Mini 611 - Troy, Meet Helen (Game Over)

[camn]

Hello, everyone.

It was a quick read.. I will go over it again.. but for now, I

vote: Battousai

Why? 2 reasons.

a)

FYI, I was lurking on purpose to see who would say something and when. ...

To me.. lurking is almost universally Anti-Town. And I particularly hate lurking ON PURPOSE. What did you hope to gain by it? To see who would notice? I would have noticed!

b)

What if he really was a doc and it was a real breadcrumb? Then if the scum wasn't observant you just outed a town power role. What do you think should happen if CF is found dead tomorrow as the doc?

What IF that happens? Will you be leading the charge for Netlava to Hang? As Punishment? And then using vengeance as your justification if Netlava turned up innocent? Obviously pointing out breadcrumbs is bad play. But Scum need not do it.. they can simply kill. So what do YOU think should happen?

[camn]

Shadow Girl..

Don't bother with Blackberry.
He's gone.
I'm in.

He was just being silly.

[camn]

I think most of BlackBerry's stuff was based on this mysterious "last game" and not seriously on this game.

[camn]

Alright, everyone.. we need some focus around these parts. Accusations and defensiveness is the the order of the day... and we have votes on 50% of the people in the game!

We gotta pick out a person or two.. and look hard at them until we decide that they aren't worth looking at for a while..........otherwise we'll never vote for anyone.

as far as I am concerned.. this suspect-everyone ploy is anti-town, as it leads to confusion and delay.

that said.. i

unvote

Lets take a hard look at NetLava for a couple days.. simply because he is our vote-leader right now.
Let's not get distracted by other accusations for a little bit, until we are satisfied.

Sound good?
Ok.. I will read NetLava's stuff, and get back to you.

c

[camn]

Good!

Still reading...

But too be clear.. I'm not talking about tunnel vision. I'm just talking about having a conversation based on, like one topic at a time for a little bit!

I just subbed into this game.. and I can hardly tell what anyone is talking sometimes!

It's Crazy~!

And I mean confusion.. as in.. 'i'm confused' the opposite of 'i understand what you are saying'. But I'll try and read better!

[camn]

Alrighty.

First things first........
I'm not reading that other game! I don't wanna get involved!

2nd.

I don't think NetLava looks that scummy right now.
I think Mac is on his case currently for the wrong reasons, mostly OMGUS.

I just read Netlav's posts through twice, and he seems to be scumhunting pretty aggressively.. .. though he may be a LITTLE jumpy.. building cases on pretty thin ground.
But on D1, thin is all we get, right? Better a thin case than no case at all!

However.. his aggression toward CF RIOT seems out of line. First the Stat... then the so-called "doc breadcrumb". . and CF is STILL at the top of his list!
and what does this mean?

@ CF Riot: Well, I don't see anything wrong with trying to get batt to talk, but the way you talk to him makes it seem as if you already know whether batt is scum. You are at the top of my list of suspicion atm, but for quite delicate reasons. Do you know what I'm referring to?

Anyway.. it seems excessive... though NOT, as Mac puts it, OMGUS. Since CF has been in Netlava's crosshairs since page one.. I don't see how it COULD be.

My bottom line? NetLava seems town for now.. though I wonder why all the hate on CF?? is there something I don't know? what are these 'delicate reasons'?

thank you.

[camn]

I'm with Farside.....

Hmm, I really want Netlava to defend himself first. He might be continuing on a suspicion from the last game. (I have suspicions about a number of players doing this) Did he hound you last game?

Is this what you are referring to as "defending" Netlava?

And it should be noted.. after he put you on his "list" you actually voted him!
And your vote stays with him now.
Maybe it is an OMGUS battle...?

But to answer your question.. his reaction seems normal. I didn't read that you were defending him.. it is certainly possible he didn't either.

But your point is accurate.. Netlava is all up on the Hater Tip with regards to CF Riot. I would like to know the origins of this........

[camn]

Thank you for your clarification, Mac..
I concur. However, regarding the LORD.....It's not gurgi's action THERE that is odd, I think.. but Gurgi later claiming that he was actually DEFENDING netlava. That is beyond me right now. But also beside the point. I am not worried about Lord Gurgi right NOW. (thats for later....)

For now.. Netlava... I noticed you were/are after CF pretty hard, independent of LG's words. Is there no explanation? Are you saying that you are NOT, in fact, aggressively pursuing CF Riot?

[camn]

So you concede you are, in fact, aggressively pursuing CF. Some would say "hounding", correct?

Why then, would you dismiss this characterization.. stating..

The whole "hounding riot" theory isn't a legitimate concern, as it was invented by LG to throw out my accusations

If you are, in fact, pursuing CF.. why would you say it isn't a legit concern? Why not say.. "damn straight, He's scum!" Why act like LG made this up? You are being aggressive.. and if you have good reason.. then stick with it! But don't deny it, right?!

[camn]

Here Mac drops another clue that he knows I'm town. How do you know that I think LG is scum? What if my accusation of LG was completely fabricated?

Don't play games. LG was on your list.

Do you actually think LG is scum? Or are your accusations fabricated?

[camn]

unvote

For focus.

[camn]

And Why is CF suddenly OFF the list?

[camn]

I think Camn really thought this as a good idea in her mind.

I still think it's a good idea.. I do better with one conversation at a time!

[camn]

Walnut.. are you saying Netlava is Unlynchable, then? That he always plays scummy.. and thus should never be lynched?

However.. I for one agree at this point.

I think Netlava is throwing a lot of stones, building weak cases left and right.. but probably town. I usually don't see scum grind on players like NL had been grinding on CF for the first part of this game.. so I am willing to relax the issue FOR NOW.

[camn]

Lets take a hard look at NetLava for a couple days.. simply because he is our vote-leader right now.
Let's not get distracted by other accusations for a little bit, until we are satisfied.

I know you later clarified this as too many conversations at once were confusing, but as others have stated if we just focus on Netlava, based on his playstyle, he'll get himself lynched.

Yet we did indeed focus on Netlava for a while.. and He remains Un-Lynched.
I think that despite his playstyle. . this town doesn't want to lynch him today.

And since we keep coming back to BB's comments before I subbed in... I should tell you guys this:

I will need to Claim before Night Fall.
I was going to wait until twilight, in order to avoid a D1 lynch, and to avoid distraction from scumhunting........ but I feel that BBs comments have a little bit of value as to BB's state of mind.. . and might help clear stuff up.

so....Should I do it now? I am not really afraid of a lynch, because I am better off dead than unclaimed. Unclaimed, I am a liability to the town... claimed, I might earn a lynch, but at least I won't accidentally hurt us.

I am willing to discuss it any time. But I don't want to derail any pertinent discussion we might have going.

[camn]

Look.. I'll just come out with it.

I will kill anyone who targets me in the night.

I'm not waiting for a lynch, because I'm not claiming in Self-Defense... and I don't want the discussion to sidetrack anything. But Obviously, if the power roles in the town DONT know about my... ability .. then we could end up with a dead Cop, Doc, or any other thing that there might be, which is obviously a town liability.

So, like I said.. I was going to wait till twilight.. but maybe now is good, so as to shed light on BB's comments. You all know him better than I.

It is a pretty kick ass role, though!

Now.. before you get all Lynch-Happy..... just know this.
If I was scum, I would have held on to the info.. and tried to draw a Cop investigation. Maybe I would have even Claimed Cop.. so as to attempt to draw an investigation AND Doc protection.

Of course.. if you guys believe me.. I am basically un-killable. Which is pretty awesome, and I see how it could be an amazing scum Gambit.

But it's not. I'm town, and I want to remove the threat that I present to our power roles.

Please! Do Not investigate me!
Do not Protect me!
Do not Track me, Hide behind me, or anything else!

But Mafia... Bring it on. Come to my house in the night... See what Happens!

[camn]

Do you know if the mafia's kill would still go through on you? AKA a one for one trade? (not that I would mind that)

I got the feeling I would die... and they would die, too.

Which I am also fine with!
I just don't want OUR power roles to die!

I thought about breadcrumbing something to try and draw a mafia Roleblocker or something.. but it all sounded too complicated in my mind!

[camn]

@LG

It's "Paranoid Gun Enthusiast"

And re: Tunnel vision... it's not that. I just like to concentrate on one thing at a TIME.
Like your post.... it is VERY content-rich... but WAY too much info for me! Like.. should I go read all those posts and address ALL these suspicions?
I think this kind of play is useful... and gives a lot of people stuff to chew on.... but I like focused conversation.
Given... I come from playing this game in real-life. So I lean toward discussions that are more real-life-esque.


@Mac.. I thought for a REALLY long time how to use this role... with the intent of trying to draw scum attention.
But in my mind... it seemed that anything I did to draw scum would also draw a Doc.. if there is one. And My life AND the Doc in exchange for one scum seems no good.

Plus, I have no Idea what all roles there are. . so I decided a Claim would be better. Also.. I tend to draw Cop attention. I'm trying to play better.. but I take a lot of heat as town.

But it should change the mathematics of the endgame.. if I get there! As long as I don't earn a lynch.. it is almost like we have One Less Scum.
Of course.. for Balance.. we might have more scum than we usually would???

hmm.

[camn]

SO.. I work 12s On monday and Tuesday . . so I will try and get a LOS together mid week!

PS.. I love this game.

[camn]

OK, you guys.

I am not as awesomely thorough with the quotes and all.. but here are my thoughts:

I come from the Kill All Lurkers school of thought.. and that brings me to Battousai and Shadowgirl.

Shadowgirl seems like she might actually just be too busy… But Batt admitted to lurking on purpose.. and since then has done some good discussing, but very little actual voting.
I think this is sometimes a scum play, in that you don’t want to seem unengaged. . but often people just skim back over voting records later on… so you can avoid too much dirt for lynching townies.

I also am newly suspecting Charter.
Mostly for recently calling out an OLD vote on him

Have you forgotten about your vote? You're currently voting me, but do you no longer find me suspicious?

And even follows up with

What I was getting at is do you find anyone suspicious enough to vote for them?

Yet still has an ANCIENT, grandfathered-in vote for me. An Oversight? Maybe.

Netlava and Hadfanhg seem suspect to me, but I am getting the strong read off them that they just play Suspect. But I will watch them.

Anyway.. that’s my list.
I know it’s not crazy-detailed.. but summer is here!

[camn]

Sorry, Charter... upon closer examination.. I missed it.

I blame Mizzy!

Vote Count:

Walnut 3 (charter, Macavenger, Netlava)
Netlava 3 (CF Riot, Lord Gurgi, Battousai)
charter 2 (farside22, ShadowGirl)
camn 1 (charter)
CF Riot 1 (Hadhfang)

Not Voting:

Walnut, camn

12 alive = 7 to lynch!

[camn]

Charter is listed twice!

[camn]

Sorry for the double... but all that said. .

I think Batt is scummier....
but of our two leaders.. I

Vote: NetLava

Maybe he just plays scummy, but his early defenses were weak. They strengthened up. . .but still.
The weird lists, people coming on and off the list almost randomly.. the more I re-read his posts, the more confused I get. I'd like some more pressure before we get caught in a deadline.

[camn]

Netlava 5 (CF Riot, Lord Gurgi, Battousai, Walnut, camn)

[camn]

camn, you're saying you're also suspicious of Battousai - I assume you think he's bussing Netlava then?

\

Sadly, I can see it both ways.

If Netlava turns up innocent, Batt gets away with his vote because of NL's overall scummyness.

If NL is indeed scum, Batt gets a little innocence spread on him for voting.

If Batt is innocent, he gets to do the happy dance if NL is scum.

I know it's weak, but i don't see voting patterns as much of a tell. I've seen scum buss every last buddy they had.

they don't value life like we do.

c

[camn]

Shadowgirl Almost had it...

I think, in general, we get more information with someone at L-1... and WAY more information from the Hammer than we get from a deadline lynch.
Me voting Batt RIGHT NOW would do very little for the town, IMO (like voting for Nader).. whereas ramping up the pressure on Netlava just might.

That said.. I keep my vote for now.
It seems Netlava can't get any trust going. If he survives tonight, will tomorrow be any different? Or will he still be a leading contender?

I will take a nice hard look at Walnut, though.

c

[camn]

@ Camn, you should unvote if you don't actually think I'm scum. It could force the scum to overextend in pushing my lynch.

At best, you are a distraction from real scumunting. And as it stands, you die at deadline with or without my vote.

I'd rather see the Hammer. Deadline lynches mildly annoy me.

PS.. does Fark's vote count? He didn't unvote either?

[camn]

Wow. I call that Bad Play on behalf of the Scum.

Why Batt? He was a likely lynch.......

I will check it when I' more sober.

c

[camn]

Hrmph. Looks like I'm outed. Yuck.

OK.. Just for clairity....

Are you confirming your predecessor's claim?

I read it as yes, you are.

If so.. could you re-state your role? And please enlighten us as to your night activities?

thank you
c

[camn]

I Like speculation! Isn't that what this game is all about?

so....
/speculation ON

a) the mafia thought he was a power role.

Now.. all you Master's of each other's Meta.......
who would look at Batt's play, and knowing he was town, would interpret it as him being a power role? A lot of townies read power-roles as scummy..... so maybe the mafia just went with OUR suspicion's as their guides.
But whoever it was, I doubt that they would have called out Batt in-thread.
Which tends to give Shadowgirl some slack, as well as Batts other accusers?

OR
b) a weak attempt to frame Shadowgirl. She is a lurker.. thus an easy lynch? The obviousness of this play ALSO inclines me toward her innocence.


Could be WIFOM'ed.. but I am inclined to cut her some slack FOR NOW. I won't string her up just for lurking.

/speculation OFF

In the real world....

I do want Thesp to join our discussion.

[camn]

Whew!

I am laid up on percocet.. and I just pulled a re-read.

Thus, I

Vote Charter

why?

General scumminess.. short posts, wishy-washy accusations.. and these:

I'll just requote my posts from yesterday... Prepare yourself.

This is insane to me. Quoting a huge block of yourself... just to say "look, I posted already! I don't need to anymore!!" Weak Sauce.

All aboard.

This after ONE vote.

That's fine if you don't want to argue, but then shouldn't you be doing something other than nothing (by that I mean just commenting on stuff)?

This is kind of weird.. because on casual inspection, charter has, like, 25 single-line posts. Posts that I would totally characterize as 'just commenting'

[camn]

Beat you, LG

[camn]

The insane part is RE-quoting yourself. If I didn't get it the first time... One should rephrase. It would be like me posting the EXACT same thing in response to YOUR question!

Wishy washy... like this:

I don't like Netlava's reaction to Thesp's declaration he's scum.

BUT

I had my suspicions that Netlava was town.

Not totally scummy on its own.. but in contrast to his assertions like this:

It is so painfully obvious Walnut is scum.

..
It seems wishy washy to me.

And Short comments seem suspect IN LIGHT of him calling out others for the same

That's fine if you don't want to argue, but then shouldn't you be doing something other than nothing (by that I mean just commenting on stuff)?

It seems like a lot of Charter's posts are merely comments.
It is this inconsistency that earns my attention.

The "All Aboard" seemed funny considering we thought he only had ONE vote. But I see now there was 2.. so that is less suspect.

c

[camn]

Points taken. I am on percocet, so I take my reasoning with a grain of salt for the next couple days

[camn]

I don't know if you actually think I'm scummy, or you're just looking for the easy bandwagon.

I don't want an easy wagon.

I want pressure on you. I want meaningful answers to people's questions. I want decent dialogue in general.

That said...

Are you REALLY saying post 476 was a "condensed case" against Walnut? To me, it just looks INCREDIBLY unhelpful. Basically just throwing old posts back in Fark's face. A lot of it wasn't about Walnut at all.
maybe you had a good reason for that barrage...... but it doesn't seem helpful from where I am sitting.

And the wishy-washiness comes again...

I think I might actually be ok with a Fark lynch if anyone else but thesp thinks he's scummy, or an LG lynch

So.. do you or don't you think Fark and LG are scummy?

c



And PS.. my reasoning very well may be off this week. I am totally under the influence!

[camn]

You didn't respond to my original questioning of how I'm wishy washy. I threw that in my last post to see if you'd jump on me for it.

So.. was it, like, a trick? Is that how you play... by writing things that are intentionally confusing in order to trick people? What exactly was the point of writing this?

I wasn't aware that I was supposed to be helping you with that post.

It's not about helping me IN PARTICULAR.. but helping the town as a whole actually see your points.
The fact that you weren't trying to help was very obvious. And is why my vote is still on you.

I want to see you as town.. but your tone is so unhelpful it is hard for me to do that. Why are you so angry ?


Mac.. my vote on charter came from a fresh re-read. .and It stays on because I still don't understand his play. Your points seemed valid, but then charter came back and threw it into question again. So I probe for more information. And besides, Best way to find the buddies is with a wagon

c

[camn]

I too think it has grown too quickly... but I like the discussion we are getting out of it.

[camn]

CF- I think your characterization of Charter is incredibly accurate.

I think his responses, especially to me, have been very angry and aggressive.. definitely not helpful... but also not manipulative, like I expect from the Mafia.

Thus, I

Unvote : charter

Plus.. talking to him was starting to stress me out.
totally not worth the effort..

I will read on Walnut again now.

c

[camn]

Like that, for example.

Not incredible helpful... but do scum act this way?
No, I don't think so.

c

[camn]

So .. I read all of Walnut's posts..

and I see that he has been on his heels almost this whole game. So Obviously he looks defensive. But I don't get a scummy feeling from him.

So I hold onto my vote for now. But I won't stand in you'alls way!

c

[camn]

Go ahead.

You want to lessen our odds in the endgame, be my guest.

AS it stands, nobody has lynched any scum... . so your judgment may or may not be accurate.

[camn]

Because it makes you look more town by taking a stand, all be it on a lost cause. If Walnut is town, then you can push for his lynch on D2, with the added legitimacy of being on the right side of the Netlava lynch. At the end of Day 2, you've got 2 mislynches on the first 2 days.

This is all very WIFOM. A townie could do all these things too.
Tinsley might actually BE town, which is why he took a stand, allbeit on a lost cause.

If Walnut is scum, then you get to actively bus your partner safely without having to lynch him. If he's the Day 2 lynch, you come out looking very pro-town.

And If we lynch Walnut, and he turns up Scum... Tinsley only looks good if he busses him TODAY.. and we all know about bussing your partner...so he would have to really lead the charge.

Thus I don't think his vote YESTERDAY really helps him in that eventuality. Unless he is really going to railroad a scumbuddy. . which I am not against.

c

[camn]

it was kind of tucked in at the end . .

[camn]

OK, look... don't take this as oppositional.. it is simply a counterpoint.
I like it when we ar all talking about the same thing... so I went and looked at all those posts.

My thoughts:

33, Does throw out SK suspicion.. but... I see it as totally in response to the "is there 3 mafia" speculation.. which was opened up by charter and Riot
69, true... why is Farside's opinion relevant at that point?
140, charter has some deep seated OMGUS tendencies, I think.
174, True
175, a little over the top...
176, and a simple OMGUS from LG, IMO, but certainly with poor reasoning.
188, does there need to be a different point?
212, I thought you like Mac as town?
215, that he does.. but granted, Ntlava was all over him.
221, I tend to agree. People should just admit it when they are omgus-ing.
258, i leave this to LG

265, true, you admit to tunnel vision. I kind of approve! We all are imperfect.. I like it when someone admits it!
277, but it is an accepatble response, IMO.. and an answer to a direct question.
278, Mac, you say you think LG is probably town, do you still feel this way? Why or why not? <<ditto
317, i think this is a good post.
384, a lot of people are wrong on D1 IMO, charter including this is just more passive/agressive omgusing. Thanks for that.
399, another good post by Netlava
419, I like commentary on 'playstlye' It helps me.
421, I dont see the humor.
434, I don't see that at all.. with all the Unvote-rules violations.. we needed some clarity. LG was being Loistically helpful, again.
448, this IS worth looking into. .
451, maybe he is anxious...............
497, you re just mad cuz he brings you up again
535, totally agree. Why didn't that vote come earlier? Like.. post 497?
577, true...
634, Agree here, too. A reason would be nice.
642, now IS the time to find your scum and stick to it. Why is the vote on Fark and not Charter, then?

[camn]

Whether you are tired of it or not isn't particularly relevant.

Now, Gurgi.

Regarding post 174-176.

You are stating that 174 was simply a Defense of Netlava? You were just trying to slow down the wagon until he had a chance to defend himself?
Are you saying you had no plan to vote him AT THAT POINT?

[camn]

@ Gurgi....

so how was it that, 2 posts later, you ended up VOTING him?
Be Honest. What changed your mind?


@walnut. . charter doesn't answer direct questions

[camn]

See what I mean?

[camn]

I totally have a list of suspects.

As I have stated earlier.. I love to all talk about the same thing at the same time... so I usually lay low until there is some room to speak... and with THIS GROUP it's hard to squish it in!
That said, since you asked.. I'll tell you.

Understand...I don't have time to prepare detailed cases right now. And I might not even have them. I kind of play backwards from you all.. I assume everyone is Scum... and move them OFF the list as they act normal.
Anyway, people I still think are suspect today?

1. Macavenger. - Playing a perfect townie. Just how I would play if I were scum! Real townies make mistakes.

2. Lord Gurgi - Moving downward on my list. I agree with CF yet again

3. Charter - as previously noted.

Now understand.. this thread is almost too unwieldy for me to build historical cases. Luckily I don't like doing that, anyway. I like questioning people. So when the conversation comes around to people I am interested in. . . I will interview them. (I come from playing real-life style.)


Now.. @Gurgi.

You are saying that Netlava Jumping all over you seemed Scummy to you?
What is scummy about it?
I only ask because 1 post seems a little thin to TOTALLY change your mind!
But you are saying Jumpy = Scummy. .?

[camn]

I know regarding Mac. I'm sure if I looked at him harder, He would be off my list.....

But I told you, I'm backwards. I HAVEN"T looked at him very hard... thus he is still on my list.

I don't usually make lists

Anyway, Walnut.. I do mean what you said.

At Charter.. as I wrote.. I don't suspect him because of that. I suspect EVERYONE based on nothing at all. Then I slowly clear people that do things I don't think scum would do.

I know it's weird....but It makes the game more fun for me.

... and never offer anything productive to finding scum. ...

I agree with you regarding posts 174-176... but I need to point out this part.
Last I checked.. nobody has found any scum yet. Thus I see this argument as less than valid. At this point, even the most fevered scumhunters could be misleading us all.

c

[camn]

@ Tinsley... I don't like to talk about it! I always get my butt handed to me when I talk about who I think ISN'T scum
BUt I will say.. the more Thesp writes, the more I like him.


@CF It's true. Kind Of. But the more HE writes, the LESS I like him. YOu see I am very emotional. I have been thinking... Scum can play in a very unhelpful way, too! So he got back on my list.

@thesp. Me too. Later this week I will look at Fark and Tinsley. The Latter is starting to swim upwards on my list. I like what charter is doing with this line of questioning! Maybe he isn't so bad after all (charter, that is). I'm not feeling a Walnut lynch, though. And LG seems to be answering everything correctly! But I don't want to derail the inquisition...

I'll get too it. I am a big believer in Vote first, Ask Questions later.

In fact.....
I'll just put my money where my mouth is:

Vote Tinsley

Which is it? LG or Fark? Or both?
You can't say "they aren't both scum" and "kill them both" in the same breath.

Plus.. SOME scum stayed off the Netlava Wagon. They wouldn't ALL jump on, right?
Netlava is dead
Thesp I like right now
charter is STILL pushing walnut......

That leaves Mac and Tinsley, right?
Mac can't type, so he isn't good sport till later.
That leaves you, dude.

[camn]

Urgh. Camn just voted someone who wasn't even on the LoS she posted 1 page ago. I don't know how to digest this at all. I'm also bothered by the fact that your trend on Charter is: Scum+Vote -> Misguided town -> LoS #3 -> "Maybe not so bad!"

That's why I don't like lists. I suspect everyone. Because I have gotten burned PLENTY of times by some great scum who never made ANY list. I'm sure you have too. So I keep an open mind

And would you rather I just made up my mind on charter, and totally disregarded everything that happened afterwards?

[camn]

I Know.. I seemed to bring everything to a halt.

c

ps..
CF.. I don't need an "excuse".

You want my honest opinions? I will give them to you. That is my life's work My opinions change with new information. Plus.. your characterization is off. This is how MY mind works:

Scum = must die.
Misguided town = probably SHOULD die
LOS #3 = third in line to Die
"maybe not so bad" = OK to put off dying until tomorrow.

You see there is no flip flopping.. it's just a matter of degree.

[camn]

By the way my crappy argument/prediction is looking like it’s coming true. You’ve got your loyal followers (camn and Walnut) on my bandwagon now. ...

Just as a detail, I'd like to point out one thing.
There was no vote on you when I voted you. I joined no wagon...... but I am a little impressed/concerned with the speed it has grown.


@Tinsley
You think I am Fark's follower? Please explain why.
Do you mean we are both scum?
Are you speculating we are Masons? a Cult? Lovers?
whats the deal?

@ Walnut-
what DID change your mind?

@Fark
DID you orchestrate this wagon in advance?
you wrote this:

If we manage to lynch Tinsley today, I'll be looking at LG hard tomorrow

What does that mean?

[camn]

I said that in the same post where I switched my vote back to Tinsley from LG. As you can tell from my post, I wanted Tinsley lynched. At that point, yeah I was hoping that Thesp would switch his vote over to Tinsley, because, again, I wanted him lynched. So "we" means you, me, hopefully Thesp, and anyone else that wanted to lynch him.

Yeah, but.. what if Tinsely is Town? Then do you still want LG dead?

And no, I don't think you orchestrated this.


@Tinsley... I think Fark is Suspect.
Which is weird for me, because before I voted for YOU, I thought he was pretty much clear... But coming back at you like that seems opportunistic.. the way he was lining up lynches seems odd... It read to me like something scum would PM to their buddy .. "hey.. if we manage to get Tinsley lynched... lets go after LG tomorrow!"

But I re-read most of his posts. and I can't QUITE justify lynching him.

I too am against a deadline at this point. We have plenty to talk about.

[camn]

I am totally reading everything very intently.
Don't think I am asleep on you guys.

I just am in the middle of a hardcore scum-roast in a different game

[camn]

Alright, mac.. I can get with this.

I think Walnut is a Townie that has been on his heels all game, and hasn't got a chance to get his footing.

LG I think got misunderstood. He posted some things that read a little scummy.. but in another light I can see them as town. Probably town.

Tinsley I think is scum. I'm not CONVINCED.. but I am never really sure of things this early in the game.

Fark I am still questionable on. He isn't overtly scummy to me. . but I certainly see some of these arguments. I'm almost willing to vote him. Later this week I will look into that.

c

PS.. Everyone posts more when their ass is on the line.

[camn]

I stated that I think that not ALL the scum were on the Netlava wagon. Some of them must have voted elsewhere.

[camn]

No Backup.. It's just my reasoning. They wouldn't ALL wagon a townie. That's inconceivable to me.

Unless you mean "when did you say that?" In which case it was post 692. When I initially voted Tinsley.

c

[camn]

EBWOP.

I think there was enough people NOT on the Netlava wagon so that some had to be scum.
Usually this wouldn't be that significant, but in my mind I have cleared a number of them, so the REMAINING people who were NOT on the wagon got pretty small.

so, Netlava, obv, is dead.
Thesp and Shadowgirl . . I think they are town...
That leaves You, Mac and Tinsley.

In my mind, at least one of these three must be scum, regardless of scumminess.

[camn]

Wow.

This is a huge battle....
Let me sum up the arguments:


Tinsley - "Charter, doing X, Y, and Z is scummy"
Charter - "None of that is scummy."
Tinsley - "Is, too."
Charter - "Is not!"

[camn]

@charter..

The only thing weaker than Tinsley's case was your Defense.

You guys both need to get back to basics.

PBPA very rarely makes a convincing case, if you ask me... But you guys seem to be into it, so carry on!

c

[camn]

thats twice someone has used "Too Townie" to defend Mac.

That is not what we are saying.

It's not that Mac is Too PRO-TOWN... its that he is too PERFECT.

Only Scum know who all the townies are.

Real Townies make mistakes. They OMGUS. They WIFOM. They Lynch innocents.
Mac's "perfect play" was more like . . the opposite of that..

SO keep your wiki to yourself.

c

[camn]

wOW.

A) I was considering hammering Mac. That would be fun.
but
B) self-hammering is so scummy.

I stay on Tinsley for now.

[camn]

It's true. Tinsley's play regarding the Mac wagon makes no sense as scum.
It is also true, that deadline lynches are for suckers.

Unvote: Tinsley
Vote Macavenger

[camn]

1. Camn hammered to avoid deadline lynch....

Just for the record.. I hammered because I thought Mac was scum. AND because deadline lynches are lame.

Charter: In twilight you asaid you were 'surprised' by me. What was surprising?

[camn]

Christ you guys.. can we take it down a notch?
Neither of you are building any kind of case.

So look...
I'm inclined to suspect that at least TWO of these people are scum:

LG
Charter
CF Riot.

Thats my list.
My reasons? Process of elimination. In my mind I have cleared everyone else.

Anyone else think they know who the scum are?

[camn]

Who was surprised?

Were you Surprised at the truth, LG?

[camn]

Camn on what grounds have you cleared Fark and SG?

The play against Batt on N1 clears SG, I think..

and I believe Fark's claim.

But I would say Fark is MORE clean than SG.

[camn]

CF is not cleared in my book.

An interesting question regarding ME..

I kind of reason it that if I am alive.. and we get it down to ONE scum only... than we get a draw, at worst?

like.. if it is ME, a townie, and 1 scum in the end, and we mislynch the townie.. then the scum kills me at night, but not before I shoot him in the face?

Am i wrong about this?

Also... yesterdays lynch was pretty lame. I get busy for one day... and you guys go all half-cocked.

[camn]

Vote Nolynch

and the Scum?

Charter and CF Riot, I think.

That should be the hammer?

[camn]

AS I mentioned, CF and Charter are the last scum.

But If one scum wants to bus the other, I am for it.

I am ready to vote charter right now.. but I wanna check my note first (which are at home!)

c

[camn]

The hammer is all yours, Thesp.

VOTE CF RIOT

With this mega voting, I obviously think they both are scum.

SG is confirmed town in my mind, still from the play against Batt N1,
and I believe Thesp, especially after Fark's death.

CF, your defense of Charter's vote is poor. If you AND charter are scum.. then it WOULD make sense for charter to Vote you early... talk a big game about you being scum... but then back off and make some wishy-washy case against someone else.

That would make a LOT of sense. And it is exactly what is happening.

Anyway... using CF's logic.. If SG is scum she will hammer me. If Thesp is scum he will hammer me. And we lose either way.

If neither of them do, then CF and Charter are the last scum.

Thesp.. you have the ball.

[camn]

And PS..

I never said I "Prefer" to vote charter.

I said I was "READY" to vote charter, in that he is scum. (and had a vote on him!)
And that if CF was going to Bus his partner, I would support him.
BUT.. I was at school and wanted to check my notes before I got too crazy.

Nice mis-quote, charter. Do you retract it?

[camn]

Told you.

Nice work, Charter.
Way to blow the game.

c

[camn]

If you guys had just NOT LYNCHED ME we would have had a heck of a shot!

c

[camn]

You blew it, charter.

CF and SG are the scum.

You were the only townie on the final mislynch.

so sad....

[camn]

Good game people!

I totally debated regarding claiming early, But I couldn't think of a single way to play that would draw mafia attention without drawing townie-power-role attention...so I figured I would just claim and try to use the advantage in endgame.

I wonder whe Hadfang claimed "uncertain sanity"?

and Mizzy.. what WOULD have happened if it ended up just me and 1 scum? Would they have won in endgame? would we just have killed each other, resulting in a draw?

[camn]

Fair enough, charter.. . if you are incredibly Cop dependent.