Mini 653 - Family Guy Mafia - Game over

[Kmd4390]

Hello and welcome to this breaking news:

Spooner Street is in trouble. The street has been blocked off and the citizens have decided to take matters into their own hands. The torches are lite and it looks like pitchforks are in hand.

Asian Reporter

Tricia Takanawa will be with the story all night.
Will they be able to pull it off or is it easier said then trying to catch a greased up deaf guy?

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/catch ... 2452147843

Day 1 ends August 25th, 4:00pm PST

With 12 people it takes 7 to lynch.

mistake bolded.

Also, /confirm and

vote xtoxm

because I can.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I've missed some things.

Cleveland claim: Even if it was a real character claim (he says it isn't), character doesn't mean anything as far as alignment. I don't know if anyone here has seen the movie Dogma, but I played a game based on it where Loki (seemingly scum) was our cop. Also, breadcrumbs can be used for a potential fake claim later. Claiming a character who you would think is town doesn not make you a townie.

Llama's claim: I'm not sure why you claimed so early but I do believe the claim. The vote count may be misleading. The mod said this. That seems to back your claim. Some one asked what character this may be. It doesn't help our game much to speculate on this but it makes it more fun. I think Meg could have a role like this. No one listens to anything she says so maybe her vote doesn't count.

[Kmd4390]

So voteless roles get us closer to LYLO.

So does a mislynch.

It is not a good lynch unless you really think that llama is scum.

[Kmd4390]

What does QFT mean?

[Kmd4390]

I don't think llama influenced that bandwagon. His "vote" isn't even on xtoxm.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, he changed his vote and 2 votes followed.

I see your point.

[Kmd4390]

LlamaFluff informed me he will be on V/LA for about 3 days. This is fine. I will not replace anyone who informs me of time off unless the time off is excessive. Also be aware of Rule 10 when it comes to not only prodding, but posting context. Thank you.

How long is excessive?

Anything over 1 week is excessive

[Kmd4390]

What is a policy lynch?

[Kmd4390]

Isn't that a distraction from scum hunting?

[Kmd4390]

I don't really get the wagon on xtoxm. He raises good points you know.

A vote restriction is (likely) not scum. Why would we use our lynch on some one unless we think they are scum? He can still contribute through discussion.

Unless you can come up with something to show llama as scum, I'd suggest looking elsewhere.

[Kmd4390]

What's this dalt bandwagon about? Is this really a bandwagon built over a bandwagon vote on xtoxm?

[Kmd4390]

It looked to me like he claimed Cleveland and then backed off of it calling it a joke.

I think if you really want to know, we need to hear from him what it all was.

Character claims don't mean much to me.

[Kmd4390]

I don't think gobo is scum, he looks very good to me.

And my suggestion did (does) make copius sense, as his presence, if town, move the day we reach lylo forward by one. So lynching him is no loss AT ALL. Either that, or he is scum. But for some reason you guys don't like it.

It accomplishes nothing. True, it doesn't affect LYLO but we give the scum a free kill.

[Kmd4390]

Why are you pushing for this so hard? If Llama is a voteless townie, lynching him only puts us at D2 no further from LYLO than we are right now. It also gives the scum a free NK. Unless you think his claim is false and he is scum, I don't see why you would push for his lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Llama lynch case: I still don't see it. I doubt that there would be voteless scum. If he is scum, his claim is likely false. You seem to believe the claim which is why I don't see the case. Your original plan was to lynch him because he has no vote. I have already pointed out why I disagree with this logic.

Character speculation: B-A-D. I know others have said this but it gets us nowhere as far as the game. I could easily say "I think Stewie is scum." There are two problems with this. 1) we don't know if Stewie really is scum or even if he is in the game. 2) We have no idea who has Stewie for a character. BTW, I picked Stewie randomly over any other character.

Cleveland "claim": I might have already commented on this but it is still being discussed. I'm not sure if it was a claim or not but if it was: A) it could be a fake claim for scum to fall back on later B) We don't even know if Cleveland's alignment so it really doesn't matter.

That is mostly what I see so far.

[Kmd4390]

Vote: Kmd4390

You're what the Spaniards call El Terrible.

Again, a complete character claim isnt the best path to take D1, this will simply add speculation which is not needed. This is the type of time I wish my vote counted.

Not a character claim. I suppose the first quote didn't really make sense (it was something along the lines of "this is my house"). #2 being Cleveland was coincidence. I just felt that that needed to be said.

Anyways if anyone is making early claims it's you. What's the point of telling us that your vote doesn't count? Are you trying to pass this off as some kind of pro-town role handicap? Why would anyone other than scum do that?

FoS: LF

This "claim" is probably not a claim. I have to agree with GW that the "coincidence" is the fact that both quotes were Cleveland. I think everyone is overdoing the whole Cleveland claim thing.

[Kmd4390]

Also, can someone else do a reread of BG and tell me if they notice what I did as well? I'll let you know what I saw if someone else sees it as well.

Serious bandwagoning. This was going to be my next post. I was going to catch up (which I just did), look back at BG and probably switch my vote. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the major bandwagons have been xtoxm, dalt, and recently llama and I think BG was on all 3. I will go back and look now but I think that's all true. Expect another post from me very shortly.

[Kmd4390]

woa guys its still early in day 1 and xtoxm is already at l-2? I'm not sure bout that- we've barely had time to gather any info at all.

Ok, so you are trying to stop the bandwagon here on the player who seems to be the scummiest. I agree that this would have been too quick of a lynch but the fact that you try to stop this one and then you jump on others enough that I am looking back at this makes me think that I may be right about BOTH xtoxm and you.

Here's my thoughts on the situation. Although I hate the idea of claiming day one, in this case I find it somewhat helpful- at least we know now that there are restrictions and to expect the unexpected so to speak. As for xtoxm's attacking LF, I don't find it scummy but I don't like it. I haven't played in any games with him(I don't think) so I don't really know his playstyle- maybe he can just be overly aggressive. I definately don't like the idea of lynching someone just because their vote doesn't count- if LF has a good idea of who is scum, he still has the capability of trying to influence other players to see someone's scumminess- sort of like the bandwagon on xtoxm now.

So you disagree with xtoxm but you defend him in the same post.

to a certain extent, I can understand why LF would be attacking txoxm- who wouldnt attack the person thats been attacking them from the start? but there is a certain level as to where the attacks would be acceptable and I do agree that LF's attacks are a bit overboard. I would personally like to hear something from dalt, considering his last post consisted of a vote and no reasoning.

Makes Llama's case look like OMGUS after others have already shown suspicion towards xtoxm.
Calls out dalt immediately after a few others point out the vote as being suspicious.

I don't see anything overly scummy about ghostwriter at all. Dalt, however is still suspicious to me. Although it was only one day, he has indeed posted since he posted his vote here and left. That makes me wonder if he is avoiding explaining his vote.

unvote, vote dalt

IG and xtoxm have already voted dalt at this time. BG has called out dalt but hasn't voted until this point.

xtoxm- you are pushing waaaay too hard for this lynch to happen, and its obvious it't not going to happen- at least not day 1. What are your thoughts on dalt, who quite a few others believe to be scum? I looked back in posts, and imo it does look like an unofficial claim, however do we really know what a claim of cleveland could mean? my vote stands

I agree that xtoxm was pushing a bad case hard here. You get your suspicion confused here though. The case on Dalt was a bandwagoning case and you talk about the cleveland claim which was actually gobo. Scum are building cases on people who they know are townies and therefore don't genuinely believe the case (barring bussing). This confusion leads me to believe that you are trying to force cases here.

I agree. Although I did attempt to read into it awhile back, the more I thought about it and realized that its stupid to keep talking about it. people make quotes in this game- we're playing family guy mafia- theres a million great quotes! I think that we need to just move on and ignore the so-called 'claims' until further in the game when people start making actual claims. Hopefully the game will start progressing again now that we have replacements. I agree that LF's play could be considered scummy- if he hadn't brought up a so-called claim in the first place, we couldnt' have gotten caught up in a character claim when we chould be trying to find scum here.

unvote, vote LF

What a quick change. The claim was scummy before but now it's stupid to talk about? Also, quick to jump on llama's bandwagon.

Conclusion: BG was on two of the three bandwagons that I noticed. Other connections to xtoxm can be seen. Possible scum pair?

[Kmd4390]

Serious bandwagoning. This was going to be my next post. I was going to catch up (which I just did), look back at BG and probably switch my vote. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the major bandwagons have been xtoxm, dalt, and recently llama and I think BG was on all 3. I will go back and look now but I think that's all true. Expect another post from me very shortly.

Close. You're very close, and here's where it gets a bit strange. She stays off of the xtoxm wagon.

You beat me to it!
The point is, you saw the same thing that I did. You saw it first but still, it's the same thing. Before the reread, I saw bandwagoning. After the reread, I saw the connection.

I'd agree with a D1 lynch on either of the two right now.

[Kmd4390]

It's not the interacting thing. It's the voting patterns and disagreement/defense post.

[Kmd4390]

ok I dont think xtoxm is scum! how many times do I have to say it? I have seen many games where town people do stupid things- I think that's what he is doing. I don't like what he's done- I dont agree with it- but I don't think he's scum. As for LF, I was the first to vote for him- how is that hopping on a bandwagon? and as for dalt why is it wrong to vote for someone who is being bandwagoned when you agree that their behavior is scummy?

What is he doing that makes you think that he isn't scum?

You were first to

vote

for llama. You were NOT the first on llama's case. It's not so much that you jumped the dalt bandwagon, it's the fact that you jumped those two bandwagons but avoided the one on xtoxm.

Yes, I do believe the claim. Maybe you've got a point. Perhaps he's some kind of rolecop vig, trying to throw scum off. So i'll lay off him for the moment.

Nobody is attacking you for believing the claim. In fact, most people do seem to believe the claim. It's believing the claim but still pushing for the lynch anyway that people are on your case about.

[Kmd4390]

I thought I changed my vote to BG already.
I just went back after reading the vote count and I was wrong.

unvote, vote BG

I check and recheck before posting, but I am human and make mistakes.

[Kmd4390]

Well, i've just got a general town feel from his posts.

Do you not believe in towntells? I do. And I like to think they work in much the same way as scumtells. As in, one small thing can be a major tell on your alignment.

which is it? general town feel or specific tells? If you see a major tell, why haven't you said so until now?

And your next point about me. Do you not understand what a voteless townie is? It moves lylo forward by an entire cycle, so there is absolutley no loss in lynching him. I fail to see how it can be construed as scummy to push/support this.

Yes, it moves lylo forward a cycle, but so does a mislynch. We gain nothing from this. There is no loss? There is a NK. A free NK if Llama is town.

you have just catorgorically said he wasn't roleclaiming, thus meaning you are not Cleveland.

Why does it matter if he is Cleveland or not?

She was on 2/3 wagon's, and not mine? And you're saying that's scummy? I was on 2 of the three wagon's, I am also scummy by the same logic, because I don't think that the third wagon is scummy?

One wagon was on yourself. You are obviously not going to push a wagon on yourself.

Ok, so you are trying to stop the bandwagon here on the player who seems to be the scummiest.

I don't like this comment from KMD at all. He states out of no-where that I have been the scummiest player in the game.

Out of nowhere? Where was my vote at this time? Who was I calling scummy THE WHOLE TIME? In my opinion, you were the scummiest at this point.

I have done that many times. It's how someone acts you have to analyse. That is not a scumtell. Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean you have to think they're scum.

Disagreeing with someone doesn't make them scum. I agree. But why disagree with some one and then immediately defend them like that?

What crap scum logic reasoning. I am to assume that when you are town, you never trust anyone, or follow someone you believe to be town?

I think GW is probably town in the way he attacks me over this, but i'm thinking KMD might be scum.

Right, I'm not attacking you and BG at all, right? This makes no sense.

Why would I go out of my way to defend her if I was scum with her?

Maybe because the case isn't just on BG. It involves you too. If you lay low, people will eventually point out "where did xtoxm go?"

[Kmd4390]

I hope you aren't just now realizing that.

[Kmd4390]

Not sure what to think of the lover claim. It would explain the connection. It would be a good claim for scum to make but I don't think that's the case.

unvote

I think the claim came a little earlier than it needed to but it seems accurate.

[Kmd4390]

It would be convenient because it explains the connection.
I did say though that I don't think that's the case.
It throws both players out there. Also, if one of you dies and flips scum, guess who is looked at next.

I believe the claim which is why I unvoted.

[Kmd4390]

Exactly what I just said.

[Kmd4390]

It would be convenient because it explains the connection.
I did say though that I don't think that's the case.
It throws both players out there. Also,

if one of you dies and flips scum, guess who is looked at next.

I believe the claim which is why I unvoted.

I'm saying if one of you were to die and the other didn't, it would be pretty obvious that the claim was fake.

We are in agreement and you are acting like we aren't.

[Kmd4390]

he thinks that I was saying they would.

[Kmd4390]

All I can think of is that in a game like this, experienced scum will often lurk because so many other players are doing it so they can get away with it.

We are barely getting any information from this.

You can't just say something's a scumtell.

1. I think scum try to avoid scumtells.
2. I think town try to avoid scumtells.
3. I think people play how they're gonna play.
4. I don't see how you can accuse an action as being a scumtell without clearly explaining why, in this case, it is a scumtell. Scumtells must be one time only things, because if you think about it, anything that is a scum tell instanly becomes not a scumtell, since scum will avoid it.

Entirely WIFOM. Scum excuse scum tells by calling them too obvious and saying scum would never do such a thing.

EBWOP - my typo probably made things unclear at the end.

My answers are in bold. There doesn't seem to be a case here, just an attack on my suspicions of LF followed by a vote on me. I'm looking at you as scum partners now

FoS StD

OMGUS much?

trying to look active much?






Still catching up.
Be back later.

[Kmd4390]

Second of all, no, this is not WIFOM. Yes, it's metagaming, but it's not WIFOM. I'm not saying that scum would do this because they're trying to look like town and be like, "why would I do this as scum?"

But scum do things that are seen as obvious scumtells and they DO say "why would I do that as scum?"

[Kmd4390]

Entirely WIFOM. Scum excuse scum tells by calling them too obvious and saying scum would never do such a thing.

I'm talking theory, not practice. I'm saying that scum who pay attention or even scum who think logically are going to avoid doing things like draw attention to themselves. I'm not saying they're going to avoid it to be like the town.

Basically, if I get caught being overeager in one game, I'm going to be less likely to throw myself out there in my next game as scum. I guess I worded my statement wrong. I apologize. I did not mean to imply that all scum avoided scumtells.

Agreed. People aren't likely to make the same slip twice. They won't make a slip they saw in a recent game. They will still slip though.

If we set aside the WIFOM parts (which I'll admit, I'm not so keen on myself since my understanding of WIFOM is fuzzy at best), how does the rest of my argument fair, kmd?

I don't like they way reborn saw your case as a defense of llama. That's what I'm wondering about right now.

All I can think of is that in a game like this, experienced scum will often lurk because so many other players are doing it so they can get away with it.

I'm pretty sure farsidemod is being ruthless about prodding and replacing players. I don't think lurking is an issue in this game. If you disagree, who do you think is guilty of it?

Wow, I can't believe I did that. I was thinking of another game in which there are very few active players. Ignore that statement....


Still catching up....

[Kmd4390]

Nowhere. I was talking about theme games in general. In many of the ones I've read there have been safeclaims.

FoS: Fermata

reasoning?

[Kmd4390]

Scum might tend to be a little less careful on the balancing act.

I've always thought that scum are

more

careful with what they post.

What is the advantage of breadcrumbing in a theme game, where scum often have safeclaims anyway?

I think it's mostly the same advantages as when there are not safe claims. For scum or town, they both want the same thing... It can help people believe your claim. It can help them trust you even before you claim (if they pick up on your crumb and believe you). But it can also backfire and get you lynched or NK'ed. So it really depends on the role and how much you think is good to risk.

It's not hard to breadcrumb for a future fakeclaim.

No, he wasn't advising other scum, he was just speculating about information that might help the scum. He was just being very...un-careful, something that town can't afford to be. I pointed them out in my case against IG in post 292. He too much talking about power roles and who the mafia probably would or wouldn't NK.

I agree that there was too much power role speculation.
Did IG ever respond about that?

I'm trying to decide whether I want to vote IG or KMD more. I also want to look at reborn.

Reasoning please?

[Kmd4390]

But I guess the main reason is that I didn't like that you criticized me for calling reborn's vote an OMGUS. It reads to me like a subtle defense of reborn. Do you think reborn's vote was not OMGUS? Why were you looking to criticize me over that?

Well, I think it may have been partially OMGUS. It was just the fact that there was a case on you and regardless of whether or not it was a good one, your post consisted of only "OMGUS much?"

[Kmd4390]

I am not sure I understand you. What does "the fact that there was a case on you" have anything to do with it?

You could have defended with more than 2 words.

With all replacement I have been pondering the possiblity of an extention. If enough people request an extention one will be given but it will most likely only be a 4 day extention at best.

An extension would be great.

As you said, there have been some replacements and the extra time would only help.

[Kmd4390]

No, he wasn't advising other scum, he was just speculating about information that might help the scum. He was just being very...un-careful, something that town can't afford to be. I pointed them out in my case against IG in post 292. He too much talking about power roles and who the mafia probably would or wouldn't NK.

I agree that there was too much power role speculation.
Did IG ever respond about that?

Not really, no. What do you want me to do, apologize?

Or maybe explain

why

you would speculate on power roles.

I am not sure I understand you. What does "the fact that there was a case on you" have anything to do with it?

You could have defended with more than 2 words.

Do you realize that STD voted reborn, reborn FoSed STD, and then I called it OMGUS? None of those people were attacking me, so I wasn't defending myself.

Ok, I was thinking you called a case on you OMGUS. That's my screw up...

[Kmd4390]

Well if you have no case, why do you feel that think specifically of all people needs to be looked at. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just asking, why thinktank?

[Kmd4390]

The point is, that his presence moves the day we reach lylo forward by an entire day. So there is absolutley nothing lost in lynching him

nothing lost except giving scum a NK....

I wonder if RF and IG are scum partners.

Why?

[Kmd4390]

sorry it took me so long to get this post but my internet's been going in and out all day. I'm still trying to comprehend what's been happening- I have a hard time completely comprehending long posts, and there've been a lot of those. I do think however that although he's posted a few times, thinktank seems to be really flying under the radar. He has made posts, but doesn't much elaborate on anything he says, and also has not participated much so far this game at all(although I must admit I haven't been much better).

unvote, vote thinktank

Again, restating a case and voting....

Well if you have no case, why do you feel that think specifically of all people needs to be looked at. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just asking, why thinktank?

Because he's doing such a damn good job of going under the radar. I know that must sound stupid but he's probably our least talked about player and no one really minds.

QFT. IG - several people have asked you to explain your role speculations, which you could have easily done so in this post, but either elected not so or were planning on doing so at a later time without specification. Either way, I am started to feel as though you are purposefully stonewalling those who press you for information, and I don't like it.

My play style is very speculatory (don't think that's a word). Speculating about power roles seems to have been a mistake, but oh well. I don't think too much bad has come of it except that it's made me look suspicious.

I think that everyone should be looked at throughout the course of the game. Looking at think isn't a bad idea. I was just wondering if you had anything specific to look at.

Speculation on power roles should be kept to yourself. One of the worst things you can do is out an unclaimed power role.

Thinktank, I happen to think the case on you is utterly weak to the point of ridiculousness. If BG hadn't claimed lovers with Xtoxm my vote would be on her right now because of her opportunistic waggoning onto you.

IG, please explain to me if you were serious about thinktank or if this was some kind of elaborate ruse/gambit?

I'm not serious about lynching him, I'm just trying to make sure he's either remembered or posts more. It seems like things are going the second way.

He isn't adding much content though. He's given out an award for most useless person, told us that being good is an option, and said that people are bad.

TT, what are your current opinions on specific players in this game?

[Kmd4390]

Alright, sorry for being absent for a bit. I'll be posting later today, but I'll need another reread. I will say this: Kmd, I see what you mean about thinktank not saying much and seeming to fly by without actually saying anything, but what about his earlier points?

He did post content early in the game. I see that looking back. He also just gave his thoughts that I asked for. I am not suspicious of TT but that doesn't mean he is cleared. Everyone should be looked in to in any game.

[Kmd4390]

I May not be able to post until Monday night.

[Kmd4390]

I May not be able to post until Monday night.

not gunna vote either are you?

vote IG

power role speculation mostly.

[Kmd4390]

unvote IG

Cleveland would be the worst pssible fake claim character wise (the whole gobo thing)
Reborn also unvoted so unless reborn and IG are BOTH scum, the claim looks clean.

Or if we're desperate, there's our voteless resident.

no

STD, something to ponder while I sleep - if I am scum, who are my scum partners?

What is the purpose in this? If you are town, asking the town to make connections involving you is a pointless distraction.

Still not back to normal internet access. I just happened to be able to post tonight. Tomorrow night and Wednesday night should be the same as tonight as far as my access.

[Kmd4390]

STD, something to ponder while I sleep - if I am scum, who are my scum partners?

What is the purpose in this? If you are town, asking the town to make connections involving you is a pointless distraction.

No. It's good for people to list their top suspects. At the moment LF and STD have tunnel-visioned onto me so they've effectively stopped scum-hunting. I'm trying to get them back on track while not immediately continuing the argument.

Ok, listing top suspects I can see. The way it was worded, it looked like you were asking for connections.

[Kmd4390]

Now then, moving on. From that list you posted, I'd have to go for EK.

Vote: Elvis_knits

Why are you narrowing your suspects to some one else's list?

Is Ghost Rider even a thing

movie.

from what i've seen of BG, i'm really thinking she's town too.

What makes you think so? All I see is bandwagon votes mostly containing other people's reasoning.

I've said why I think she's scum.

And it's almost scummy you saying that as a reason for not wanting to vote her. If you're a townie anyone is better than you for a lynch.

I would like to lynch a scum though.

Well I would hope so..

The thing is, at no point when Xtoxm was attacking you did you even hint at further abilities. I want to see if anyone counter-claims Peter.

You don't think Peter could be scum. It's not hard to claim a character truthfully with a fake roleclaim.

Llama, why are you so concerned with a "bastard setup" or whatever you called it (votless, town lovers ect.) if you can have your vote count later on?

IGs really doesnt line up with Cleveland though.

I'll admit that this crossed my mind.
It doesn't mean that the claim has to be fake though.

Your role does make sense. I have to say I thought you were going to claim meg since I remember someone speculating that meg might have no vote because nobody listens to her.

This was my thought as well. I don't think I posted it though.


What exactly is a JOAT?

[Kmd4390]

I believed the voteless claim originally. The JOAT claim (thanks for definition xtoxm) does seem to line up with Peter (if that matters). Something still doesn't seem right though. I don't see why everyone is concerned with LYLO being so early. I don't think we are starting out at LYLO. I don't know what to think about llama. Something doesn't seem right...

[Kmd4390]

And a random JOAT is by no means powerful.

It has a huge impact on the game though.

[Kmd4390]

Good posting.

Anyone want to lynch restfermata?

I'm tempted to throw a vote on EK almost out o process of elimination and fear of a no lynch with all of the claims. This post looks like an attempt to shift a wagon elsewhere before EK's has a chance to pop up.

[Kmd4390]

Kill- obviously great used on scum. Bad used on town.
RB- role blocking town power roles would suck.
Investigate- good on anyone.
Protect- again, obvious. you don't want to protect scum.

so used on town you have 2 good, 2 bad.
used on scum, 3 good 1 bad.

[Kmd4390]

Now then, moving on. From that list you posted, I'd have to go for EK.

Vote: Elvis_knits

Why are you narrowing your suspects to some one else's list?

Truth be told, I actually don't have a "scum list", so much as I have a "not scum in my mind list". I usually do those kind of lists as opposed to scum lists. I don't know why, I just do it. So, on his list, the only people who were not on my list were RF and EK. Also, STD himself is not on my list. So those are 3 (now 2) that I can feel fine lynching. And also,

Unvote

.

This doesn't answer my question. Why are you looking at STD's list instead of looking at everyone?

[Kmd4390]

It took a few PMs to the mod to explain it to me.

5 hours to confirm. It is highly likely if both llama and farside were online through most of this time that a few PMs could be sent. This does seem relatively quick though. Hard to base an opinion off of a 5 hour confirm...

If it was a few days, I'd say you are likely telling the truth.
If it was 5 minutes, I'd call BS.
5 hours could go either way.

[Kmd4390]

I see that xtoxm, GW, IG, RF are all voting for me. I think KMD means to vote for me from his comments. Technically L-3, but I consider it L-2. With the deadline and all, I figured I should claim ASAP if I am the highest vote leader. You disagree?

I wasn't going to vote you unless I had to in order to avoid a no lynch...

I think you should look at kmd tomorrow, as his latest attack on me was complete speculation, framing my actions in a scummy way that is very WIFOM.

attack?!?

I also think you should look at GW for piggy-backing onto STD's scum list and not seeming to have a mind of his own.

This is the point I was trying to make earlier.

Sorry, that's just the way it goes. I'd rather lynch a dodgy vanilla claim than risk drawing out another power role.

Why is it dodgy?

I understand if you have to lynch vanilla on principle. But I don't understand why it's dodgy.

I think all vanillas are Chris! Do you agree Reborn?

No, I don't, and I don't know why you'd think that.

I always assume that all vanillas have the same role. Maybe that's stupid. But that's what I thought.

I have never seen that in a themed game before...

unvote
vote no lynch

to make a point

Scum would get a free kill but all of the power roles would have a chance to act too and we don't risk lynching a townie. Obviously a no lynch can't catch scum though. Not sure what to think of the idea right now.

[Kmd4390]

Reborn, why are you avoiding llama's question.

I think I believe EK's claim but I don't like the suggestion that all vanilla are chris. It opens up a fake claim for scum to just say "you can't counterclaim, there are more than one of this character."

[Kmd4390]

So you aren't leaning one way or the other?

[Kmd4390]

So you aren't leaning one way or the other?

[Kmd4390]

So you won't push a lynch on some one who your vote is on close to a deadline?
And you won't even say whether you believe this person to be scum?

[Kmd4390]

So you

do

think that EK is scum?

[Kmd4390]

Llama, I'm not sure that lynching lovers is the way to go today.
I am also hesitant to no lynch although it may have it's benefits.
TT could be a decent lynch but mostly just because we have so few options.

[Kmd4390]

Is IG voting TT or EK?

fixed

[Kmd4390]

we run the risk of outing/lynching power roles.

It has to be done.

seriously?

[Kmd4390]

You are willing to risk lynching and outing more power roles on Day 1?

[Kmd4390]

You are willing to risk

outing more power roles and even lynch them

on Day 1?

edit: in bold

[Kmd4390]

The TT thing started out as a pressure vote and then a bandwagon vote. Now it is a lurker case. There really isn't much more to it that I know of.

[Kmd4390]

Llama, what are your thoughts on TT and Kloud? These are the only two players who you didn't mention with that last post.

[Kmd4390]

Sorry all, had no internet access in Vermont yesterday.
I can get on here in Massachusetts while I am at the hotel.

xtoxm, I've noticed that you have changed your vote a couple of times and it seems to have been lurker votes. Are you looking for a lurker lynch or are you trying to get more posts out of lurkers?

Reborn, I like your idea to nominate a few players for you but I don't think that it should be our major topic of discussion. We should be more concerned with scum hunting than who uses Stewie's inventions.

[Kmd4390]

KMD, who do you think is scum?

I think one of the lovers (probably BG's replacement) is scum because of setup reasons and the scummy play (bandwagoning, restating reasoning, early claim).

I think one of the lurkers or possibly some one who hasn't been looked at much is probably scum.

I'm hesitant to look at any claimed power roles right now. They could be scum but aren't the correct course of action today.

I'd approve of an EK lynch today, maybe a TT lynch if it comes down to it, and a no lynch wouldn't be terrible.

Unvote Vote Reborn

Was there an actual point to this?

I'll read the next 3 pages later. Something just came up.

[Kmd4390]

STD, I think it is likely that one of the two is scum but I don't think Day 1 us the time to risk that.

xtoxm has played an....interesting... last few pages. I don't even know what to think of that.

xtoxm, can you specify why you think that BG was town? You mentioned llama's claim being a safe claim. Is it possible that between JOAT and voteless, one of the two was a safeclaim? Also, I don't think you answered this. Are you trying to get a lurker lynch?

[Kmd4390]

I did answer it, KMD. Why don't you read the thread? You clearly haven't been reading it all if you missed me answering that.

Sorry, with limited access I find myself trying to catch up a lot in this game. It's already 40 pages and I am getting behind every day.

Reborn's claim seems to look worse with every post. Why didn't you tell us before that you misunderstood your role because of something you found looking it up? Was it not explained clearly in your PM? How could you be confused by llama's vote? Him being voteless has been talked about plenty. Why were you going to make a death ray for N1 regardless of who uses it?

[Kmd4390]

With the deadline coming up should you really be "trying to stir up excitement"?

Also just looked at most recent vote count and saw that I'm not voting.

vote TT

He seems to post without adding content or just make general statements. I don't want to mislynch a power role Day 1.

[Kmd4390]

edit: the power role thing is in reference to

claimed

power roles.
I'm not going to vote reborn like I was considering doing because I don't want to mislynch a claimed power role Day 1.

[Kmd4390]

There is no random lynch.
Anyone who votes should have a case especially if it is getting towards hammer.
Your vote on kloud looked like a pressure vote which is not what we need right now.
We need to work towards a lynch and I doubt that a pressure vote is going to get a lynch.
If you have a case on kloud, I'd love to hear it but if it is a pressure vote please change it.

[Kmd4390]

I'm a little wary of Thinktank at the moment. Something about him is bugging me.

Could it be the fact that he doesn't go out of the way to voice any opinions and even when he does, he barely backs it up at all?

[Kmd4390]

I'm a little wary of Thinktank at the moment. Something about him is bugging me.

His tunnelvision on lynching the lovers even thought atleast one of us is garanteed to be town?

That too.

[Kmd4390]

I expect LF to be roleblocked

Roleblocker? Do we know of the presence a scum roleblocker or did you pretty much just confess to being in a scum group with a roleblocker?

Good catch.
This quote makes reborn look VERY sure of a role blocker being in this game.
While it is a common role, we don't know that there is one.

[Kmd4390]

It doesn't look like the TT lynch is going to happen.
Deadline is getting closer.

unvote, vote reborn

[Kmd4390]

If nobody has 7 votes by deadline is it a no lynch or does the person with the most votes get lynched?

[Kmd4390]

I say we still lynch TT, reborn is inventor.

I'd support a TT lynch as well. Nobody seemed to be following that idea but I think it is the best way to go right now.

unvote, vote TT

.
I will keep this on unless we get close to the deadline and reborn is still the only option.

Scum lovers are possible. Let's not talk as if it's ruled out.

I doubt it in a game this size.

[Kmd4390]

If you are so confident, then try to instigate a new wagon on who you think is scum.

TT,
-not much content
-when he does add content, he doesn't push it
-tunnel vision

Anyone else, feel free to add more.

The proper play is to wait for day 2 to lynch either of them. Now is not the time.

vote: Llama

What a bad time to make a terrible idea.

Nice.

vote tt

Good vote.

[Kmd4390]

Good line.
I may start using that in mafia.
This is a good place to use it too.

[Kmd4390]

Scum mason?!?
That is pointless.
Scum communicate out of thread anyway.
Not important here though.

I think the word "majority" may have been used actually meaning "plurality".
When I see that, I assume it means a tie results in a no lynch.

[Kmd4390]

I'd still like to see it answered by the mod though.

[Kmd4390]

Good points RF.

[Kmd4390]

Reborn, I see what you are saying. If you are role blocked or give your invention to scum and we lynch you day 2, it isn't a total loss. If you are scum, that's obviously a good day 2 lynch. If you are town and either of the 2 scenarios happens, we get very helpful information.

On a side note, I don't like the pizza ban. =(

[Kmd4390]

xtoxm, I remember you saying that you thought I was town.
I know you showed suspicion (without a case) recently but earlier you said that you thought I was town.
I'm not sure what you said about EK before but I'll look.

As far as Reborn, let's see what he tells us on N2 and then we will decide what to do. I don't think he is our Day 1 lynch and we are so close to the deadline that I think this conversation should wait.

So is the pizza ban only for bolding? Can we still use pizza if it isn't bolded?

[Kmd4390]

Ok xtoxm, I think I was thinking of a different game when I said you thought I was town. I looked back and it looks like you maintain suspicion on both me and EK throughout the game.

[Kmd4390]

Pizza RF.

[Kmd4390]

Gah, only 24 hours left...Hmm, well I guess the situation is ok though, considering we don't need a proper lynch to lynch our suspect.

I like the way it is looking so far.
I would like to see TT come in before deadline though.

[Kmd4390]

Pizza RF.

Annnnd... kaboom. kmd is killed by lightning. It is now N1.

But I didn't bold it.


xtoxm, I hope that was a joke. lol.

[Kmd4390]

The fact that his square-wheeled wagon has stalled out a couple times now makes me even more sure that he is scum.

Why?

I've read back over TT's posts, and I don't find anything that stands out as particularly scummy, other than his 180 on whether or not to vote for myself and xtoxm. However, he's not the only person to do that.

See post 1070 for my case on TT.

[Kmd4390]

On a side note, I don't like the pizza ban. =(

I agree. We must not inhibit free speech light that. FIGHT THE OPPRESSION!

Pizza: Mod

I can't believe we're actually having this conversation, but it's awesome.

QFT

Sorry. Had an unexpected loss of internet when moving.

I've said all I'm going to say about who I think should be lynched today and I suggest that you think about it.

Really? You are about to be deadline lynched and you come in with "I've already said all I'm going to say....I suggest you think about it..."?

Well, I know where I am keeping my vote.

[Kmd4390]

OK, let's kick off. Last night I gave a portable forcefield generating device to KMD.

I can confirm this.
I got the device.
Still catching up.

[Kmd4390]

Am I missing something here? How can confirming a player help anyone except the town?

It gives scum a NK option, especially if the person is already a claimed power role.

OK, let's kick off. Last night I gave a portable forcefield generating device to KMD.

I can confirm this.
I got the device.
Still catching up.

Can you tell me if it worked or not? I wasn't told anything except that I was allowed to give you the device.

I can tell you that I got it and I know what it will do.
I also feel that I just figured a good way to use it to help the town.
I'm not so sure I should reveal what it will do because I don't want the scum to have that information.

Well, he can't use it until tonight.

This ^

[Kmd4390]

In that case I can only assume the scum targetted KMD and he was protected by my portable forcefield generating device. I'm going to reread to see who KMD was a threat to.

The forcefield device hasn't been used yet.

I notice you have attributed my comment to yourself.

Kmd - Don't reveal it then.

I won't.

[Kmd4390]

In that case I can only assume the scum targetted KMD and he was protected by my portable forcefield generating device. I'm going to reread to see who KMD was a threat to.

The forcefield device hasn't been used yet.

I notice you have attributed my comment to yourself.

Kmd - Don't reveal it then.

I won't.

Fixed.

[Kmd4390]

Am I missing something here? How can confirming a player help anyone except the town?

It gives scum a NK option, especially if the person is already a claimed power role.

OK, let's kick off. Last night I gave a portable forcefield generating device to KMD.

I can confirm this.
I got the device.
Still catching up.

Can you tell me if it worked or not? I wasn't told anything except that I was allowed to give you the device.

I can tell you that I got it and I know what it will do.
I also feel that I just figured a good way to use it to help the town.
I'm not so sure I should reveal what it will do because I don't want the scum to have that information.

Well, he can't use it until tonight.

This ^

Also fixed.

[Kmd4390]

Lynching us would be stupid. There is a garanteed town in one of us, and we should atleast wait until the other scum are dead.

I also highly suspect that my lover is town.

And why does TT being town implicate us?

I don't see why you are getting such a strong town read from rock.
BG seemed very scummy to me and rock hasn't really changed my mind.
I think everyone pretty much agreed that lovers shouldn't be lynched on Day 1 but what does everyone think now?
I think that there is a scum in the lover pair. Rock seems more likely at this point.
I need to look over TT's posts in order to see if I can draw any information from his town flip.

[Kmd4390]

That is interesting because BG is where I am getting most of the scum read from.
She...
-bandwagoned heavily
-simply restated what everyone said without adding her own new content
-claimed a lot earlier than she needed to

Rock's inactivity at night could either mean avoiding it or really wasn't around. It's nearly impossible to figure out which.

[Kmd4390]

Scum want to take out power roles first and save us for later. Plus, with the amount of suspsicion we had we're worth keeping alive for the mislynch potential anyway.

How would you know what scum want to do?

[Kmd4390]

That is interesting because BG is where I am getting most of the scum read from.
She...
-bandwagoned heavily
-simply restated what everyone said without adding her own new content
-claimed a lot earlier than she needed to

Rock's inactivity at night could either mean avoiding it or really wasn't around. It's nearly impossible to figure out which.

I meant to vote with this post.

vote Rock.

I really believed BG to be scum but we pretty much agreed not to lynch lovers on day 1.
It is now day 2 and I see no problem lynching Rock.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, admittedly I don't know what the scum in this game want to do.

But it's a fair assumption. And i've been scum before.

(Also, I don't like how you say that like an accusation)

I didn't mean it as an accusation.
I just meant that we can't assume that the scum are thinking the same way you are.

xtoxm, I really think that you are town but I don't think you are looking into the possibility of your lover being scum.

[Kmd4390]

This would be a terrible idea, and i'm quite certain it would lylo the town.

And like i've said, one of us is garanteed town, so you shouldn't be voting us even if you think one is scum until we catch other scum. It's almost scummy.

The town has a numbers advantage.
Losing 1 scum and 1 town from our lynch is not that bad.

[Kmd4390]

And I think that my lover is town. BG's actions make me quite confident of this.

BG's actions were scummy as hell. How can that make you confident that she is town?

[Kmd4390]

I think you're trying to save your own skin,

^^^

[Kmd4390]

And Kmd, you think BG is scum. Fair enough. I accept this.

What about your other suspects? Who do you think she is scum with?

What are you opinions on GW?

Why is it not better to go for someone else today? Even if she's scum, she's not the only scum.

RF, STD, Kloud. They are more gut feelings than anything though.
As for GW, I was thinking town because GW saw the connection between you and BG which I saw as genuine scum hunting.
I feel very strongly that Rock is scum.
Everyone else, I am too unsure right now.

[Kmd4390]

Is it.. because... Bonnie is pregnant so if she dies her baby dies with her and you are a massive paedo so... right... I don't understand the other way around though.

This made me laugh.

I found him to be town early, but he is now lurking and i've completely changed my mind on him, partly due to finding other people town.

Kmd (And Reborn)

Who would you say are the 3 scum, right now? (Assuming standard game of 3 mafia)

Rock, STD, and Kloud or RF.
As I said before though, those are mostly gut feelings.

[Kmd4390]

EK
Xtoxm/Rock
I've no idea for the third one. STD would be a gut feeling one but I ignore gut feelings and "too townie" isn't good reasoning so... I guess kloud could be scum, or kmd.

But today, I want EK or the lovers, barring critical information.

Interesting that you have the same gut feeling on kloud and STD.

[Kmd4390]

Well, tbh it's pretty much the same reasons you just mentioned, along with the fact that i'm struggling to name enough people I find scummy enough to call scum.

It is a problem. The third scum is keeping an extremely low profile or just playing really pro-town.

Or has come up with some super awesome fake claim. Or is kmd. But we shouldn't lynch kmd today because he has a special one shot ability now.

If you really thought I was scum, why would you want me to have a one shot ability?
Don't use this reasoning later on if you give something to scum without realizing it.

I'm starting to think maybe an STD wagon is a good place to go.

There is no case on STD yet though. A gut feeling is enough that you could look into a person more but not enough to call a wagon on that person a good one.

What is it with you and cases?!
.

See above. ^^^

It's interesting to see the similarities these lists of 3 have.

I agree. Kloud and STD showed up on mine, reborn's, and Xtoxm's.

Rock is still scum though.

[Kmd4390]

I am becoming increasingly sure of a GW/RF/Dragon scum setup.

You forgot Rock.

I still feel that BG/Rock are scum.

You have my attention.

This

is

interesting, isn't it? The fact that five people have almost identical suspect lists without much reasoning besides "everyone else seems to be town" or "all I have to go on right now are gut feelings" is slightly alarming. I can't help but consider the possibility that at least one of you simply are trying to blend in with a group opinion.

Well, I know myself to be town and I know that Reborn at least is an inventor. I also believe Xtoxm to be town (I doubt very seriously that both lovers are scum). Who were the other two that put you and STD on lists?

I was thinking that maybe we should see where these gut feelings are coming from. Maybe we should look into Kloud and STD.

I agree that the lovers contain a scum, but unlike you I think lynching them today is fine.

Up for a Rock lynch today?

Plus, the invention served basically to confirm me. Anything else it does is just a bonus.

If he's scum, we lose nothing

, if he's town, we gain something (although I don't know what that is).

I don't like the bolded part. Do NOT give any inventions to anyone who you are suspicious of in this game. You don't know what your inventions will do. They most likely will be dangerous if they end up in the hands of scum.

I don't see why Rock is being found scummy. He's a newbie who's flaked, and what he did say I didn't exactly find scummy.

Vote Kloud

I get the feeling he's just hitching on to what Kmd/Reborn has said in attempt to get a double mislynch without looking like he's fully backing it.

What about BG gave you such a strong town read? I think you answered this earlier but I couldn't find it last night(RL night, not game night).

It means exactly what I said: I don't think we should be outing power roles unless we need to, such as in the case of them getting close to a lynch. This keeps scum from getting more information about other power roles. Less information provided to scum is more beneficial to the town imo, especially so early in the game. A second thought: you yourself reborn have admitted/claimed that you believed LF could possibly be scum, so who is to say that the information he provides is truthful? I personally don't think is is scum as of now, but I find it interesting that you are willing to acquire information from someone you feel may be scum and trust it as a reliable way to clear another player.

If Llama is lying then his information will give us a chance of catching scum. For example, if I'm scum, my information has told you that kmd AND me are both scum. If I'm town, my information has told you that I am an inventor and kmd has a special ability tomorrow night. This is an example of information that only helps the town.

Llama's information clears someone if he is telling the truth, and that is important because cleared people form pro-town voting blocks which are extremely useful. It also helps us to further evaluate whether his claim is true or not.

IG's information is the least important, but seeing as we know his ability, we might as well know who he thinks is useful to save.

All claimed power roles need to claim information, because we lose nothing from it, and I'm sick of repeating this. We

only gain

from it.

If you're scum this could be interesting because you're protecting the claimed power roles for no reason. Makes me think you could be scum with Llama.

Llama should NOT tell us who is confirmed yet. The scum will want to NK some one who we aren't going to lynch. The scum gain more from knowing this than we do at this point. If llama or his confirmed town are about to be lynched, that is when he should tell us his information.
IG should NOT be telling us who he is protecting. We have no reason to know.

Reborn, I agree. The scum already know who is not scum with them. So how is confirming a player as town helping the mafia?

It's not knowing who is town that benefits them. It's knowing who the town knows is town that benefits them . (Sorry if that is confusing.) If they know that we have a confirmed town, they know we won't lynch this player, guess where their NK goes? Confirming townies does help us but, right now, we don't need to know. As I said already, llama can let us know if we are about to mislynch this person.

[Kmd4390]

All in all, I think we really need to get into the habit of making cases (sorry xtoxm ). Otherwise it's too easy for scum to throw BS around and confuse us. I am going to go write a post on my thoughts on some people, with hopefully some meatiness. Mmm, meaty.

That is interesting because BG is where I am getting most of the scum read from.
She...
-bandwagoned heavily
-simply restated what everyone said without adding her own new content
-claimed a lot earlier than she needed to

Rock's inactivity at night could either mean avoiding it or really wasn't around. It's nearly impossible to figure out which.

I'm thinking that Rock really wasn't around for the night because he still isn't here.
Other than that, this was, and still is, my case.

[Kmd4390]

Kloud, where is your BG case? The post number that you directed us to was not even your post.

[Kmd4390]

ok I dont think xtoxm is scum! how many times do I have to say it? I have seen many games where town people do stupid things- I think that's what he is doing. I don't like what he's done- I dont agree with it- but I don't think he's scum. As for LF, I was the first to vote for him- how is that hopping on a bandwagon? and as for dalt why is it wrong to vote for someone who is being bandwagoned when you agree that their behavior is scummy?

alright guys you know what? I don't know what else to sat because I'm just gonna end up repeating myself over and over if I attempt to defend myself and I'm sick of being attacked. I am bonny, one half of a lover pair. I won't tell who my lover is- if he wants to announce it he can but if you lynch either one of us, the other dies as well.

How

do you percieve that as the words of a scum?

1st post: She flat out says that she doesn't like the way you are playing but she WILL NOT call you scum for it. Why would she be so sure that you are town? Either she is fighting for her own life like you are now or she knows that you aren't scum which she could only know as scum. If she was still in this game, I'd ask her the same question I asked you, "why so sure that your lover is town?"

2nd post: That is a VERY early claim. It was not needed. Scum are often anxious to use a safe claim (in general, not here) or to use something like mason or lover to hide behind and ride through the game with everyone knowing that they have this role and probably aren't scum.

Xtoxm, I still don't see why you get this town read.

Tbh I can't really see Reborn being scum.

Agreed.

[Kmd4390]

I believe she was under the same false impression as I was at the start that we were confirmed town to each other (I later cleared this up with the mod).

She's claimed early as town before.

Check her out in PYP3. She claimed cop on day 1, under very little pressure, cop dead N1.

Not a smart claim in that game but different reason.
She claimed because she was going on vacation and knew that everyone would expect a claim when she was closer to being lynched.
She was worried about not being around for that and claimed.
I still don't agree with that but it's a different situation than this one.

[Kmd4390]

This is why if there is lover scum its probally xtoxm, mixed with a few things I know. There is a low enough chance at lover scum though right now to hold of lynching them for at least a day. They really shouldnt be getting looked at right now, people like GW, RF, Dragon and even Kloud/EK are better.

But Rock is scum.


RF, good post. I found myself agreeing with most of it.


Xtoxm, people are supporting the 1 scum, 1 town lover pair because it is right.

[Kmd4390]

STD, if we lynch Rock, we can avoid that situation where we lynch some one based off of nothing.

[Kmd4390]

You really want to kill Rock today, don't you?

Yes.

Like BG claimed, I am Bonny and am lovers with xtom. We have nightchat but no powers other than that. I don't know his role or alignment. I saw that he posted earlier that he is not Joe. That jives with the flavor text that came along with my role, so I'm inclined to believe him.

He said he doesn't know Xtoxm's alignment. Xtoxm claimed that he thinks BG new him to be town and he(Xtoxm) had to ask farside if they were confirmed to each other or not. Did Rock see something that BG didn't or is Xtoxm trying to convince us that BG, for some reason, thought that they were confirmed?

Why did both BG and Rockatansky spell Bonnie's name wrong?

It's spelled "Bonny" in the role pm.

I don't understand why farside, seeming so knowledgable of Family Guy and seeming to have put a lot of time into this game, would have a character's name spelled wrong.

I agree with what you've posted about reborn. First off, the way he claimed made no sense: "Seeing as we're so close to the deadline, and I consider myself to have a pretty important power role, I'm going to roleclaim." (post #508). At that point he had three votes. If he were truly an "important power role," then he would want to keep quiet and hope he doesn't get NK'ed. Instead, he claims inventor, yet somehow thinks he's going to be a target ahead of the BG and the cop.

Nor do I believe him when he claimed to misread his role PM. I don't see how the issue of whether he keeps his own inventions or sends them to another player could be confused, especially when he had plenty of time to closely read his pm before claiming.

Finally, he claims that he will be "confirmed" tomorrow, when, as I mentioned above, we will most likely have no way to verify whether he actually invented anything, whether it was sent to another player, and what, if any, effect it had.

unvote

vote reborn

Ok, I know we were close to lynching reborn so Rock wasn't the only one to vote that way but...
This post looks like scum trying to push a lynch on a power role.
People were suspicious of reborn already and the "slip" of not understanding his role completely was the perfect opportunity for scum to push the lynch and then say : "Well, he played scummy so it's his own fault for getting lynched"

Or his partner could say, "he gave me a death ray but it didn't work." Or "he gave me x-ray machine and I examined player x and he's town."

See above.

Reborn floundered pretty badly when questioned about his roleclaim, and yet somehow the wagon magically diverts away from him. The fact that his square-wheeled wagon has stalled out a couple times now makes me even more sure that he is scum.

I've read back over TT's posts, and I don't find anything that stands out as particularly scummy, other than his 180 on whether or not to vote for myself and xtoxm. However, he's not the only person to do that.

I don't like the fact that IG has pretty much disappeared after claiming. If he's town he should at least help out with the scum hunting.

Trying to get us back on reborn.




Reading everything after STD asking for a case now.

[Kmd4390]

I do have a power that I should claim though: I am a watcher. I targeted LF last night and was told that he performed no night action.

vote llamafluff

Was this your fakeclaim or did you make it up?
Wouldn't that be a tracker that would tell you if llama did anything?

Is there anything in rock's play that makes you think he's scum, or it just from babygirl's bandwagon-hopping?

See my last post.

It sounds like rock tried to fake tracker, but said watcher.

vote rocktansky

Exactly.

Wow, rock, way to kill yourself!

Sarcasm aside, if you look back at the other claims, the abilities match the character. How does a watcher OR a tracker match Bonnie?

[joke] It would match Herbert! [/joke]

Rock is a complete idiot, no matter his alignment.

BG told me she was a standard lover.

And he can see our conversation.

Wow, it's starting to like like he might be scum...

Didn't I say this?

In my mind, rock is certain scum at this point. So, it might be good to have talks about other people and keep scum hunting. But I like the idea of lynching certain scum today, even if you are a townie and have to die too. Sorry.

QFT.
Xtoxm, wasn't it you that was worried about an early LYLO before?
If you are concerned about this, why would you want to risk a mislynch and wait on lynching Rock?

I kinda feel sorry for Kmd going to all that effort, lol.

I did this before I saw Rock destroy his own game.

I agree we should wait to see what LF has to say, and Xtoxm should get some last words.

I will miss you xtoxm, even though you brought a bandwagon on me for no reason! I admire your aggressive, crazy play.

Yes, I wish Xtoxm didn't have to die with scum. He seems like a good player from what I have seen.

Looks like we really did see something earlier kmd. Good job keeping at it.

Yeah, you look even more likely to be town imo now.
What do (or anyone else) you think of the way Kloud simply agreed with what we said before?

[Kmd4390]

Sorry if any of that last post became outdated within minutes. I think some of it was.

[Kmd4390]

Oh...You might have said something like that, at one point...My memory is a little fuzzy...

Yes, but the early LYLO worry was based on the worst case scenario assumptions of LF-town-permanent voteless townie and 2-lovers-town.

As we now know, this is far from the case, so we do not need to worry yet.

I still prefer lynching scum than lynching some one hoping that they are scum.
Now is the time to lynch Rock.

[Kmd4390]

Thanks, KMD, for providing the case.

No problem.
I saw scum so I wanted him lynched.

Everyone, STOP VOTING NOW. We need LF's report.

Agreed.
Now is the time to hear what information llama gained last night.

Let's hope you're one of those lovers that waits a day to join their partner...

That would be nice.

[Kmd4390]

Nope.

I checked with Farside sometime about half way through Day 1...Insta sui

[Kmd4390]

How does that confirm some one to be town?
Maybe you RB'd scum and that is why there was no NK.

As JOAT, is that your RB or protect that was used?

Feel free to not answer these if for whatever reason it would hurt the town.

[Kmd4390]

Xtoxm, are you 100% sure that you die the exact night after Rock is lynched?

[Kmd4390]

GW?
Interesting.

[Kmd4390]

The no-kill makes it look like GW was blocked scum.
I was thinking GW is town though.

Hmm.....

[Kmd4390]

I commit suicide immediately after Rock dies. If he's lynched, I die in the lynch scene. If he's NKed, I die in the morning scene. If he was DayKilled, I would die in the DayKill scene.

So if we lynch Rock now, you die BEFORE night?

Why, btw?

[Kmd4390]

That is correct.

Hmm ok.
I thought it was night.
You are 100% sure of this?

[Kmd4390]

Well...

We find out after Rock is lynched anyway so...

[Kmd4390]

?

[Kmd4390]

I think I know what kmd is getting at - I'm pretty sure lovers die simultaneously, kmd.

No you don't.
Well maybe...
But not specifics.

[Kmd4390]

I thought I had a plan to save Xtoxm but I don't think it will work.

[Kmd4390]

Well....

I had an idea but....

[Kmd4390]

I think I have an idea either way.

I'm think I'm good with either a Rock or GW lynch.

[Kmd4390]

L-1.....

Hmm..

[Kmd4390]

unvote

[Kmd4390]

I think Rock and GW are both scum.

Maybe Rock is trying to stop discussion so we don't find that out.

[Kmd4390]

GW, there was no NK, llama's jailkeep is the only RB we know of, it looks like llama RB'd the scum's NK.

The only protective role we know of is IG but he is still alive so I don't think it was him.

[Kmd4390]

Sorry if some one said this already but maybe GW WAS the NK target.

[Kmd4390]

Guys - I can see GW as a valid scum nk.

Also, we need to be sure Rock is scum before we start treating LF as confirmed and take his word as gospel. That is why Rock has to go first.

Yeah.
Rock is scum.
GW is either scum or was targeted by scum.

[Kmd4390]

Guilty result = insta-claim.

Or push the lynch and if you aren't getting it, claim.

[Kmd4390]

Not a MC, but RF, STD, Kloud, and KMD should all say whether or not they could have stopped a kill last night, imo.

I didn't stop a kill.

[Kmd4390]

Well, probably, but not necessarily.

Why?

[Kmd4390]

I think Rock is our lynch today.

If GW is alive tomorrow, we can discuss this more then.

[Kmd4390]

But in that case we lose Xtoxm, all-but-confirmed town, to discuss it with us.

But we lynch scum too.

[Kmd4390]

If GW is scum, he is a goon, unless all scum have power roles and the scum have to choose one not to use each night.

Like I said, we discuss GW tomorrow if he is still alive.

vote Rock [/b[

[Kmd4390]

vote Rock

[Kmd4390]

And if GW is scum we lynch scum without me dieing...

But I am more sure of Rock than I am of GW.

[Kmd4390]

I think I'd be fine with a GW lynch.
I just am not as sure of GW as I am of Rock.

[Kmd4390]

Well, I believe Rock is at L-1...

[Kmd4390]

RF, I think lynching Rock and discussing GW tomorrow if he is still alive is the way to go.

We don't know that GW is scum.
We know that Rock is scum.
They will probably both die by endgame anyway.

Take the sure scum lynch.

[Kmd4390]

I thought Rock was being kept at L-2?

I revoted.

[Kmd4390]

I thought Rock was being kept at L-2?

I'd like a hammer from you please GW.

QFT

[Kmd4390]

Rock, why would you do that......

[Kmd4390]

True or not, it's not right to do that.

[Kmd4390]

Well, I consider it null even though that is where a lot of our suspicion was.
I say we just continue the game as we would.

[Kmd4390]

We don't know if it's true though.

[Kmd4390]

I agree.
Very fun game.

[Kmd4390]

Well, there's hammer.
Let farside decide.
I hope we can continue this.

[Kmd4390]

Good game town.

Reborn, enjoy the double vote?
Thanks for the invention.

[Kmd4390]

Okay just so people are no longer confused. Here is what happened.

Llama targeted GW that night with the double vote, but unknown to all KMD had a device that switched people at night. KMD switched GW with Reborn. Reborn became the double voter.

I wanted to explain it...

BTW, I was cop.
Got guilty on Rock which is why I attacked so hard.
I felt that I could get the lynch without having to claim.

[Kmd4390]

WOW. Thank GOD for the double vote. I was about sure LF was going to go for me then...

Your device was busdriver basically.
I expected you to be NK'd, so I switched you with GW thinking he was scum and hoping scum would end up NK'd instead of town.

The original plan was to draw the NK to myself and switch myself with GW, but I didn't think I did a very good job of it, so I switched you.
If I stuck to the plan, GW would have been NK'd and I'd actually have the double vote.

BTW, thanks Farside. This was one of the most fun games I've played/watched.

[Kmd4390]

KMD, please insta claim with a guilty next time!!! Lol.

I hope we're nominating Farside for a scummy. This was deffo my favourite game so far.

Second game as cop.
Was NK'd N1 first time.
Haven't seen insta-claim on guilty before, figured we'd get more discussion and I wouldn't have to claim yet, but if that is generally the right move, I'll keep it in mind.

And I agree about a scummy for Farside!

[Kmd4390]

If you had claimed cop, the BG would have died, then you.

No, GW would have died because I would have used busdriving device if I thought I'd be killed. I was killed anyway though.

Why was I killed btw?

I think you should keep guilty results for a while before revealing, just in case you can push the lynch without tipping your hand.

That's what I was thinking.

[Kmd4390]

Also Farside, Llama said

in thread

that he thought he made GW a double-voter. I can't believe no one noticed that there was a double-vote.

[Kmd4390]

That's true, but the double vote was on 3 lynches. (including game winner)

[Kmd4390]

Heh heh, I knew all of this, which is why you died KMD

Explain please...

[Kmd4390]

Interesting read...

[Kmd4390]

RF, it

was

hilarious watching you all not know that.