Open 80 - Double Day Mafia (Game Over!)

[Corinthian]

Okay, I have to ask:

KoC hasn't made his pick for the list yet.

Llama decides to speak for him, saying that

KoC is gone for now but I expect K7, Faerie, Corin from him

Riot replies to that with

KoC states in post 745 he is suspicious of Firestarter, which is not reflected in your guess votes. He appears to be pro-town on Corin.

Why did Llama decide to speculate on KoC's picks for the list? He didn't give any reasons, either, just threw the names up there. This is two separate points, by the way. First, no one else is trying to guess other people's votes; second- what is the point of a post that presumes the direction of a player's suspicions with no supporting evidence presented? What is Llama hoping to achieve by that post?

Riot's response at least mentions a real piece of evidence, an indicator of KoC's possible intentions re: Firestarter.

Llama and Riot claim contradictory beliefs for KoC re: Corinth. Neither of them actually post any textual evidence as support, though.

(Okay, reread KoC in isolation, and I don't see where Llama's presumed KoC FaerieLord vote is coming from. Most of what I'm seeing from KoC is a continued push on K7 as incredibly scummy. He mentions several times that he would be willing to lynch Corinth if it comes down to that, but always reiterates that he finds K7 to be a much stronger lynch candidate. In his most recent posts he seems to be pretty soft on the Corinthscum idea.)

Why did Llama feel the need to post a guess as to KoC's intentions?

AAAND BACK.

killa seven - 6 (Knight of Cydonia, SpyreX, Corinthian, orangepenguin, Joubert, StrangerCoug)
Corinthian - 3 (LlamaFluff, Firestarter, TheSweatpantsNinja)
Manito - 2 (FaerieLord, killa seven)
Firestarter - 2 (armlx, CF Riot)
FaerieLord - 1 (Manito)
armlx - 1 (LaptopGun)

15 alive, 8 to lynch, 5 at deadline.

-Mod

[StrangerCoug]

Why did Llama feel the need to post a guess as to KoC's intentions

My first guess is he's as impatient to finish the day as I am xD We are on deadline, you know.

[Manito]

I'll say this again, as it seems to have been missed in my original posting of "The List" for myself.

What exactly is the case against KoC? I haven't seen any clear evidence as to why he is suspect for so many people...but I might have missed something.

Can someone please clarify?

[armlx]

Why did Llama decide to speculate on KoC's picks for the list? He didn't give any reasons, either, just threw the names up there. This is two separate points, by the way. First, no one else is trying to guess other people's votes; second- what is the point of a post that presumes the direction of a player's suspicions with no supporting evidence presented? What is Llama hoping to achieve by that post?

This comes across as really OMGUS to me. Its not like he filled them in, only speculated.

What exactly is the case against KoC? I haven't seen any clear evidence as to why he is suspect for so many people...but I might have missed something.

Posts 471, 492, 602 and 644 from me are points against him.

[LlamaFluff]

Why did Llama decide to speculate on KoC's picks for the list? He didn't give any reasons, either, just threw the names up there. This is two separate points, by the way. First, no one else is trying to guess other people's votes; second- what is the point of a post that presumes the direction of a player's suspicions with no supporting evidence presented? What is Llama hoping to achieve by that post?

This comes across as really OMGUS to me. Its not like he filled them in, only speculated.

This isnt the first time he has used OMGUS to defend himself from attacks, which is another reason I think he is a good lynch today.

@Corin - KoC is on V/LA which is why I speculated. He voted FL quickly day 2, keeps saying you are a good alternative near deadline, and is now voting K7.

[LlamaFluff]

@mod

can you prod K7 please and thanks

[LaptopGun]

Odd he didn't call it an OMGUS back then. But now does... hmmm. It's odd, but I really don't see how it's scummy. He still had an issue with it back then, right? I'm not getting scum reading if he was talking about it.

[SpyreX]

I'll admit that I've stagnated here. It feels like walking in molasses. I dont think without a flip at this point unless someone goes "I AM SCUM" I'm really going to change my mind. I would vote for any of my suspects without issue.

[armlx]

I'll admit that I've stagnated here. It feels like walking in molasses. I dont think without a flip at this point unless someone goes "I AM SCUM" I'm really going to change my mind. I would vote for any of my suspects without issue.

Agree. 5 days to deadline I will be willing to vote K7 if nothing is done for the sole purpose of moving along.

[somestrangeflea]

Thanks for your patience.

Prod is still out on FaerieLord.

killa seven has been prodded by request.

Knight of Cydonia will be replaced tomorrow if he doesn't post.

[CF Riot]

KoC case:

During the Forbid lynch, KoC was fervently pressing the lynch and constantly posting his confidence that Forbid was scum. This seemed over the top, like looking good for the camera.

He starts D1.5 with Fae (a popular suspect) in his sights, but claims to be unsure. When he puts his vote on Fae, it is done shortly after declaring a more town read of him, with no new posting coming from Fae that would change KoC's mind. The posts to look at for this are 348 through 368. Notice Spyre and Manito post a lot between KoC's contradictory posts, but Fae himself only makes one 1-line post. It appears to me that KoC decided momentum was building against Fae, so he decided to add his vote to get the wagon moving.

Post 628 The logic is faulty because if he is scum, after gaining LF's support he leaves himself no obligation to help LF after lynching a townie.

Post 637 Nearly every single statement he makes regarding me is incorrect. This is not opinion based, it is factual. My response is the post directly after his. This is scummy because it is OMGUS and making a ghost case.

His cases against K7 have stretched the facts far beyond what they really are. For instance, he makes multiple posts declaring that K7 was steering the Forbid wagon. I contest this idea in post 816, and in his following posts about K7 he drops that point from his case. He also claims K7 made a scum-slip in implying he knew Forbid was town. The posts he cites for this are post 120 and post 315. This is another stretch.

His votes have all been on popular targets. Forbid during her misdirection. Gimbo early today after the "shit post" and other eye catching Gimbo play. Fae when Manito and Spyre were pushing his lynch. K7 now that his wagon has gained steam.
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In summary, KoC is blending in with the crowd. His support is always behind a target that has the attention of other votes to diffuse blame. His cases are built mostly on extreme (mis)interpretation of posts.
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RE: Corin. Why do you refer to yourself in the 3rd person in your last post?

KoC posts suspicion of FL here.
" of K7 here.
" of FS here.
This is the base of my speculation.

After rereading, my assumption that KoC sees you as town are up for interpretation. There are several posts where he weighs your actions against K7's in your favor, but there are also many posts stating he is willing to lynch you today. In context, you may actually be more likely to be on his list than FS. Sorry for being biased.

[FaerieLord]

I don't get why I was prodded in the first place. I posted about 24 hours before the prod.

[armlx]

CF Riot, you make valid points. Waiting on the counter points.

[Corinthian]

@Riot: Using names makes it easier to follow an argument. I hate long sentences full of "him" and "you"-- they make it hard to tell which player is being talked about. I also prefer to use "I" when I am stating my own opinion and "Corinth" when I am referring to something someone else said about me. That way it's harder to quote me out of context.

In general: what exactly do youall mean by OMGUS? Referring to 1028 and 1029 here. I'm not voting Llama, I'm not even trying to make a serious scumcase against him.

[armlx]

In general: what exactly do youall mean by OMGUS? Referring to 1028 and 1029 here. I'm not voting Llama, I'm not even trying to make a serious scumcase against him.

Llama said KoC suspected you, and you just attack him after it. OMGUS.

[Corinthian]

So, responding to Llama's speculations is an automatic OMGUS?

Or, questioning Llama's motivation for claiming that KoC suspects K7, FL, and Corinth is OMGUS, simply because I am on that list?

I have a valid point. Llama is putting words in KoC's mouth while he is V/LA.

[armlx]

So, responding to Llama's speculations is an automatic OMGUS?

In the manner you did so, yes. You immediately directed it as an attack, which is going to bring up calls of OMGUS.

[Firestarter]

Apologies for not being present lately, Ive had alot of work in RL to contend with, will hope to get back on track in 48 hours..

[LlamaFluff]

I have a valid point. Llama is putting words in KoC's mouth while he is V/LA.

Well here is what he said about you in two of his recent posts

...Okay, that looks fairly good to me, actually. I can't see anything there that stands out as town-tells, to be honest. I'm willing to go with a Corin lynch today, but I want K7's head tomorrow.

I can see the reasons for the Corin wagon, and they're good, but I don't believe they're anywhere near as good as the K7 lynch.

KoC DOES appear to prefer a lynch of K7 to you, that is not a point I am trying to argue. When you look at his recent posts though it sure seems that he is willing to lynch you too.

Armlx is right about the OMGUS stuff too

[killa seven]

i wish we were lynching koc.

[LlamaFluff]

i wish we were lynching koc.

This mindset still wants me to lynch Corin more then K7. K7 not shamelessly wagoning the highest vote getter in his position just give me town vibes.

Also K7 was I right in posting this

K7 looks like KoC, Corin, manito but I cant read him too well

[armlx]

Except the past page has had more KoC hate then Corin hate.

[killa seven]

i put a kase on koc pages ago and asked for his lynch and voted for him.. so whats your point armlx?

[LlamaFluff]

Except the past page has had more KoC hate then Corin hate.

i put a kase on koc pages ago and asked for his lynch and voted for him.. so whats your point armlx?

I checked, this is right. Post 777 K7 made a bit of a case against KoC. There has been talk about KoC as a backup suspect but the fact that he doesnt have any votes right now would mean K7 would need to start a successful wagon by deadline time.

This KoC suspicion isnt anything unfounded. This is a little WIFOMy but I dont see scum K7 trying to start a wagon based on five people having KoC in their top three suspects. Corin is looking like a better and better lynch compared to K7.

[somestrangeflea]

Taking into consideration KoC's general niceness in informing me of his V/LA and his request to stay in the game, I've decided to look for a temp replacement.