons.

2. multiple scummy statements. Actually, this is new. Would you care to show examples?

3. liar. Yes, everyone lies. It is an infliction of the human condition.

4. Flounderer... what?

[Light-kun]

People get lynched due to votes, not FoS, and the *reasons* are worthless. well, the two from you are anyway.

Yes, I lied. Get over it. (And that was a paraphrased quote from House, virtually meaningless.)

I know what it means, just not a hundred percent how it applies to me. I haven't floundered, just gotten rather pissed off that you keep attacking me for no real reason.

[Light-kun]

I suppose it wasn't a need to lie exactly. Lying wasn't the point.

Up to that point, there wasn't a lot going on. The way I see it, if people think they are being suspicious (if scum), they might be inclined to participate more...

As for people who would be town (and maybe some scum would do this, but it didn't matter who) someone would attack me for not listing who I found suspicious. At the time this happened, I figured I could generate a reason to find some people suspicious, but no one had actually caught my eye in a reread...

The only thing I noticed is that there was a lot of null, so I didn't really come up with anything worth holding back on who I suspected. In short, my lie = failure, and potentially, a waste of time... to a point.

I find Time's statement of lynch all liars being "tried and true" as mildly suspect. Lynch all liars just seems like a way for scum to easily lynch townies who screw up or are just general screw offs. Granted, town can take a small loss of townies (and this is necessary, usually, for town to win), but lynch all liars seems like a waste of a lynch.

As a side note, I agree with Liam on the lynch all liars issue.

Anyway, I am going to start a pbpa, and I want it to be its own post. So I will acknowledge any responses to this *after* my next post.

[Light-kun]

It is really late. And I finished an 8 page (on word) pbpa...and I am really uncertain of if I should post it or not... or rather, how I should post it... So, if you have ideas, feel free to post them... *yawns* but, I have to get up in three...maybe I can push four... hours, and I still need to right a conclusion. (I estimated 8 pages including my planned conclusion.)

So, yeah, suggestions on how to post it...

Is there a limit to how big a post can be...?

@zone and time: I disagree, but I will ask around after this game... (or at least, after I am not longer in it, whichever happens.)

See you guys tomorrow.

[Light-kun]

*cracks knuckles and back*

Well, it IS a pbpa on Timeater, and the point of going over *EVERY SINGLE* post is to demonstrate how endlessly pointless and unhelpful his posts have been. *Instead* I am have decided to take out every post that is not necessary, unhelpful, or otherwise dispensable. Then, I will list every post that is pretty much unnecessary. It will still be a long post, but much smaller than the original 8 page mass.

[Light-kun]

*I know I'm weird. You are too!

Now on to it:

Pbpa on timeater.
Post 6:Random vote. Null
Post 14: response to a random vote, joking. Null
Post 24: Responds to an accusation that post 16 gave spoilers out. (It did). Speculates on Mod’s love of the show, and wonders why Zone is talking gibberish. Null.
Post 26: Reminds mod Nudude voted for him. Null.
Post 60: Tells Nudude not to give scum ideas on safe townie claims. (Worf, in this case.) Votes Jeb for saying, “I want to die” and the earlier bandwagon issue. ...slightly town.
Post 63: Wonders wtf I am. (I DIDN’T KNOW WE STARTED!!) Anyway... kind Null?
Post 84: “Zone what translator are you using? URL plz” m(_ _)m Null.
Post 88: “Think that translator is defective -_-” NULL.
Post 103: Explains that Jeb’s newb act isn’t going to cut it, and thinks this is best because people will start talking once they vote jeb.
Post 105: “That depends. But probably, yes. Most setups inform the mafia of their fellow scum partners. They wont be informed of an SK.” More speculating and answering post 104 from Nudude.
Post 107: Claims Jeb is trying to rationalize scum mistakes, but admits he could be wrong. Seems like an out.... Slightly pro town, but second part reads as scummy to me.
Post 109: Speculation on potential changeling abilities if they exist in the game. Still Null.
Post 111: Wants to know why people are voting him. (Blames voting stage) Slightly paranoid...? Nah, still null.

*******Break*********
Sekinj’s post:

The two biggest wagons are Tim and Jeb. I was going to vote for Jeb, but I looked back at his post in isolation, and really didn't see much scummishness. I looked back at Tim's though and I see some patterns (it is very early, so this may be premature).

Tim has posted a lot, but most of his posts lack any type of content, even his lastest ones. By page 5 we should start having from content (his changlings post is the exception). There is also a lot of coaching (Posts 7,9,20), asking questions without providing his own opinion (Post 17), and agreeing with others without much explanation (Post 19). These are his non-content posts: 1-6, first part of 8, 11-14, 16, 18.

He is also using buddying / non-offensive phrasology alot. examples: "I could be wrong, fo sho"
(post 21) and "if that makes any sense" (post 22).

Also his comment on his Jebus vote was "Let's see where this goes" (post 9).

for those reasons -

Vote: Timeater

*Break ends*****

Post 121:“I have the biggest post count in the thread so far”How in Dante’s nine circles of hell is this relevant? He FoS Sekinj for “bandwagoning” Look, even if I admit (and I do) that voting you because other people are voting you is stupid and wrong, I have to admit that his other thoughts are ...okay. Premature, but good. And you paretically chastise him for thinking . . . which looks bad on your part. *IF* you are not scum, let him snoop around and be able to securely say in his mind: He looks town. But, your reaction is slightly scummy.
Some garbage on Jeb.’s claim being believable or not, and that will determine his lynchability.

“I'm sorry for posting alot and trying to be helpful?” Okay, let me count: 25 posts (thus far). . . 9 of those are completely useless/pointless (and some of those are helpful, but not with content). Seriously, posting a lot=\= helpful. A few more are not much better than completely useless. *Note, Sekinj’s immediate response was this too. Personally, I think Sekinj should have pushed this further, but whatever.*

[Light-kun]

Post 127: Says massclaim d1=bad. (Good point!) Explains what he means, but I think he is a tad defensive... I really dunno what he was responding to.
Prods people, which is null.
Post 135: He questions Liam and where he got the idea that Liam is being forced to claim. I agree, this is actually a good, direct post. Slightly townie points.
Post 170: asks for vote count.... Null.
Post 172: asks if Jeb has anything to say? (Looks townie, but unnecessary so...) Null.
Post 179: Says claim is interesting and he needs to think. Nullish...townish?
Post 181: Explains Vic is convenient for scum, and wouldn’t need to explain why he is alive after a few days. In light of Jeb being honest and true, this could be slightly scummy, but it is slightly townie.... Hm... I will give reasonable doubt. Slightly town.
Post 187: Says that Vic should have access outside of Holosuits, which is slightly townie.
Post 188: Finds proof that Vic can monitor the station.
Post 190: Responds to a rather stupid thought from Zone. Null, but still... I like this post.
Post 192: Lays of Jeb. Slightly town.
Post 198: Agrees that events are occurring inside the station.
Post 202: Votes for Jeb for the reason that there are 9 main characters and Vic isn’t one of them. This is scummy to me for the sole reason that making all of the pro town players the main cast is a stupid idea. If that were the case, I would mass claim, and lynch everyone who’s claims seems odd. Additionally, he is hinting that he is going to claim a main cast character (otherwise, he would realize that non main cast players are in the game.) Gr... I don’t like this post... so, slightly scummy.
Post 204: tells zone to stop being a bitch (love this part).
He then goes back on post 202 saying that there are more popular minor characters to pick... which... is slightly scummy because he back tracks on his reason for voting Jeb, but he refuses to consider that Vic is viable claim because of more popular characters.. Since when has a character’s lack of popularity been a reason to vote someone claiming that character.. Especially when it is a tracker role...
Post 214: Claims that asking “Where does it say that there are nine main characters” is “WIFOM” Granted, not answering is scummy, but I am missing the need for “WIFOM” to be brought in... A tad defensive, but null.
Post 217: Says Zone has been hinting at being Martok for a while, which I didn’t know... *Figured it was some sort of Klingon.* So, yeah. Maybe scummy, maybe not... Going with null
Post 224: Proves beyond all reasonable doubt that Zone is hinting at being a Klingon.
Post 256 (16^2! Or, 4^3!): He “expected” martok to kill someone... great. That is just fabulous . . . and unbelievable. But whatever. Will FoS anyone who “ninja” lynches Zone until day vig occurs.
Post 261: Attacks Liam as being confusing and undermining character claims. Townie.
Post 273: Wants to pressure vote non posters.
Post 296: “

FoS Light-Kun

for trying to disassociate himself from lurkers when he himself only has 11 posts.” Okay, that is great, sorry we don’t all post as much as you do. Oh, and sorry I wasn’t present for the first 3 pages. That may or may not have anything to do with my comparatively low post count.
Post 298 (and note, td did not post 297): He unvotes td because he is prodded, and then moves vote back to Liam where he feels comfortable with it. Why did he not do this in 296? I guess to look active. I don’t really know.

[Light-kun]

Post 322: Thinks we should vote Liam by Liam’s own logic. Asks for a URL for proof on something. (I think it was the 25 play DS9 game)
Post 224: “Quark couldn’t be scum.”
Post 225: “Well he could if he were a changeling.” *Headdesk* Waste of time.
Post 331: Defends Quark as a good guy. Asks to be trusted because “he knows what he is doing” and is “generally good at it[scumhunting]” Yeah, I doubt you are town, at the moment, so I won’t be doing either. This seems like a misguided townie argument, or scum trying to get the masses to follow him. (Masses being our little town, of course.)
Post 342: Defends lynching all DS9ers.
Post 343: Ebwop, he corrects to be “non” DS9ers.
Post 351: One of Time’s actually good posts. He almost completely shuts down Liam’s attack on him, but I think that some of Liam’s ideas were good, most notably, about the changelings. Assuming I understand this at all, I am guessing that he is saying say, [insert an obvious pro town player, like quark here] could be mafia because he is actually a scum. A lot like how Harry could be scum in a Harry Potter mafia. (This has happened, but I can’t recall source. It is from one of the games I’m in, maybe this one....)
Post 354: “Vote: Sekinj
For various reasons, some being apart of m4yhem's arguement.”
(Cept, his vote was bolded, just didn’t want to confuse mod.)Okay, this is crap. And when I pointed out the fact that this is crap, he responds:
Post 359: “Retrobution FoS on Light-Kun for trying to make it seem that my lack of content is suspicious” and “Do I really have to make super detailed posts every time I vote?” No, you do not, but if you have “various reasons” but only “some” are part of someone else’s arguments, then you clearly have your own reasons. SHARE THEM. (Note, I didn’t vote him or even FoS him, I comment that his post is suspicious because he claims to have more reasons but doesn’t post them.)
Post 364: States the obvious, says we need to lynch somebody, or just sit around and hope something happens. Suggests people would be less inclined to leave if they were scum, which makes me think that if he is scum, then farside is scum... (because “mana/pie were less likely to replace out if they were scum” is a bullshit argument for clearing someone, and is convenient way to clear a scum buddy.)
Post 379: Thinks little of gender in mafia.
Says he’ll look into coaching accusations between mana and frelaras(I think?). Further dislike of scum lists.

Post 398: Questions my vote on Liam. (Well, and I don’t think you were paying attention the first time, so I post this again: I don’t watch DS9, so who the f**k is Quark, and why is he town? Secondly, Liam, himself, said that character claims are useless and someone else mentioned that it only helps scum figure out the town’s abilities. Third, he made a post that can be seen as suspect, and I voted him *UNTIL* he replied, which is the only reason I voted him at all...*ROAR*)
Post 411: I am building myself into a hole apparently. Oh, well. I can expect town to agree with him in the next, oh, I dunno, 20 posts(sarcastic, not necessarily my real thought process)? “I think he realized the Liam vote was a little silly for a townie to do and backed off it.” WTF? I said in every post (including the one I voted for Liam IN) that I voted ONLY because he voted Sekinj without posting real reasons. (BTW, why the hell did you FoS me for being suspicious of you? If I vote someone without giving reasons, would you not attack me? Should I have done that instead of having (and giving) a reason? Don’t worry, I’ll wait.)
Post 421: Defends lynch all liars . . . Sorry, but this is fail to me. You keep making reference to this experience you have, etc,etc... yeah, I don’t give damn if you have experience. I will disagree, and it is going to take a lot more than a few scenarios where it *worked* to change my mind.
*ACK discussion is null.*

[Light-kun]

Post 428: Claims FoS are never worthless *I have yet to see someone lynched for having X number of FoS. Usually, it takes votes to do that. But maybe his two years mafia experience has found a case where they did something.*
Won’t provide examples of scummy statements. Well, yeah, I guess it is easier to beat someone who can’t defend themselves...
Goes on about being a liar. (As a partial point, I suppose my response could be taken as a worthless reminder of House or that town lies too. Both good.)
Insults my intelligence of the word flounder
Post 435: Tires of my Pbpas, because they seemed “forced”
Wait... hold on... I can do this...
Sorry, still can’t give a damn what you think of me.
Oh, but I did decide to ADDRESS what you said. I have made TWO, count’em TWO PBPAs. Neither were forced... (3, now, of course)

44/94 posts excluded, meaning that about 46% of his posts are worthless/meaningless/stating the obvious. (Some are only necessary because of an unnecessary post, and thus, are counted as worthless.) Of the above, they are mostly null or ambiguous posts that could go either way depending on his actual alignment.

Post 172-204 looks like one big wishywashy line of thinking so that he can inevitably vote Jeb, while being able to say that there is some reasonable doubt on his guilt. This looks like a set up and seems scummy. All the post before Post 60 are null due to RVS.

Post 111, post 121, and post 359 are all examples of response that show mild paranoia due to vote or suspicion him.

He spends three posts, 217, 224, and 256 explaining that Zone is a klingon or has hinted at having the role, eventually deciding it would be Martok.

For post 411, post 421, post 428, post 435, post 296 and post 359 are all designed to attack me, but he either lacks a (real) reason to attack me or refuses to give them for whatever ploy he has. But, he votes me because:
296: I “disassociate myself from lurkers when I only have 11 posts”
359: For “trying” to make his lack of content seem suspicious.
411: I am digging myself into a hole because Liam vote was silly and when I realized this, I backed off.
428: Maintains that I have made scummy statements, but won’t/can’t provide examples. Claims FoS are not worthless, and claims his 2 years of mafia experience makes him great... or something...
421, 435: Defends lynch all liars. Uses this to vote me, claims Sekinj lynch is going no where, thus I am next best thing, and that my pbpas are tired and forced.

Response:

296: I am tired of responding to this. First: I post, roughly, once a day. You can post 20 times a day all you want, I don’t care. But, I am not altering my life so I can post more, it isn’t happening.
359: You voted without providing original reasons, yet you claimed to have them. So, yes, I am going to question you on that. What I just love though, about this post, is you act as though I voted for you because of your vote post, but I didn’t even FoS. Looks like *this* is an overreaction.
411: I said, in the post in which I voted Liam: “Unless you explain why you found it unhelpful and why you disliked his post, I find this to be fairly scummy. It went relatively unnoticed (with the exception of Sekinj), which surprises me.” Hence, my vote on him was until he explained his post. People asked me about my vote, I EXPLAINED IT. This, more or less goes away, and the moment I see Liam’s post, I unvote (and wanted to focus on Sekinj) when you attack me.
428: You won’t provide examples because of a weak retort.... oh, yes... I get your plan. You take away my ability to argue your opinions, and I’ll get lynched without a fight. Why? Because you are so good at scum hunting and have two years of mafia experience. Whatever. This is just a ridiculous post. The only thing you can give any weight to voting me for is lying.

421, 435: I do enjoy the fact that by this point you kind of realize that your case on me is actually a single lie. But, since lynch all liars is pretty flawed, I am just going to leave this at disagreement.

YOU on the other hand are fairly paranoid, you active lurk, you assume that just because you have been good at scum hunting before that people should trust you. Well, I find these qualities to be scummy. Additionally, every time you vote someone, you will proceed to give reasonable doubt on there scumminess. (With Liam, you just think he is anti-town for attacking you *that is my read on the post, with Jeb you vote him but give yourself an out, with Sek, you indicate it probably won’t work and that I am next. So, either you will actually follow through with me, or give yourself an out. Heaven forbid you commit to your actions.)

Due to these reasons, I think that he is probably scum, and I will

Vote Timeater

.

*Sorry for this exceedingly long analysis, but with all the time this took, I was sure as hell going to post it.

[Light-kun]

As far as forum and mafiascum theory goes, I will admit to being an absolute and complete novice. I recently asked the person who led me to forum mafia (from IRC) (s/he will remain nameless), and while s/he agrees with me about LAL, apparently things I would see as scummy don't apply into forum games. (Though, the individual refused to give me an example fearing that would hinge on cheating....)

Your response indicates to me you are town. (

Unvote

)

Sorry for giant post.

*Roar! I'm not even a cat! I be a wulfy!*

Moving on.

First: Tim, I understand you are questioning Sekinj because you don't believe his post based on canon versus flavor, but how much can we depend on flavor being true to the series?

Second: Sekinj, is there any suggestion that your role is fallible? Like, you are unable to protect, or that there is a chance at failure, or is it a guaranteed save?

[Light-kun]

Doesn't matter, Sekinj is lynched, so...yeah...

*Ahem*

So, twilight... we wait until mod tells us who Sekinj is, and then we can resume examining me before moving onto someone interesting...

Oh, and I just realized something... Could Sekinj's role be like a jailkeeper... he indicates that he pretty much kidnaps someone to keep them safe for a night...

Grr.. wish I thought of that sooner...

[Light-kun]

Anyone want to claim Miller now to prevent future embarrassment?

Does anyone know if they are a miller ahead of time?

@ooba:

First: I don't like this testing the waters post of yours. It sounds like someone trying to see if their claim is viable or not.

Second: Depends on who you investigated, what data you gathered from it, and what the two "in the know" people think of your claim and your data (tim and td seem to be the nerds here, but I will think about it otherwise... especially after tim's flavor-related blunder yesterday.)

@Town: While I do agree that Tim's worry over the day vig's ability makes him slightly more likely, I can't think of anyone else the scum would kill. First, he claimed that it was an unlimited day vig, and second, he was pretty much confirmed town. Seems like any scum would have thought to attack him. This statement does not lower tim's odds of being scum as he very well could be.

[Light-kun]

First things first: I don't have any reason to doubt this claim, and assuming it is true (it appears believable according to wiki), so I will agree:

Vote: M4yhem

With Sekinj's suspicions yesterday, the find seems believable, but...

Still, I don't like the manner he brought up his claim. *Shrugs* Guess his weird diction just irks me is all. Otherwise, no problems (as I said) from what I read on wiki. JoaT is a believable claim for his character too, assuming I can trust Liam's judgment. So, barring any other persecution, or a believable claim, I will assume we can trust this find and claim.

[Light-kun]

Hm... with ooba dead... I guess it doesn't much matter what trick of his he used huh? The mafia got there kill, and any new information is out the window because he died... well...

Hm...
As for yesterday: I am slightly inclined to agree with Liam and frelaras. (Although, I am not sure what frelaras was referring to at the time of his post, his opinion is agreeable for me at this point.) That is to say, I am a little perturbed by his comment: “Its crucial to the town's survival that I know[if ooba can protect].”

Why...? That would have let mafia know if he could or could not, and by bringing this to scum’s attention, you insured they targeted him, reducing the odds (if he had it) of his protecting working from 1/6 (guess) to 0% (Since no protection role that I have seen can protect him/herself).

Simply put: I agree with Liam's last post: I want to know what you know tim that made knowing his abilities so important.

[Light-kun]

Yes, how about we milk this for all this is worth.

*Sigh* Unfortunately, I cannot deny the fact that I am Dukat, the cult. However, I also must admit that I haven't been able to "save" anyone yet. Farside was my first failed attempt, and timeater was my second. Both failed miserably. Farside just failed, but Tim is proved by the fact that he is attacking me. Since my followers would know the same night that they were saved (according to my flavor) it would be moronic of him to attack me when he is on my side.

So, what can be milked? Well, before Sisco found me, I *was* a part of the dominion. Oh yes, I am a cult with a mafia cover story. The mod really deserves a pat on the back. In short, my flavor indicates that I must win as cult while working with scum. I would have never foreseen running into Sisco here, but it happened...

Also, until tim dies (and that wouldn't be at least until day break tomorrow, I cannot recruit anymore. The flavor indicates that I must *kill* everyone in the "room" (meaning sisco) to insure my secret wouldn't get out... which made no sense... I mean, seriously, how the hell is that going to be useful when the secret is already out...?

So, let's think this out:

If you kill me today, I have to admit, scum will win this game. There is almost no doubt in my mind of this.

If we kill the scum I reveal to you, then even if I kill someone tonight, then the scum can't win. I can't win. Town victory is pretty much assured.

And if we kill a Tim... then... both scum and mafia win I think.... If that is possible, I dunno. But, scum, town, and cult would be tied.... Unless scum decided to kill me... yeah, if we killed Tim, and since I am the only cult, then the scum would win.

If we kill any townie, then scum wins. Hmm..

I dunno townies, seems like working with me is your best chance to victory. Especially since I know more about this game than any other single player. (Is it just me, or does information=death in this game?)

So, I suggest we unvote, and everyone talks this out a bit, and see what other opinions I can get.

[Light-kun]

Ah... too bad I made it to the computer first Liam... Trying to save your scum buddy and yourself and all that.

The two remainig scum are Liam and farside. And if you had any ability to reason, you would have realized that *I* lose no matter what. *Sighs* So long Liam, this is what you get for crossing me, town wins, and I lose either way. *Shrugs*

[Light-kun]

Consider my vote on Light for all intents and purposes but Tim is right. We need some discussion before his lynch.

Light-kun wrote:
So, let's think this out:

If you kill me today, I have to admit, scum will win this game. There is almost no doubt in my mind of this.

If we kill the scum I reveal to you, then even if I kill someone tonight, then the scum can't win. I can't win. Town victory is pretty much assured.

If you have scum to reveal to us then reveal already. This just strikes me as a mild threat to the town (saying that you are sure the scum will win.) while trying to stall your lynch. I have no idea why the cult would know of the mafia and if anything this will probably turn into a desperate ploy on your part. Still I am interested to see how and who you will reveal.

I think he has lied about his recruits. For one I noticed a connection between Light and Fre on my read though. He constantly referred to him as “strange not scummy” I will look back though the thread for these posts.

Actually, you are partially correct. I *did* lie about my recruitments. Farside was never my target, it was you, Sotty7, who I converted last night. My plan was to have the town kill Liam when I revealed him. Then, I would tell farside (fabricating the other mafia member) to shoot tim and I would no kill. As a result, town would hold a majority of 2 to 2 to 1 (My Role Pm says I must OUTNUMBER all other factions, and with the above ratio, I would tie, not outnumber). Then, I would have farside, Sotty and myself vote no lynch, have farside no kill, and then I would win with farside and Sotty, unfortunately, I am lynched, so thanks to Liam (who I would probably have chosen to kill anyway), this plan went straight to hell.

And sense I think I cross posted: *Applause*! Farside, way to look town. Must be so convenient for three people to vote me, and now you didn't even have to hammer.

4/7

TD, Tim, Frelaras, and Liam... *sighs* I am dead. So, here was my plan, now it is hell shot. *Shrugs* I tried. Oh, as for Sotty, he is no danger. He will not die with me, but my PM tells me that he will just be an anti town group, irrelevant of the game otherwise.

Well, this was fun. Hope to play a game like this again.

MOD: Seriously, my role was AWESOME. Major kudos for the idea!