Mini 611 - Troy, Meet Helen (Game Over)

[Mizzy]

Vote Count:

Hadhfang 2 (ShadowGirl, Walnut)
charter 3 (Lord Gurgi, Netlava, Macavenger)
Lord Gurgi 1 (farside22)
Walnut 1 (Hadhfang)
farside22 1 (Battousai)
Blackberry 1 (charter)

Not Voting:

Blackberry, CF Riot, charter

12 alive = 7 to lynch!

[Blackberry]

I've just skimmed the recent posts. Still haven't actually read the beginning.

A: I think it's Tinsley + Had

B: I don't buy Had's claim at all. It's exactly what scum would claim. I don't know about my read of Tinsley + Had, I could be completely wrong, as I haven't actually read this game yet, lol.

C: I'm surprised I haven't gotten more votes on me. I was expecting me to claim that I have a kickass role to give me votes and only one person (charter) has voted me. The question is: is charter's behavior PRO-TOWN or ANTI-TOWN for voting someone that claims to have a kickass role. I don't know yet.

D: Netlava -- why do you think you have a guess at my role? I'm going to go back real quick and see if all the roles were revealed last game.

[Blackberry]

Mizzy -- can I ask that we know the set-up of last game? I think it is only fair that we all have the same exact information to speculate on. If speculating were to be done. Because if we do not have the same information it will give others particular advantages over the game knowing what role was in the last set-up (as I under the assumption you changed it up a bit). I think it would only be fair though for all of us to have the same information as to what the roles were for the previous set-up.

[Walnut]

C: I'm surprised I haven't gotten more votes on me. I was expecting me to claim that I have a kickass role to give me votes and only one person (charter) has voted me. The question is: is charter's behavior PRO-TOWN or ANTI-TOWN for voting someone that claims to have a kickass role. I don't know yet.

I took more note of you saying that you were feeling lazy and considering being replaced. If that is the case, it is better for you to be replaced than the town to be forced to lynch you. Your comment about your role reminded me painfully of Acidmix.

@Netlava: I guess a clearer way to have phrased it would have been to say "Taken individually, no single one of Had's comments strikes me as necessarily scummy, but taken as a whole they make me suspicious". That said,

unvote Hadhfang

. While I am not sold on his claim, we can work with it.

@Battousai, I see what you are saying about who called you out for lurking, but I don't agree with the conclusion. Yes, if Had looks likely to be lynched early on Day 1 his scum partners could try to distract attention to lurkers to get the heat off him. Equally well townies could say "Hey, let's not lynch this guy yet until we hear a bit more from some of those who have not said much". For me, they are both valid responses, so it is kind of WIFOM.

[Mizzy]

Mizzy -- can I ask that we know the set-up of last game? I think it is only fair that we all have the same exact information to speculate on. If speculating were to be done. Because if we do not have the same information it will give others particular advantages over the game knowing what role was in the last set-up (as I under the assumption you changed it up a bit). I think it would only be fair though for all of us to have the same information as to what the roles were for the previous set-up.

The two set-ups are different and you should be playing this game as a completely separate game, without taking the other one into consideration.

[Mizzy]

Apparently, I did not make myself clear enough.

No, I will not reveal the full set-up of the other game. No, I will not confirm or deny the existence or non-existence of roles in that game or in this one. No, the set-ups are not the same. No, that game has absolutely no impact on this game.

Why am I not revealing roles? Because a) it is a set-up concept I may call on again later, and b) because you do not need to know.

This game is a new game; please play it that way.

[Tinsley]

I think it's Tinsley + Had

Care to elaborate on this?

I don't buy Had's claim at all. It's exactly what scum would claim. I don't know about my read of Tinsley + Had, I could be completely wrong, as I haven't actually read this game yet, lol.

The fact that you already have two targets in mind before reading the game seems scummy.

[charter]

I don't buy Had's claim at all. It's exactly what scum would claim. I don't know about my read of Tinsley + Had, I could be completely wrong, as I haven't actually read this game yet, lol.

The fact that you already have two targets in mind before reading the game seems scummy.

QFT

However, cop claim on day one is a very easy claim for scum to make. I'm not saying Had's claim is false, but there's virtually no proof he actually is or isn't the cop, but no one wants to lynch their cop.

[Netlava]

I think had is scum, judging by the way he claimed. Maybe we should lynch him today anyway. Besides, the worst case scenario is losing an unknown sanity cop, which isn't

that

bad, is it? I'm sure my excellent scum hunting abilities will make up for it.

@ Had: Who do you find suspicious?

[Tinsley]

Noob Question: When the cop is lynched/NK'd will his/her sanity status be revealed?

[Netlava]

Sometimes, but frequently not, according to the wiki.

[Hadhfang]

@ Net

At the moment I think Charter is scummy, since he seems to be directing a lot of hs effort to get peopel to vote me, Admittedly that in itself ould just be very agressive play, but then he says my claim was

Convenient claim to make on D1 when you're at L-3....

Yet then he decides to run with it and unvote me, but still wants me lynched the next day, even though he claims he isn' pushing for a lynch that eagerly.

Don't lynch him today and if he lives through the night lynch him tomorrow. Of course the mafia could always not NK him, but I see that as much more unlikely than him actually being mafia (if he lives). Saying this, there's no point in lynching him today, as there are probably two others, so I'll go ahead and

unvote had

With regards to the whole SK thing, when I wrote the posts in my mind it seeemed like Charter's comment on the SK was the one that promted discussion about Sk's and setups, which wasn't helpful. It seems that I was mistaken in that, I was reading macavenger's post after Charters, which quoted Charter, and I somehow put together that Charter prompted discussion about the SK. I apologise profoundly for that severe misunderstanding.

[Walnut]

@Battousai, I see what you are saying about who called you out for lurking, but I don't agree with the conclusion. Yes, if Had looks likely to be lynched early on Day 1 his scum partners could try to distract attention to lurkers to get the heat off him. Equally well townies could say "Hey, let's not lynch this guy yet until we hear a bit more from some of those who have not said much". For me, they are both valid responses, so it is kind of WIFOM.

Actually, if you are looking at a clearer example of distraction with no logical townie explanation for it, try:

I might have to be replaced, as I am getting lazy in not only this, but all my games. I will stay in this game however only because I have a super-kick-ass role. I probably shouldn't mention that but I feel like bragging. I wonder what discussion this will bring up by me claiming I have a super-kick-ass role... lol.

Everything he says here is provocative, and I can't see how any of it is positive for the town, although some people seem to like the hint about the role. As my number 1 suspect is off today's menu, I would be ok with voting Blackberry if he doesn't get replaced first.

[ShadowGirl]

I apologize for not posting - my phone and internet went out for some inexplicable reason and it took a few days before a repairmen came to fix it.

A reread shall be coming within the new few days.

[CF Riot]

Ok this is ridiculous. Why on earth would we lynch Black Berry? I realize that was definitely not a wise thing to do and it kind of screws us over a bit if he's telling the truth since he's attracting attention to himself. But are we not waiting on Had because he's claimed? Why then would you make your second vote someone else who's claimed? The way BB played in the first game made him seem like a strong, active addition to the town. Why on earth he would do something like his half claim is beyond me, but why would we get rid of him on D1 before he gets a chance to use it? I guess it's possible his kick-ass role could be a kick-ass scum role, but I refuse to believe he would come straight out and admit it if it was. His post may not be positive for the town, but I think his lynch would be worse.

Walnut what positives do you suggest we could gain if we do lynch BB? Negatives we could avoid?

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm against a BB lynch today, because if he's town he's just confusing scum, if he's scum, then he's not confusing anyone. That said, we have people that are being detrimental to the town. I still support a charter lynch, because of previously stated reasons.

[Macavenger]

My only problem with this is if Had claims a result tomorrow what do we compare it against? If it's all going to be WIFOM city, how do we deal with it?

We'll have to evaluate the result claim on its merits, as well as the rest of had's play, tomorrow. No other sensible way to do it really, and no reason to worry about that today.

B: I don't buy Had's claim at all. It's exactly what scum would claim. I don't know about my read of Tinsley + Had, I could be completely wrong, as I haven't actually read this game yet, lol.

C: I'm surprised I haven't gotten more votes on me. I was expecting me to claim that I have a kickass role to give me votes and only one person (charter) has voted me. The question is: is charter's behavior PRO-TOWN or ANTI-TOWN for voting someone that claims to have a kickass role. I don't know yet.

So, if you haven't read, what makes you think it's Tinsley and had? If your soft claim was trying to get votes, why don't you evaluate charter's a bit, rather than just telling us you aren't sure about it?

I think had is scum, judging by the way he claimed. Maybe we should lynch him today anyway. Besides, the worst case scenario is losing an unknown sanity cop, which isn't that bad, is it?

How about we lynch you instead? Unknown sanity doesn't mean much. In a mini normal, there's still a really good chance he's sane. Cop sanities are rarely mod confirmed.

What makes you so sure he's scum? Why didn't you answer my question about why you suspected CF Riot? I'd still like that answered.

Everything he says here is provocative, and I can't see how any of it is positive for the town, although some people seem to like the hint about the role. As my number 1 suspect is off today's menu, I would be ok with voting Blackberry if he doesn't get replaced first.

Number one suspect being hadhfang, I presume? Why are two claimed (semi-claimed, in one case) power roles your top two suspects? You haven't really said much of anything about either of them, or anyone else, just a dose of WIFOM about the claims. Contribute some useful analysis, please.

[Mizzy]

Noob Question: When the cop is lynched/NK'd will his/her sanity status be revealed?

Nope, sure won't. Sanity is only discovered here when I reveal the set-up when the game has concluded.

[Walnut]

Why on earth would we lynch Black Berry? I realize that was definitely not a wise thing to do and it kind of screws us over a bit if he's telling the truth since he's attracting attention to himself. But are we not waiting on Had because he's claimed? Why then would you make your second vote someone else who's claimed?

Hadfhang claimed when he was at L-3 (wlthough he possibly thought he was at L-2). He also made a specific claim that (without wanting to go into too much detail) can be evaluated. Blackberry's claim was out of the blue (at L-7), and was sufficiently unspecific to be not even necessarily pro-town. Admittedly, if it is an overnight action it may be visible, but otherwise unless he clarifies his claim we gain nothing from it.

I'm against a BB lynch today, because if he's town he's just confusing scum, if he's scum, then he's not confusing anyone. That said, we have people that are being detrimental to the town. I still support a charter lynch, because of previously stated reasons.

Huh? If he is town, he can equally well confuse town players. What makes you think that town will not be confused by what he said? Did you not see his sudden burst of drama as detrimental to the town?

Why are two claimed (semi-claimed, in one case) power roles your top two suspects?

Had was my top suspect for reasons stated before. As I noted too, I agree that he should not be lynched today. In my response to CFRiot (this post, above) I explained how I saw the two claims as significantly different to one another. I would add to that Blackberry's burst of action deliberately to draw votes when some pressure was building, the voting without reading, and the more recent distraction of asking the mod about roles from the last game. Why? Because Netlava says that he has a guess about the role, and Blackberry doesn't seem to like that. I guess the "I am only playing because I get to be special- No! You can't know what it is! It iisn't fair!" thing rubs me the wrong way.

[Netlava]

@ Mac: I'm not sure whether had is scum. Currently, I think that he is being too complacent for someone who has just claimed, but I'll probably have to wait and see. You seem to be quite eager to believe his role claim.

Ok this is ridiculous. Why on earth would we lynch Black Berry?

Seems overly dramatic. I don't agree with a BB lynch either, but your post makes it seem as if BB is unlynchable.

@ Walnut: How guilty do you think BB is?

[Walnut]

Certainly not convinced of it. On the infamous 1-10 scale about a 6, but it is a bit of an either/or situation. I am kind of hoping that the response to his play so far might lead him to something more useful, in which case my suspicions would likely evaporate, but if he continues in this vein he is highly suspicious and will remain so.

Of course, it is still possble that he will decide that he is in fact feeling lazy and ask to be replaced.

[Macavenger]

You seem to be quite eager to believe his role claim.

No strong reason to doubt it, currently. I see no compelling reason to risk lynching a cop day 1; even if he were scum he still has buddies we can go after.

Could you answer my question yet? Why is/was CF Riot at the top of your suspicions list?

[Netlava]

CF Riot's post 71:

I'd also like to add that I'm eating the most delicious apple right now. So good.

I saw it as a doc breadcrumb, with apple being the trigger word, except for the fact that it makes no sense for a doc to breadcrumb whatsoever. From my (limited) experience as mafia, I have been tempted to drop fake breadcrumbs, before realizing that doc breadcrumbs make no sense.

[Hadhfang]

A breadcrumb doesn't seem like a reason to put someone on the top of your suspicion list. On it maybe, but not at the top. Plus he could have just been actually eating an apple at that point and wanted to share.

That's my thoughts on that so far.

[CF Riot]

CF Riot's post 71: I saw it as a doc breadcrumb, with apple being the trigger word.

Hahaha. Okay I actually laughed when I read this. Not because it's a dumb guess to make or anything, I can sort of see you just being really observant and trying to take everything under the microscope. But no, I really was eating an apple IRL when I posted that. Sorry, I never guessed it could be confused as game related, I'll try not to post anymore irrelevant information during this game.

@ Netlava: Okay, I guess BB isn't unlynchable. But as the way he claimed is the only thing suspicious (IMO) about his play so far, and the claim itself lends reason to keep him alive, I think overall he should be someone to keep around, at least for today. How he uses this unknown role and his input for the rest of today and tomorrow could swings things for me. I don't think a soft claim should protect him from scummy play, but so far I don't see any reason to suspect him and any non-vanilla role has the potential to be a big advantage for the town.

This is my problem with you Walnut. Yes I agree his claim is not pro-town, but I don't think the other examples you give are scummy. He actually didn't vote without reading, he hasn't voted at all. I don't see any problem with proposing 2 suspects at once in his post either. I don't particularly like the fact that he hasn't done a full read, but he said his guess was based on recent posts, so his opinions aren't baseless. You say he's only a 6 on your scumdar, but that is high enough to be in lynch territory?

FoS: Walnut