Open 83 - Polygamist Mafia (Game over!) before 628

[eldarad]

Vote Count

ZeekLTK (2) -

SpyreX, Adel

Skruffs (1) -

Harvey Pew

Adel (1) -

ZeekLTK

Shy Guy (1) -

Nameless

Not voting (5) -

Firestarter, Shy Guy, Skruffs, forbiddanlight, armix

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

ZeekLTK has not picked up his prod. Looking for another replacement.

[SpyreX]

More replacements! Huzzah!

Blah

[forbiddanlight]

More replacements! Huzzah!

Blah

So, now we have to come up with a new way to accuse someone else? Wonderful *rolls eyes*

[SpyreX]

My deal is nothing like 4 replacements at lylo in a game where there's links between players.

[forbiddanlight]

My deal is nothing like 4 replacements at lylo in a game where there's links between players.

Besides the lylo part, that was my thought as well. It's like we are TRYING to make this the longest game ever :S.

[SpyreX]

Ohh no, we've got a long way to go for that.

[forbiddanlight]

Ohh no, we've got a long way to go for that.

What about longest day?

[SpyreX]

I think there was a well over 30 page day in a game recently.

[Firestarter]

Until the cavalry arrive, we will not have anything in the way of a scum list from Adel.

Which seems like an eternity to wait for....

I understand that this is no fault of Adels, but it is stalling this game, along with lurky wasters...

[Adel]

I agree that the game is pretty stalled.

unvote, vote:Skruffs

Shy Guy was on to something with how I didn't have a good reason to place Chelseafan (now Skruffs) on my "cleared" list. The best I had was that if Chlseafan was scum then there would've been stronger opposition to my "lynch Chlseafan rather than Gimbo) case. I now see that not nearly as much time passed between me making that case, and me giving up and hammering Gimbo.

I suspect that Zeek is scum with Skruffs, so I'll be watching Harvey pretty closely.

[forbiddanlight]

I suspect that Zeek is scum with Skruffs, so I'll be watching Harvey pretty closely.

Also interesting was that Zeek was at two votes for awhile there. But, given the overall inactivity it's not as telling as it could be.

[armlx]

Ok, so current thoughts after first 7 pages (tired, don't want to forget stuff).

Chenhsi's claim initiative seems town to me.

even if you end up being a townie, you deserve to die for a stunt like that...

Do not like this one bit (page 5, re: gimbo), as well as his vote hop to chelseafan and his original vote on gimbo.

Current listings:

Scum:
Knight

Null:
Those not listed yet

Town:
Chenhsi
Chelseafan
SpyreX

[armlx]

actually, I say we take out spyrex. i personally think there's a good chance he's mafia, and even if he isn't, gimbo surely will be.

Lynch set up from Knight.

FS seems town in this game based on comparison with his completed game as town and ongoing stuffs.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but pairs are:

Me/Skruffs
adel/Spyre
fl/ShyGuy
Harvey/Zeek
FS/Namless?

Money atm is on Fl/Shyguy/Harvey/Zeek scum, only 11 pages in tho.

[armlx]

The Zeek/Harvey argument on 13 is very odd for two people who are supposed to know each other is town.mb/scummy/stretching, esp. since I know Chelseafan had issues and had to

chen's response to being wagoned was dumb, but I can't say I didn't expect it from him regardless of alignment.

I like how Zeek says he suspects Knight/fl then just attacks on his other scum pairing.

Adel's list thing is odd, but expected from her.

I'm going to have to read page 21 at least once more. I think its pretty important to alignments/connections.

570 sounds like a lot of stretching from Shy Guy.

599: Distancing factor... orly? Adel's 600 sums up my feelings on this well.

658: Trying to apply reasoning to replacements is dube replaced in one of my games as well which makes it completely null.

So, my scum listing stands (fl/shy guy/Zeek/Harvey). Most confident ShyGuy/fl is scum, small chance of FS/nameless beign scum IMO, but not large enough I wouldn't be comfortable voting Zeek/Harvey over Fl/ShyGuy to ensure a lynch on one of the 2 "groups".

As for most town, I would have to say Adel/SpyreX by far.

[Shy Guy]

armlx, it seems you are suspicious of me because

-Knight was frustrated with Gimbo's play.
-Knight thought Spryex and Gimbo were both suspicious and thought that lynching both of them was not a bad idea.
-I tried to make cases day 2 about day 1 actions while many other players either sat back and did nothing or tried to attack cases being made day 2.

Am I significantly miscategorizing the events you find me suspicious for? If so, how?

It also seems that you have no reason at all to be suspicious of my partner, that you've stated. Is this correct?

You also think the player you are replacing is town because
-he supported mass claim

I read over chenhsi and tried to find where he pioneered mass claiming and pushed for it strongly, and couldn't. If I was just bad at searching please correct me. However, if you are just saying chenhsi was town because when he was presented with the idea of mass claim and asked whether it was good or bad he said 'yeah good idea', that seems quite self serving to me.

In reading back over chenhsi, my eyes were again drawn to

I guess flea has voted for his fellow mafia member...

I say to prove our point we vote for Chelseafan and see what happens with his vote.

Unvote, Vote: Chelseafan

Why do you think flea is voting for his fellow mafia member? The only reason you think they are mafia is because they claimed.

Why should Chelseafan's vote change because you voted for him?

If you really think we are scum, why don't you vote for Gimbo, who has more votes and is closer to being lynched?

Here he is blatantly trying to shift Knight's focus away from himself and partner and on to Gimbo, who we now know to be a townie. Not only this, he does not address any of the issues Knight brings up, and only tries to shift attention to Gimbo, eventually leading to a Gimbo lynch.

I am coming more and more full circle in this game, in thinking that chenhsi/Chelseafan is the right lynch.

Some questions I have for Adel -- have you considered that Chelseafan just never thought about the implications of or even never realized that all other lover pairs were willing to lynch Gimbo? Why was scum bus-ing implausible at the stage you asked Chelseafan?

[Harvey Pew]

The Zeek/Harvey argument on 13 is very odd for two people who are supposed to know each other is town.

I don't see that. We were discussing the lynching of gimbo. Zeek thought he was scum and I thought he wasn't. It's as simple as that.

[Shy Guy]

Vote: Shy Guy

Chelseafan getting replaced reeks of frustrated scum replacing out because buddy sucked.

Epic reaching.

I din't remember him saying anything about problems. I did remember him constantly complaining that chenhsi was a poor partner.

I am not very willing to dismiss chenhsi's play as "always does that".

I'm not normally fond of using the meta game to accuse or defend people, but the fact that chenhsi is not really playing this game (or, apparently, others particularly much) is not indicative of scum as much as it is an issue with the player. Also, this strikes me as an attempt to make a policy lynch (Lynch All Lurkers?) rather than one based on strong evidence.

I've pointed out multiple posts by chenhsi I regard as strong evidence that he is scum.

What about how Chelseafan wanted to lynch someone everyone else was willing to lynch? Why are they #1 town, after being the optimal lynch yesterday?

On a lesser note, these two questions irk me, although it's hard to point out exactly why. Neither actually indicate Chelsea's alignment, and the second is somewhat misleading of Adel's plan D1.

This response irks me, but it is hard to point out exactly why.... WAIT no, it isn't hard. It is too vague and gut oriented, and doesn't have anything of substance to respond to.

Are you voting me because I didn't see Chelseafan complain of internet problems? Why do you think I am scum, again -- and the #1 candidate at that? If you are town we need your vote (on someone other than me!) to win.

[Shy Guy]

Intersting - Adel clears them, you say that's a distraction (which indicates Adel is scummy) and then say you want to vote the people Adel is clearing?

Scum can't bus each other, because lynching one kills all of them.

Scum can bus each other just as long as they don't LYNCH each other.

Considering that 40% of the game is made of scum at this juncture, it should not be hard to figure out which clump of four is the most likely to be trying to avoid each other.

This seems entirely misguided. If scum were nice enough to completely ignore each other this would be an easy win. It seems that scum would HAVE to attack each other to make it not obvious who their partners are.

Shy Guy, why would you try to push a lynch so quickly after my replacement? Do I make you nervous?

I don't care that you replaced in or who replaced, specifically. I think I've been led through hoops too much and distracted and that no one has really refuted my initial thoughts or made me believe they are untrue.

Please explain how Chelseafan's replacement reeks of "Frustrated scum":
A) She didn't ask for a replacement
B) "Chelseafan (although he did mention having computer issues so I'll cut him some slack) " - from the mod's last vote count
C) "We're getting nothing from chenhsi, this kinda seems the norm for him.
A replacement would be much better, but I suppose as long as he fulfills minimum posting this can't happen." - from CF's last post in the game, where she expressed frustration over her PARTNER'S LURKING...

I didn't remember seeing the internet problems things. I do remember him complaining multiple times about chenhsi and requesting that chenhsi be replaced and being very frustrated chenhsi lurked and kept looking scummy, just as you describe in point C.

None of those three things equivalate to "CF is frustrated scum replacing out because buddy sucked."

Without B, C sure equates to "CF is frustrated replacing out because buddy sucked". Why would you say otherwise?

[Skruffs]

So let me get this straight
Adel has put Two partners at the range of being quick lynched and is now trying to say they are the most likely scum pair because they haven't been quick lynched?

And Shy Guy is still railing on me and ignoring Adel?

For your third point, point C, I Would say that CF was very much more likely to be frustrated with her partner. However, I think that makes it very much less likely that they are scum. Please remember that CF was the first person to claim their partner other than Gimbo; as scum, if CCF did not like Chentsi, or did not like the way they posted, they would have picked a 'better' scum partner. Especially considering that both CF and chentsi are new, it doesn't make sense for the two newbies to grouped together, especially if the other two players were *not* new.
Scum would want each nebwbie to have an experienced player to help defend them, especially since the experienced players would be killed along with the newbs if any of them got lynched.

You're rather intentionally trying to distract attention away from Adel's antics.


Look at this:
Adel says that CF and CHentsi are cleared.
Shy guy says that it's awfully suspicious that Adel would clear them, therefroe they are more likely scum.

Adel then agrees with Shy Guy and votes one of the players. Does not strike ANYONE as a blatant scum gambit, the exact kind of thing that Adel does on a regular basis?? I just came from a "MetaMafia" game where I analyzed ADel's posts very closely (She was scum) and found a bussing tie between her and the last real mafia player. I got lynched anyways, because I am apparently not a very good salesman, but I totally got into ADel's head and I know how she works.

Adel is scum.


I would vote her right now but I want to let the rest of you process the connection between Shy GUy and Adel.

[forbiddanlight]

Adel then agrees with Shy Guy and votes one of the players. Does not strike ANYONE as a blatant scum gambit, the exact kind of thing that Adel does on a regular basis?? I just came from a "MetaMafia" game where I analyzed ADel's posts very closely (She was scum) and found a bussing tie between her and the last real mafia player. I got lynched anyways, because I am apparently not a very good salesman, but I totally got into ADel's head and I know how she works.

Link this game for me, please. I'd love to have more back up on my thoughts of Adel/SpyreX/Zeek/Harvey. Though, given armix's blantent defense of her, I'm rather willing to change my mind.

So, my scum listing stands (fl/shy guy/Zeek/Harvey). Most confident ShyGuy/fl is scum, small chance of FS/nameless beign scum IMO, but not large enough I wouldn't be comfortable voting Zeek/Harvey over Fl/ShyGuy to ensure a lynch on one of the 2 "groups".

As for most town, I would have to say Adel/SpyreX by far.

Soooo...why am I scum again?

[armlx]

It also seems that you have no reason at all to be suspicious of my partner, that you've stated. Is this correct?

fl's play has been neutral at best.

-Knight was frustrated with Gimbo's play.
-Knight thought Spryex and Gimbo were both suspicious and thought that lynching both of them was not a bad idea.
-I tried to make cases day 2 about day 1 actions while many other players either sat back and did nothing or tried to attack cases being made day 2.

I like how you twist my arguments to make them look like me attacking you for being pro-town here.

I read over chenhsi and tried to find where he pioneered mass claiming and pushed for it strongly, and couldn't

I suggest you read the part where he auto-claimed in response to Gimbo pushing the movement.

Skruffs, would you be willing to vote Shy Guy over Adel?

[armlx]

EBWODP: I also suggest that those who think chenhsi's behavior in response to attack was scummy read some of his other games and see if you still agree.

[forbiddanlight]

I suggest you read the part where he auto-claimed in response to Gimbo pushing the movement.

Skruffs, would you be willing to vote Shy Guy over Adel?

That's a false dichotomy and you know it. Give him some real options.

[armlx]

That's a false dichotomy and you know it. Give him some real options.

It is? Have you read his last post?

[Adel]

Adel then agrees with Shy Guy and votes one of the players. Does not strike ANYONE as a blatant scum gambit, the exact kind of thing that Adel does on a regular basis?? I just came from a "MetaMafia" game where I analyzed ADel's posts very closely (She was scum) and found a bussing tie between her and the last real mafia player. I got lynched anyways, because I am apparently not a very good salesman, but I totally got into ADel's head and I know how she works.

Link this game for me, please. I'd love to have more back up on my thoughts of Adel/SpyreX/Zeek/Harvey. Though, given armix's blantent defense of her, I'm rather willing to change my mind.

it is metabreaking mafia, look on my wikipage for a link. I was scum, and did a light bus of my partner day 1, later day 1 ABR tried his damnest to get me lynched (as he does in literally

every

game we play together) and ABR and I were both nightkilled night 1. Skruffy replaced in at the end of the game, and in LYLO had to argue that his unconfirmed mason partner (my scum partner that I bussed on day 1) was scum.

Becuase I was nightkilled night 1, and the interaction I had with ABR, my day 1 relationhip with surye(sp?) was pretty transparent. shaft.ed (the other surviving member of the town at endgame) ended up voting for Skruffs and losing the game for the town, in part because he has a lot more experience playing with me than Skruffs, and he didn't think Skruffs presented a convincing argument. Skruffs case against me was pretty accurate, but I think shaft.ed didn't buy that I was that transparent of a player.