Mini 611 - Troy, Meet Helen (Game Over)

[Battousai]

/confirm post

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^Not if he's talking about GENERAL 12 player mafia games. What he wrote wasn't trying to distract the town or hinting at his own alignment...

Vote: Farside

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It's my first real post in the game so I made it into into a random with a bit of information.

I don't see what LG wrote is setup guessing, at least any more so than the 3 or so other people who said there are 3 scum in the game.

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Ok, let's agree to disagree here. I don't think he was saying there was a sk in this game, only the fact that there's a chance of a sk in mini normals.

Now why is it bad to speculate about a sk early in the game, what makes it scummy?

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Tinsley in post 61-

Battousai - Quickly votes farside after she votes Lord Gurgi, but says it was a random vote with a bit of information. Was it because you disagreed with her? Was she too quick to change her vote? Do you think she's scum, or was it a truly random vote?

Like I said, it was mostly random, but I used INFORMATION she posted to pick her to random vote. I disagreed with her, that's the information. I don't think what LG did was all that scummy. And no, I don't think she's actually lynch worthy right now.

Had: In concerns with Had, I think we should lynch somoene else and see what happens. Come D2 if Had is still alive he can tell us who he investigated and the result. Then we can decide on whether or not to lynch him or somoene else. That's my two cents on that.

FYI, I was lurking on purpose to see who would say something and when. My last post was on Sunday night. Here was the order of everyone who wanted me to talk:
Tinsley- he had a question that I hadn't answered, call me and blackberry (who posted the day before) out for not hearing much from them and unvotes had when Had got to L-2; CF Riot- wanted me to speak up and clear my name (for what? My first post where I random voted Farside using some information I gathered from the previous post?), SFOS's Had and tries to figure out how to prove a cop claim.

Now I don't know what information can be gathered, as this is the first time I've tried this, but I think Tinsley will look very scummy to me if Had turns up scum.

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You say Tinsley will look scummy if Had turns up scum, would the opposite hold true? Say if we lynch Tinsley today, would you then think Had is scum regardless of his claim tomorrow (if he lives through the night)?

Nope, tomorrow will be completely WIFOM if we let Had live, and scum will play it up no doubt.


Tinsley- I'll get back to you on that, because if I just post who I find scummy without saying why (I have other games right now, so a reread will have to wait a bit) I'll get asked a bunch of questions and it might distract the town moreso.

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CF Riot's post 71:

I'd also like to add that I'm eating the most delicious apple right now. So good.

I saw it as a doc breadcrumb, with apple being the trigger word, except for the fact that it makes no sense for a doc to breadcrumb whatsoever. From my (limited) experience as mafia, I have been tempted to drop fake breadcrumbs, before realizing that doc breadcrumbs make no sense.

What if he really was a doc and it was a real breadcrumb? Then if the scum wasn't observant you just outed a town power role. What do you think should happen if CF is found dead tomorrow as the doc?

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That was a question to Netlava, not everyone else.

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WTH Netlava? LG was actually defending YOU more than CF Riot in that last post. Did you even read those two posts or just one of them.

CF: I agree that Netlava has been singling you out the entire game, but I don't find that lynch worthy yet as tunnel vision can be attributed just as well to a townie as well as scum. Don't you think that is possible or since he's narrowed in on you, you feel he has to be scum?

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Camn: While lurking is anti town =/= scum. It's a new strategy that I've seen done that relies on the fact that scum try to shift blame everywhere (typically picking an inactive townie) and making them seem scummy, and townies usually pick up on inactives nearer deadline when they realize that they don't have much to go on when rereading. Now, as I said this is a new strategy, and it didn't really work that well in this game.

Camn & Walnut: I just wanted to see how he would respond to the fact that he, hypothetically, outted a town power role.

Walnut: I completely forgot about that, got busy with other games near deadline.

Netlava: Has basically tunnel vision of CF Riot. Outed the doc (he thought it was the doc at the time). Goes after LG for somewhat defending Netlava (gave an excuse for Netlava's actions), and completely ignores the post by CF Riot, not even touching the discrepencies and contradictions in the post.

BB: Doesn't give this game much effort (reasonable as asked to be replaced), claims a great role out of the blue, and tells people who he feels is scummy, but doesn't give much of a reason why.

Tinsley: This is more gut than anything. He defends CF Riot, saying he is most likely town because he wrote a big post. Scum writes big posts too.

Those three are the main people who

IGMEOY

UNVOTE

, forgot to do that earlier.

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The game was Akatsuki Mafia in Coney Island. Scum tried this tactic, but I thought I would try it myself to see if it has any value.

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NetLava, I don's see what LG did was an attack on you in a disguise. The only bad thing from it is that you are using the other game to dictate this game. Guess what? That doesn't make you scummy, it's only bad play. But in your last post you admit you thought/ think it was an attack. So according to you, you get attack so the person gets bumped up onto your scum list, right?

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Vote: Netlava

I've had my eye on you for awhile now. But post 222 is just beyond me. I believe EVERYONE thought, that you thought LG was scum. So Mac must be scum because he stated it outright?

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Oops, 232.

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- Mac says accusation of LG was OMGUS and votes me for it
- Mac says I think LG is scum
Anyone notice the inconsistency here?

No. You voted for LG, which means you are saying he is scum, but Mac thinks your REASONING is OMGUS.

I find it interesting you are trying to discredit Mac any way you can. First in 232 where you basically say "Mac is scum because he knows I'm town for thinking I think LG is scum." Then when you get a vote and some heat from other players for that comment, you go back and try and find something else to call him out on without addressing the heat you got from post 232.

Then you suspect Walnut, from what I can tell post 233 as that is the only post walnut has made since the last time you posted. I would like to know what Walnut did that was scummy, because that post was just an "attack" on your post 232 and then somewhat agreeing with you on LG's post. Agreeing with you shouldn't be scummy, so it must be the attack on you and if that's the case, I see it as OMGUS.

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Netlava: "Mac later explains that he saw that I saw LG's post as an attack, but LG's post itself is not an attack. I don't buy it! In my initial descriptions of LG's post, I don't actually describe it as an attack, but mostly point out why the redudancy makes it superficial. Mac must be psychic or something."

??? If you thought it was an attack, don't you think it is likely someone else could read it the same way as you? Also, you say that him asking you to defend yourself is redundant. It's NOT redundant, how could any of us know for sure that what you will post next. As you later point out, LG didn't explain himself so therefore it is possible that you would skip over it. :rolls: Yes I can do that too, but that is an adequate defense. It's just something you do that extremely irrates me.

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Charter: from Walnut's defense of to you, I think he dispelled most of the points you had against him, yet you still find him scummiest (by not unvoting) What are the major points you have against him now?

Tinsley: Concerning LG, the only reason I saw for him to bring up the SK was at the beginning when people were speculating on the amount of scum. He said, from memory, either 3 scum or 2 scum and a SK. Then people started questioning him and made him bring it up more. Shadowgirl is the 3rd most protown player on your list (3rd from bottom), do you feel lack of beneficial posts gives her more protown credability than someone who has posted a lot, but made a few posts that could be interpreted scummy?

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Netlava: What has Mac done that has taken him off your top 3 list? What's your new list?

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Wouldn't it make more sense to just bump walnut up to 2, and then get a replacement number 3 (my guess would be Riot or myself from some of your posts).

Also, I don't see what mac did could be seen as a bold move to make as scum. He says certain people seem town (could be trying to get their support) and then spread "attacks" out to a few players. That is not bold in my books. Does anyone else think that what Mac did in post 278-280 is a too bold to be scum move? Do agree with Netlava's assessment Mac (from a third party perspective of course)?

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I don't get you Mac. You say you see a connection between me and Riot right? You also say you see Netlava as scummy (you at one time at least, had a vote on him). Now there is a possibility that ALL 3 of us is scum, but wouldn't it be stupid for me and Riot to try and get Netlava lynched, as to me it's not worth the risk to lose a scum partner day 1. So what I conclude from this is that the feeling of a pairing that you see between me and Riot is STRONGER than the feeling of scumminess coming from Netlava, no?

Also, I'm a little surprised that people think me and Riot could be paired, as I don't see it. I would see a much stronger pair between me and LG instead (I defended his SK allegations early, and LG sees some of my moves concerning Netlava as protown.

Netlava: Could you give me the post where Riot says that we shouldn't lynch BB and the post where he includes a possible bb/walnut scumpair?

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Netlava: Ok, I went back and looked at those posts and I see what you are saying. Riot says it is bad to LYNCH BB as IF he has a protown role he should be able to use it. Then later says what BB did was scummy (softclaim). I see it as a very minor issue. I really don't see Riot as contradicting himself too much there as lynching someone and thinking they are scummy are related, but in this circumstance I see them as different.

Farside: If your asking me to answer this question, "Battousai - Quickly votes farside after she votes Lord Gurgi, but says it was a random vote with a bit of information. Was it because you disagreed with her? Was she too quick to change her vote? Do you think she's scum, or was it a truly random vote?"

Then my answer would be because it was a random vote, and the reason I voted Farside over anyone else was because I disagreed with her vote of LG. At the time I really didn't think she was scum.

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Farside, you made me have to go back to the Very beginning didn't you

I'm just going to throw it out there that in a 12 player game, there are usually either 3 scum or 3 scum and 1 SK, depending on how powerful the town is.

As a result I am going to

Unvote: ShadowGirl, Vote: Charter

for not only triple posting, but flipping between ideas between posts, also we can't be sure how many anti-town we've got, so it's probably best to play it conservative and assume we have 4.

Also:

Mod: Can you clarify about a rule:

6. Deadlines may be implemented if I feel that discussion is lagging. At deadline, the person with the most votes will be lynched. In the case of a tie, the person who was voted for first is lynched.

Does this make the determining vote the last vote placed against a person, or the first vote placed against them?

This seems like a big leap voting someone for not being sure about anti-town. Yes typically 3 scum is the norm. If charter is talking to just bring things up it is better then laying low.

unvote:
vote: LG

Bringing up the idea there could be a SK first is bad, mmky

In this game, I didn't see him as actually saying there is a SK, but rather he talked about the COMMON setup in a 12 player game. He didn't say which was more likely or which one he felt was the case. Therefore I disagreed with you and decided to make you my random vote.

Mac: Ok, I understand what you are saying right now with why you do not want to vote Netlava.

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Actually Charter, LG, I was defending my first vote not LG. I disagreed with Farside, so I voted her. Then I somewhat answered her question on talking about a SK is not scummy. I told her that I found LG's post not to be scummy.

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You're right about the 137 though, don't know where I got defend from. More like fruitlessly attacks. I assumed no one listened to him, since there were very few posts that talked about BB or what he said. Also noted, how you group Tinsley in there with responding to BB but no one else.

I have explained my stance on BB previously. He needed to ask to be replaced or modify his style greatly, or he was scum. I am not sure how I am responsible for whether other people post about him or not- if I attack him and no one else does it is not deliberately fruitless and therefore scummy, as you seem to be saying here.

You've decided from two posts that BB is scum? Pretty bold statement there. Personally, I think his actions were brilliant (assuming he was town) because his claim would have easily drew mafia attention.

Wait, what? Two things wrong with your statement here Charter.

1) You seem to ignore the fact Walnut stated "[BB] needed to ask to be replaced or modify his style greatly..." It seems you are trying to make Walnut look scummy instead of finding scummy things Walnut has done.

2) The play was not brilliant. What if an investigative role targeted BB first. Hell, that's what I would have done if I had an investigative role. Then we would be done both the cop, and BB (the mafia got to him after the cop). Your using hindsight with BB/camn's UNCONFIRMED role.

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"Way to go on defending Walnut..." Thank you

What if I said Had is scum or he is the cop? I still said Had is scum!

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Shadow Girl: That was a while ago, and that I had my eye on them.

What I found suspicious of BB at the time was that he basically softclaims and then seemed to randomly pick two people to be most likely scum. Tinsley, well I found that he was willing to write of Riot as protown because he wrote a big post just wrong. That was why I only had a IGMEOY on him along with the others at the time.

I brought up that I don't see how me and Riot are likely scum partners. I find it a little wierd that someone would think that when a stronger case of defensiveness was between myself and LG.

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Tinsley- I don't see how a few hours difference in hammering is rushing it. Why do you not think what Mac said off, whereas Walnut's is (Mac said will hammer, Walnut made up mind about who is going to be hammered)?

Honestly, I think Netlava is going to be lynched D1.

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Walnut = LG. I was just looking at the walnut quote you had. Ok, just wanted to get your thoughts on it.

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I think that if Camn didn't claimed early, the game would have been tilited in favor of the town.Therefore to balance the usurper (role cop) the game would have been even more unbalanced.

All I had to say, besides my D1 where I play my worst at, as I read along I nailed all the other scum. I narrowed the 3 scum down to Mac, Charter, Tinsley, Riot, and SG in that order. Oh, and for the record, D1 I really wasn't trying to defend LG that much, I just thought the points about him and the sk were very wrong.

I think the reason they didn't kill fark so soon was to get him lynched. Probably try and get the town to guess there was no doctor and lynch him, then kill you that night.

Overall this was a good game

to be in

read.