Mini 611 - Troy, Meet Helen (Game Over)


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Post Post #550 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:15 pm

Post by camn »

charter wrote: I don't know if you actually think I'm scummy, or you're just looking for the easy bandwagon.
I don't want an easy wagon.

I want pressure on you. I want meaningful answers to people's questions. I want decent dialogue in general.

That said...

Are you REALLY saying post 476 was a "condensed case" against Walnut? To me, it just looks INCREDIBLY unhelpful. Basically just throwing old posts back in Fark's face. A lot of it wasn't about Walnut at all.
maybe you had a good reason for that barrage...... but it doesn't seem helpful from where I am sitting.

And the wishy-washiness comes again...
I think I might actually be ok with a Fark lynch if anyone else but thesp thinks he's scummy, or an LG lynch
So.. do you or don't you think Fark and LG are scummy?

c



And PS.. my reasoning very well may be off this week. I am totally under the influence!
"if you weren't trying to be so unnecessarily mysterious all the time we wouldn't have these misunderstandings" - Yosarian2
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Post Post #551 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:34 pm

Post by charter »

It was more condensed than my case day one where I spent pretty much the whole time after the deadline was announced gunning for Walnut.

You didn't respond to my original questioning of how I'm wishy washy. I threw that in my last post to see if you'd jump on me for it. I've stated numerous times that I find LG scummy, in fact, I believe it was even in the four posts I quoted for fark.

I wasn't aware that I was supposed to be helping you with that post. In fact I don't see the point of needing to do it all. I would have assumed Fark did a reread when he replaced and he would have seen my posts. I could have summed up the reason to vote Walnut in one sentence, but that's not going to convince anyone if I don't cite examples, which I did in the quoted posts.
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Post Post #552 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:44 pm

Post by Macavenger »

Walnut wrote:Apparently the clear choice is Charter. Do you still favor the quick Day 2?
Actually the clear choice is still you. The charter wagon in general is absurdly scummy, and I'm forced to assume you've got at least one if not both of your buddies on it trying to deflect from you at this point.
Lord Gurgi wrote:It seemed scummy to me because it is a resigned way of saying, 'Screw this, there's nothing I can do, why do I even bother.' That is in no way pro-town. Neither is self-hammering.
I fail to see any connection between that kind of statement and self hammering. I didn't even see it as "giving up," more just noting the growing wagon. I'm finding the people trying to use that as evidence that charter is scum highly suspect.
charter wrote:Jeez, Mac is like my knight in shining armor haha.
I try not to ignore really scummy arguments, as a general rule. Most of the ones being made about you right now are.

The charter wagon is very blatantly scumpowered and seriously needs to be disbanded ASAP. Walnut started it, so there's one scum on the wagon immediately. Ironically, he's actually made the best case of anyone on the wagon - everyone else is pretty much just jumping on. fark's reasoning is quite poor, and is starting to make me agree with Thesp's assessment. LG hasn't even posted a case, just hopped on the wagon very blatantly. camn is for some reason still on the wagon even though I just shot her case apart, and she agreed with my counterpoints? Seriously, what's going on here?
FoS: entire charter wagon
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Post Post #553 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:48 pm

Post by charter »

Macavenger wrote:The charter wagon is very blatantly scumpowered and seriously needs to be disbanded ASAP. Walnut started it, so there's one scum on the wagon immediately. Ironically, he's actually made the best case of anyone on the wagon - everyone else is pretty much just jumping on. fark's reasoning is quite poor, and is starting to make me agree with Thesp's assessment. LG hasn't even posted a case, just hopped on the wagon very blatantly. camn is for some reason still on the wagon even though I just shot her case apart, and she agreed with my counterpoints? Seriously, what's going on here?
FoS: entire charter wagon
This is exactly what I wanted to say, but I couldn't cause two more people would jump on me for OMGUSing.
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Post Post #554 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:31 pm

Post by Walnut »

I could have summed up the reason to vote Walnut in one sentence, but that's not going to convince anyone if I don't cite examples, which I did in the quoted posts.
It didn't convince anyone, even when you did cite examples. When I defended myself and pointed out why your examples were not valid, you said that was just answering individual points and that the general argument still held.
Thesp wrote: I don't understand the need to wait. We're getting plenty of info already, and at some point, we need to just do it and lynch some poor sucker. If we keep waiting and waiting for "more info", eventually we get deadlined and do a rush job of things. Let's suppose we force it now, and Walnut makes a mason claim, or something equally clearable. Where do we go from there? If we've spent the whole day piddling around, not only is there a whole mess of posts to wade through, but time may be against us (and undoubtedly scum will exploit that). There's already plenty to draw insight from. Stop stalling us and vote for someone.
Substitute Charter, as he is the leading candidate right now (although not on your list of suspects)- are you prepared to vote for him?
Reading your signature makes me feel guilty and helpless.
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Post Post #555 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:41 pm

Post by charter »

Walnut is scum because he misdirects the town rather than scumhunting.
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Post Post #556 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:42 pm

Post by camn »

charter wrote: You didn't respond to my original questioning of how I'm wishy washy. I threw that in my last post to see if you'd jump on me for it.
So.. was it, like, a trick? Is that how you play... by writing things that are intentionally confusing in order to trick people? What exactly was the point of writing this?
charter wrote:I wasn't aware that I was supposed to be helping you with that post.
It's not about helping me IN PARTICULAR.. but helping the town as a whole actually see your points.
The fact that you weren't trying to help was very obvious. And is why my vote is still on you.

I want to see you as town.. but your tone is so unhelpful it is hard for me to do that. Why are you so angry ? :)


Mac.. my vote on charter came from a fresh re-read. .and It stays on because I still don't understand his play. Your points seemed valid, but then charter came back and threw it into question again. So I probe for more information. And besides, Best way to find the buddies is with a wagon :)

c
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Post Post #557 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:44 pm

Post by Farkshinsoup »

charter wrote:I wasn't aware that I was supposed to be helping you with that post. In fact I don't see the point of needing to do it all. I would have assumed Fark did a reread when he replaced and he would have seen my posts. I could have summed up the reason to vote Walnut in one sentence, but that's not going to convince anyone if I don't cite examples, which I did in the quoted posts.
I asked you for that summary because I was curious to see what you would say, how you would summarize it. I'm not sure that it's a scum tell that you just pasted all those quotes in, but I think that your posts in general have had a lot of quantity, and not so much quality. Let me say this, that post did not convince me that Walnut is scum.

I acknowledge that the case I laid out against you was on the thin side. I'm not going to win any scummies for my scum hunting. If there was a case on anyone (including Walnut) that I thought was really airtight, I'd be on that wagon right now.

That having been said, the speed with which the wagon on you grew after my vote has me somewhat alarmed. I'm keeping my eye on it.
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Post Post #558 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:50 pm

Post by camn »

I too think it has grown too quickly... but I like the discussion we are getting out of it.
"if you weren't trying to be so unnecessarily mysterious all the time we wouldn't have these misunderstandings" - Yosarian2
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Post Post #559 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:56 pm

Post by charter »

camn wrote:
charter wrote: You didn't respond to my original questioning of how I'm wishy washy. I threw that in my last post to see if you'd jump on me for it.
So.. was it, like, a trick? Is that how you play... by writing things that are intentionally confusing in order to trick people? What exactly was the point of writing this?
Still dodging? It was to see how defensive you were going to be. There was no reason not to answer my question, but you keep refusing to.
charter wrote:I wasn't aware that I was supposed to be helping you with that post.
It's not about helping me IN PARTICULAR.. but helping the town as a whole actually see your points.
The fact that you weren't trying to help was very obvious. And is why my vote is still on you.

I want to see you as town.. but your tone is so unhelpful it is hard for me to do that. Why are you so angry ? :)[/quote]

I think I figured out your case against me. I answered Fark's question, but not in the manner most helpful to the town, so therefore I am scum.

camn wrote:And besides, Best way to find the buddies is with a wagon :)

c
Yes, you've found a buddy of the town, Mac.
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Post Post #560 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:58 pm

Post by Tinsley »

Thesp wrote:
Stop stalling us and vote for someone.
Right, even though I'm still unsure between Walnut and charter, I should vote just because one of the players I find scummiest told me to. :roll:
Thesp wrote:I just reviewed Walnut's posts, and I'm not wild about his proposed lynch.
What made you change your mind on Walnut? I'm still waiting to hear:

1) Your case on me.
2) Whether the fact you forgot to unvote CF Riot before voting Netlava was intentional.
3) Your answer to charter's question on how you're so sure that SG is town.

As for Walnut vs. charter:

I went back and read Walnut's posts last game and found more of the same of what he's done this game (for example check out "Scumhunting for Dummies" post 118.) This made me lean towards charter, however, I don't like how quickly the bandwagon on him formed. I don't think Fark's case is that weak, but I do think LG deserves more scrutiny. It was a prime opportunity to jump on the charter bandwagon since the general (incorrect) concensus was that charter only had one vote at the time.
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Post Post #561 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:58 pm

Post by Tinsley »

Thesp wrote:
Stop stalling us and vote for someone.
Right, even though I'm still unsure between Walnut and charter, I should vote just because one of the players I find scummiest told me to. :roll:
Thesp wrote:I just reviewed Walnut's posts, and I'm not wild about his proposed lynch.
What made you change your mind on Walnut? I'm still waiting to hear:

1) Your case on me.
2) Whether the fact you forgot to unvote CF Riot before voting Netlava was intentional.
3) Your answer to charter's question on how you're so sure that SG is town.

As for Walnut vs. charter:

I went back and read Walnut's posts last game and found more of the same of what he's done this game (for example check out "Scumhunting for Dummies" post 118.) This made me lean towards charter, however, I don't like how quickly the bandwagon on him formed. I don't think Fark's case is that weak, but I do think LG deserves more scrutiny. It was a prime opportunity to jump on the charter bandwagon since the general (incorrect) concensus was that charter only had one vote at the time.
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Post Post #562 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:00 pm

Post by charter »

Did you go back and read my posts from last game when I was scum?
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Post Post #563 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:02 am

Post by Thesp »

Tinsley wrote:
Thesp wrote:
Stop stalling us and vote for someone.
Right, even though I'm still unsure between Walnut and charter, I should vote just because one of the players I find scummiest told me to. :roll:
You should get around to making your mind up somewhat fast, take a guess, and quit stalling.
Tinsley wrote:
Thesp wrote:I just reviewed Walnut's posts, and I'm not wild about his proposed lynch.
What made you change your mind on Walnut? I'm still waiting to hear:

1) Your case on me.
2) Whether the fact you forgot to unvote CF Riot before voting Netlava was intentional.
3) Your answer to charter's question on how you're so sure that SG is town.
1) I love how eager you are to defend yourself. You need to die posthaste.
2) Nope, accidental. (Why in the world is this important?)
3) She feels so very pro-town in her posts. I'm not going to explain everything I feel because I'm curious to see how others process these thoughts as well.

What do you think of farkshinsoup? (Forgive me if I've asked before, I do not recall your answer.)
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Post Post #564 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:04 am

Post by Thesp »

Farkshinsoup wrote:I acknowledge that the case I laid out against you was on the thin side. I'm not going to win any scummies for my scum hunting. If there was a case on anyone (including Walnut) that I thought was really airtight, I'd be on that wagon right now.

That having been said, the speed with which the wagon on you grew after my vote has me somewhat alarmed. I'm keeping my eye on it.
Good job keeping suspicion thrown out on everyone. (Since bashing the charter wagon has become en vogue, it seems natural you'd want a piece of that action as well.)
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Post Post #565 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:54 am

Post by Tinsley »

charter wrote:Did you go back and read my posts from last game when I was scum?
I did earlier in the game, and I noticed you haven't been as defensive as you were in the trainwrecked one (as scum.)
Thesp wrote:1) I love how eager you are to defend yourself. You need to die posthaste.
I'm just pointing out that since you've joined the game, you've been pointing fingers at myself and Fark without trying to build a case. If you're going to accuse Fark/farside for that reason, it's only right that we look at you for the same reason.
Thesp wrote:2) Nope, accidental. (Why in the world is this important?)
Because when I first realized you did that I thought maybe you were trying to see who would put Netlava at L-1 thinking that they dropped the hammer. But when D2 started, you still thought you had voted Netlava (post 500), did you not read the posts at the end of D1?

Regarding Fark/farside - Farside didn't post frequently, but as others have stated, she didn't appear to have time for the game. This makes sense seeing as she asked for replacement. Fark did make a case on charter and was only the second on his bandwagon. I don't think Fark's case was as bad as some make it out to be.

What do you think of Lord Gurgi? You never responded to to my question about Walnut.
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Post Post #566 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:25 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

Ok, so after doing a reread of the Walnut case I'm going to
Unvote


I still don't see the case against Walnut. I read his posts from the trainwrecked game, (where he was town) and his play style here seems the same to me. And since the main knock against him is that his style of play seems scummy, I won't lynch him unless something else comes up.

Back on Day 1, Thesp replaces in and says this:
Thesp wrote:Netlava, Tinsley & farside22 are scum. My apologies to the rest of you for ruining this game by discovering the scum already, I'm sure you would have had loads of fun figuring it out for yourselves while they picked you off one by one.
Then a few posts later, he votes netlava. As it turns out, the vote did not count because he had not unvoted. (I think it's safe to say that we all thought that this vote put Netlava at L-1)

Tinsley's next post is what caught my eye. If you entertain the idea that he is scum, imagine what's going through his head. A guy has just replaced into the game who has "Paragon of Mafia Hunters" next to his name. This guy has accused him of being scum. Also, it seems that the innocent townie is about to be lynched, with or without his vote. So here's what he posts:
Tinsley wrote:
charter wrote:You not living past night one has NOTHING to do with this game. Period. There's no reason to throw that out there.
Exactly. Walnut you continue to post useless content. I understand you defending yourself, but overall your posts have done little to help find scum. In regards to setup speculation, I don't believe you were directly asked questions, and instead of ignoring the questions, you answered them, distracting the town further.

Because Netlava is so close to a lynch:

Vote: Walnut

camn wrote:Netlava and Hadfanhg seem suspect to me, but I am getting the strong read off them that they just play Suspect. But I will watch them.
camn wrote:I think Batt is scummier....
camn - We still have over a week before the deadline, why do you feel the need to vote now? If you're not certain on Netlava, I don't think you should vote him yet. I agree that Battousai is scummier, and would be willing to vote him if we can get enough people to choose him over Netlava.
Thesp wrote:
Tinsley pops up when his name is called
, and rarely otherwise.
Thesp - Welcome to the game. I'll admit that I don't post nearly as frequently as others do here, but I've also been busy, and as I believe farside said, the frequency of posts in this game is high and difficult to keep up with. Can you provide examples of me popping up when my name is called? Can you also give us reasons why you're voting Netlava?
He votes Walnut, a vote that looks pretty useless at that point, put there more so that he can not be on the erroneous Netlava wagon. Also notice how sure he is that Net is town, and how he's willing to lynch Batt instead (there was no way that was going to happen either)
Tinsley wrote:
Walnut wrote:
Tinsley wrote:Because Netlava is so close to a lynch:

Vote: Walnut
That is a truly weird reason for voting.
Seeing as you and Netlava were the two leading candidates, and I felt you were scummier, I voted you in hopes of evening things up. Unfortunately it looks like my vote won't make a difference.
I don't buy it. Your vote put Walnut at L-3 at a time that Netlava appeared to be at L-1. There was no way that things were going to get "evened out" and you knew it. I also don't believe that Walnut was the scummier of the 2 at that time to someone who was trying to choose between the 2.
Tinsley wrote:Wow, I'm surprised to see Batt killed as he was one of my top suspects. However, I think there's a legitimate reason to suspect nearly anyone right now (I'm hoping to list those reasons later when I have more time to post.)

Does anyone have any ideas on why Batt was chosen last night?
Comes right out of N1 with this big pile of WIFOM speculation. Also, here he does something that I've seen in other posts, namely putting questions out to everyone, which looks like it's supposed to spark discussion, but is mostly just useless. This question is particularly useless, as it concerns speculation on who would want to kill Batt last night.

Tinsley is the lynch today, not Walnut and not Charter.

Vote: Tinsley
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Post Post #567 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:49 am

Post by charter »

Yeah, Fark seems scummier with each post he makes. Why would rereading the Walnut case make me less scummy? He gets called out for putting up a crap case against me, so he moves on to the person he thinks is the next easiest to get lynched (that isn't his scumbuddy known as walnut), Tinsley. There's plenty of stuff you could have brought up against me, but you just gave up. Not to mention your latest contradiction you use as evidence agaisnt Tinsley. I just reread LG's posts, and he did the exact same thing yesterday to Netlava. He seemed quite sure I was scum, but once the Netlava train starting moving and mine slowed down, he jumped right on.

My LoS:
1 - Walnut, LG, Fark
2 -
3 -
I'm pretty sure those are the three scum with about equal certainty, it doesn't matter to me which one gets lynched today.

Fark gives no reason for unvoting me, but does so after myself and Mac say the case on me is crap. There also seems to be a lot of trying to appeal to Thesp from Fark.
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Post Post #568 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:57 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

Just to be clear, charter, you are still number 2 on my scum list, but I saw this case against Tinsley and it seemed stronger to me. My whole reason for unvoting you is my case against him. That seemed clear to me. Why don't you comment on the case I made against him instead of just dismissing me as scum?

We can lynch you tomorrow if that makes you feel better.

And I'm sorry - what contradiction do i use as evidence against Tinsley? I don't understand this point.
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Post Post #569 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:16 am

Post by charter »

Your saying Tinsley puts forth stuff that's mostly useless but don't see why people are voting Walnut right after doing a reread of him. Not to mention how you wait until AFTER you get called out for voting me, but all your reasons for voting Tinsley aren't very recent.

I don't need to comment on your case against Tinsley, you're scum for reasons other than poor cases against people.
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Post Post #570 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:26 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

Did you read my post, charter? It's totallly disingenuous to characterize my case against him as "Tinsley puts forth stuff that's mostly useless." Most of my case has to do with his highly suspicious voting on D1. You've conveniently ignored that. I also point out some very useless stuff he said off the top of D2, but that is a minor point in my suspicion of him.

As for the timing of my case, I only now had the time to get back and do the reread. You accused Had of this same thing on D1, not making the case fast enough after comments were made. Sometimes, when I do a reread with a different emphasis on posts, things become apparent that were not before. I don't see how this is scummy.
charter wrote:I don't need to comment on your case against Tinsley, you're scum for reasons other than poor cases against people.
That's pretty convenient. What are THOSE reasons again?
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Post Post #571 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:06 am

Post by CF Riot »

Ok done. This is going to be a double post for clarity. I started a reread of Walnut and Charter as they are the leading wagons today and the way they're squaring off against each other makes me think they're not both scum. They very possibly could be busing since they both had a suspicious D1 but in case they aren't, I want to lynch the right one. Walnut goes first.

The first few pages of the game Walnut doesn't post much content. This horse has been beaten to death but the majority of it is game speculation. A lot of people saw this as an attempt to distract town, I personally think it's merely staying active without drawing attention. Still scummy either way.
----
[This info comes from page 4, I suggest you all take a look.]
When the Hadhfang wagon started it was based on a valid scummy move. The scenario was Charter was speculating, and Had dismissed it at first then later used it as his excuse to vote Charter. Charter picked up on it, Netlava picked up on it, and Mac picked up on it in that order. During this time Walnut hadn't made any FoS's, votes, no real hint at who was scummy to him. I pointed that out and asked Walnut in post 80 who his suspects were. Once questioned he too points to Had's vote, and questions him, but it should be noted that he'd already been questioned by the people already mentioned. After Had made it to 4 votes, Walnut votes him putting him at L-2. I read this one of three ways.
1) He's wagon jumping under the cover of a valid tell.
2) He is scum partners with Had(Thesp) and joining the wagon so as not to look suspicious for ignoring a valid tell.
3) He is town and using a valid tell for his vote, but rather late and in a dangerous spot on the vote count.
I think 3 is least likely.
----
Post 137 he suggests lynching BB(Camn) who soft claimed some out of the ordinary role. I thought this was scummy to begin with, and now with my 20/20 hindsight I think even more so. His reason was distracting the town, then later it changed to lack of dedication to the game. That makes this point a double scum tell for wanting to lynch hinted power roles and changing the reason for the vote to fit his needs.
----
Post 145: "I'm okay with lynching BB" turns to "BB's guilt is a 6/10".
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218: Preliminary disclaimer to lynching Netlava. Takes a very neutral stance saying, "Netlava's play is scummy enough to make you all lynch him, but he might not be scum. I don't know which he is." This is obv fence sitting.

248 is more of the same. "He's looking scummier, but if he's town I told you so." Doesn't say I think he's scum, doesn't say I think he's town. Steadfastly stays neutral. Happens again in 273.
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Walnut starts to pick up some heat for his play. He is the leading wagon over Netlava with 4 votes for a time. He them makes post 327 being tied at 3 with Netlava. It is the first time in the game Walnut tells who he's suspicious of. #1 is Hadhfang who he doesn't want to lynch, and #2 is Netlava, and he still gives a disclaimer: "as indicated earlier, I am trying to get my head around what is scummy and what is Netlava's default behaviour, but my tendency is getting stronger." He does not vote.
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Mizzy declares approaching deadline, Walnut votes Netlava. Doesn't say why other than "As stated before, he is my top candidate for today." 341 is the post.
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D2 Walnut comes out (appearing to be) following up on his LoS and suspicion from D1 calling out Thesp. Thesp gives his null result, but Walnut votes Charter and lines up Mac for D3 if Charter is scum. This is alright except he doesn't mention Thesp at all. He doesn't say, "I believe you." He doesn't say, "That's scummy but I'll wait for tomorrow." He just says Charter is scum because he's focused on Walnut for crappy reasons, when he doesn't even give a good defense to his total fence sitting D1.
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Post Post #572 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:18 am

Post by CF Riot »

Ok, now onto Charter.

Page 1, pretty weak reason to vote me IMO but lots of people didn't like that post. I think my opinion is swayed because it was against me. Also his contradiction, which is glaring, but I think he was just over anxious to vote me like Netlava was.
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67 calls out Had for his vote. (This one was positive, not negative. I just thought it noteworthy.)
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Lining up lynches in 101. "Leave Had alone but if he's alive tomorrow we'll lynch him." (I will note that he didn't do that today, but it's still scummy.)

Also votes BB for hinting at his role.
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OMGUS's Farside for pointing out his 101. Later he takes it back and says it wasn't that scummy of her after all, after everyone else tells him he was wrong.
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In 250 admits he is too biased for Netlava and promises a reevaluation. In 264 he lists what he noticed in his reread and Netlava isn't even in it as good or bad. 266 claims neutral on Netlava. 331 Finally does the reread, and eventually comes up town. (I originally put more stock into this because I thought Net was scum, but since he flipped town, this is actually rather weak.)
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I don't follow his case on LG. Seems weak. Still, he's not giving LG any undue pressure.
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357 is one of the few posts in the game where his case against Walnut is pretty good.
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409: "Don't defend yourself, I'm convinced you're scum." Way over-confident. This is not good town play, as even if you are confident in your pick you should want plenty of defense from them. More posting by that person only gives more to read. It is still up to the accuser to decide if it either strengthens their tells or clears accusations, but either way your read is better the more they post.
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464: Asks Thesp's a question then gets onto Walnut for the same. Over-eager or stretching.
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467: Telling everyone what to do, and that is not answer questions. This is again bad play because it's limiting information. Any posts, even bad ones, should be helpful. If someone is causing a distraction by meaningless speculation bust them for it, but don't stop all posts before you can judge them as helpful or a distraction.

479 does the same. "Tinsley don't post."
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548 is scummy because he says, "Fark's case against me is weak, so if anyone else wants to help vote for him I will too." He doesn't give good reasoning for thinking scum, and he's basing his vote on how popular the lynch will be.
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551: Intentionally putting scummy parts into your posts to see who points it out is not valid scum hunting. Town does not need deceit to lynch scum. This is VERY bad.
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Conclusion

After rereading everything Charter has done and without the biased thinking that Netlava was scum, I'm starting to think Charter is making a lot of mistakes and jumping the gun a lot, but he's doing so as town. He does some very scummy things, but none of them seem to be working towards any sinister goal of mislynching someone or defending himself unjustly. And I noticed as I went through looking for scum tells, a lot of his cases are presented very poorly, but do make sense if you interpret them a bit.

Walnut doesn't have a defense for his own actions, just attacks against his attackers. He really doesn't have a great case against Charter either. Mainly just that Charter is pursuing him and a lot of Charter's case is flawed in presentation. I don't like his stance on Thesp either. It appears aggressive when brought up, but never on his own doing. He's flying low when he can get away with it, and when forced to make a stance he does so in the most convenient way available at the time.

Some new cases have come up since I started this focused reread, and I'll look into them now that I'm done. I think I've got a live one though.
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Post Post #573 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:03 am

Post by Tinsley »

Farkshinsoup wrote:Ok, so after doing a reread of the Walnut case I'm going to
Unvote
I agree with charter here, the timing of your unvote is suspicious. After the entire bandwagon on charter gets called out, you decide to jump off.
Farkshinsoup wrote:He votes Walnut, a vote that looks pretty useless at that point, put there more so that he can not be on the erroneous Netlava wagon. Also notice how sure he is that Net is town, and how he's willing to lynch Batt instead (there was no way that was going to happen either)
This is a fair argument to make against me since I made a similar argument against him in post 477, with the difference being that charter didn't supply much reason for believing Netlava. I'd stated my doubts about lynching him due to his playing style. This is speculation on your part.

I was hoping to draw up support for the Battousai wagon, I had my doubts on him, as did camn and ShadowGirl, I'm pretty sure there were others who suspected him as well.
Farkshinsoup wrote:I don't buy it. Your vote put Walnut at L-3 at a time that Netlava appeared to be at L-1. There was no way that things were going to get "evened out" and you knew it. I also don't believe that Walnut was the scummier of the 2 at that time to someone who was trying to choose between the 2.
This is all your opinion here. I voted for who I thought was scummier of the two. I didn't want to let my vote go to waste.
Farkshinsoup wrote:Comes right out of N1 with this big pile of WIFOM speculation. Also, here he does something that I've seen in other posts, namely putting questions out to everyone, which looks like it's supposed to spark discussion, but is mostly just useless. This question is particularly useless, as it concerns speculation on who would want to kill Batt last night.
Once again the WIFOM speculation was your opinion, but there were some that thought it could be useful. Can you give some examples of what questions I posted that were useless?
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Post Post #574 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:06 am

Post by camn »

CF- I think your characterization of Charter is incredibly accurate.

I think his responses, especially to me, have been very angry and aggressive.. definitely not helpful... but also not manipulative, like I expect from the Mafia.

Thus, I
Unvote : charter


Plus.. talking to him was starting to stress me out.
totally not worth the effort..:)

I will read on Walnut again now.

c
"if you weren't trying to be so unnecessarily mysterious all the time we wouldn't have these misunderstandings" - Yosarian2

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