Open 83 - Polygamist Mafia (Game over!) before 628

[ZeekLTK]

Adel what is the point of this list you are compiling and why haven't you provided a name for it?

[Adel]

I generally classify players into categories by the number of gameposts they've made. I had a hunch that you were more experienced at forum mafia then just the ~300 gameposts you've made here. Within spies 5 I found a reference to that being the first time you were scum, as well as another where you made a sweeping generalization about how you behave when you are a werewolf. I'm looking at your past performances as scum to see if there is anything to clear you of being scum in this game.

Do you still claim to have completed about 21 games of forum mafia?

[Adel]

Adel what is the point of this list you are compiling and why haven't you provided a name for it?

are you getting nervous?
The point of the list is to collect the data necessary to out scum.

[forbiddanlight]

Yep

TWG 68 through 86 (minus the one I hosted)
TWGR 3 or 4-6
Spies 5 of course
Spies 5 after party game

That's...21 or 22, as I thought.

[forbiddanlight]

as well as another where you made a sweeping generalization about how you behave when you are a werewolf.

Where was this? I really don't have enough data to make one of those guesses. I've been scum...3 times I think. Maybe 4 if I missed one.

[Adel]

it was in the "critique the spies" thread

[ZeekLTK]

I am getting curious as to what you're doing...

It seems to me that compiling a list like this will only help the scum (either yourself or others) determine who the easiest town target is to push for a mislynch (or, at the very least, the hardest target - to stay away from). Maybe you and Fire aren't scum, but you and someone else are... now you see a couple players think Fire is town so you won't go after him because you think it's unlikely he'll be mislynched.

SpyreX and Fire have been listed twice (and me once, but you left that off)... if both (or either) are scum then this list is going to be detrimental to scum hunting because people will see they are "most thought of to be town" and look elsewhere...

I just don't see how it will help the town and DO see how it could help the scum... so I'm wondering why you are doing it.

Also you still didn't say why you haven't given a name.

[forbiddanlight]

Ah, the I have information thing. It does seem to be common between both me in an aux role as well as scum. Well, do I seem to be playing like that now? Of course, any discussion of that bent ends up being WIFOM because if I recognized it, it's possible I changed it.

[Shy Guy]

I'm about halfway through the game (page 10). I'd have finished but I got sidetracked responding to A dense e-mail late at night.

I have a pretty good feeling of who I believe the scum are, but I am too tired to finish reading through the thread at present. While I do have a strong inclination as to which two are most likely to be scum and which two are their most likely counterparts, I don't believe it would be useful for me to post my thoughts considering only half of the information available to me.

I'll save my notes and continue reading where I left off sometime in the next few days.

[Adel]

I am getting curious as to what you're doing...

one of the only systematic ways to identify mafia is voting analysis. Since there was only one real wagon day 1, and we can't afford a mislynch on day 2, I need a data set that is as objective as possible.

It seems to me that compiling a list like this will only help the scum (either yourself or others) determine who the easiest town target is to push for a mislynch (or, at the very least, the hardest target - to stay away from). Maybe you and Fire aren't scum, but you and someone else are... now you see a couple players think Fire is town so you won't go after him because you think it's unlikely he'll be mislynched.

Discussing scum tactics is generally a bad idea.

During pahse 1 of this process I will be collecting data.
During phase 2 I will present my data.
In phase 3 I present the conclusions.

The entire process is quite transparent. I can't disclose exactly where I am going with this, for fear of tipping off the scum, but it should be pretty clear that I am generating more information for the town.

SpyreX and Fire have been listed twice (and me once, but you left that off)

I did? would you quote the post where you were named? I didn't mean to skip it.

... if both (or either) are scum then this list is going to be detrimental to scum hunting because people will see they are "most thought of to be town" and look elsewhere...

that is one way to use the list. There are others.

I just don't see how it will help the town and DO see how it could help the scum... so I'm wondering why you are doing it.

sorry, I'm not about to explain how it can trap scum.

Also you still didn't say why you haven't given a name.

oh, I thought you meant a name for the list, as in a title for the list.
I'd prefer to be the last one to give a name... it seems like my answer would catch several players by suprise, and since I apprently have so much pro-town karma right now, I would hate for other players of less certain alignment to hide behind my opinion.

[ZeekLTK]

Well, I disagree that speculating is a bad idea because when you do it the point is to figure out what the scum might be doing, and once you figure out what they are doing you can figure out how to stop them.

For example, I suspect that you might be scum and trying to set us up for a mislynch somehow with this "list", so I speculated about it so that others can think about it instead of follow it blindly into a possible trap.

Also,

All in all, I could see cases for most anyone being scum but if, right now, I had to say who I thought was town...probably Zeek

[Adel]

forbiddanlight -> clears -> Spyrex
Chelseafan -> clears -> Firestarter
ZeekLTK -> clears -> Firestarter
Spyrex -> clears -> ZeekLTK (post 411)
Nameless -> clears -> Spyrex

I'm not surew how I missed Spyrex's post at 411.

[Firestarter]

Ive gotta say, that this list is intriguing and confusing for me in equal proportions....

And I echo the sentiments about why this will be valid in the end...

It would seem that what your doing is a townish thing to do, but your offering no info, and its equally probable that your compiling a list to help in lynching a townie.

So far, we have 3 people "cleared" by others... Im not happy with the wording your using here, Im pretty certain that noone has "cleared" anyone at this stage.

You should change that straight away... possibly as "X sees x as likely townie" or something along those lines.

Spyrex has stated that Zeek is likely townie, but if this "clears" Zeek, does it also clear his partner, whome I consider to be more scummy than Zeek, hence clearing the love pair?

Your reluctance to indicate who you, Adel, thinks is most townie at this point, may be nothing, but your blankly refusing to disclose this while asking for everyone else to...

BTW, Spyrex is the lover from your pair who has recieved the votes for "clearance" as you put it, so no, you dont have as much "pro town karma" as you think...

In fact, your list so far indicates that both Spyrex & I are the ones with most "clearances" to our name...

Who do you think is/are the the most townie?

[Adel]

unvote, vote:Firestarter

[forbiddanlight]

That's OMGUS like hell Adel. While Firestarter's post left me uneasy, your post doesn't make me feel any better. Explain. You don't have to reveal your pro town choice like he's demanding, but honestly, votes without reasoning aren't good play. (Also, I think if you clear Spyrex, you as such clear Adel, and she does have a point with her attempt. I want to see where it goes. She can't set up a mislynch if we pay attention)

[forbiddanlight]

Well, not quite OMGUS. But close.

[Firestarter]

yeach, I can't rule anyone out as scum right now. Does anyone have a list of who they think is most probably town?

This is your own quote Adel.....

Who do you think is/are the the most townie?

unvote, vote:Firestarter

Firstly, please answer the questions put in front of you...
Secondly, I refuse to rule anyone out either....
Thirdly, I'd very much like to hear an explanation for your latest action..

[Adel]

nope, sorry. have fun though.

[Firestarter]

That's OMGUS like hell Adel. While Firestarter's post left me uneasy, your post doesn't make me feel any better. Explain. You don't have to reveal your pro town choice like he's demanding, but honestly, votes without reasoning aren't good play. (Also, I think if you clear Spyrex, you as such clear Adel, and she does have a point with her attempt. I want to see where it goes. She can't set up a mislynch if we pay attention)

Im not demanding an answer from Adel, Im asking her for her choice at this time, like she asked of the rest of the players...

If anything, and by your own phrasing, Forbidden, I'd argue the point that Adel is

more

"demanding" having requested in several different posts for players to co-operate...
Yet she is not so forthcoming herself...

[forbiddanlight]

Well, this is difficult. If you were alone, Adel, I'd be voting you in a heartbeat. But you are with Spyrex, who's been pretty pro town so far...good mindfuck :S. Unfortunately, since I do believe Spyrex is town, I'm kinda in the let's see where this goes before I decide what to do next mood. I guess continue...but let it be noted that you have made my view of your pairing a bit tarnished.

[forbiddanlight]

Im not demanding an answer from Adel, Im asking her for her choice at this time, like she asked of the rest of the players...

Demanding might have been too strong. Still, I don't see Adel's question as harmful. I find her tatics questionable, but I kinda trust Spyrex, so I can't do much about them.

[Adel]

The entire process is quite transparent. I can't disclose exactly where I am going with this, for fear of tipping off the scum, but it should be pretty clear that I am generating more information for the town.

I'd prefer to be the last one to give a name... it seems like my answer would catch several players by suprise, and since I apprently have so much pro-town karma right now, I would hate for other players of less certain alignment to hide behind my opinion.

note that I posted these lines before Firestarter's 441 and 443.

[Firestarter]

Adel what is the point of this list you are compiling and why haven't you provided a name for it?

Note this was posted before both of yours.

My problem is that although compiling a list like this can be helpful to town (I cant see it in this case at the moment), it can also help scum to narrow down a target that would seem convincing to the rest.
You wanting to be the last to name your suspect would fit in nicely if you are scum.
This is a possibilty that town would be foolish to rule out given we're at lylo.
In saying that, Im happy to see your conclusions at the end of this, but you do not need this list to name your top suspect(s) at this time.

Firstly, please answer the questions put in front of you...
Secondly, I refuse to rule anyone out either....
Thirdly, I'd very much like to hear an explanation for your latest action..

These still stand.

[Adel]

My problem is that although compiling a list like this can be helpful to town (I cant see it in this case at the moment), it can also help scum to narrow down a target that would seem convincing to the rest.

ah, but I am not asking for a suspect, I am asking for a non-suspect.

You wanting to be the last to name your suspect would fit in nicely if you are scum.

I am not asking for a suspect, I am asking for a non-suspect. If I was trying to identify a safe person to push a mislynch on,

and

I was asking for most-suspicious person, your theory would make sense.

This is a possibilty that town would be foolish to rule out given we're at lylo.
In saying that, Im happy to see your conclusions at the end of this, but you do not need this list to name your top suspect(s) at this time.

So you are asking for me to list my top suspects? WTF! Are you really making the supreme scum blunder of doing exactly the scummy thing you are accusing your targeted townie of doing? What luck!

[Adel]

@Firestarter: please provide the name of your non-suspect so that we can carry on with this process.