Mini 638 - Batman Mafia - Prozacmod 1 - Over

[Singing Librarian]

It could certainly be comic, DBE...

[Singing Librarian]

I don't see any reason that either Batman and co or the villains should be the mafia in this game. The opening post makes it clear that a 'small group' from within those trapped are doing the killing, and also suggests that Batman, Robin and Nightwing could have been taken over in some way - so, it may be villains killing other villains and the heroes indiscriminately, the heroes gone a tad extreme or a mixture of villains and heroes.

I'd agree that KingEnigma is probably the Ventriloquist. However, as explained above, that doesn't help us with knowing who is scum and who isn't.

[Singing Librarian]

The cat references, though, could point to a number of different characters, though Catwoman is the most obvious. The g/b substitution points towards the Ventriloquist/Scarface, one of the best modern Batman villains. But is he scum? We really have no way of telling.

[Singing Librarian]

I believe that who is and who is not mafia is completely independent of who is and who is not a hero or a villain. A mixture of the two is most likely, surely?

[Singing Librarian]

Role speculation can only take us so far beyond the obvious (and the seeming post restrictions could well be faked for fun or more devious reasons) - I know that my random word to post at confirmation stage had no clue to what my character is, and I am assuming that I'm not the only one that applies to.

I don't understand the mini wagon on Charter, anyone care to ellaborate?

[Singing Librarian]

OK, that does make sense. Excessive speculation can be harmful, but the speculation that Charter was objecting to was nowhere near that level which is pretty suspicious in and of itself. I think we should wait for his return and potential explanations before adding votes to the wagon, though.

[Singing Librarian]

Why fourth? Why not third or fifth?

I don't see the point in claiming to be honest, but since quite a number of people have 'outed' themselves already, it probably can't do as much harm as it sometimes could.

[Singing Librarian]

ABR does ahve quite a history of lying as a member of town, to be fair, but I'm not at all convinced that this should give him a 'get out of lying free' card particularly since I can see no pro-town reason at all to pretend to be a different character to the character you have been assigned.

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

For the record, I am Batman. I am town, but have no evidence either way about the other two heroes. Unlike others, I don't think it's a good idea at this stage to claim a role as well as a name - even those claiming vanilla is not helpful, as that helps scum to narrow down their list of potential power roles to target at night.

[Singing Librarian]

Gaaaaaaa.......

ABR, if you really are town and Poison Ivy and vanilla, then what the blazes are you playing at?

First, you've ignored the point about not claiming vanilla - if all the vanilla townies do that, it'll make it so much easier for scum to take out the power roles.

Secondly, if you thought the mass nameclaim was a bad idea (and I think it's neither good nor bad, really), why not just say so or refuse to claim instead of pretending to be the Joker?

Lying as town in order to catch scum I can understand, but lying as town just for the heck of it is ridiculous. Scummiest thing in the game by a long, long way.

Also, on another point, didn't Godot say that he thought it likely that at least one of, rather than all three of, the heroes would be scum? In other words, that scumminess is independent of the alignment of the character in the world of the comics/films/TV?

[Singing Librarian]

Also, on another point, didn't Godot say that he thought it likely that at least one of, rather than all three of, the heroes would be scum? In other words, that scumminess is independent of the alignment of the character in the world of the comics/films/TV?

Yes, I voted him for it and he OMGUS voted me back. He now seems to have developed a severe case of amnesia.

I don't put much stock in either of ABRs claims. Why he's being an idiot I have no idea though.

My point was actually this:

- Godot said he thought one of the heroes may well be scum, but not all the heroes
- I claimed Batman
- he didn't vote for me, but the suggestion was made that he should because I'm one of the heroes
- this suggestion doesn't make sense, because he didn't say that he thought the three heroes would be the scum team

No amnesia - Godot was acting in logical accord with what he'd already surmised, and shouldn't be criticised for such, IMO.

[Singing Librarian]

I don't think there's a real need to nameclaim or to roleclaim. I figured that 'coming out' as Batman couldn't hurt matters since we already had so many characters out in the open, and I doubt it would help scum immensely (though role claiming most definitely would), but it also doesn't really help town all that much.

As for voting ABR, it's been said by everyone already. He lied about his character and about his role. That's not helpful play to the town, and lying is much more likely to be scum tactics than town (even though ABR has an erratic style of play, this was even more unhelpful than some of his often clever gambits). "I'm a vig" followed by "I'm vanilla" followed by "I'm a power role". What? Why?

If Charter really can't see the reasons for what was, we can plainly see, a mislynch, then he really deserves suspicion.

[Singing Librarian]

So you even admit you lynched him despite him not being scummy? Not helpful to the town is very distictly different from making someone scum. Half of Zoneace's posts are not helpful to the town, but you don't suspect him do you? Flameaxe hasn't been helpful to the town so far, but he's free to go?

Your logic is singling out ABR when it should apply to others. If Godot didn't have another vote on him already, I'd vote you.

Go ahead and 'suspect' me because I can tell the difference between not helpful and scum.

The difference between ABR's play yesterday and, say Zoneace, is quite substantial and important. While some of Zoneace's posts do not help town, ABR's play was actively unhelpful. Actively unhelpful generally equals scummy.

To turn this around, are you saying that we should have given him a free pass for lying, first about which character he was, then about his role? In which case, we don't bother pursuing anyone who is found to be lying?

[Singing Librarian]

Charter - What am I waiting for? I'm waiting until something is said or done which seems to warrant a vote. I will not vote just to move the game along or just for the heck of it - votes are the town's greatest power and shouldn't be abused. Doesn't mean I'll necessarily manage to vote for scum, but I'm saving my vote until I can see a clear reason to suspect that someone is scum.

[Singing Librarian]

You're my number two suspect. Add active lurking and waiting until you can join a wagon when it's safe to the reasons I suspect you.

Don't be ridiculous... Just because I want to have a solid reason to vote for somebody does not mean that I will be a wagon-joiner. I'm more than happy to be the first person voting for someone, but (and here's they key point that you seem to have missed) only if it's

justified

.

And, on another subject entirely, pwnz's claim does seem incredibly random - I don't see why he felt the need to claim at all. Yesterday's claiming was all a bit rushed and random as well, but this is particularly odd. Could you explain further why you decided to claim?

[Singing Librarian]

Having found pwnz's claim rasther weird, I went back and re-read his posts. It strikes me that other than trying to decipher everyone's posting patterns near the start of day one, he hasn't really made any contribution to discussion.

I find both 'all the heroes are scum' and 'none of the heroes are scum' to be dodgy positions to hold, and I still do not see any reason why him claiming Nightwing could possibly 'debunk' (his word) the theory that the heroes are the scum.

He has gone along with the crowd thus far without needing to lay down a vote and be an official part of the lynch.

Too much blending in, a random claim and an attempt to support an untenable hypothesis. These things together make me confident that pwnz is likely to be one of the scum in the game.

Vote: pwnz

[Singing Librarian]

pwnz - Given that the only time you've even mentioned Inspector Godot before was when you were trying to guess who everyone was, can you explain your reasons for that vote?

I'm also finding myself agreeing with Godot and Zoneace about KE and Grimmy - you're not able to post much, fine, but couldn't you post more helpfully?

[Singing Librarian]

To everyone else that wanted me to give some sort of explanation as to why I decided to vote for Godot:

A vote is a vote, usually put on someone when you are suspicious of their posting and overall demeanor. I placed my vote on him because I believe that he is the most suspicious player in this game so far. I'm not the only one, either, because I see others saying that he looks relatively scummy as well. So, to all of you that want me to explain why I put a vote on someone, how about we instead ask the person who has the votes on him why we shouldn't lynch him. It is he who should be questioned instead of you who should be defending him, because you then look like you have some specific reason that you don't want him dead.

That's the worst explanation I've ever seen! If you want to see how it should be done, then Charter, for example, refers to specific posts and specific things he finds scummy in Godot's play, which is surely how hunting for scum should be done. You've simply said "I believe that he is the most suspicious player in this game so far", which is a meaningless statement without at least one actual reason to back it up.

Yes, Godot should be defending himself, but nobody (innocent or guilty) can defend themselves against a non-argument.

Also, KE, apologies, I was perhaps slightly harsh. It was your statement that you weren't going to bother looking for anyone else who was scummy because you'd already found one scummy person which irritated me. You did provide reasoning for your suspicions, I wouldn't question that. However, as there will be more than one scum in the game, none of us should ever stop looking for them. Just because I'm convinced pwnz is one of them doesn't mean that I'll stop reading everyone else carefully, examining the cases etc.

[Singing Librarian]

Right...ignoring the 'unpleasantness' which has marked much of the last few pages...

Welcome, Danger. I will reserve judgement on your alignment for the time being. I'm pretty sure the person behind Charter's screen name was clashing madly with the person behind zoneace's and that this makes it nigh on impossible to analyse a lot of what he actually did and said in terms of the game.

pwnz - seriously, could you be more scummy? A hunch is fine to a certain extent, but what gave you that hunch? If you really can't point to anything at all, then why are you voting? No, none of us can be one hundred percent sure of anything, but (right or wrong), the rest of us are providing reasons for our suspicions. The fact that you can't/don't/won't is just making me more and more sure that you are one of the scum faction. for what it's worth, I don't believe there is any one given way a townie should act, other than that it should be in the town's best interest. I don't see that in you.

Confused by the whole KE going to sleep thing.

[Singing Librarian]

Hmmm. Interesting... I have to say I'm completely stumped. Major re-read necessary, I think. Surprised that pwnz was townie, surprised by the nightkill. But I agree with Zoneace that not understanding the reasons we lynched ABR is pretty bizarre from Danger - yes, he was innocent, but can you really, honestly say that you wouldn't have been at all suspicious of his actions on day 1? Really?

[Singing Librarian]

Really sorry, guys, have contacted the mod to request replacement (in my other game as well). Things have gone mad, and I'm just not going to be able to devote any time at all to mafiascum.

In terms of this game, Danger is definitely most likely scum as far as I'm concerned.

Vote: Danger