Mini 611 - Troy, Meet Helen (Game Over)

[charter]

Amazing

[camn]

Like that, for example.

Not incredible helpful... but do scum act this way?
No, I don't think so.

c

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm worried about camn condemning charter and now deciding that he's crazed town.

[Farkshinsoup]

Not incredible helpful... but do scum act this way?
No, I don't think so.

I don't buy this. Scum act all kinds of ways. They even act differently in different games. It's a null-tell.

[charter]

I'm worried about camn condemning charter and now deciding that he's crazed town.

I'm worried about LG throwing suspicion onto camn when it's clear my wagon is disbanding.

[Tinsley]

Take a look at how the voting shaped up before Fark changed his vote from charter to me:

Voting Walnut 2 (charter, Macavenger)

Both adamantly pushing Walnut's lynch.

Voting Farkshinsoup 1 (Thesp)

Doesn't see a case against charter, but is willing to lynch Fark or myself.

Not Voting:

ShadowGirl - V/LA until 8/8.
Myself - Starting to have doubts about either bandwagon.
CF Riot - Going to do a reread and then decide between charter and Walnut

charter 4 (Walnut, Farkshinsoup, camn, Lord Gurgi)

I think Fark decided he didn't quite have enough votes to lynch charter, so he decided to start a Tinsley bandwagon to appeal to Thesp. If he could get Thesp to vote with him, then he just needed two more non-scumbuddy votes.

Vote: Farkshinsoup

[Farkshinsoup]

I think Fark decided he didn't quite have enough votes to lynch charter, so he decided to start a Tinsley bandwagon to appeal to Thesp. If he could get Thesp to vote with him, then he just needed two more non-scumbuddy votes.

Vote: Farkshinsoup

This is a thinly veiled OMGUS vote. You even conceded that I made some good points in your last post, but now the reason I attacked you was because I decided that you were the easy lynch today?

Yes, what a good play. I decided to get Thesp on my side, despite the fact that he's got me pegged as his top scum candidate, and so I took my vote off of the guy with 4 votes already and parked on the guy with no votes. After Thesp, and my 2 scum buddies, who will, of course follow me slavishly, I just need to convince 2 more innocent townies! Simplicity itself! Also, I craftily used compelling arguments.

The reason I switched my vote is that to me, you are clearly the most scummy player here.

[Tinsley]

This is a thinly veiled OMGUS vote..

I understood it would look that way when I made the vote, but I feel confident, so I stand by it.

Yes, what a good play. I decided to get Thesp on my side, despite the fact that he's got me pegged as his top scum candidate...

But he's fine with lynching me too.

and so I took my vote off of the guy with 4 votes already and parked on the guy with no votes.

Here's the key to my argument. While charter had four votes on him, you thought you couldn't secure the final two votes necessary to lynch him, so you decided to make a case on someone who could. charter was tempted to vote me at the beginning of D2, so I think you thought it was possible to sway him.

You even conceded that I made some good points in your last post

Also, I craftily used compelling arguments.

I said you made one fair (not good) point, because you speculated that I knew Netlava was a townie, and I had made the same speculation about charter. I didn't think it was enough to vote him though.

[Farkshinsoup]

Here's the key to my argument. While charter had four votes on him, you thought you couldn't secure the final two votes necessary to lynch him, so you decided to make a case on someone who could. charter was tempted to vote me at the beginning of D2, so I think you thought it was possible to sway him.

Just so that we're clear here, aside from Thesp, who were my 2 scum buddies that would jump on your wagon? And who is the other townie (aside from charter) that I was counting on winning over?

[Macavenger]

Wow, apparently I have vast powers of dispersing bandwagons. Useful to know for the future.

Let's test if it works in reverse:

FoS: everyone not voting Walnut

Get voting guys!

On a more serious vote, I'm rapidly becoming convinced fark is probably a Walnut buddy. I still support a Walnut lynch first, but I don't have any major disagreement with the developing farkwagon. I don't see Tinsley's fark vote as being any bad kind of OMGUS, and still have a mostly town read on him.

[camn]

So .. I read all of Walnut's posts..

and I see that he has been on his heels almost this whole game. So Obviously he looks defensive. But I don't get a scummy feeling from him.

So I hold onto my vote for now. But I won't stand in you'alls way!

c

[Mizzy]

Vote Count:

Walnut 3 (charter, Macavenger, CF Riot)
Farkshinsoup 1 (Thesp, Tinsley)
charter 2 (Walnut, Lord Gurgi)
Tinsley 1 (Farkshinsoup)

Not Voting:

ShadowGirl, camn

10 Alive = 6 to lynch!

Fixed, I suck, sorry

[charter]

Fark has two votes, you put him on there twice.

Like I said before, I've no problem switching from Walnut to Fark or LG.

Also, when should we decide what to do with camn? I don't think we can give her a free ticket through the rest of the game, especially when she's not doing a stellar job at scumhunting.

[camn]

Go ahead.

You want to lessen our odds in the endgame, be my guest.

AS it stands, nobody has lynched any scum... . so your judgment may or may not be accurate.

[Farkshinsoup]

charter, you suspect a lot of people. Can I ask you who your top townie is and why?

[Walnut]

Amazing, as Charter said.

@CFRiot: You have rehashed a lot of what Charter and Macavenger have said and I have answered already, along with a some oversimplification. You have added some interesting bits too:

I thought this was scummy to begin with, and now with my 20/20 hindsight I think even more so.

Congratulations on getting to the end of the game and having 20/20 hindsight while the rest of us are still plodding through Day 2!

218: Preliminary disclaimer to lynching Netlava. Takes a very neutral stance saying, "Netlava's play is scummy enough to make you all lynch him, but he might not be scum. I don't know which he is." This is obv fence sitting.

I don't buy the whole "quit stalling, take a guess and vote for someone" approach. What do you get? Dead people, who may or may not be townies. Yes, there is clearly a law of diminishing returns, but it should be an educated guess, not just a total stab in the dark. I am happy with Day 1, and it has provided a lot of useful information for Day 2.

Walnut doesn't have a defense for his own actions, just attacks against his attackers.

There is a lot of Day 1 spent with me answering questions and explaining actions. While I expressed surprise at being continually pressed when I had already refuted the arguments, I did not "attack my attackers" until Charter started Day 2 with some obviously scummy play, as noted in your own read on Charter:

He does some

very scummy

things, but none of them seem to be working towards any sinister goal of mislynching someone or defending himself unjustly.
And I noticed as I went through looking for scum tells, a lot of his cases are presented very poorly, but do make sense if you interpret them a bit.

As with your reread knowing Netlava was town, would you consider his "very scummy" play sinister if I was lynched and came up town? Out of curiosity, how do you defend yourself unjustly?

[Walnut]

Double post ("submit" instead of "preview":()

CF- I think your characterization of Charter is incredibly accurate.

I think his responses, especially to me, have been very angry and aggressive.. definitely not helpful... but also not manipulative, like I expect from the Mafia.

Thus, I

Unvote : charter

Plus.. talking to him was starting to stress me out.
totally not worth the effort..

I will read on Walnut again now.

c

Angry and aggressive is just another form of manipulation. If he makes talking with him unpleasant, and you stop voting for him, he has manipulated you. It seems to be working, as right now people seem to be saying that Charter is playing too badly to be scum. Camn and CFRiot have said Charter is "angry and aggressive", "very scummy" and "definitely not helpful"- and are not voting for him. As Charter said, amazing.

[charter]

charter, you suspect a lot of people. Can I ask you who your top townie is and why?

Looking for someone to kill off tonight? There is absolutely no reason you need to know this, but I know that I have no choice but to answer all questions directed at me. It's been Riot for quite some time. I only suspect three people, I think I made that pretty clear in my post 567, not the "lot of people" you put in my mouth.

[Farkshinsoup]

Looking for someone to kill off tonight?

Yes, charter, you've caught me. Damn, how did I think that I would ever have a chance of pulling off my scum plans with you and Tinsley around?:roll:

Angry and aggressive is just another form of manipulation. If he makes talking with him unpleasant, and you stop voting for him, he has manipulated you. It seems to be working, as right now people seem to be saying that Charter is playing too badly to be scum.

QFT. As I've stated, I still think charter is scum, and I would be happy to lynch him today if my diabolical plan to get Tinsley lynched doesn't pan out for some unfathomable reason.

So I'd like to point out that Shadowgirl has started her vacation and will be gone for 2 weeks, without voting for anyone or contributing any opinions. We may have to take her out of the equation for Day 2. We'll see how long it lasts. It's possible that we won't have gotten around to lynching Tinsley by the time she gets back.

[Mizzy]

About ShadowGirl, I will wait 1 week to see if she is able to get access from where she will be, but if she hasn't posted by then, she will be replaced.

[charter]

I'm pretty sharp. You need to get up earlier than that to pull a fast one on me Fark.

[Farkshinsoup]

I don't buy it. Your vote put Walnut at L-3 at a time that Netlava appeared to be at L-1. There was no way that things were going to get "evened out" and you knew it. I also don't believe that Walnut was the scummier of the 2 at that time to someone who was trying to choose between the 2.

This is all your opinion here. I voted for who I thought was scummier of the two. I didn't want to let my vote go to waste.

But your vote did go to waste. That's the whole point of my argument. Clearly you knew that it wasn't going to get Walnut lynched, so the only reason to put it there was to be able to point at it on Day 2.

The fact that you made a point of calling out everyone who voted Netlava in post 477 only bolsters my argument:

I really think it was the mafia’s plan all along to make Netlava the target on D1 because of his play style. While all members of the scum team may not have voted Netlava, I feel confident that one or two did.

Voted Netlava - CFR, Walnut, LG, Batt, camn, Farkshinsoup, Netlava (Thesp did, but forgot to unvote, Macavenger was willing to)

[Tinsley]

Just so that we're clear here, aside from Thesp, who were my 2 scum buddies that would jump on your wagon? And who is the other townie (aside from charter) that I was counting on winning over?

Well I don't think Mac was about to jump on a wagon that you and Walnut were on, so I don't think he was going to vote me. But we all know Thesp would like to see me lynched. And if you are indeed scum, then I'm pretty sure LG is your scumbuddy. I'm starting to think that Walnut is your other buddy since you're so desperate to get someone other than him lynched.

Charter said at the start of D2 that he was tempted to vote me, so I think you were hoping to persuade him to vote me. With ShadowGirl MIA (you seem very more agitated than anyone else by her absence) that would have left just CF Riot or camn to drop the hammer (unless I was dumb enough to drop the hammer on myself ), and at the time you didn't know where CF Riot stood on Walnut, so you may have thought you could persuade him as well.

The key point is I think you believed you could get five fairly easy votes on me (Yourself, your scumbuddies, Thesp, and charter) when a charter lynch was looking like it wouldn't happen.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm pretty sharp. You need to get up earlier than that to pull a fast one on me Fark.

I'm well aware of your sharpitude. Part of my suspicion of you is based on your play in Cop Central. You don't seem as sharp here in this game. You are much more defensive and sarcastic.

I haven't forgotten how you won that game for town. So I promise that when we lynch you, I'll make it quick.

[Tinsley]

But your vote did go to waste. That's the whole point of my argument. Clearly you knew that it wasn't going to get Walnut lynched, so the only reason to put it there was to be able to point at it on Day 2.

You're right, I'm sorry, I should have voted for someone I didn't find scummy.

The fact that you made a point of calling out everyone who voted Netlava in post 477 only bolsters my argument

Uh...I called out nearly everyone in that post. I was trying to keep an open mind, and generate some discussion.