Mini 612 Akatsuki: The End

[SleepyPanda]

Sleepy, don't you think that Claus would have waited for his scumbuddies to jump on his bandwagon and get Ashmite assassinated if he was scum? Also, your admittedly WIFOM point about Ashmite also applies to Claus. What did Claus gain by sticking his own neck out to kill Ashmite right away?

Assuming Claus is scum, by killing right away, it doesn't allow people to actually place votes. We aren't able to see how people vote. Why would Claus want his scumbuddies to jump on when he can keep them hidden by killing alone?

Claus is using the defense that Ashmite strayed from the plan by assassinating on his own, so his death is warranted. Claus is doing the exact same thing as well though. He decided, by himself, to take out Ashmite.

[Mastermind of Sin]

But if the majority had agreed to kill Ashmite, you wouldn't have known if his scumbuddies were on the wagon or not...

[SleepyPanda]

Obviously, but you were the one that mentioned about his scumbuddies jumping on the bandwagon. I was merely pointing out a counter argument. Regardless, it would still provide us with more information in the form of how people voted. Any information is better than none.

[Battousai]

Sorry L, must of missed that post:

So are the Akatsuki the scum or the town group?

The Akatsuki is a reunion of 12 top-level criminal ninjas who have left their village to help each other achieve their individual and collective goals. Unfortunately, there is dissension in their ranks; this game will represent the power struggle between the leadership of akatsuki, the various members, and the rebel faction.

You see, I've seen the shows and the Akatsuki are the "evil" faction of the Ninja World. So when I asked that question it was just out of curiousty of, are we taking out the Akatsuki or are we all Akatsuki (answer obv).

Now the answer the mod gave us, told us there was a split, but didn't tell us how many of us split, did they splitters form more than one group or anything like that. I was thinking, for a time, that it was possible for at least 2 scum groups and 1 town because the mod said "the power struggle between the leadership of

akatsuki

,

the various members

, and the

rebel faction

. I was thinking it might be possible that the leadership could have turned on the members (that's 1 scum group) the rebels have seen this and broke away (that's 2) and the majority town group is just gullible and are supporting the leadership who are secretly plotting against them.

Just so you know, from the flavor of later text in the game, I do think there are just two groups- the loyalists and the rebel faction.

Vote: Battousai

That slip is going to cost you.

???????? That slip is going to cost you is not a reason to lynch someone. You have to at least say what I supposedly slipped up on and why it's scummy so I can at least defend myself....

Claus: When I play town and scum, I try to mix up my playstyle. While metaing people is a good way to find how they play as scum and town, I've been trying to be alternating my scum playstyle into my town playstyle and vise versa, also changing how I play also.

MOS: WIFOM? You don't think Claus could be scum because he didn't wait and act townish by trying to the majority to go along with it? That might be exactly why he did it, because if he was scum he would know Ashmite wasn't. So a townie did the same thing and he knew he could do it to and have us all doubting whether scum would do it.

UNVOTE, VOTE MoS

Ass: MoS

Claus: "Except you are not distracting the town from anything - you are simply not giving ANY input into the game."

I thought the reason everyone seemed to think I was scummy was because I was "distracting the town." That made me go back and try to defend that I wasn't distracting the town, thus being worse (according to you) for not giving any imput. Also, I believe this is STILL the first meeting.

I didn't think Farside was lynch worthy yet, thus why I prefered the wait till meeting 2 to have extra information. MoS's vote to ass farside seemed opportunistic to me. He gave no reason for it and just coatailed on Shadowpanda's reasoning. Then the next post was him voting to ass DGB for no reason at all. Everyone else's vote/ass did not seem opportunistic at all.

[Megatron]

Megatron, my questions/comments for you were in the last post. The Ashmite WIFOM you mentioned only exists because now we know he is town. Before that, he was someone under growing pressure (me, L) who killed someone else he didn't even suspect

Well, like I already said, speculation on what Ash was up to is only going to lead us into WIFOM and it's not going to accomplish much except to distract us. He wasn't really on my suspect radar before that.

Speaking of distractions - Battousai, you sure seem to know an awful lot about the setup, or at least you seem to know more than I do. How is that?

Oh, and by the way, nice OMGUS vote.

Ass: Battousai

[Battousai]

My vote is not OMGUS.... Because he looked at me, I went back at his most recent posts and then went back further to when farside was assassinated and felt his posts were opportunistic.

Yes, I seem to know the most because I ask the most questions about the subject

Megatron: So are you going to pardon Claus for his actions then by ignoring his kill? That's what I got from your last post because the Ash action and the Claus action seemed pretty interlocked to me.

[L]

"L - voting both Farside and DGB during the Farside x DGB bandwagon. After farside flips town, turns around and adds: "As andersonw said, farside was still explaining herself. I wouldn't have felt as much suspicion"."

When I voted farside22, it was because of the weird alert-idea, I did not understand what the plan was, or how it helped in anyway. That was the most suspicious thing I noted and that was why I voted farside22. farside22 explained it better, and I would have unvoted, but farside22 was killed beforehand. Not that I expect this to be believed as it can't be confirmed.

I voted DrippingGoofball for not providing much content. DrippingGoofball had not said very much, when I said for her to talk more she said I was a hypocrite. Which is untrue because I've actually discussed things. Which is more then what I can say she did. She then votes me, claiming I was all up in arms. I said it was humorous she is voting me for such faulty reasons, hardly the definition of someone "all up in arms".

Claus did stop his nonsense, he was posting more vote counts than actual posts.

Honestly I don't think mafia would risk killing ashmite84 like that. As said before, "What did he gain by sticking his neck out like that?"

Claus, Megatron, and SleepyPanda are giving me the most town vibes.

Claus's vig against ashmite84 seems like he took a risk to stop more non-majority deaths. Which would be the argument against waiting for others to reply before someone gets the kill again/he might get it again.

[Mastermind of Sin]

This is directed at Claus. What I'm finding scummy is your decision to kill Ashmite immediately. You didn't bother waiting for other people to respond. We have already talked quite a lot about how we should use the vig kill carefully. I know someone had already mentioned this as WIFOM, but would a scum really out themselves by killing a town so brazenly even after our discussions about it? I think at this point, Ashmite became an extremely easy target.

The scum could've just as easily hopped onto his bandwagon.

If you had waited, we would still have more information than we do now.

The only lurker in your lurker list that stands out to me is SSK for not having said anything.

Obviously, but you were the one that mentioned about his scumbuddies jumping on the bandwagon. I was merely pointing out a counter argument. Regardless, it would still provide us with more information in the form of how people voted. Any information is better than none.

Wait,

I'm

the one who brought up scum jumping on the bandwagon? What are you trying to pull here? I'm the one providing counterarguments. I'm currently undecided on Claus, but someone has to play Devil's Advocate, because there were plenty of holes in your logic against him.

Battousai, you seem to have missed the fact that my so-called "defense" of Claus was merely a rebuttal to the poor attack made upon him by SleepyPanda. Perhaps you were too hasty in finding a reason to OMGUS vote me? Overdefensive much?

[Claus]

Hey,

MOS:

What slip? (172) I didn't understand.

Battousai:

That's what I got from your last post because the Ash action and the Claus action seemed pretty interlocked to me.

Of course are interlocked (I killed him because he killed DGB), but they are hardly the same.
-- Ashmite killed a pro-townish player out of nowhere, with a weak reason, who he never had mentioned before.
-- I killed a scummy lurker who would not commit to a position in the game,
who had just killed someone by himself, and whose lynch I had been pushing for a while.

Saying that the two kills are the same is extremely disingenuous.

Also, I believe this is STILL the first meeting.

I didn't think Farside was lynch worthy yet, thus why I prefered the wait till meeting 2 to have extra information.

Get something into your head - This IS already D3 - or D2 if you don't want to count my vigging of Ashmite as a day. Farside wagon grew fully and had different people attacking it, defending it and ignoring it.

MoS's vote to ass farside seemed opportunistic to me. (...) Everyone else's vote/ass did not seem opportunistic at all.

Really? I thought that

I

was "the scum" to you a little while ago. Now my vote/ass to farside is not oportunistic at all. It seems to me that you are shaping the reality around you to fit your suspicions.

Ass: Battousai

Sleepy panda

I think at this point, Ashmite became an extremely easy target. The scum could've just as easily hopped onto his bandwagon.

You have answered your own question.

Here is the "information" we would have gotten from a Ashmite wagon:
Player 1> OMG! He killed DGB! You bastard! Vote: Ashmite.
Scum 1> I thought we had decided to use our kills carefully? Vote: Ashmite
Lurker 1> That was the poorest reason I ever heard to kill anyone: Vote Ashmite
Scum 2> But wait, isn't this bandwagon going a bit too fast?
Player 1> Of course not, do you want to set a bad precedent?
Ashmite> Vote Count.
Scum 2> You're right. Vote: Ashmite.
Lurker 2> Of course I have been paying attention to the game! Ashmit is obvscum: Hammer!

Here is the thing Panda: voting people who do Anti-town things is a pro-town act. No one would be seriously questioned for voting Ashmite, and the WIFOM you suggested only exists because he has already been cardflipped.

On the other hand, watching who is attacking/defending my vig, how strongly, and for what reasons is giving out much more information than the easy Ash lynch would ever give. Do you disagree with this?

L

Hmm. I can see the "I wanted to unvote farside but she died before" thing as a 50/50 right now. But what bothers me is that you were ass:far and voting:DGB at the _same time_.

I mean, farside and DGB were attacking each other - didn't you think it strange to bet on both sides of a fight?

everyone:

As far as votes and assassination goes, should we count people
who vote and assasinate on the same person as two votes?
(See battousai's votes on MoS).

==================

Vote Count:

(votes in bold, assassinations in normal font)

Battousai : 1

+ 2 (

MOS

, Megatron, Claus)

MOS : 1

+ 1 (

Battousai

, Battousa)

Claus : 0

+ 2 (SleepyPanda, Andersonw)

L : 1

+ 0 (

Claus

)

Not Voting/assassinating:

L, GhostWriter, MafiaSSK,

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.[/quote]

[Battousai]

MoS: You still haven't told me how I slipped up....

Poor attack? I found SleepyPanda's thoughts of Claus to be right on the money. It's WIFOM of whether or not scum would vig kill someone with no support. But to me at least, it's more scummy than town when they vig kill someone for vig killing someone with no support. Also, I'm naturally overdefensive. If you attack me on asinine reasons then I will get defensive.

[Claus]

It's WIFOM of whether or not scum would vig kill someone with no support. But to me at least, it's more scummy than town when they vig kill someone for vig killing someone with no support.

...

So now you're saying that Ash's actions were possibly pro-town and I am scummy for killing him?

This makes no sense at all.

Also, I'm naturally overdefensive. If you attack me on asinine reasons then I will get defensive.

This is no excuse for OMGUS voting and refusing to comment on other players.

[MafiaSSK]

Hey, I'm posting this in all of my games.
I will be on Vacation with no access from the 20th to the 22nd.

[Claus]

Wait...

It's WIFOM of whether or not scum would vig kill someone with no support. But to me at least, it's more scummy than town when they vig kill someone for vig killing someone with no support.

You're right.

ATTACK: Sleeping Panda

Now that I have attacked someone without reason, I'm pro-town!

As for reasons, I have a report that tells me that Sleepy Panda was harbouring Weapons of Mass Destruction in his basement - in contravention of many United Ninjas directive.

(I guessed three times right in my three attempts to steal the kill - after this game, I'm going to vegas!)

[SleepyPanda]

So did Claus actually have the vig kill and used it against me or was he just being stupid?

1.e) If you wish to kill a player, this is the template you will post in bolded letters in the thread: ATTACK: GhostWriter
1.f) If you never received the killing ability, do not use the above. Even the mafia are not allowed to fake an attack.

[Claus]

Just tell us where those WMD's are and nothing will happen to you.

[SleepyPanda]

I ate them.

Modkill for breaking rules please.

[Claus]

Heh, That's a low punch. So you're trying to get rid of me any way you can, huh?

Having ABR modkill me would be a great way to kill a townie without dirtying your hands, no? That explains why you were using of WIFOM to get me lynched. I'm happy that I've finally managed to vig scum v(^_^)v.

[SleepyPanda]

It's not my fault for someone who didn't bother reading the rules. Even if I didn't mention it, I don't see why ABR wouldn't modkill you anyways since they're HIS rules.

Even if it is WIFOM, it's a possibility. You're using the "cardflip" defense to discount everything. Does Ashmite cardflipping make you more town? No. If you hadn't killed Ashmite, we would've had a week of more discussion. How is discussion going to hurt town?

You're also entirely destroying the whole voting/assassination system. You're counting everyone's vote/vig kill vote separately. That means each person has the power of two votes. The point of creating a vig kill vote system was to eliminate lynching vote, as it will not be used, ideally. When you killed farside, there was still 2 days left I believe. There was also only 5 actual people that did vote her (vig and lynch), according to your vote count. You sped up the game when there was no need.

[L]

Claus won't be mod-killed, he said he guessed who had the kill again. So he's officially attacking you with the kill.

So Claus, you had some info on SleepyPanda similar to a cop getting innocent/guilty?

I'm assuming so, or as SleepyPanda said, you are rather ruining the voting system with an attack on your own reasons.

I don't like that you came across as "I finally got scum." If you were so sure he was mafia, and weren't using the vote count. What gives? It seems back and forth about you using it.

[Claus]

It's not my fault for someone who didn't bother reading the rules. Even if I didn't mention it, I don't see why ABR wouldn't modkill you anyways since they're HIS rules.

Lol. You really want me dead, don't you? I can feel your anger:

"Why me? I was doing everything right! No one suspected I was scum! How could that guy I was almost getting the town to mislynch figured out my trickery?"

The way you grasp at the tiniest of hopes of getting ME killed instead of you shows me your true colors. We bagged scum this time! Hooray!

Now, really. Unless you have blocked me, or someone stole my kill, you're dead chump. I know the rules, and I was not lying when I attacked you. In fact, I have a great in-game reason for attacking you when I did.

If you hadn't killed Ashmite, we would've had a week of more discussion. How is discussion going to hurt town?

That's a strawman if I even seen one. There is discussion, and there is chin wagging.

We could for one week discuss how Ash was rash, and that wouldn't have helped the town, because everyone would agree! However, when we sit down to debate something REALLY divisive ("Was Claus right or wrong about killing Ash?") - THAT is where people show their true colours. Like you just did by asking the mod to modkill me.

[SleepyPanda]

To me, it seemed more like he was trying to bait a confession out of me. If he says he received a "report", and I know that I'm town, that would only make me push harder for his lynch. Claus, if you do happen to get modkilled and turn up town, clarify first whether or not you actually received a report, because I doubt you did.

Going by Claus' system of counting lynch and vig votes separately, assuming there are still 3 scum, they can place 6 votes collectively. That means they can continuously kill off people one by one if we're still using the "more than half of alive" to lynch system.

Only one vote per person please.

[SleepyPanda]

I didn't block you, nor did I steal your kill. So if you weren't lying and I'm the one that's going to be killed, that's the

second

time you're killing without majority backing.

[Claus]

So Claus, you had some info on SleepyPanda similar to a cop getting innocent/guilty?

Well, the cat is out of the bag know, so I might as well claim.

I'm Zetsu, the Akatsuki Spy - a neutral.

My win condition is that I have to eliminate 3 Akatsuki by my own hands (not lynching) before dying. The flavor is that I'm a loner and a cannibal - I'm using the confusion caused by the struggle between loyalists and rebels to fullfill my own agenda. If I can kill that number of ninjas, I'll improve my "meld with objects" skill, which mean that when I die, I just get away and leave the game.

So, I guess I won. You can vig/lynch me now if that will give you a sense of fulfillment,

Also, this is why I was pushing for the "vig, not lynch" policy - I wanted to be the executioner. Because if you think about it, Battousai is right, there is no real reason not to lynch - people can rearrange their blocks after every lynch, and I bet the town's power roles also get to go after lynchings.

Finally, I actually do think Sleepy is a rebel - while his "modkill him!" pleas confirm it to me, the way that he pushed after my death using wifom, and the way he tried to tie me and battousai together just smells of opportunism. While I have my own win condition, I think I owed it to the town to try and kill a scum with my last killing after having hit townies by mistake two times in a row. The "report" was just a joke - It's a game folks! .

Go Town/Rebels! *goes to grab some popcorn*:-D

[SleepyPanda]

I think I owed it to the town to try and kill a scum with my last killing after having hit townies by mistake two times in a row.

Well you apparently failed in that aspect then.

[Claus]

Man, you're dead already. Stop pretending.