Mini 649-Everything comes down to money(Game Over)

[Y.C]

/confirm

[Y.C]

Vote: Light-kun

Votes should be distributed equally.

[Y.C]

@riboflavin: you should explain your vote, rather than just vote for him.
In fact, why

were

you so quick to place a third vote for him?
When it only takes 5 to vote, this is very significant, especially so early, since it can be later overlooked when looking for the people responsible for a lynch.

Unvote Light-kun
FOS riboflavin

@Light-kun: you also placed a third vote. The reason given strikes me as odd. Do you think it is fair play on the part of scum to use a mod's mistake in his favour?

[Y.C]

Netlava, my remark was an attempt at humour, as part of the random votes phase.

But I do think that there is significance in a third vote when it takes 5 to lynch, since it allows scum to get a vote unnoticed amidst the other votes. In that way, in case of a townie-lynch, he (or she) goes under the radar. Obviously this could apply to other votes, it's just something worth remembering.

[Y.C]

@Mod: at your vote-count, you've mentioned both Riboflavin and me as lynched on next deadline.

[Y.C]

I've basically told

a group of mostly (teenage/20s) males on the internet

that they can't do something because it is bad. The natural reaction, obviously, is to ignore me and do it anyway. See posts 58, 65, etc.

Airhead, by introducing an issue irrelevant to any logical considerations, intended to either vent or steer away from the subject of discussion, you are making an "appeal to emotion". This is a major scum-tell, at least as I see it.

[Y.C]

My comment to Airhead was about manner of delivery and not content, less due to a feeling that she is scum, more since I see this kind of stereotyping, even if not said completely seriously, as bad practice in what is ideally a logical debate.
I allowed myself to assume that she is relatively new to mafia, this being her first game here, and maybe she is unaware of how it may appear to others. It grated my ear, so to speak, so I addressed it.

[Y.C]

Y.C., so you didn't find the comment scummy?

At the time, I didn't find Airhead's comment scummy in itself, I had more of a problem with her manner (i.e mentioning the other players gender/age).

However, after Airhead's reaction to my second post about her (no. 78) and Light-kun's analysis (no. 85), my suspicion-levels have risen.
Posts 81 and 84 reflect some anxiety. This could be due to Airhead's style of playing; nonetheless, it does give away a feeling of tension, a response of a novice to pressure.

FoS Airhead

[Y.C]

I wouldn't wagon Coron just yet for the slight chance of him being a jester.

On the other hand, I've never played with him, so he might use this kind of tactic to confuse both town AND mafia, meaning he is in a 3rd party faction of some sort.



Do any of you think there is more to this than just apathetic playing-style?

[Y.C]

lifeofpie is right. I think his tactic is intentionally lurking and not providing an explanation for that.
Now, there is a good chance that I'm wrong, since that is quite a rare role. But it's something to consider.


Airhead, why nervous you ask?
Because of posts such as these:

riboflavin could you please respond. thanks.

Impatience is a tell-tale, especially when your prior post was only 3 posts before that, which also raised some slight suspicion because of wording such as this:

What makes you ask me that.

The combination of both of these posts does not make you look sure of yourself. The FoS on you was a means of exacting pressure to get a decent explanation.
Can you explain the above posts?

[Y.C]

Artem, I do not think Coron's actions confuse the mafia, I merely said it's a

possibility

if he's 3rd party, like an SK or some Cult variation. Obviously, jester also fits that group.

By giving an assumption as clearly as one can, one rather clears suspicion off oneself. I believe in the broad interpretation of "lynch all liars", being especially wary of the use of any form of misdirection or withholding information. Naturally, I practice this as well.
By not stating these type of things for fear of being regarded scum, an advanced player may suspect something. One the other hand, being absolutely straight-forward regarding any thoughts I might have and sharing them with town, I am playing in what I believe to be the most pro-town fashion.

[Y.C]

I wouldn't wagon Coron just yet for the

slight chance

of him being a jester.

On the other hand, I've never played with him, so he might use this kind of tactic to confuse both town AND mafia, meaning he is in a 3rd party faction of some sort.



Do any of you think there is more to this than just apathetic playing-style?

This is the first post where I mentined this possibility. I bolded the important part. Even then, I was merely throwing it out there.

[Y.C]

Allright, could you then answer this question:

Do you think that the slight chance of Coron being a jester was a good reason not to vote him while he was at l-4?

Please answer with 'yes' or 'no' and a short explanation.

Yes, since my playing style is such that I use my vote, which I consider an important move that carries more weight than just putting pressure on another player, rather sparingly.
This has the added benefit of transparency, since after each day it is much easier to see whom I had voted for, not giving me an opportunity to use flippancy of voting as a cover-up.

maybe covering up for ur partner y.c?

I cannot address this, since other than accusing me of being scum there is no real argument in this post that I can logically counter at this point.
Meaning, the only way to determine such a theory is by lynching either Coron or me.
What I

can

say is that I find Coron's behaviour very strange. Strange enough to lynch him if he does not respond to the various points raised in the last few pages.

YC, what justification do you have that impatience is a "tell-tale" scum tell. I'm very impatient and I am not scum. Even so, how is it a bad thing to try and get riboflavin to answer my question when he has posted since I asked and completely ignored it. I find his ignoring it suspicious and I want to know the answer so I can proceed with figuring out who I find most suspicious.

As for asking lifeofpie why he asked me a question -- obviously I wanted to know why he asked me the question. Did he have good reason for thinking I was trying to bring suspicion upon myself, or was he just trying to implicate me. That sort of thing tells us the motives of a player and would be helpful in scum hunting.

YC it seems you are calling me impatient for aggressively scum hunting.

I agree with Netlava that YC seems to be back-tracking from his initial claim that I looked super scummy because of that comment; now it is just "something he was pointing out".

Post no. 70, the first one where I commented on your remark, looks like this:

I've basically told

a group of mostly (teenage/20s) males on the internet

that they can't do something because it is bad. The natural reaction, obviously, is to ignore me and do it anyway. See posts 58, 65, etc.

Airhead, by introducing an issue irrelevant to any logical considerations, intended to either vent or steer away from the subject of discussion, you are making an "appeal to emotion". This is a major scum-tell, at least as I see it.

Notice I refrained from either FoS'ing or voting you in the above, since it was not a direct accusation, but rather a criticism of the age/gender reference itself.
By introducing such a personal element into the game, an emotional rather than logical element enters the game, since most players fall under that demographic. Since it has such a potential it is better to avoid it altogether.
Since that post, I FoS'ed you only when I noticed what seemed like sings of nervousness, a typical reaction of a novice player to accusation.
Since I am unfamiliar with your personal history and the only information available to me is the one on the forum, I assume there is at least a good chance you are just that - a novice player.

[Y.C]

sirdanilot, see post 112, in which I state my future policy regarding Coron:

What I

can

say is that I find Coron's behaviour very strange. Strange enough to lynch him if he does not respond to the various points raised in the last few pages.

And since we haven't heard anything from him this discussion began, I'll address him directly: Coron, if you don't answer to town allegations within the next 24 hours, I'm voting you, bringing your vote count to 3, meaning a lynch at deadline.

[Y.C]

The argument of lurking due to unfamiliarity with the other players is a moot point, since a lot of people here can claim the same thing, people who have much less experience than you in playing mafia (and I'm no exception).

Vote Coron

[Y.C]

Artem, I've never played a game with a jester before, so the mechanics are not 100% clear with me. That was the reason for my statement.

Regarding the point you made, Coron playing as a jester to avoid being lynched, is interesting. Whatever his motives are, his playing style clearly means he is not pro-town. So I think you should hammer if there are no major developments soon.

[Y.C]

Coron, your last two posts give a clear indication of a problem which might be bigger than the whole "jester-yes or no?" debate.


You are just not interested in the game.

I'll try to read the thread cleanly sometime tonight, but no promises, I might end up watching a movie or catalouging my previous games. I'm easily distracted by shiny things.

Personally, I find this comment more than suspicious. It is down right insulting. You don't want to participate? You're "easily distracted by shiny things"?
Ask to be replaced. You are bringing the game to a halt and if nothing else, annoying the hell out of me.
I would expect more dedication to an on-going game of someone who has been here for so long as you have, even with "players with which you don't have a history".
Your last post, filled with snarky one-liners, does not count as content.

Just to make it clear: either get replaced, or start playing.