Open 83 - Polygamist Mafia (Game over!) before 628

[Gimbo]

/way so many old faces....does MS only have like 20 members or something??

[Gimbo]

^ -__-, hey forbid sorry for killing you in Double Day.

[Gimbo]

vote:somestrangeflea

cause I can

[Gimbo]

ops

[Gimbo]

FoS:somestrangeflea

for hyperventilating this early in the game.

[Gimbo]

Vote:somestrangeflea

cause I can.

[Gimbo]

I support mass-claiming today simply because we known townies wouldn't lie, so we would already have 4 vote-pairs right off the bat, this forces the 4 scum to split, and its much better for town.

if we don't massclaim, then even town pairs might not vote together, thus its going to be much more confusing.

[Gimbo]

^

[Gimbo]

oh shut up you.

[Gimbo]

yea, i'm at massclaim standby

[Gimbo]

For this to work,

all TOWN pairs must

vote together. scums do whatever you want

NOW I claim to be scum:

1) If I am scum, then I create confusing WIFOM for the town and the result depends on town's interpretation of this at the end of the day.

2) If I am town, the scums will surely know this. Thus, this puts the scums in a hard position; to vote for me or not?

Lynching a town pair is optimal for the scums because if it's not me up for lynch and we decide on a new lynch, 1 of the scums might very well get killed (2/5 chance once me and my lover gets exempt) decimating the whole group and giving town victory on Day 1.

If the scums decide to join townies to lynch me and I (and my partner) flip town, then after my lynch, from the votecount of the day before, we can most likely catch scum.

If the scums decide to not vote for me, then I can't possibly be lynched because it takes 7 to lynch, the scumgroup 4 + my lover pair = 6, there's no way to get a majority.

If the scums split up and a few of them join townies (1 scum + 3 town pair, 2 town pair + 3 scum) to lynch me.

we will already know the pairs, in the 1st case, we lynch the lone-voter on my wagon, in the second case, we ask the 3-voters ?scums (we don't know yet) to create a pair, leaving 1 voter alone and we lynch that voter

P.S. the scums might decide to drop this whole thing like it (my claim) never happened, however, that means that me and my lovers gets silent-confirmation from town if we are not lynched. Because i this game, you're either town or not town, no in between, by me not getting lynched even when I claim scum, that basically is my confirmation. This narrows it down to 5 pairs, with 3 being town, and 2 being scum.

We can basically random vote and we very well might win, IF we don't, on Day 2, its going to be 50/50 and even if we have no other information, just by guessing we have 50% chance of hitting scum.

With that I'll start the mass-claim.

Me and somestrangeflea are lovers

(I know..lol).

[Gimbo]

...

Did we just claim scum?

yes we did, honey.

[Gimbo]

Unvote Vote:Chelseafan

to follow my own rules.

[Gimbo]

Ok, so

chensi and Chelseafan are 'lovers'

P.S. lovers are quoted by ' ' because I do not know your alignment yet.

[Gimbo]

^ how is that so? you can be scum and you are pairing off into 2 pairs.

[Gimbo]

based on your join date and your posts

HoS:KNIGHT42

for both not claiming and for your vote post, very scummy

[Gimbo]

I bet the mafia group of chenhsi, Gimbo, chelseafan, and flea would like for me to claim my lover!

how so??

[Gimbo]

FoS: all non-claimers

[Gimbo]

^ my vote for Flea was a part of the random vote stage since outside of this game, I'm not a big fan of Flea but under this circumstance, we are forced to work together as lovers.

[Gimbo]

just for analogy, that vote you placed so me seemed awfully like how you as scum in another game with MoS voted for him after his 2nd post gambit claiming scum.

as I said, the initial vote was a part of the random vote people and people hardly even stick with their random vote. thank you for twisting my words. what i was trying to say is that when we mass-claim and town pairs vote together, its less confusing for town.

What a convenient way for you to vote for me without seeming scummy.

Vote:Adel

and no, I am NOT omgusing.

[Gimbo]

how about start by claiming lovers, everyone?

[Gimbo]

ok, see what we have here. SpyreX, Knight, Adel + ?....I'd say not a bad mix. Hell, when I said what I said, I expected that I might get lynched, that's okay. After I'm dead, all you scums voting for you are going to be screwed Day 2

This game can last maximum 2 Days. That means 1) D1 mass-claim 2) D2 mass-claim 3) no mass-claim.

That being said, I think a mass-claim is better than none, so now we ask is it better on D1 or D2. I do not see how claiming on D2 is better than on D1. I think the reluctance of people to claim when doing so clearly doesn't hurt town anyways (being that there ar eno power roles, so who the scum kill doesn't matter for them) is very scummy.

Of course you guys are free to vote for me, I claimed scum for god's sake. So its not about the fact that you voted for me.

However, i think that as a townie, there should at least be hesitation upon reading my claim on what I am trying to achieve and what I can achieve with what I said both as scum or town and then decide which one is more likely. However, I immediately get votes expressing anger at me for being 'anti-town'. when this happens, I think the most logical explanation is that this is scum jumping a great wagon under the guise of anger for my 'anti-townness'. If I die, that's okay, I trust living townies to make a wise decision Day 2.

With that said, out of Knight, SpyreX and Adel, Knight is the noobiest, so I think for town, the safest bet is to lynch Knight. So

Unvote Vote:Knight

, this doesn't mean the other 2 isn't scum, but a bit less likely than the noob, no offense.

[Gimbo]

SpyreX, getting a little worked up there? Haven't seen that from you in all the other games I'm in with you.

[Gimbo]

Knight's actions

1) calls Gimbo (me), Flea, chensi, Chelseafan the scumgroup.
2) votes chelseafan
2) unvotes, votes Flea
3) unvotes, votes Gimbo

so, please answer this question, Knight, if we are the scum-group, why are you jumping between us 3 in voting when killing 1 of us destroys the entire group?

you (Knight) poses no reasoning for your votes and your posts are filled with stuff like 'aha, you are scum!', and 'you ain't foolin' me!'......well...you ain't fooling me either

Claiming lovers, organizes things well and when lovers vote together, it's much easier to analyze everything in the votecount.

[Gimbo]

not saying its true but lets say you four "claimed your lovers" urging others to do so,

so you could just pick us off

you lost me there, please explain your reasoning.

[Gimbo]

oh good lord, Knight, I read thru your current posts and you are so clueless and noobie, I don't know what to think anymore....if you are town, you certainly aren't helping us...at all.

[Gimbo]

If we vote for the scummiest player on D1, then that takes away the whole purpose of having lover pairs, which is suppose to make things easier.

As I have read in another game, by claiming, we can now judge the action of a pair, rather than an individual, which make things much easier for town to get a read on people.

Adel: how do you think claiming today hurts town? also let's for argument sake, say you are a scum: What would you do when you are forced into agreeing to a mass-claim, how will you interact with your scumbuddies after making a lover claim with 1 of your buddies?

[Gimbo]

chenhsi, what are your thoughts on everything in Page 5? thnx.

[Gimbo]

Adel is obvious scum, town is blind.

[Gimbo]

ops

Unvote Vote:Adel

[Gimbo]

i already explained why i suspect you, SpyreX and Knight. Knight is exempt because he is a noob, SpyreX hasn't given me any more reads so that leaves you.

[Gimbo]

Knight, you are so noobie you leave me speechless, with that said, just don't say anything, please.

I still find all of you non-claimers anti-town because claiming can never actually hurt town. After claiming, we can dismiss 2 people at a time as town or scum, instead of 1 by 1, which makes things much more convoluted.

[Gimbo]

omg......

[Gimbo]

Knight, you are

1) assuming that 1 pair out out me/flea and chensi/chelseafan must be scum... if you are really town, you are sure making the scums really happy.

2) basically saying that flea can't withdraw his vote or he is scum....how does this make any sense? Picture yourself voting for someone, but later withdraw because you no longer find him/her suspicious, only to find others calling you a scum withdrawing a vote from your scum-buddies,....doesn't this just make you go 'wait, wtf?!"

Please do us a favor and go read up on another Polygamist Game, I think its Open 79, just search 'polygamist' in the forum. In that game, you'll see that claiming lovers on Day1 was the norm and that it was those who don't claim, rather than those who does, that were seen as scummy.

I claimed lover, followed by chensi claiming love,r both are pro-town actions, followed by 3-4 people refusing to claim and getting very angry which = scumminess.


Knight: what do you think of SpyreX and Adel's response to what I proposed?

[Gimbo]

Why would flea withdraw his vote if he is a town? Because if we find go through with the lynching of Chelseafan, and he is innocent, I will thus reveal my partner leaving us with an easy win!!!

that's all for now

for the record, a townie can and will withdraw votes as circumstances change and people become more/less scummy.

I'm confused by what you just said, if Chelseafan is innocent, how does that confirm ANYONE in any way? easy win?!? what?!

Ok, Knight, you are either
1) genius in disguise under the illusion of noobieness if you are scum or 2) an extremely bad and mislead townie.

If everyone claims right now, I'm sure we will have a great chance of catching scum on D1. Just imagine...if Adel and SpyreX were lovers, lol, that makes things alot easier.

[Gimbo]

So basically now SSF cannot withdraw his vote from me without being mafa, or as you so nicely put it worthless.Ok.

So put a majority on me, because..we want to see if Flea is mafia. Ok

oh good lord..Chelseafan, I share your pain

[Gimbo]

So Far We Have:

KNIGHT42 / forbiddanlight
somestrangeflea / Gimbo
Chelseafan / chenhsi

I say that at minimum, there are 2 scums below:

Nameless
Firestarter
SpyreX
Harvey Pew
MafiaSSK
Adel

I suspect Adel and SpyreX:

SpyreX because of his overreaction to my posts which is odd given his normally mellow temper in all the other games I'm in with him.

Adel, like I've said before, in another game, with a fellow player claiming scum in their 2nd post, and you being a scum in that game, you immediately voted the said player in a seemingly angry way after their 'claim'.

Now my question is this, how is this reaction any different from you reaction to my scum-claim?

So far, you've ignored all the questions that I've asked you.

1) You never clearly said how exactly is claiming on D1 bad.
2) I asked you a hypothetical* question on your take on the game if you were scum and you ignored it saying you didn't want to 'tutor' me.
3) You ignored the comparison I made of this game is a previous game you were in when the MoS scum-claim gambit happened.

Please address these points and don't give me answers like 'bullshit', that is very helpful, thank you.

[Gimbo]

^ No, I never said you are scum and the fact that you messed up what I wrote so it seems like I am trying to accuse you is wrong.

I am saying that given the 4 scums in this game. I do not believe that all 4 are in the claimed lovers group. In fact, in a game where there is such a huge scum group and they have to pretend to be lovers to not get caught, I'd be surprised if the scums don't try to distance themselves from others in pair-like fashion. With that said, I suspect if there must be 2 scums among the 6 unclaimed.

I don't see how I am 'accusing' anyone of anything since 2/6 and 2/6 means its really equal probability.

2 scums among the 3 lover-pair and 2 scums among the 6 unclaimed...

Your overreaction to that post has moved you up my scumdar.

[Gimbo]

EBWOP: above post is for Harvey Pew, Adel - I'll try to dig it up, but you should know what I'm talking about. also you didn't address my other questions.

[Gimbo]

^ haha chenhsi nice.

Adel, scratch that, I read it long ago and screwed up the details in my head, apologize for that. But I still don't see HOW exactly is it more difficult to catch scum if 12 is reduced down to 6.

[Gimbo]

KNIGHT42 / forbiddanlight
somestrangeflea / Gimbo
Chelseafan / chenhsi
Nameless / Firestarter

SpyreX
Harvey Pew
MafiaSSK
Adel

Adel: 1st, forget about the fact that I mentioned Newbie 540, I got my info. wrong and I apologize for even bringing it up, now let's move on.

regardless of any alignment questions, 8 players have already claimed, even if all 4 scums are among those who claimed, that means 4 town players also claimed.

Regardless of your personal beliefs, if at least 1/2 the town has claimed, how is it not anti-town in a way for the other half to refuse to claim? Keep in mind that this is only true if all 4 scums are among those that claimed, if only 2 or none are among those that claimed, that means that the majority of town has claimed and it is anti-town of you not to do so.

Moving on, I still don't think you explained how exactly it is BAD for town to have a massclaim on D1. You did say this in one posts (162)

As I allready said, it will make it harder for me to catch scum.

... so massclaiming makes it harder for YOU to catch scum...how about the rest of town? You are clearly not a town player. You call yourself a superior player and that's okay, I have no problem with that, but you certainly can't use that as the answer to questions that I ask you (refer to Post 162)

Let me ask you, assuming that I am scum, what exactly do I gain as a scum? Since there are no power roles, for scums, what difference does it make who the D1 lynch is since no matter what happens, 2 townies die on D1?

In addition, you refuse to answer my hypothetical question for you because you clearly said that you didn't want to 'help' me in this game, now say you did answer this question, how does that help/harm me in any way? If I am scum, would I use the same strategies that you propose? If I am town, then why would I need the information?

On the other hand, it is clear why you wouldn't want to answer the question. If you are scum and you answer the question, then you might have to act in a completely different way that the answer you give to the question. By answering the question, if you are scum, it creates an additional obstacle for you during D1 and makes it easier for you to make a mistake. If you were town, I don't see why you would not want to answer this question as the method of play won't be relevant to you in this game.
---

Nameless: In your latest posts, you regurgitated what everyone has already said about Knight. In addition, you made it clear that you only claimed your partner because everyone else did and most likely because of the FoS from forbid.

In addition you said

Not that there's much point now that half the players have already claimed

... do you mean that if 1/2 the town didn't claim already, there would've been some sort of point in you not revealing your lover? How is that so? Enlighten me please.

[Gimbo]

So with all this, I'll say that my partner (who is also my lover )

is

in favour of a claim. But I will leave it up to them to make the claim

Ok I got this,

Harvey Pew / Mafia SSK

and the grand finale, the anti-claimers, Ladies and Gents, may I present

SpyreX / Adel ... my prophecy has come true...

Scumdar (1-5):

KNIGHT42 / forbiddanlight 2
somestrangeflea / Gimbo

not applicable

Chelseafan / chenhsi 1
Nameless / Firestarter 3
Harvey / MafiaSSK 2
SpyreX / Adel 4

[Gimbo]

I'm really confused as to what the hell Gimbo is trying to do, but it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Ok forbid, so be4, you were interested in finding out how what I said will play out, but now that the tide's turning on me, you vote for me.

Of course as long as I am alive, whatever I say has minimum credibility, right now, I have 2 couples on me, Adel/SpyreX and forbid/Knight.

After I die, it should be much clearer what's going on.

SpyreX: I don't understand your logic that if I am town, town's already lost. The onlu way this is true is if you are dead set that me and Flea will be killed today and since you and Adel are painted as the perfect townies, you will of course cast doubt on someone else tomorrow and save your own behinds.

Harvey: To me it seemed more like you were waiting for your fellow scum-buds and see if they claim, if they do, then you also claim. I recall that you never did claim until chenhsi basically fished your lover out of your post. It seems like there's exactly 4 player dead set on not claiming and for some reason, I don't think that's a coincidence.

[Gimbo]

^ that's a good answer!, thank you.

[Gimbo]

Kill Adel or SpyreX today, if they flip town, I give you all permission to lynch me tomorrow, how's that?

That's how sure I am. If some crazy shtick happens and we are BOTH town (unlikely), then I'll go away losing this game but learning a valuable lesson.

Knight you are finally making sense, thnx.

[Gimbo]

Ok, I'm at L-2, that's fine.

However, I want some other people to chip in on discussions, part of my initial claim also serves to start discussion, but about 3 lover pairs aren't really saying much, so I still want to hear them.

[Gimbo]

Yes it's L-1. I want to apologize to Flea for ruining this game for her. I'm so sorry

I'll see you guys on the other side, go town!

P.S. Firestarter: My vote for Adel was not OMGUS, I know I did offer explanation somewhere in those pages.

[Gimbo]

actually, DO NOT HAMMER. I want D1 to last longer, and for more people to chip in.

Ok I want to add something else here. First of all, I had no knowledge of Polygamist Games going into this one. I came up with the idea to start a massclaim after someone brought it up and I thought it over and in my mind, it was a fantastic idea!

It was only when Adel asked me for my opinion that I went back and looked at Open 79, and found out that in that game, the scums were the ones that started the mass-claim. However, this is a different game, so I don't think it's necessary to compare this game to another game.

I have no objection to my lynch actually, as long as it is somewhat helpful to town. If I get speed-lynched somehow before I get to post more last words, just know that I suspect Adel / SpyreX the most, details are in the post one page back.

[Gimbo]

EBWOP (215): Flea is a he! I'm sorry for saying 'her' !!!!!!

[Gimbo]

Nameless, context is the king. I said not to hammer me because once the lynch is put through, Day 1 ends. I want to get in as much Day 1 discussion as possible before the day ends. Also, you point to an 'overreaction' from me which confuses me. So are you saying that because a player wants the day to last longer, he/she must then be scum? Because I clearly pointed out that I only wanted a longer day and time for the lurkers to chip in.

L-1 is not a good place to be for both the player at L-1 and town in general. In this case, any erratic player can come in, quickly hammer and therefore end all discussions. Now what this does is create a WIFOM situation on Day 2 when the player who hammered gets heat from town for the hammer.

I did mention this awhile back, but one of the reasons I decided to claim scum is that I know in this setup, scum-hunting is basically 1 stone, 4 birds. Looking over the player's list, I don't see many experienced players, so I thought that among the 4 scums, there's bound to be 1 or 2 who'll jump at this (the fact that I claimed scum). Now I know (I really do) that this sounds terribly WIFOM and like I'm just trying to save my own skin, but you know what, take it with a grain of salt then, its up to you to form your own opinion.

Unfortunately, what I expected did not happen because I immediately get ridiculed for the other part of what I did which I thought is completely okay-the claim. I had thought that more discussion would be devoted to my scum-claim than to me starting the mass-claim, but I was wrong and we went terribly astray.

Knight: despite being a newbie, I really think his erratic wagon-jumping is a bit opportunistic. To add onto this, I'm still bothered by how initially forbid was interested in seeing how my claim will work out but later jumps on me when the tides turn and is now pushing for my lynch.

Forbid: what caused you to stop wanting to see how my claim will work out and what exactly persuaded you to think that I am scum besides LAL (which is really a bad reason in this case because lying to achieve a protown goal =/= anti-town)?

Firestarter: reading through your in-depth analysis I got the feeling that you were more siding with me in a way only to see that you voted for me. Let me ask you, who will you be suspicious of in general tomorrow if I flip town?

Adel/SpyreX: what will you guys do tomorrow if I flip town?

[Gimbo]

Knight,

vote Gimbo

. This reminds me far too much of another game I played elsewhere. They didn't claim scum, but they did try to use a similar WIFOM argument and coasted to the end on it, resulting in a scum win.

I'd rather lynch Gimbo now

. And as they say, LAL. If he's town, he's lying, if he's scum, we need to lynch him anyway.

forbid: I really don't like this post. Are you saying that IF I do make it to D2, then you will also be targeting me but you rather see me dead today? Because the only reason you gave for your vote is LAL, which I've already explained is pretty useless.

Adel: Keeping in mind that its darn well possible you and SpyreX are scum, I think Knight/forbid is really bugging me in terms of their play. Since Knight has previously voted for SpyreX, if I do flip town, I think this pair will be gunning for you and SpyreX.

I want to hear more from Chelseafan/chenhsi and the HarverPew lover pair.

[Gimbo]

^ of course I know, but if I tell you right now "I AM TOWN, I AM TOWN, I AM TOWN!", would you believe me?? ....Exactly

[Gimbo]

Zeek: you mentioned that in mini 353 (?) , a scum tried to pull the 'lynch so-and-so' and if i'm wrong, kill me tomorrow' thing, well I just want to say that every game is different and you can't really base your opinions of this one on a previous one given the different circumstances.

With that said, I do agree that it's a somewhat faulty and risky statement but you have to take in the context; at that point in the game, i was so sure that Adel/SpyreX were scum, the statement was said to get people to pay more attention to my case on them.

With that said, I just want to note here that Knight/forbid aren't on Adel's suspicion list and Adel's vote for Knight seems like a bussing vote. Given the fact that forbid has climbed my scumdar as explained in one of the post back, I am getting suspicious here....

[Gimbo]

First, that analysis is so damn biased I'm not even going to account for it until I have more time to point out every fallacy in it. Secondly

With that said, I just want to note here that Knight/forbid aren't on Adel's suspicion list and Adel's vote for Knight seems like a bussing vote. Given the fact that forbid has climbed my scumdar as explained in one of the post back, I am getting suspicious here....

Um...a bussing vote for knight...waaaait a second here. One mafia dies, all of them die. There's no point in bussing in this game, obviously. I REALLY think you are trying to push a mislynch here...but that kinda makes no sense, because if you die and are scum, there's no D2, and if you die and are town, why push a mislynch? I really don't know what's going through your head.

Well, the tide against me is so strong that throwing a bussing vote Knight's way for future uses isn't such a bad idea.

Forbid - you are talking like everyone knows you are town when it is obviously not true. I sense anger,

FoS:forbiddanlight

for what it's worth

[Gimbo]

forbid, my gut doesn't like you very much and i'm gonna try to get a case on you, wait for it.

[Gimbo]

Forbiddanlight (post #s are her personal posts only)

#6 - agrees with Gimbo that mass-claiming is a good idea.

# 7 - 'completely' disagrees with Gimbo's plan. Claims Knight as lover saying that she'll 'catch hell from him' when I clearly recall Knight saying that HE is the one waiting for his partner to claim/not claim....These 2 don't seem sure that they are a couple.

#10 - Gimbo should get lynched regardless of alignment per LAL

#11 - says that she thought my plan was a good idea in post#6 because 'she was tired'

#12 - doesn't want to be the 'odd one out' on my wagon, thus she wants Knight to vote with her.

#14 - doesn't think that lovers should always agree, yet forces Knight to vote like her

#17 - again she doesn't like to be the odd one out because if I flip town, she'll get 'scrutinized' by town

#20 - believes that its unthinkable for scums to bus each other (in regard to my comment that Adel might be bussing Knight with that vote since she doesn't make a case on Knight but still votes Knight)

#21 - Unvotes Gimbo because everyone else is doing so...so you're going with the flow?

Thoughts: A recap of forbid reeks of scumminess. In addition, she doesn't like to be the odd one out, or the one being looked at and likes to go with the flow for some reason. During this game, she voted and unvoted me many times but as soon as the tides ebb and rise, she changes her vote to match the majority.

Forbid: please post your thoughts on my recap/thought of you in this game. No wifom/omgus/jokes/smileys necessary. Thanks.

Adel/SpyreX: what are your thoughts of Knight/forbid ?

[Gimbo]

why should I worry about someone's gut when they have a case of the scums?

I do not like this post ... at all

[Gimbo]

forbid: your 'defensive response' was all talk and no reasoning. Especially your response to #12 and #17, also humour doesn't work here to deflect attention away from your scumminess.

[Gimbo]

forbid please give your case on me besides my claim, thnx.

[Gimbo]

Final note: I dislike Forbid's posts 283 and 284. They don't add anything, and don't seem to have much point other than protesting how sorry she is and how much harder she'll try and how she really is town, honest.

ditto and

[Gimbo]

Ok.

1) What is the case on Chelseafan? I'm confused.

2) How is my alignment directly linked to Chelsea's?

3) Adel/SpyreX, what's your thoughts on forbiddanlight/Knight?

4) If we hadn't claimed lovers on D1, I'll be dead for sure on D2 (if its a mislynch on D1), Reason for this is that I'll be personally gunning for SSF because she modkilled me in another game and I'm a bitter asshole so if we claimed D2, it wouldn't any sense to you all, and I would've been (mislynched) so fast.

[Gimbo]

SpyreX, what's your take on forbiddanlight and Knight?

P.S. Adel: please elaborate on what you mean by forbid and Knight are less scummy that Harvey. How so?

Thnx.

[Gimbo]

bah go town!

[Gimbo]

^ shut up, scum!