mini 620 - pxm - GAME OVER

[Now a JDodge]

hi

vote Green Cow

[Now a JDodge]

Hi folks. Trojan Horse here.

unvote

I have no idea which of my fellow heads made that first post. I sent a PM (NAJ to NAJ) asking about it, but it doesn't look like anyone has read it yet. I wanted to take time to discuss things with my fellow heads, but that does not look likely. Looks like I'll have to lead until they start showing up.

A few comments:

Since we have a 10:2 setup, this game will last 4 days maximum.

I have no idea how you got that. Even with a nk between each lynch and the next, this game could last 5 days.

Assuming you want to spread you posts over the 4 days, that's 25 posts per game day, or 5 posts per real time day. That's actually not as bad as I thought it would be. The 100 post limit is probably the least of our worries.

The 250 post nk is more troubling. Assuming we do make 5 posts per day to maximize the number of posts of we can make in this game, that's 12*25 posts in one game day, or 300 posts - the nk will happen before the day ends.

So, if we want the nk to roughly coincide with the end of the day, we should only have 50 posts per real time day, or ~4 posts per person.

One thing you should realize: as people are lynched, those 50 posts per real time day will be split between fewer and fewer people. That 100 post limit may be the least of our worries now, but it'll probably get more worrisome the later we get into the game.

Towndras are probably going to be pretty helpful because of their varied insight. Assuming NaJD is town for example, that's already the same number of players as the rest of the town scumhunting. As long as they can work with the limits and deadlines, they'll probably contribute more than us.

Don't count on that amount of help. With klebian's departure, there are only 8 of us heads left. SL hasn't posted since Tuesday. BA hasn't posted since Wednesday, and he's off at Starkadium (if I'm not mistaken). That leaves 6 heads that might be around, and I wouldn't be surprised if only 2 or 3 of us end up contributing. We'll just have to put in an extra effort to make up for our slacker heads.

Anyway,

vote killa seven

, pending a relevant post on his part.

[Now a JDodge]

Trojan Horse here again. Long, busy day; finally got the time to post again. Here are some more of my thoughts. (Also, I'm including a thought from fellow head Xdaamno; he requested that I add it in.)

1. I/We are at 6 votes right now, not 7, Icemuffin (at least by my count). So it's not over yet. I will say, though, that I'm sure that the mod will count both of your posts (both the one as Iceman and the one as Icemuffin) against you. You didn't need to come in and post under the hydra account; the mod said that posts under the individual accounts are legal.

2. I still have no idea who made that first NAJ post. Green Cow, I really doubt it was Jathan, considering that he hasn't been posting for several days (though that certainly is his style of post).

3. I'm sure at least one of the scum- possibly even both- is on my bandwagon right now. Obvious first round target for the scum, since the fewer minds trying to deduce who the scum are, the better for the scum. Who's most likely? My fellow head has his suspicions:

Natirasha (Tarmogoyf), your vote is perplexing; Now a JDodge is not just here to screw around, we're actually playing mafia - though even if we were, that wouldn't be any reason to vote us. While I can sort of deduce you were semi-joking, the second half of your reasoning isn't much clearer. What about that post made you think NaJ is scum? Do you really think anyone in this hydra at all is stupid enough to blatantly try and lose the game for town single-handedly? WIFOM dosen't apply, as town wasting posts can't possibly be interpreted as town, therefore scum would have no alignment-based reason to do so. To clarify, null tell.

Seems like looking for excuses to vote, from my POV.

~ Xdaamno

My fellow head may well have it right, but my eyes are on a couple of later voters, namely StrangerCoug and maxwellhouse. I tried to make a meaningful contribution after a rogue head of mine made a meaningless post. And they push us to the brink of being lynched AFTER I've made my contribution? StrangerCoug is the more suspicious of the two, in my opinion, based on this:

killa seven, you just wasted your first post out of 100 by sticking only eight words in it. Care to explain that?

...

Green Cow, I understand your bandwagoning concern, but if short posts concern you as a waste of space, then why are you merely FoS'ing killa seven for it? I don't get it, and you seem overly cautious here.

Vote: Green Cow

Um, it sounds very reasonable to me for someone to make a FOS in their very first post, instead of a vote. That's not a scumtell to me. Based on having (IMO) a bad reason to vote Green Cow, and based on what looks like an opportunistic vote on me:

Unvote K7
Vote StrangerCoug

Note: I'm not letting K7 off the hook yet; I still want him to come in and make some kind of contribution. But at the moment, StrangerCoug looks scummier to me.

[Now a JDodge]

this is dahill chiming in real quickly.

unvote vote maxwell

this is so obvious scum that it hards
first of all, the whole defending killa seven while simultaneously attacking us for the

same exact reason

...and even after TrojH posted with content! i have some questions for maxwell concerning that even though i can't think of how he can possibly defend himself over such an obvious move.

i'm not entirely sure about nowajdodge. the random pop-in to say "hi i vote green cow"? what was that? i suppose it could be a random slip up of not reading the rules, but i kinda feel like it was a slip up of poor communication, as in the hydras talked but did not clear up everything of their vote.

distancing himself from the wagon and yet he still votes us. if you feel as if it was poor communication then why vote us?

killa seven, i think that was a slip up. based on what he said, he seemed very "normal" mafia lynching. the reason he hasn't responded with he reasons could be his making up for the short post. so i don't think we should jump on killa seven just yet.

what possible difference was there between the two posts that made you decide his was definitely a slip up? you defend him by saying that he hasn't responded yet because he is planning to make a big post. first of all, that is assuming a lot, because how could you know what he is planning on doing? also, TrojH as NAJ posted a contentful post that cleared things up after the original first post by NAJ. by your logic, we should not jump on NAJ yet.

first off, i came to post only because i was prodded and don't want to be eliminated because of that.

would you have posted if not prodded?

second, i voted because i didn't want to waste a post by not voting, and i thought voting would make NAJD respond and defend themselves. i guess that was some faulty decision-making on my part, sorry about that.

didn't you already see our second and third post?

honestly, i am a bit baffled at who to vote for. but now that i'm reading stuff, i am hesitant to go through with the voting. maybe i am easily swayed but...

unvote

why are you so suddenly unvoting now? what has changed your mind about NAJ? would you have unvoted if people hadn't pointed out that you were being hypocritical in your vote?

though now that i am reviewing, the icemuffin seems to be contributing not so much besides the writing down the ideas in a word document. both people seem to be filling up more posts than necessary. the first post did not really have much "meat" to it and the second two... couldn't you have asked the question AND had the analysis in the same post? it would take up less posts.

vote: icemuffin

at this point in the game, this is pretty much a crap reason for a vote on icemuffin. we gained tons of information due to that quick bandwagon on NAJ. i think you were just placing a blatant bandwagon vote for crap reasons, you got caught, and now you are trying to pull back your vote and keep the spotlight off for a while

[Now a JDodge]

Jathan here, just wondering how the wagon on us could have formed beyond bull shit reasoning. Tarmogoyf is voting on an unreasonable suspicion that we are going to break site rules of not playing to win and a post that is pretty mucha null tell as having less posts avaliable is bad for any alignment. Lawrencelot is voting based on a reasoning very similar to trying to lynch good players early as they are too good as scum. Ting is voting us for absolutely no reason. Coug is just jumping on a wagon as he it is obvious a multi-headed accounts members are going to be slightly hypocritical, especially when they make a post that is disjointed among members. Maxwell votes for self contradicting reasons.

At least one of Coug and Maxwell is probably scum.

Also, I did not make the first post. I do not know who did.

Natirasha (Tarmogoyf), your vote is perplexing; Now a JDodge is not just here to screw around, we're actually playing mafia - though even if we were, that wouldn't be any reason to vote us. While I can sort of deduce you were semi-joking, the second half of your reasoning isn't much clearer. What about that post made you think NaJ is scum? Do you really think anyone in this hydra at all is stupid enough to blatantly try and lose the game for town single-handedly? WIFOM dosen't apply, as town wasting posts can't possibly be interpreted as town, therefore scum would have no alignment-based reason to do so. To clarify, null tell.

Seems like looking for excuses to vote, from my POV.

~ Xdaamno

Armlx Here:

Just Want To Say That It Is Dumb To Lynch Us As We Will Reach 100 Posts For Sure And Die Meaning We Won't Make It To Endgame. Also Do The Mafia Get To Kill During Nights Between Each Lynch? As Then It Seems Broken As They Also Get Extra Kills For Posts And 2:10 Already Has Never Been Won By Town.

[Now a JDodge]

dahill here

Now a JDodge: I find him pretty scummy. Their first post is something I won't forget, and they need to find the person who made it, or they should get lynched. "I didn't do it" is not a good defense. "everyone who attacked us uses bullshit reasoning" is not a good defense. "maxwell is obvious scum" is not a good defense. If maxwell isn't scum, this one is the best candidate.

ok...did you read our actual defense other than those posts

Green Cow: If NaJ is scum, he's a good candidate for being the scumbuddy.

why?

actually, i am not scum at all. you guys can lynch me all you want... you'll just be sorry about it afterward because i am 100% innocent.

saying things like this won't change anyone's view on you

i would NOT have posted if i had not been prodded, because i really don't think i have anything to contribute. however, i don't want to be modkilled because of that, so i posted what i saw. would you rather i have said "hi, i'm here to post because i was prodded." and end it there? i will do that next time if you would like.

there was plenty of content so far in the game, and lots of things for you to analayze. especially the huge bandwagon on us, which you did the scummiest thing in that situation and voted for us with crap reasons. if you had nothing to contribute, then why did you feel you had to vote us if you wouldn't have otherwise?

granted, i'm not contributing much except being a townie.

"guys, don't lynch me! i'm just being a townie."

i voted for you because i thought one of you could have came up with an idea of who to vote for and instead of further communicating, one of you voted. again, i probably shouldn't have said that because now i look "guilty" but would you rather i just say i was posting just so i wouldn't be modkilled?

no i would rather you have posted something with content and not be modkilled. however, the case right now seems like you couldn't think of what to post and didn't want to be modkilled, so you just jumped on the easiest wagon

the difference i saw was that whoever posted in yours said nothing but "hi vote: so and so" and the other person was like "hahaha i vote randomly for this person because of this". the first seemed more like a serious vote, the second seemed more of a normal mafia vote (randomly voting and giving a funny/stupid reason for it). the first didn't have that, so i thought maybe it might have been poor communication.

it was indeed a result of poor communication which is exactly our point. we don't know what reasons whoever posted that had for voting green cow, so in my mind, i saw it as a random vote as well.

yes, i did see the second post and i wanted to know more of what you guys would have to say.

well what did you think about our second post? was your vote a pressure vote to get us to say more? if that is the case, then (i think) you had put as at L-1/L-2 which is no longer a pressure vote, and more of a "i want to lynch you" vote.

duh, i read your third post and every post in between, all of the people saying how we should get off the NAJD bandwagon. so i did. did you want me to stay on that vote? would that make me less scum?

so you are just mindlessly following the crowd now?!?! form your own opinions! first you voted us because everyone else was. then, you unvoted because everyone else was! how are people not seeing this?

ok, i will stop voting and contributing if you guys like. i have a hard time bring ideas to the table so obviously i should just post fluff and not vote because that is better that for a townie to live.

please try to contribute. there is lots of information out right now due to the various wagons, etc. that should be enough to form your thoughts on something.

[Now a JDodge]

Hello again. Trojan Horse here.

Hmm. I'm guessing Muerto spent at least 10 minutes making that last post, and didn't notice ShadowGirl had been modkilled. But anyway...

Looks like I/we are less than 24 hours from suffering the same fate as ShadowGirl, so I'm going to post again now. Near the end of day 1, I had considered switching our vote to K7 (one contentless post from K7 was bad enough, but two was horrible). But I figured I'd be wasting a post, since it looked like K7 would get lynched anyway. So I held off.

Who to go after next? I'm still convinced that at least one scum tried to take advantage of my early bandwagon. My eyes are still on StrangerCoug and maxwellhouse, who both jumped on my bandwagon AFTER I stepped in and posted some content. (The earlier votes don't bother me as much.) I know at least a couple of my fellow heads want maxwellhouse out, but as for me, StrangerCoug is bothering me more. I guess you could say that we literally have half a mind to lynch Stranger and half a mind to lynch maxwell.

After I make this post, I'm going to send a PM to my fellow heads and ask them who they think is the scummiest; I want us to come to some kind of consensus.

In reply to Muerrto:

My partner still doesn't wanna vote Maxwell. I hate the newb card with a passion. Especially in a non-newbie game. If you plan on playing with the big boys, don't expect us to pull punches. Pulling a newb card here was just bad and saying 'I'm townie I swear' is worse. I reeeeally wanna vote you.

My partner still likes JDodge being scum but I'm simply not feeling it. If I turn out to be wrong I'm gonna have to apologise but not placing my vote there.

I'm compromising and

Vote: Stranger

You jumped from the Dodge wagon to the Max wagon and then HoS'ed Killa even though there's no lynch -1 or whatever in this game instead of voting him to distance yourself from the lynch. What use is the HoS? Why not a vote? Made no sense.

I agree that maxwell pulling out the newbie card is a bad move, so

FoS: maxwell

for now. But I still think Stranger is scummier at the moment. Muerrto, you've pretty much summarized why I think Stranger is scum, except that I'd add his first vote on Green Cow to the list. (He voted for Green Cow because Green Cow merely FoSed K7, instead of voting K7. Bad reason, I'd say.) I'd also remove Stranger's HoS of K7 from the list; K7 was more or less done at that point. Adding an extra vote wouldn't do much, so what's the difference if he voted or not? Null tell to me.

Still, because of what looks like some major opportunistic voting on Stranger's part:

Vote: StrangerCoug

[Now a JDodge]

dahill here..

@Ting: i agree we should talk some more before agreeing to switch the votes, but i am content with TrojH putting our vote on Stranger, as i agree with everything he said about him. i think it's safe to say that those two are more or less our most suspicious right now. as for the "half-a-mind" thing, we still communicate with each other, and i'm sure we won't miscommunicate to the extent of someone being mislynched because we were arguing with ourselves.

Ill answer this:

Now maxs last 2 posts have been massive and they have both aswered questions and explained his votes. His logic might not be the greatest considering he is still adding information to votes on the first page but he is trying to get this game going. I have played here for 4 months and never have i seen a newbie who is posting as much as he is turn out to be scum. I see him as newb town.

this has got to be the most crap logic i have ever seen!
first of all,

big post =/= town

. i have no idea where you got the idea that if someone posts walls of text that they are automatically town. basically what you are saying is: his logic is bad, but he makes big posts and big posts are good!! post size is in

no way

indicative of alignment whatsoever, and you clearing him solely on that fact warrants an

FoS: icemuffin

Now muerrtos point isnt bad but you say that voting somone for fosing on the first page is totally ridculous and straight after that fos by green cow i thought that was suspicious and so did my partner.

i'm a little confused here...do you think NAJ is scummy or Green Cow?

Let me explain why.

On the first page the aim is to vote to try get a response out of people. Now when you are scum you try not to vote so that you stay in everybodies good books which makes you keep quiet. Therefore no body will vote you and therefore scum become safe.

That is why i have seen strangercoug as town since the beginning. Now It didnt make me want to lynch green cow due to the fact that I have seen somone else fos on page one and turn out town. However for you to vote coug after he made a good point seems absoultly ridiculous to me. Thereofre

vote najd

for now.

ps: love the green cow aviatar

seriously...the logic that you are using is fucking mind-boggling to me. "I have seen somone else fos on page one and turn out town." THAT DOES NOT MEAN EVERYBODY WHO FoS's ON PAGE ONE IS TOWN! Also, your point about scum staying quiet is true in some cases, but if the scum are smart enough, then no they won't lurk the entire game. Just because one is posting a lot and asking questions doesn't mean they can't be scum. furthermore, i don't understand your vote whatsoever. you "cleared" green cow and stranger, but how does that lead to a "therefore it must be NAJ"?

Extreme FoS: Icemuffin

[Now a JDodge]

dahill again

first off, i would like to show muffinhead something...presenting Newbie 586! Meet clammy. clammy made big posts. clammy is a newbie. clammy was scum. i rest my case.
that should break that ridiculous meta that newbie scum don't make big posts.

anyways @ting:

Why the change of mind?

maxwell's more recent posts have seemed a little bit more townish than before. also, i am now starting to see how her actions could be made by either newbie scum

or

town. i am definitely still suspicious of her though. on the other hand, strangercoug's actions are far more scummy, in the sense that a townie probably would not do so. i guess i was a little rash in calling maxwell "obvious scum" at the time. furthermore, stranger's last post made me faaar more comfortable with our vote atm. also i agree with muerrto about the hydra thing. people shouldn't automatically expect us to agree on everything, because it's people naturally disagree sometimes.

[Now a JDodge]

Trojan Horse here again. Posting to avoid modkill.

(maxwellhouse: the 5 day mark has been reached. ting switched votes at the last second; strife has been lynched. We're in twilight.)

Forgive me for the lack of posting. I checked the thread yesterday, and I would have spoken up if need be; but it looked certain that stranger was going to be lynched, and that was fine with me. So I conserved my posts. I was shocked to see ting switch votes today; didn't see that coming.

Ting, I don't know about this plan of yours. First of all, I'm not convinced that stranger is town, just because he didn't spam the thread. Perhaps he just didn't think of it. Of course, if strife really IS scum (as you now suspect), he's STILL gonna spam the thread, now that you gave him the idea. We're in twilight; posts are still allowed until xyzzy officially announces the lynch. I just hope that, if strife IS scum, that xyzzy gets here before strife does. Otherwise, here comes the spam.

That's the SECOND time you've helped the scum. Dude. Possibly keeping your strategies to yourself may help a bit more.

My thoughts exactly.

As a final point: ting, your last second switch to strife gives me some thoughts that YOU might be scum. Let's see here: you save Stranger at the last second, and you also start talking about how a doomed scum might spam the thread. Perhaps you're scummates with Stranger, and you were trying to give him some strategy. Farfetched? Perhaps, but I can't help thinking it.

Anyway: strife, if you are scum, please don't spam the thread. Just let xyzzy announce your lynch. No need to waste your time spamming. Please?

[Now a JDodge]

Hello folks. Trojan Horse here. I think my last post deserves a little bit of an explanation, so here it is.

Contrary to what I said in post 103, I knew that StrangerCoug had been lynched, not strife. Here are the two relevant posts:

...

killa seven is lynched. He was Mr. Flay, a townie.

"Everyone," killa seven shouted, "I'm most definitely not scum! You see, I'm Mr. Flay - an all around fantasti-"

He didn't finish that sentence, for suddenly a bullet entered his head, seemingly from nowhere. What a shame.

IT IS NOW DAY TWO.

That was posted last Thursday at 11:13AM, MS time. That post started the 120 hour countdown.

unvote. vote:strife

It's nearly deadline. I was waiting to see if strangercoug would spam the thread, he hasn't.

He's posted at other threads on the site since my post, so he's not v/la.

I'll admit I have no case on strife. I do, however, now think that strangercoug is town.

----

This was the post where ting switched his vote to strife, supposedly at the very last minute. That was posted Tuesday at

12:44PM

, MS time. One hour and 31 minutes too late. My guess is that ting got messed up on the time zones or something.

So if I knew Stranger was the lynch and not strife, why did I agree with ting and say that strife was lynched? I was trying to trick the scum. I didn't want them to take advantage of the "spam the thread" strategy that ting mentioned. Here's what I was thinking:

1. If Stranger is scum, he'll think that he's still alive. So he won't try to spam the thread, since that would give him away.

2. If strife is scum, he'll think that he's been lynched. So he WILL try to spam the thread while it's still twilight. Which is good on balance, cause then we'll know he's scum, and we can lynch him next.

Reverse psychology FTW. "Oh please, strife! Please don't spam the thread if you're scum! Please!" I'm sorry for prolonging the confusion over who had been lynched, but I figured it was necessary; I had to try to make the scum slip up.

Having said all that: I now REALLY think that ting is scum. Seems like he tried to save his scummate at the last minute (though he got the timing wrong), and at the same time, tried to pass some strategy to his partner, by talking about how the scum could spam the thread. No one else looks scummy to me at the moment, so...

Vote: Ting

Ladies and germs, I think we've got this thing locked up.

[Now a JDodge]

Trojan Horse again.

Second: I still don't think Ting is scum.

He could have got my lynched without risking SC's life.

SC's unvote and vote for Ting on post 97 is a little confusing though - it seems like a nonsensical move to make regardless of alignment.

Emphasis mine. Hmm, good point. If Ting is scum, that move was definitely riskier than necessary. (I went back and doublechecked things; turns out that Ting was the LAST vote on stranger, before he made his late switch to strife. Forgot about that.) Hmm... okay...

Unvote

for now.

Also didn't notice that Green Cow was the final vote on strife, before ting did his late switch. Another good point, strife. Thing is, if Green Cow is our final scum, looks like he may well hand us the victory by getting modkilled. So until he posts or gets modkilled, I'm going to focus on these recent arguments against icemuffin. Time to take another look back, and see what I can see.

One other thing to mention:

sorry, i got mixed up. my bad =x. the lynching hasn't exactly followed that pattern though, as the rules have said. for example, the 120 hour deadline isn't followed- it's just a 5 day rough sketch, it seems. and you said strife was dead but strangercoug was lynched instead, after the deadline when i had placed my vote on him. you're right about the double lynch thing though, i didn't read into that, sorry.

Uh, maxwell... the 120 hour deadline WAS followed. Xyzzy was just late coming in to tell us who got lynched. He only counted the votes cast up until the 120 hour mark, which did NOT include ting's switch from stranger to strife. So stranger was lynched.

[Now a JDodge]

Trojan Horse here. Before I start responding to certain things, I'd like to correct a statement I made in my last post:

Thing is, if Green Cow is our final scum, looks like he may well hand us the victory by getting modkilled. So until he posts or gets modkilled, I'm going to focus on these recent arguments against icemuffin. Time to take another look back, and see what I can see.

Turns out Green Cow was nowhere near being modkilled when I made that post, since hasdgfas had just made a post (under his own username) that same day. Forgot to check for that. I goofed.

Now, on to replies:

Still waiting for an answer from Najd to this

@NaJd- How about we get every single person in the hydra to give us an oponion of who they think is scum and who they think is town. 9 oponions is much more usfull then just the one. I suggest putting this into 1 or 2 posts.

I've sent a PM to the group, asking for their opinions. No replies yet, and I honestly don't expect to get very many. (Perhaps dahill will reply, but I doubt I'll hear from anyone else.) If I do get responses, I'll let you know.

As for Ting, I agree with NAJD, that's a pretty big tell.

Thing is, you're not really agreeing with me anymore. I've kinda changed my mind on that. Ting was the LAST vote on Stranger, then he switched (too late, unknowingly) to strife. That's a bit blatant; maybe too blatant for a scum move. Ting's in the middle of my scummy list now.

Post 83 (1 minute after post 82), Icemuffin comes in and votes me.
I make my defense, Icemuffin makes his counter-defense, and then GreenCow comes in, sides with Icemuffin (his previous #1 suspect), calls my defense WIFOM, and plops his vote on me with some (I think) crappy reasoning to put me at 3 votes.

You think. Wow. Did you even read my post? You suggest a nameclaim, then ruin any chances of a nameclaim working for us by claiming Pirate!

Uh, not following here. How does that ruin the chances of a nameclaim working?

I'm going to talk to Hasd before changing our vote, but I still say Strife is scum.

After what happened in twilight yesterday, I doubt it. If he was scum, he would've spammed the thread during twilight. (Unless he realized that he hadn't really been lynched. Which is possible.)

Ya know what?

Vote Green Cow

. Strife's arguments have convinced me. I'm feeling good about this.

[Now a JDodge]

Trojan Horse here. I'd just like to point out who the first person was to suspect- and vote for- StrangerCoug.

*GLOAT GLOAT GLOAT*

Anyway, ^5's to the rest of the town!